Claim Submission: 33, -24: Sirrilas, Shrine to Mephala.

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Aaron
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Claim Submission: 33, -24: Sirrilas, Shrine to Mephala.

Post by Aaron »

This shrine is quite large, and well past it's prime. It also contains the most beautiful interior I've done :) The readme contains all the information you could possibly want. I know you're going to have some objections Sniper, as you always do with my claims (I just think too grandiose for the core's tastes I guess) so I'll present my basic arguement now :)

The shrine has a few valueable items in it, however it doesn't come close to the level of valueables in some much smaller shrines on Vvardenfel, and none of them come easy. The ebony spear can only be taken at the cost of 100 endurance and fighting your way through two cells full of nasties (or will be full of nasties anyway) and only if you have at least 130 strength to pull it out from under a large stone block. The glass towershield is deep inside the shrine, past flooded passages and a level 85 locked door, and also will be guarded by spider daedra. The amulet isn't particularly valueable, and while it does have a constant effect, it is more than outweighed by the fact that it summons daedra to attack you whenever you wear it ;) Anyway, read the readme for details!

Here's some screenshots.

Shrine of the Webspinner:
[img]http://img23.exs.cx/img23/8509/SirrilasShrineBottom.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img23.exs.cx/img23/1562/SirrilasShrineTop.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img23.exs.cx/img23/9077/SirrilasShrineWaterfall.jpg[/img]

Outer Halls:
[img]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/6540/SirrilasUpperEntHall.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img33.exs.cx/img33/1263/SirrilasLowerEntHall.jpg[/img]

Ruinous Passages:
[img]http://img68.exs.cx/img68/6639/SirrilasRuinsPassage.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img97.exs.cx/img97/7541/SirrilasRuinsLab.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img97.exs.cx/img97/2278/SirrilasRuinsStatue.jpg[/img]

Catacombs:
[img]http://img97.exs.cx/img97/1081/SirrilasCatacombsWater.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img94.exs.cx/img94/3143/SirrilasCatacombsBurial.jpg[/img]
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TR_Aar_33_-24_Sirrilas.zip
Download me! You'll need the Mephala Statue as well.
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Claims completed:
Yashazmus, Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon
Mzankh, Dwemer Ruin
Nchazdrumn, Dwemer Ruin
Sirrilas, Shrine of Mephala
Moriken, Abandoned Dunmer Stronghold
Old Necrom Morag Tong GH
Darconis Diamond Mine
Assorted other boring claims.
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Haplo
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Post by Haplo »

Nice Work
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Post by Garriath »

Absolutely beautiful. You should *so* do (or help with) Dun Akafell (the major part, that is.)
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Sniper4
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Post by Sniper4 »

The size *would* be okay if this was some well-known interior (mentioned in lore somewhere).... but this seems to be just a standard Daedric shrine.... Of course this is a shrine to Maphala (extremely rare) so it should be a bit larger. However, this is currently over 4 times the size of the average Daedric shrine. I can imagine it being maybe... 2 times the size though... The "shrine of the webspinner" is fine as it is. I would encourage you to keep it in this state (especially since that statue is huge, and plus, since shrines of the 3 "good daedra" are rare, the shrines probably should be bigger). However, when you combine the rest of it with it, you have a ruin as large as, or larger than some of the more famous ruins like Bal Fell, Ald Daedroth, etc. Another thing you don't realize is, the larger a dungeon is, the more it hurts FPS. Especially with all those steam effects of yours ;). So basically, the way to adjust this to get it submitted smoothly, with no more poking and proding until after review is:
-Keep the webspinner shrine as is
-Reduce dungeon size by 1/2 and replace alot of that daedric ruin style material with caves (so that this thing won't be soooo much bigger than the famous ruins when it comes to building material).
-The ebony spear thing of yours can stay. Yinnie and I worked that out together.
-The rest of the loot can stay as is however, with the galss tower sheild, the only way we can justify having that as well, is to hide it in a (small) room that is well hidden. This might be where your scripted traps could come in handy ;).
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SlugZ
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Post by SlugZ »

You could attach the shrine to the main quest... then there is use for the massive dungeon.
Interior Designer:
----------------------------------
Now making:
Almalexia, Manor district (21,-26) #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8

Yay! Dun Akafell passed review! Now I'm happy! :)
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fanfas
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Post by fanfas »

SlugZ wrote:You could attach the shrine to the main quest... then there is use for the massive dungeon.
I agree, sometimes i think bigger is good :D, and lets say for example, who build the shrine could have been a cult that wanted to mark their achievements in the main land with this massive shrine, as well as a token of a major appreciation for mephala. :D
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Dragon
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Post by Dragon »

That 6th house base very pretty big.
Big is not neccesarily bad unless it's done ala cs_rats :P
Due to the sheer size of the project, it will take years and years. Important members will get jobs, families, shot, whatever, and leave
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Sniper4
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Post by Sniper4 »

If it plays a role in the MW main quest or is implemented in some special way, pre-approved by the core then it is okay.... but as far as I know, it isn't :P.
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SlugZ
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Post by SlugZ »

Are there any plans for the mainquest yet?
Interior Designer:
----------------------------------
Now making:
Almalexia, Manor district (21,-26) #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7 and #8

Yay! Dun Akafell passed review! Now I'm happy! :)
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Post by Kasan Moor »

Can't this be a shrine build by the Morag Tong, but abandoned (or the brothers were murdered by the spider daedra :wink: )? And maybe we could make a quest for the Morag Tong to retake the shrine?
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Aaron
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Post by Aaron »

Ok, obviously I'm going to try to defend the size of Sirrilas, as I belive it's reasonable (or I wouldn't have made it that way). You say if it were a famous shrine like Ald Daedroth it would be reasonable, but what makes Ald Daedroth famous? It's not mentioned in lore, it's not mentioned in any other elder scrolls games, it's only famous because it's used in two quests in Morrowind. What evidence is there that says there are ANY famous mainland Daedric shrines? I've read most of the in game books, and though I know I haven't read them all, I haven't come across anything mentioning any mainland Daedric shrines, let alone anything mentioning one as well known or famous. Do you take this to mean there are no famous shrines on the mainland, or, much more likely, that Bethesda simply didn't take the time and effort to come up with lore for shrines it never planned to build? If we treat all of Bethesda's lore gaps as evidence of non-existance then we'd have to remove much of the things that make TR's landscape interesting and inspireing. We should stick to lore, of course, that's the whole point. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be creative as well and fill the gaps Bethesda left.

Sirrilas has all the evidence on it's exterior of being an important shrine. First: the exterior of the shrine itself has three entrances, only two were actually built as part of the original shrine, the third is a cave door, but that implies to me at least that there used to be a third entrance there, which was destroyed and someone (the necromancer living in the ruinous passages maybe?) replaced it with another sort of door (Personally I'd prefer it if it were a 'dark hole' type door). Most mainland Daedric shrines only have one door, hardly any have three, this implies from the start that it's probubly a large shrine. Second: The shrine has a Velothi guard outpost on the road to it. NO other shrine in the game has a guard outpost on the road leading to it, this either implies to me that A: This shrine was very important to justify this, or B: the guard outpost was built later to keep whatever lives in the shrine from causing problems in the surrounding countryside. However I belive if the later were true it would probubly use Indoril architecture, which it doesn't. Third: There is a stronghold extremely close to Moriken, which even has it's own walkway up to a platform overlooking the shrine. This implies that the stronghold was built to guard the shrine, both due to it's close proximity, and the implication which can be drawn from the platform that it was built after or at the same time as Sirrilas. No other shrines in the game have a stronghold to guard them. Obviously that probubly wouldn't be the stronghold's only purpose, it certainly provided protection for the farms in the surrounding countryside as well, but it's location is certainly significant.

I drew the following conclusion based on the locations of these structures (and claimed them all to flesh it out). Sirrilas was once a very important shrine to Mephala, possibly one of the largest in Tamriel. The fact that it isn't mentioned in lore doesn't mean anything, as no mainland shrines are mentioned in lore. The stronghold was built to guard the shrine, as was the guard outpost, and was probubly a post at which noble-born troops were stationed allowing them, if they were so inclined, to avoid much actual combat while still having an honorable posting.

I belive Sirrilas should have at least two quests envolving it, possibly three, all of which I'd be more than happy to make myself, one would be a kill quest for the fighter's guild or mage's guild to kill the witch/necromancer living in the ruinous passages (very simple). The second would be a major quest for the Morag Tong envolving the shrine itself, which I haven't really come up with a plot for yet, but I will :) The third would maybe be a shrine quest for Mephala. Anyway, as I said, this shrine is larger than most Vvardenfell shrines, but that doesn't mean it breaks lore, as there are no large mainland shrines mentioned in lore.
Claims completed:
Yashazmus, Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon
Mzankh, Dwemer Ruin
Nchazdrumn, Dwemer Ruin
Sirrilas, Shrine of Mephala
Moriken, Abandoned Dunmer Stronghold
Old Necrom Morag Tong GH
Darconis Diamond Mine
Assorted other boring claims.
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Post by Sniper4 »

Okay, I am really getting tired of this. If you want to get this by me, talk to kothloth, but until then, I am NOT submitting this.
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Post by Kothloth »

I wouldn't have cared if it were just as big as the bigger shrines on vvadenfell. Mainland could probably have a few aswell. However, if it's bigger then those, then it might be a problem. Since that would imply it's also more important, which it shouldn't be. Ald Daedroth not important? It sure is, it's sheogoraths main shrine I believe. Why you talk to him in a puny shrine underneath Vivec, I don't know. But Ald Daedroth sure is the largest shrine dedicated to him. And he's one of the 4 main daedra guys if I'm not wrong.

Also, your "there's no proof there isn't huge daedric shrines in mainland" theory is terribly wrong. With the same reasoning, you could just as well say "there's no proof there isn't a huge dwemer missile silo" and there's no type of argument I dislike more then that. Also, since when did the exteriormodders decide how big interiors like these should be? Just because there's three entrances doesn't mean you have to make it über. You could even send a message to the person in charge of the map to have him remove two doors if that would have been better. Though anyways, that a shrine with three doors has to be important is just a fact you made up by yourself.
NO other shrine in the game has a guard outpost on the road leading to it
You sure this building is even a guardpost for the shrine? ;)

In which case, I hardly can't accept that. And why has the number of quests anything to do with the importance or size of the interior? And you should not draw conclusions like "this has to be the grandest place of it's kind" based on your own conclusions, if everyone did that morrowind would turn out pretty ugly I tell you. If you want to defend the size, you must come up with better arguments then this. Lore bound arguments. As it is now, I have no other option the to agree with Sniper in having the interior cut down.
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Post by attackdrone »

Aaron - I looked over the same exact cells.

The cells are some of the most cluttered (in terms of entrances) cells I have seen outside of a town.

The exteriors are sloppily done - incorporating way too many different things (strongholds, velothi buildings, caves, and daedric ruins) in too small of an area. If I could cast my vote for anything it would be to remove some of those extra interiors.

And yes, if you were to assume that all of the interiors were connected, then it would be one of *the* most important daedric shrines in existence... big, huge... cool... important. However I believe that was due to poor judgement by the exterior artist and the reviewer than to any decision by Tamriel Rebuilt to make it so... grandiose.

I'm not blaming you for anything - the exteriors are quite misleading and frustrating. I have some ancestral tombs in that same exact cell...

I cant even find the appropriate interiors - I think that the "outpost" was listed as a tomb... I vote on a big fat *DELETED* to all the extra crap in those cells.
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Post by Nazz »

To be honest I really didn't want any of the non town interiors to be open because the areas are still being cleaned up. 3-6 in particular is one I have been meaning to get to but haven't had the time.

Obviously it will be the cores decision on whether or not this interior can be used but I have asked that Yinnie close the non town ints for map 3 for now since the exterior areas aren't finalized. I don't want anyone to claim something that I might end up deleting at some point.
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Post by Aaron »

Alright, here's what I'm thinking I'll do, I'll take out the whole catacombs cell, but I'll need to make the outer halls cell slightly bigger in order to connect to the lowest entrance. I'll also take out the 'dark hole' doorway connecting the Shrine of the Webspinner with the catacombs, and just make it a black tunnel the player can't go through. I'm going to have to scale down the Outer Halls cell as well to prevent framerates from being atrocious since I'm adding a little bit to it to accomidate that lowest entrance. Hmm, although, I may be able to make the connection to it through the fountain in the outer halls (have it go down deeper into a small underwater room connecting the underwater hole in the shrine and the underwater entrance - so that entrance is simply a water drainage point for the water in the shrine). If that's not enough, I can chop off the side passageway that leads to the shrine on the right side, redesign the passageway on the left so that it looks as though it once lead to a small room, and put a small room on the right side which could possibly be a Sisterhood of the Spider outpost? Maybe put that in it's own cell to reduce lag. That change won't reduce the size much, it will reduce it some, while lending more of a sense of purpose to the shrine, and adding more detail. Removing the Catacombs will of course reduce the size greatly, putting the overall size slightly larger than say, Maelkashishi (discounting the much larger size of the central shrine of course).
Claims completed:
Yashazmus, Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon
Mzankh, Dwemer Ruin
Nchazdrumn, Dwemer Ruin
Sirrilas, Shrine of Mephala
Moriken, Abandoned Dunmer Stronghold
Old Necrom Morag Tong GH
Darconis Diamond Mine
Assorted other boring claims.
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Sniper4
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Post by Sniper4 »

Just for the record, you may want to wait and see what happens with 3-6. Alot of the exteriors there are going to be altered greatly.
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Post by Aaron »

Will do, thanks for the advice :)
Claims completed:
Yashazmus, Shrine of Mehrunes Dagon
Mzankh, Dwemer Ruin
Nchazdrumn, Dwemer Ruin
Sirrilas, Shrine of Mephala
Moriken, Abandoned Dunmer Stronghold
Old Necrom Morag Tong GH
Darconis Diamond Mine
Assorted other boring claims.
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Sniper4
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Post by Sniper4 »

no problem.
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