Other planets

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:25 am

I know that there are other planets but what are they.If the Dwemmer could go to Oblivan aka space could they go to other planets too?I don't mean like a dwemmer rocket ship I mean magic and all that mumbo-jumbo.
edit:I'm asking for your opinion on dwemmer going to plant and info on other planets,none of that is was made by the god what-every.
p.s. I have no idea what this is good for...

Uldar · Post by **Uldar** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:39 am

Here is a link to the Imperial Library with some information that may answer your questions.

http://til.gamingsource.co.uk/cosmology.shtml

Asylum · Post by **Asylum** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:56 am

the dwemer didn't go to other planets they went to other planes, obivion is an other plane and not space, it's like an other dimention...

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 5:09 pm

As far as I know, the basic cosmology of everything is that Nirn is just one plane(t), while there are 8 other such planets, corresponding to the eight divines of the Cyrodiilic pantheon. The ninth divine, Tiber Septim, represents Nirn. Oblivion is the space between the plane(t)s and is filled with chaos, which no mortal can exist within without the protection of being in a "pocket world" like Battlespire or the Mantella Crux.

I call them "plane(t)s" because they are both planes and planets. They are planes because they are infinte in width and breadth and one standing on one of the nine plane(t)s could wal forever in any cardinal direction. However, when observed from the outside, they appear to be round to the mortal eye, which is incapable if grasping infinity and simplifies the structure to a sphere. Thus, they are also planets.

Aetherius is the realm of magicka which surrounds Oblivion and the plane(t)s within it, and is visible from holes in the black Oblivion called stars. These can be seen during the night. The sun, Magnus, is a very large tear in Oblivion and is the source through which Magicka flows through Oblivion streams (in particle units called "deadrons") into the mortal realm of Nirn.

Now, the dwemer did know about these plane(t)s and were also able to observe them using large telescopes. Whether or not they were actually able to visit them, however, is anyone's guess.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Dec 16, 2004 6:43 pm

Actually Nirn is not a representation of Septim, if anything it is the representation of Lorkhan as destroying Lorkhan would have destroyed the world (this is the reason Auri-El tied Lorkhan's heart to his bow and shot it into the air where it would land and create Red Mountain). Though technically of course the twin moons Jone and Jode are Lorkhan's remains split in two and dead.

The 8 plane(t)s are not actually the 8 Cyrodiilic divines, they are the 8 remaining major Aedra which are first and foremost the Altmeri gods, most of them were violently opposed to humanity and fought against them when they sided with Lorkhan. One of the Emperors (think it was Reman - guy who created the second Empire) simply co-opted the Altmeri gods as they were being worshipped already by the Cyrodiils who had abandoned most of their old worship of Shezzar (Lorkhan/Shor).

Lord_Gallant · Post by **Lord_Gallant** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:30 pm

Where did you get your info, Marauth? I do not claim to be an expert on this particular subject, but I went back to the Imperial Library to verify if what you say is true and it does say that the eight plane(t)s are the eight divines.

As for the representation of Nirn as Tiber Septim, you might very well be right. That was really just my opinion. I am not suggesting that Septim is Nirn as the divines are the plane(t)s, but that his is the only divine which came from Nirn and it symbolically makes sense that he should represent it.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 8:52 pm

Actually 8 Aedra = 8 Divines. Plus we have 9 Divine aka Talos. So Cyrodiils worship Aedra.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:25 pm

i kind of whanted to avioed all that god junk

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:16 pm

And yet, my friend, this 'god junk' is the answer to the question you posed.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 11:41 pm

no that is what people on tamriel think not the truth. I was talking about about what they think the planets are like EX: we know venus has a gas athomasphere

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:15 am

Seeing as both the Daedra and Aedra have probably confirmed this, there's very little proof that this theory is false.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:09 am

what teoreoy? if mine your crazy seeing as how they are both gods and NOT REAL if not sorry

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:17 am

So the main character, you're saying, was high off of LSD when he observed the daedra lords Azura and Hircine and spoke with Molag Bal, Sheogorath, Bo-Et-Hiah, and Malacath?

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:21 am

Don't forget Mehrunes Dagon too.

Anyway, because the Dwemer did most of the planetary research and they are no longer around to divulge whatever they learned, most knowledge of outer space died along with them. I doubt that the Dwemer ever managed to leave Tamriel via their scientific discoveries. There seems to be no evidence that they ever attempted to leave, no spaceship remains or the like.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 12:51 pm

There's actually no proof that there's space not talking about a POSSIBILITY to build a spaceship.
Dwemer imagined the planets to be round. At least it is what they have in their Observatory.
Nirn is considered to be flat BTW because it is plane, not planet.
Actually Oblivion can be considered to be space but I doubt it can be called space. It's the plane between planes, realm between realms. It's not static.
And don't forget about those two flyin' corpses guys and gals !

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:23 pm

Jacurutu wrote:Don't forget Mehrunes Dagon too.

Anyway, because the Dwemer did most of the planetary research and they are no longer around to divulge whatever they learned, most knowledge of outer space died along with them. I doubt that the Dwemer ever managed to leave Tamriel via their scientific discoveries. There seems to be no evidence that they ever attempted to leave, no spaceship remains or the like.

Yes, but what about the Dwemer in Tel Fyr? Does he not state that he was in an "outer realm" at the time where all the dwemer died? I doupt he went to another plane or planet but he could of just been to another continent.

And the dwemer did die, but they still have old, metal back rusted books. And artifacts. But, heh, well leave that for Mr.Fyr

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 5:34 pm

Stalker wrote:Nirn is considered to be flat BTW because it is plane, not planet.

I might be wrong, but I recall that Nirn is both endless and round.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 7:23 pm

Thats not true. TIL says that Nirn is a finite orb.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:38 pm

omg.... if nirn was endless and round it would take up all space everywhere and there would be no space for any planets or moon. if it was a endless flat plane it would not have moons rouate around it and there would be no phases of the moons cause nirn could not block out the sun the only reason there might be moon phases with a infinit plane would be the moons covering each other and if that was the case then there would be no both moons hidden phase along with other phase.this is problolee what the people of nirn think we thought the would was flat for awhile too.

Lord Elias · Post by **Lord Elias** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:46 pm

If Nirn is endless,that means that if you go one way and keep that way,you wont get back from where you started.If its finite,you would.I am a bit confused.How can it be endless and finite in the same time?

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sat Dec 18, 2004 10:53 pm

Technically, I've never heard of it being endless. And as to the anti-physics problem, well, heh, it ain't our universe is it? Nirn, and the world of TES is not earth. Therefor, technically, you can not always apply rules to it. If it was a scholar that came up with the theory, it could always be wrong. However, if a being of greater matter (intelligent, medium intelligent daedra, or a divinity) then most probably, they're right. But, then again, it could be anything. Give us a link, and that will answer it.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:15 am

Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. Planets are magical and impossible.

From TIL.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:29 am

Garriath wrote:
Planets are magical and impossible.
From TIL.

TIL is retarted look up you see planets in the sky everyday all this is therorys and this is not what I what to know anywhy I don't give if yhe people of tamriel THINK there planets are gods in 2000 years are so they will known better. anyway i started this to ask people what the other planets are like not what if there gods.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:48 am

No need to be hyper active

And in 2000 thousand years they might not find out about outer space and stuff because that is not in their world.

To your question, I haven't many ideas of all the planets, but I know the plane of Oblivion is where the daedra come from. It is supposed to be a world of chaos and such. I'm not the one to ask but I do believe the stars in the sky are holes to another plane. Though I've forgotten the name...

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 2:57 am

Colostriph wrote:No need to be hyper active And in 2000 thousand years they might not find out about outer space and stuff because that is not in their world.

i mean like how we have computers and tv and all that. sooner or later they will be as advanced as us and will have spaceships and will known planets are are balls of rock not gods or planes(which they will be flying...pun

)

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:24 am

Well, they had something we didn't: Magic and a lot of supernatural phenomenon. With Actual Gods appearing, accomplishing great deeds, and leading them the way they want them to be led. That means their evolution depends on what the REAL Deities (not made up) want them to be. Or rather influenced.

Maybe some races, Altmer, some Imperials, maybe even some sload, will evolve. But we have to remember, practically every race on Nirn is led by deities. With a few exceptions of course (I am thinking of many things...). I doubt Bosmer would ever, Nords, rather doubtful, Dunmer, heh, guess, Blackmarsh? Why do I even ask...

So, the chances are that, unless the gods want it, no computers. And the dwemer where the only ones who wanted to venture outside with spacecraft (I do believe). Altmer will probably get advanced, but not the same technollogy as us. Far from it.

Uldar · Post by **Uldar** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:25 am

The Elder Scrolls universe is not our universe, the rules of our reality don't apply. This is a fantasy world not a science fiction world. It is a world of magic and myth, gods and demons. Looking 2000 years into the future of Nirn will not change these facts. The Aedra and Daedra will still exist because they are the reality of Nirn. Magic will still exist because it too is the reality of Nirn. What won't exist is space travel to other planets, because in Nirn, there is no space, there is Oblivion. And the Planets are not rocky bodies floating in space/Oblivion, but other dimensions.

The information from the Imperial Library is not made up by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about (and therefore not RETARDED) but a collection of info provided by Bethesda through in-game books, interviews and the like. As the developers at Bethesda are the creators of this world, the rules of cosmology, theology, physics, etc. they provide are indisputable. This is LORE

The future of Nirn will most likely not follow along the same line as our world. The technology the inhabitants of Nirn will develope will most likely incorporate magic. So probably; no gun powder, no internal combustion engines, no electricity. And none of the tools that utilise these technologies. Though, perhaps magical counterparts.

Remember, this is fantasy, not reality.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 3:32 am

Uldar Gerzae wrote:The Elder Scrolls universe is not our universe, the rules of our reality don't apply. This is a fantasy world not a science fiction world. It is a world of magic and myth, gods and demons. Looking 2000 years into the future of Nirn will not change these facts. The Aedra and Daedra will still exist because they are the reality of Nirn. Magic will still exist because it too is the reality of Nirn. What won't exist is space travel to other planets, because in Nirn, there is no space, there is Oblivion. And the Planets are not rocky bodies floating in space/Oblivion, but other dimensions.

The information from the Imperial Library is not made up by someone who doesn't know what they are talking about (and therefore not RETARDED) but a collection of info provided by Bethesda through in-game books, interviews and the like. As the developers at Bethesda are the creators of this world, the rules of cosmology, theology, physics, etc. they provide are indisputable. This is LORE

The future of Nirn will most likely not follow along the same line as our world. The technology the inhabitants of Nirn will develope will most likely incorporate magic. So probably; no gun powder, no internal combustion engines, no electricity. And none of the tools that utilise these technologies. Though, perhaps magical counterparts.

Remember, this is fantasy, not reality.

Exactly what I was pointing at. You may call it stupid folklore all you want, insult and put it aside as myth, but it is, in the world of TES, reality. And unless you understand it, well, I do not know what to say.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 5:54 am

Yeah, littlebros, learn the difference between the game and real life

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:26 pm

Quote:
Since each plane(t) is an infinite mass of infinite size, as yet surrounded by the Void of Oblivion, the mortal eye registers them as bubbles within a space. Planets are magical and impossible.

From TIL.

Actually, TIL said that the other planets were infinite but NIRN was finite.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:02 pm

I ask you for quotes people. Unless you can provide a link, and not just quotes, that usually proves the condition.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:11 pm

And another Rian was born...

Darnoc · Post by **Darnoc** » Mon Dec 20, 2004 6:31 pm

In a way, even our own earth is finite and infinite at the same time. It is finite, because it has a finite mass, a finite time and you can walk around it and arrive at the same place. On the other hand it is infinite, because there is no real end or beginning (this is the nature of an orb) when you are on the surface of this orb. This could also apply to the world of Nirn and explain the sentence how it can be finite and infinite at the same time.

But the people of Nirn will only truly find out if someone tries to acctually sail as far as he can and find the truth (like Magellan). Until then, who knows.

Concerning development in Nirn and the influence of the gods: The whole TES-universe is magical, yes. So development will probably be magical too. Why must every development be technical in its nature?

But this is not necessarily the case. Why? Well, the Dwemer had technological advance. What happened once can happen again.

Another argument there is for technological development in a magical world is from another fantasy-RPG which acctually concerns itself with this exact question: Arcanum.

Arcanum is also a magical world with real existing gods (something you can discover during the course of the game). But the people (at least humans) simple forgot about their existence, stopped worshiping them. With that, also the power of the gods began to fade until it was practically no longer existing.

The second argument for development lies in the opposite nature of magic and technology. Technology tries to understand and use the laws of nature, while magic tries to bend and break those same laws. Nature is all about balance, so therefore there must be a balance between those opposing forces. There are times when technology has the upper hands and there are times when magic has the upper hand.

And the last, and as I think truest argument, lies in the nature of humans itself. In Arcanum, the dwarf king explains that humans are driven by their own mortality. Human lifes are short and therefore humans are mostly afraid of their own deaths. Driven by this subconscious fear, they act without thinking of consequences, they try to reach immortality by trying to be remembered for eternity. No god, as mighty as he is, can ever stop humans from acting like they do. That is why humans in the end are the most successfull race. They grow fast and life swift and short. And they imagine, invent and create without thinking of what they are doing. They just do. While the long-living races have time to think and are more cautious in their actions (therefore their development is also slower). Humans function by the snowball-system, the more there are, the more they multiply and the faster everything developes.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 4:40 pm

I cant provide a link because Im on dial-up so Ill tell you it is on TIL. Use your mouse and look.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 5:02 pm

What is Nirn?
Nirn (Ehnofex for 'Arena') is a finite ball of matter and magic made from all of the god planets at the beginning of time, when Lorkhan tricked/convinced/forced the gods to create the mortal plane. Nirn is the mortal plane and the mortal planet, which is the same thing. Its creation upset the cosmic balance; now all souls (especially the Aedra-Daedra/Gods-Demons) have a vested interest in Nirn (especially its starry heart, Tamriel).

http://www.til.gamingsource.co.uk/cosmology.shtml

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 6:36 pm

Wow! Thank you Stalker! Nirn is finite!

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 12:55 am

littlebros wrote:what teoreoy? if mine your crazy seeing as how they are both gods and NOT REAL if not sorry

i meant in real life not the game and I only did this(the foroum) cause i was bored and comparing the ideas of people on tamriel and real life
@stalker:you know that is not very nice coment about Rian I was half alseelp when i wrote all of this so i was not enraged I bored right now in fact

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Wed Dec 22, 2004 5:18 am

My god, a flamewar, or nearly. Anyway, about the 8 divines being the 8 Aedra, that's not exactly true, originally Arkay was not a god, he was born mortal and elevated to godhood, and there was an extra god Y'ffre who no longer has a planet, not to mention the late Trinimac. The Aedra are the Altmeri pantheon, while the divines are the Imperial pantheon, so Auri-El the Aedra becomes Akatosh the divine.

This is not just a matter of naming, the Imperials believe that the gods they worship are separate beings from those the Altmer worship, or at least each god is two beings in one (as the Marukhati tried to prove when they exorcised the 'meri' elements from Auri-El/Akatosh) in truth the Aedra are the real 'versions' of the divines as they walked among the Aldmer and helped them in their war against the early men. Lorkhan (the moons Jone/Masser and Jode/Secunda) was the only god who sided with humans and he was exclusively their god prior to them taking on the Aldmeri religion from the Ayleids at the time living in Cyrodiil.

Regarding outer space, there's no such thing in TES, the night sky is how mortals percieve Oblivion:

"Space is the interpretation of Oblivion, which is black and empty and surrounds the mortal plane. Space is infinite, but it acts just like a planet, in that Oblivion is 'surrounded' by Aetherius. You can see Aetherius by the stars."

http://www.til.gamingsource.co.uk/cosmology.shtml

Of further interest is this:

The sky is another visual phenomenon caused by mortal mental stress, the night sky in particular. The sky is as impossible as planets; in essence, when you look into the sky, 'you look outside the material plane'. At night, Nirn is surrounded by Oblivion. The day sky is the multicolored elemental cloak of Magnus the sun. It changes colors as elemental influences rise and fall. Thus, when one looks at the day sky, they see into the raiments of Aetherius, and stare at magic.

From the same page. So you see there is no real 'space' for the Dwemer to have ever gone too, it is Oblivion, they did go to Oblivion, through magickal means. But you can't just fly up into the air and eventually reach it because it is not part of the mortal plane.

Sapphron · Post by **Sapphron** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:25 am

Do any of you have ideas on what would happen if you did decide to fly up, by levitation or some other mode of transportation? Would you continue on forever, or stop at some invisible dome?

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:56 pm

Well you'd encounter the edge of the mortal plane, quite what you'd experience has not been revealed but presumably there would be some sort of limit as Nirn is finite, I'd go with the invisible barrier idea for the moment, until we get more info.