Interesting Screenshot...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:37 am

This is as much of Narsis as I could get to display at one time in the editor

When I selected it all it said it had 2667 objects and 828300 faces, but I don't think I got it all. It was taking about 30 seconds to load each frame when I moved my camera...

[img]http://img20.exs.cx/img20/8431/narsis.jpg[/img]

Mirabell · Post by **Mirabell** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:39 am

Ooo, is there a download so that I can see this in person? Its so large!

I hope its not as chunky as Balmora...

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:59 am

The framerates are awful, it's got nearly 300000 faces in one cell, but you can get it off of Prometheus's website. The link is in his sig.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:53 am

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:17 am

Stumpy, what the heck does that have to do with Narsis?

As for Narsis running well, the fps optimizer's hide small objects feature seems to help a fair bit. It ran quite well on my computer with the optimizer on.

BUT

Narsis still needs most of its NPC's placed.

And once that happens...

All ur frameratez0rxz r b3l0ng 2 us!!!!

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:26 am

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:59 am

What I'm curious about is how you got 1.7 million int

attackdrone · Post by **attackdrone** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:01 am

One thing I have found as enjoyable as a combat alchemist is the non-combat merchant.

What you do is you run up to the NPCs and bribe them to 100 disposition.

Once they get there, they are no longer hostile.

Back in Morrowind 1.0 it was easy, because they wouldn't turn hostile fast enough to prevent you from walking up and talking to them, but now you have to go invisible and run up, talk to one NPC, bribe up to 100, go invisible... talk to the next...

Or you can charm or command them, but that is only temporary.

All shall fear Flaniel Vanigan... Merchant Extraordinaire. BUY!! SELL!!! BUY!!! SELL!!! BUY! SELL! (Now all your gold is mine - its been a real pleasure doing business with you sir).

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:11 am

Herm, or maybe the Nord theif... who doesn't know how to sneak, only barely knows how to open locks, likes axes and heavy armor... but still goes around stealing things, killing the guards, then spending more money than he got from stealing the stuff to clear his bounty

Thorndraco · Post by **Thorndraco** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:17 am

Aaron wrote:What I'm curious about is how you got 1.7 million int

He most likely did it using the taget based skill glitch.

Basically create a spell that adds a particular stat of your choice for only one second, having the amount set to max. Also in the same spell have a spell cast on target for one second, doesn't really matter what. Then keep casting it at the floor or face to face with a wall, as long as it doesn't fail it will permenently raise your stats each time you do it... it is quite permanent though, I'm not even sure you could reverse it in the console since it's magic based.

attackdrone · Post by **attackdrone** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 7:20 am

The intelligence of 1.7 million is quite easy.

Potions.
You make a fortify intelligence potion or 100. You drink them. You make 100 more and drink them. You then make 100 more... drink them... make more etc. Each time you drink one your intelligence goes up so that you can make better potions.

I have gotten my intelligence up to 100 billion before. Then I got my speed up to 100 billion. Then I took a step. Then my game crashed. Then my xbox made horrible grinding noises and started smelling strange.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 8:21 am

Narsis is beautiful

SlugZ · Post by **SlugZ** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:10 pm

It's even bigger than I could imagine...

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:42 pm

Narsis is beautiful, yes... but practical in terms of gameplay, no.

SlugZ · Post by **SlugZ** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:49 pm

I guess you're right.

It's way too compact.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:00 pm

That screen is forkin incredible

So how will the Narsis FPS problem be dealt with? There must be a hell of a lot of statics, litter, misplaced meshes and new high-poly objects that can be cut out.

Some collison statics (?) could be taken out for practicality's sake; maybe someone could re-mesh the high-poly stuff so it has less framerate impact. Obviously NPC placement will need to be conservative in Narsis exteriors and sound positioning made very sparse. Hmmm.. is there a thread that deals with the problems in Narsis? What is to be done? Has prom left without leaving a solution?

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:12 pm

Hmmm.. is there a thread that deals with the problems in Narsis?

Yeah. Narsis thread, Map 6 board. However, that thread has been locked for now, as it is on Map 6, and we are still working on Maps 2 and 3. So before we start pissing our pants over the headache-inducing city that is Narsis, I suggest we get to work on some of the other maps. Maybe if we started really getting work done, I mean really started churning out good work, Prom will come back and fix Narsis for us.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 5:42 pm

Lets not go about trying to impress Prom so he can come back and fix Narsis. Lets just mod like we always do. If he comes back.. great, he's a good modder. If he doesn't, because he has a problem with us, thats his decision. In the end we'll fix Narsis ourselves, or build a new one. We did it for ST. Personally i'd like him to start working on Narisis again when he's ready.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:25 pm

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:18 pm

Narsis is a part of my experience here that I would just like to blot out of my memory, since it is too painful. The city is beautiful, but far too slow compared to the rest of the game. My computer is no powerhouse, but I didn't think it was going to be so bad when I volunteered to take on Narsis from Prom and try to solve some of its fps issues. Unfortunately, I vastly underestimated this city's ability to bring CPU's to their knees, and I was not able to modify Narsis in the CS at the 1 frame per 7-8 seconds it was running at.

As for in-game, Prometheus didn't know, I think, that the fps indicator in the game does not show numbers below 5 FPS. So, since his indicator showed 5 and since this was no lower than anywhere else in Morrowind, he figured it was doing alright. In reality, Narsis makes Balmora look like a fightened puppy and will cause most mid-range computers to buckle and grind. Arguably, this may change by the time we finish Morrowind when there are better computers around. But for now, it remains something that I just don't like thinking about. For those of you that do not know, Narsis is no longer in my hands (can't mod at 0.125 fps) and is no longer in Prom's hands (since he has disappeared and apparently left for good) an is now in the Core's collective hands. Work will be done to try to streamline the city while maintaining as much of its original beauty as possible, but as far as I know it will not be completely redone.

Negrodomous · Post by **Negrodomous** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:24 pm

Narsis is beautiful, yes... but practical in terms of gameplay, no.

just lower the resolution. And yes, its the greatest thing ive ever seen, who made it?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:30 pm

Prometeus. *contanius druling over narsis*

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:42 pm

Negrodomous wrote:
Narsis is beautiful, yes... but practical in terms of gameplay, no.
just lower the resolution.

Hehe, yeah right. The problem is not in visual effects but in an overkill of faces. Changing resolution won't help a bit. Reducing view distance to a minimum will, but what's the fun walking thru a beautiful city when you barely see a building when it's 10 feet away.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:50 pm

But should you have to lower your resolution down to 640x480 just to enter a city?

Thats what i mean by impracticality in terms of gameplay. At TR we have a standard, that the FPS should not drop below what you get in Balmora when you're making a claim. Narisis is the big exception to date...why? Cause it looks good and because Prom was a dedicated member of the project.

Narisis looks amazing, but when it comes to making a game, its not the only factor to consider. Its only 50% of the game dev process. Scripts and NPCs haven't even been added yet, and you already have to drop your video settings.. what will it be like later, when you've got a couple dozen scripts executing every frame and NPCs walking around, in edition to rendering all the sounds, statics, and animated banners?

Negrodomous · Post by **Negrodomous** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:57 pm

The problem is not in visual effects but in an overkill of faces.

do you mean a bunch of npcs? if so we should just delete some of them.

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:01 pm

No no, the polygon face count on the models used in all the statues, new buildings, etc. There are just too many, and it helps kill your framerate. Morden is right though, the NPC's and the interior entrances will only worsen this situation. Prom already added the guards to the city, but there are no ambient NPC's yet, nor quest scripts, nor interior entrances.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:58 am

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:53 am

It's god-like patience, unless he lied about the system he uses.

Darth_Blade · Post by **Darth_Blade** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:14 am

I'm curious...
I never participated in any serious research for TR. So tell, WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU GET ALL THE INFO TO BUILD UP NARSIS. No, I understand that something had to be made up, but, hey, I never ever heard or read about any hanging gardens, forbidden island etc. etc. Actually, the only thing I knew about Narsis was that it is the council seat (or whatever it's called ^_^` correct me if I'm wrong) of Great House Dres. And that's it.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:27 am

Erm... there often isn't anything specific on cities not in any previous games.Therefore it is our JOB to make things up.

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:46 am

Ya, but some of the stuff are a bit too farfetched anyways. It will be taken care of

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:50 am

Narsis being Dres Council Seat ? Wow. Never heard of it.

kingfish · Post by **kingfish** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:06 pm

nope, not dres, it's hlaalu capital...

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:42 pm

Prom made a LOT up, things that were just a tad bit too much. Like the Hanging Gardens. We'll need to take that out.

Also, the Hlaalu buildings are already murderous on FPS ... maybe we should, in addition to thinning out Narsis somewhat, generally recommend running TR with that FPS optimiser? I don't know how much it screws with the game's appearance though.

Post by **Haplo** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:44 pm

I think it cuts down the max view distance to something like 10-15 feet in front of the player.

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:53 pm

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:48 pm

kingfish wrote:nope, not dres, it's hlaalu capital...

I knew that. But Darth posted that he knows that it's Dres council seat... Either it's a typo or he found something...

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:55 pm

Stumpytheguar wrote:Actually, if you use his most recent one, it will actively detec the number of vertices and set your view distance accordingly. So in the wilderness you'll have a HUGE range of vision, while in say Narsis you'd only be able to see a few feet ahead of you.

That is if you have the optimiser on novice mode - on advanced, you can have a hotkey set for increasing view distance and one for lowering view distance, as well as two for min/max distance.

Additionally, there is a setting that takes out small objects, such as cutlery, urns, paper, tools and other paraphernalia that is on the other side of the town, significantly incerasing FPS. You can turn all of this on/off whilst ingame.

Also, crosshair on/off feature, music volume changer (in-game) and music track skipping and sustaining features.

There is an N-Patch feature that smoothes out meshes and makes the game look well tasty (but this screws FPS unless you have a Radeon X800.

This can also be turned on/off in-game.

It is a great program and I have used it since it came out - it has never given me CTDs or messed up my game in any way.

Use it!

Stumpytheguar · Post by **Stumpytheguar** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:34 pm

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:46 pm

Should be here: make sure you get version 1.96

http://morrowind.nm.ru/
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|__>>http://morrowind.nm.ru/Morrowind%20FPS%20Optimizer/index.html

Tamriel Rebuilt

Interesting Screenshot...

Interesting Screenshot...

You want an interesting screenshot eh?