LB003G0676's Concept Art

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat May 27, 2006 6:11 pm

The art in the links was beautiful, but as concepts it mostly stank. There was a lot more energy put into applying the filters than in the actual representation.

Oh how little you know/appreciate about CA and digital art....

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat May 27, 2006 7:09 pm

I know what concepts are in my future profession, architecture. They are mostly simple drawings. I'm not saying that you can't splash out occaisonally. But if you are developing any design you should start with simple drawings.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 27, 2006 8:16 pm

Harke, we know what concepts are in our current hobby, modding. Often art and design comes before a functional drawing, and often the jump is made straight from art to model without a functional drawing concept in between.

We dont need to make a real building.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat May 27, 2006 9:07 pm

Well, I am happy you said you prefer mine Harke, and I just wonder whether i could get that far doing it digitally. I know I could achieve that with some acrylic paints and a canvas 1 metre high. At the moement even, my GCSE contextual study is on Chuck Close, who is gobsmackingly photrealistic:

[img]http://www.artsmia.org/mia/e_images/11/mia_11909e.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.umassmag.com/Fall_2005/images/983/close_310x310.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/l/m/lms368/SelfPortraits/Images/close.gif[/img]

But digitally I have problems. I have to practise. Thanks alot Harke. And i don't know what you mean with proportions, I haven't ever listened to tricks to make your art better, other than the perspective rule. I can just imagine things, or observe them (then I can achieve photorealism) and sribble/draw them down.

To me Photoshop is a refinement tool, and feels like I am cheating. Anyone who can utilitise it properly, like Turelio, are very skilled in it.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sat May 27, 2006 10:03 pm

Jale wrote: Often art and design comes before a functional drawing, and often the jump is made straight from art to model without a functional drawing concept in between.

Take a look at the Art of Morrowind on TIL. While the drawings themselves are quite elaborate, they are mostly simple line drawings. They are not atmospherics with complicated lighting effects that the Morrowind engine , or in our case the Oblivion one wouldn't even manage in-game.
I just think that some of the link examples that were posted were far too over-done to be very usefull as concept art. I also think that having everything turn high gloss in a render is exactly the kind of mistake a beginner would make. But wait for my Concept Art, and you can all laugh.

Proportions are nothing but the decision to enforce a system of relative measurements on a drawing. Do you know how high your palace is? If your palace is 1 high, is it 1 deep, and 2 wide? By asking yourself these questions, and answering them before you start drawing, you end up with a
better looking drawing.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sat May 27, 2006 11:33 pm

The links turelio posted were a demonstration of what can be done with digital art. I dont think they were concepts.

And sorry, but you are saying that there isnt overdone concept art?

http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p06.jpg (main picture)
http://til.gamingsource.net/gallery/mw_TAoM_p10.jpg

There are simple line drawings there because in the process of creation, you know that most ideas arent going to come to fruition. No point slaving away on a perfect bit of work if its not going to be useful, so you sketch and then if it works out, you do a better copy. Its nothing to do with having a functional drawing right off the bat.

Proportion is only relevant if you have something to compare it to. And it is irrelevant, since we can scale the models up and down at will. Basically saying that we should enforce dimensions (which are measured in totally arbitrary units by the way). Thats like saying that the first colour you put on a picture is what will have to stay there for the entire time.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sun May 28, 2006 12:15 am

Jale,

About the concept art, nevermind. The stuff I got honked up about are the images 2- 4 in this link.

http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=65380

I don't know if they were meant to be concepts but they are on www.conceptart.org

Some of the Morrowind art was indeed coloured, but it wouldn't have taken nearly as long as the images I mentioned.

I didn't mean the proportions of the polygon towards the rest of Hammerfell, although TR will have to eventually decide on those as well.

The proportions I mentioned refer to the internal proportions of the object being draw, they are relative but if you apply a system of proportions to your drawings making the lenghts of the lines deliberate, rather than more or less random, they will look even more professional.
For drawing people proportions are more or less rigid. For drawing architecture it depends on the design you would want to have.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun May 28, 2006 12:26 am

Ive said this before.

We are not trying to draw for architecture.

Well outside that we need to model architecture. The point is that you seem to be telling people to draw as if they are trying to get their design accepted for the criteria you have been told. I understand that you think this is a good idea, but it really isnt. There is no point trying to get people to conform to that, when the system we work on is far better.

And I knew exactly what you meant. Basiccally you are saying that good concept art is drawn in proportion with itself, ie that it all looks as realistically sized and alligned with itself as possible. Yes that is true. It is also so obvious that it goes without saying.

If you had read what that person had said along with his posts you would realise that making ridiculously detailed, atmospheric and complicated paintings for games is this person's job. Thats what he has been trained and told to do. Saying that they are bad for concepts would be like him coming and telling you to do your architectural diagrams with paintbrushes.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun May 28, 2006 12:42 am

I understand both sides of that discussion, but I think that Harke is right in the fact that concepts such as that, aren't useful for modelling (you can't see very much deatail), but they are bloody beautfiul. And Jale is in the right, when he stated that art like that is still needed here. which is correct, as sometimes, only the model can be eccentuated to the modeller through the atmospheric drawings; funtional only shows 2D angles.

Well, I hope that is finished, lol.

Anyway, I need some ideas for the Strik promo even though it's close to finished, and Turelio's is undoubtebly the only piece needed. I still feeel I should contribute in some way. Just can't think of a scenario to draw. So ideas please, perhaps incorporating the questline.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sun May 28, 2006 2:46 am

Wow, where did all this come from. Yes, these were meant to be more as an example of digital art rather than of concept art, however nearly all of the examples in the links from what I recall were superb examples of concept art as well.

Harke the Apostle wrote:I know what concepts are in my future profession, architecture. They are mostly simple drawings. I'm not saying that you can't splash out occaisonally. But if you are developing any design you should start with simple drawings.

If you know this, than you would do good to take a look around CA.org, because these aren't just a little group of people who like to draw stuff. Many of them are professional concept artists, in fact the staff that runs the site are mostly comprised of veterans in the field, and they help organize regular workshops. There is even a section for employment opportunities, and alot of big names post their job offers there. Just a quick scan of that forum I saw jobs being offered by Rockstar, Lucas Arts, and Blizzard.

If you ever looked at the concept art done for any of the star wars movies, you will see MANY highly illustrated works. In fact they hired artists to do ONLY works like that. Its all about the idea, the concept. It all depends on what is needed and what it is needed for, and it isn't always for modelling. You are right that simple drawings are a big part of concept art, and you will definatly find those on CA.org too, I just didn't link you guys to any because I wanted to give examples of exceptional and complex digital art, so you could see what was possible.

Architecture, well I am unsure on what in that area you plan on doing, but if you are planning on being an architect, then they don't normally do art anyways. They usually will do drafts, and then to get an idea of what they are doing, they will build a model of the structure. Artists would be employed to help with things like interior design and such, and you might be surpised at how highly detailed those can turn out to be.

lb003g0676, what you do isn't cheating. If you took someone elses work and traced it with photoshop and called it your own, that would be cheating. I would suggest you not use the lense flare effect to much, most digital artists do consider that a sign of a persons.. "inexperience", and thats ok, when I first played with PS I used them too lol. 10 years.. perhaps for some of them you are right, but you might be pleasantly surprised what you will be able to do in just a year of consistant art. Increase that if you decide to take a class or go to school for it. Also people aren't usually good at everything, and while you might not match skill with some of these people in a few years, you might find something else that some of them would be blown away by.

I have several "Art of" books, including the Star Wars movies that I can scan some sections of for examples, some very awesome works.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun May 28, 2006 10:49 am

Okay, if lense flare is an amatuer thing to do, can you still do it manually? Obviously without the green and rainbow circles that get produced from lense flare. I have to say, many of the artworks you dispalyed in that link were fantastic. And I might have a shot at it, but some time, when I am not busy.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Sun May 28, 2006 10:59 am

[url]http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/lens-flare.htm[/url]

Hmm so the shape depends on the camera apature shape? I seem to recall in Morrowind that there were pentagonal or hexagonal lens flares...does that mean the character has a hexagonal pupil?

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:38 pm

As a modeller with an appreciation for the finer art, I can say that both styles of art definitely have their appeal, but if you want to have my eternal love and gratitude (which you do!) then please try to make your non-promo artwork into "modellable" pictures.

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=16149

For example, what Majra was describing here means that I can pick up the picture, put it into whichever program I use, and get to it. No guesswork, which is excellent. Because we need to mass produce meshes and textures on an incredible level, the easier it is to integrate the concept and the model, the more each of our handful of modellers can do.

Not pointing this at you specifically, Pound, but our artists in general. I love browsing through these CA threads daily to see what new breathtaking works appear, but the number of concept pieces that I could plop down and work from instantly are few and far between.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:46 pm

Yer, I know, that is what Harke was saying. But erally it's difficult for a concept artist to understand that. I should try modelling. But please Eyeball, tell me what would be useful when you want to model something. Even though concept art is sually just that... concept. As in not final work in the game.

Anyway, etll me how to draw an object. Do I need to label? Put Measurements? Large notes?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun May 28, 2006 5:55 pm

lb003g0676 wrote:I understand both sides of that discussion, but I think that Harke is right in the fact that concepts such as that, aren't useful for modelling (you can't see very much deatail), but they are bloody beautfiul.

That's because concept art is not necessarily "concept art for meshers". It's also useful for a lot of other things, such as getting the world's "mood" across, getting the ambiance right. Scenic concept art is for concept artists (help them imagine how individual pieces will be), writers (for a movie's script, a game's quests and dialogues, and in-game books, too), etc. It's useful for exterior modders...

So, just because an art piece is very detailed doesn't mean it's not concept art. There's different things to conceptualize.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:16 pm

lb003g0676 wrote:Yer, I know, that is what Harke was saying. But erally it's difficult for a concept artist to understand that. I should try modelling. But please Eyeball, tell me what would be useful when you want to model something. Even though concept art is sually just that... concept. As in not final work in the game.

Anyway, etll me how to draw an object. Do I need to label? Put Measurements? Large notes?

By all means, you guys can continue with your artwork as it is. I'm not trying to rain on your parade, you all never cease to amaze me. Just that, when a specific concept is up for modelling, drawing it like this:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/download.php?id=2783

For creatures/armor, or like the link in my previous post for architecture, makes little butterflies fly out of your image and into the psyche of a modeller, filling his mind with joyous subtle tones of angelic music.

Edit: Actually, even better is if they can have a pose like this from the front:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/files/werebearpolar.jpg

I'll try to make a very detailed Concept Art post in the OoT forum sometime in the next week, so we can have more cooperation between the artists and the modellers. In the mean time, keep up with the good work, and look forward to WSG 16!

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun May 28, 2006 6:58 pm

Yup WSG 16, and it would be great if yoyu were to post your idea of pergfect concept art. Althoguh we don't really have to worry about it until there are objects that need to concepted.

So I will save my hookah drawing for after you have shown me how to draw a perfect cocnept.

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:17 am

Oh, things like weapons or clutter are pretty simple, you can just draw a straight-on version for most of those. It's mostly for when we get into complex things like armor, creatures or architecture.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Mon May 29, 2006 12:21 am

Well, I think I have a plan for tgose kind of things. For architecture draw the shape and such on gridded paper, then focus on the different parts in deatil, on other pieces of paper. Anmd as for armor, probably similar how I did the first armor I designed. I need to include more notes, and more erfernce as to what material is.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:55 pm

This is kind of my own project, that I had wanted to upload at the start of this thread. Know about the shape of his head, but I didn't do this from observation either, I must add one of my observational drawings.

[url=http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=owndesign0029bi.jpg][img]http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9371/owndesign0029bi.th.jpg[/img][/url]

EDIT: and another part of this, it's not really a proper project. Just an idea for a game!

[url=http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=owndesigncar2qr.jpg][img]http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/695/owndesigncar2qr.th.jpg[/img][/url]

EDIT: and the 3rd and final piece i was ho[ping to get up, this was just something from ages ago. It needs work on the nose, and it was when I had less concept of 3D-ness!

[url=http://img506.imageshack.us/my.php?image=womanbetter7lj.jpg][img]http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/6223/womanbetter7lj.th.jpg[/img][/url]

EDIT again

Just did a bit of work (not photoshop) on the woman

[url=http://img217.imageshack.us/my.php?image=womenagainbetterthing9ii.jpg][img]http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/1762/womenagainbetterthing9ii.th.jpg[/img][/url]

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun Jun 04, 2006 8:36 pm

[url=http://img460.imageshack.us/my.php?image=piratesidea1colour8xb.jpg][img]http://img460.imageshack.us/img460/6399/piratesidea1colour8xb.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img453.imageshack.us/my.php?image=piratesidea2colour1he.jpg][img]http://img453.imageshack.us/img453/1331/piratesidea2colour1he.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img48.imageshack.us/my.php?image=piratecolour4ti.jpg][img]http://img48.imageshack.us/img48/9102/piratecolour4ti.th.jpg[/img][/url]

some of my latest art.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:56 pm

I don't like to bump this, but anyway, I am complteley contradicting mysekf by doing so

Rock Formation:
[url=http://img486.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rockformation5rc.jpg][img]http://img486.imageshack.us/img486/680/rockformation5rc.th.jpg[/img][/url]

And a 'Privateer' (thanks to Noir for giving me the correct terms)
[url=http://img95.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armorupperlevelantipiratebette.jpg][img]http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/4804/armorupperlevelantipiratebette.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Hopefully gonna do the lower haldf of that armor set soon

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:42 pm

And another bump, but this time, It's a bit of practice for photoshop. I dunno, If they have natives in the Jungles of hammerfell, but thats what I've made, perhpas monkey-like people.

[url=http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nativejunglercolour81fr.jpg][img]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/3306/nativejunglercolour81fr.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:44 pm

Great work Pound

The naval uniform is awesome. Very fancy. Its a real contrast from the pirate posted above. I guess the blue guy is a city state officer?

The privateer is also coming along well. When you're done try cleaning it up in photoshop.. removing all the smudges. Most of the smudges can be removed just be altering the brightness and contrast.

Another tip: When you're ready to color, and all your work is on the bottom layer (background)... select all (ctrl-a) and paste it into a new layer. Then change the layer type from 'Normal' to 'Multiply'. The 'Multiply' setting makes all white areas of your image transparent. Then create a new layer right underneath your image, and this is where you put all your color. This lets you effectively color underneath your lines so that you're color doesn't cover them, and you don't have to worry about messing up your work.

[url=http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pscolor3qc.jpg][img]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/7132/pscolor3qc.th.jpg[/img][/url]

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 3:48 pm

Thanks Morden, great advice too. I had no idea, and keepig the lines is often quite important.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:51 pm

Morden it works great, here it is

[url=http://img128.imageshack.us/my.php?image=armorupperlevelantipiratecolou.jpg][img]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6762/armorupperlevelantipiratecolou.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:58 pm

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:14 am

Sorry, I had to improve it again, but I am just messing with the lighting now.

[url=http://img124.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nativejunglercolour99jo.jpg][img]http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/4646/nativejunglercolour99jo.th.jpg[/img][/url]

And after tons of critisisation on CA.irg, got it even better!

[url=http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nativejunglercolour178mz.jpg][img]http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/5738/nativejunglercolour178mz.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 5:07 pm

That site rocks. What's your username there?

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 7:59 pm

Guess what my name is Macar, it's not exactly lke it's already going to be taken

.

evergrey · Post by **evergrey** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 9:12 pm

Wow, your art is amazing!

Bah,w hy be jealous of me? Your stuff is great.

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 10:05 pm

I am improving. I am practising with photoshop Only though, And I know the Jungle Native sucks, I just wanted to try somethign with strange and dynamic lighting. I will draw a moer clear sketch and colour it on PS soon. Thanks Evergrey.

BTW, is you avatar from Lazytown? If I am right, I am very embarrassed.

evergrey · Post by **evergrey** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:26 am

Haha yes it is, Eyeball forced me to watch the video. I made this avatar for him!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 12:49 am

Haha I thought it was Lazy Town.. now i'm embarassed. That's the show with the french fitness guy right, and all the creepy puppets?

I really like the lighting changes you made to the jungle man. Did you use lighting filters?

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:42 am

*hums to himself* It's a piece of cake to bake a pretty cake...

Edit: Oh, and you're all losers. Hahaha

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 1:44 am

That's the one with the girl with the pink hair?

Eyeball88 · Post by **Eyeball88** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:49 am

Yeah, the pink haired girl and the puppets. I'm trying to get Evergrey to convince her guild in WoW to do a 40-man version "YARR HARR FIDDLE DEE DEE!" pirate song over Ventrillo on one of their raiding nights. :/

What was this thread about, again?

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 6:21 am

Hahha, feel so much better now, not just me that is a loser. I can't stand that girls voice!

Morden: I didn't use Lighting filters, I dunno what they are. The only thing I used, as a finishing touch was a hue change (to yellow) and diffuse filter (?).

*patriotic*

Eyeball, this thread is about my art! And I intend to keep in that way!!! Therefore

[url=http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=antipiratehelm5if.jpg][img]http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/6349/antipiratehelm5if.th.jpg[/img][/url] hehehe, to be posted in the Navy WSG!

[url=http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=somegirlbetter0kp.jpg][img]http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2559/somegirlbetter0kp.th.jpg[/img][/url]< This is WIP, and not really TR related, I'm showing you what I'm doing for Concept Art Forums. I didn't do this from observation either. Mainly because there never see to be any supermodels waking around my town

.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:04 pm

Your skills continue to improve- between TR and CA you'll be a professional in no time! I like the WSG one. First of all- it's a good, solid drawing with a lot of character and it's also a succesful concept- it looks like a turban mixed with a renaisance helm.
With reguards to the colored version (in another thread) I dont think it's too glossy, but I think the color you used makes him look metalic. You might want to try a little white in the highlights (but I could be wrong)

lb003g0676 · Post by **lb003g0676** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 5:09 pm

Thanks Macar, I am much more happy with the 2nd woman pictuer in real life. Scans lose so much quality, as they make it too light. It's WIP as I asy, I hope you'll be most imperssed afterwards! And I am so pleased I have come here, it has improved my work incredibly, even if I do say so myself. That Turban/helm, was just so simple, and his face doesn't look stupid. Really I ahve everyone here to thanks, I ahve had a load of help and advice, all I needed was to see some fine Digital Art on CA.org of faces, and that spurred me on! I am currently undergoing a Myriad!