Morrowind Creatures

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 9:54 pm

I've been quick myself to point out in other posts that this is fantasy and as such real life laws don't have to apply. I guess maybe I should have just been a bit more blunt and said that although your concept makes for a nice looking creature it doesn't say Velk to me. It's fitting for Morrowind but I think it looks awqward and I'm putting that down to what looks like a ridgid shell covering the whole of the back of a creature that's going to be running off fast - It's going to look dumb animated.

For some other creature - It'd be great, a slower more heavily armed creature passive creature.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:01 pm

Dude, we know "velk" from one mention from Skeleton Man. There's no definition of what a velk is other than that it is relatively "long-legged." I really don't think Myzel's concept looks especially slow or anything.

But I'll be honest: I have reservations about every concept so far.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:37 pm

Obviously, there will never be a consensus here. The problem is that we are working with a name mentioned in lore and a very vague concept as a point of origin, and that concept has been interpreted differently by everyone involved. Art is now judged by whatever concept someone has personally formed from this name and vague description, instead of being assessed with an open mind. The fact that it is implied to be lore exacerbates this.

It's wrong I tell you!

No artist can be expected to draw a concept someone else has in mind, no matter how well the concept is explained. So I say: leave the designing to the artists.

Now, I say both mine and lighter's original designs were good creatures that fit Morrowind and would be great additions to the mod. That is really all that matters. And since the Velk is undefined and different to everyone, there is nothing that stops us from attaching the name 'Velk' to either concept.

For god's sake guys. It's just a name.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:56 pm

Do I really need to state that what I'm saying is opinion before I say it? By offering my ideas on the thread topic it seems like I've been misinterpreted. When I write that 'a velk has a skinnier frame' or such, of course we all know that that statement is how I invision it. Because I know fuck all about what a Velk is other than it has long legs and it can be fed kresh-weed.

The same as everyone else here regardless of what's written under their name.

All I was trying to do was give a bit of input and see what others come up with.

Lighter Than Some · Post by **Lighter Than Some** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:11 am

Lets step back a sec. Sounds like we've all had a long week. I don't think anyone meant any offense to another. I think Myzel is just trying to speed things along seeing as we've spent over a month (since oct 2nd)talking about just this one creature when this thread was made for as many creatures as we can think up as well as redesigning a few (swamp troll, vermai, mud golem, cephalopod)

parus · Post by **parus** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 12:28 am

You can't design something that has no purpose. Before we can really create a feasable creature we need to know certain things; What does it eat? Is it hunter or hunted? Where does it live - muddy swamp, or high mountain? Treetops? Open plain? Adaptable to more than one/etc... You can obviously expand this list infinately. The problem with the velk is that we don't know enough about it, and before a decent creature is designed some decisions need to be made.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:13 am

Sorry if I got too frustrated. I blame the stress.

Nalin: of course you can come with ideas. As far as I'm concerned you are one of the artists. You came with concepts of your own. Hell, people who don't draw can shoot ideas just as well.

What I was worried about is that good concepts may be dismissed by people with words under their name, simply because they look different from the idea of the Velk they have formed for themselves. I don't know, maybe that fear is unfounded, but that's the feeling I got and I think that's not an efficient way to be working. As Parus said, if it was a better defined creature this would probably be less of an issue.

parus · Post by **parus** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:18 am

As Parus said, if it was a better defined creature this would probably be less of an issue.

Well, yeah. Imagine if someone told you "hey, go design me a house - but I'm not telling you what the site is like, how big the house has to be or what materials I want it to use"...

Make decisions about it. All it needs is for someone to say "right, we need creatures in xyz region that eat abc and (example) can be herded".

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Dec 12, 2009 7:49 pm

I thought we explained what role the velk was filling, but perhaps I should say it again so its clear. The velk is a passive creature of the Deshaan plains. The Deshaan plains are exactly what they sound like, plains. We're looking for a giant bug that acts like a gazelle.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:42 pm

A 'shopped version of LTS's nixmount.

I didn't ask permission from Lighter to butcher this piece but I'm hoping that in the interest of developing the nixmount and keeping this thread active Lighter won't mind.

All I've done with this is made the head and neck a bit more horsey (I couldn't resist slimming down the rider either).

[url=http://img683.imageshack.us/i/nixmountvariation.png/][img]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2695/nixmountvariation.th.png[/img][/url]

Again - this is Lighters awesome art just tweaked a bit by myself - all credit goes to Lighter.

David House · Post by **David House** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:14 pm

Nalin wrote:A 'shopped version of LTS's nixmount.

I didn't ask permission from Lighter to butcher this piece but I'm hoping that in the interest of developing the nixmount and keeping this thread active Lighter won't mind.

All I've done with this is made the head and neck a bit more horsey (I couldn't resist slimming down the rider either).

[url=http://img683.imageshack.us/i/nixmountvariation.png/][img]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/2695/nixmountvariation.th.png[/img][/url]

Again - this is Lighters awesome art just tweaked a bit by myself - all credit goes to Lighter.

Im working on a model for this, and just wanted to know, whats the general triangle limit for morrowind?

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:42 pm

David House wrote:Im working on a model for this, and just wanted to know, whats the general triangle limit for morrowind?

Good to see you're enthusiastic but It's best to hold back a little and hear the general concensus before you go ahead and mesh it. I'm actually working on a concept of my own for the nixmount (inspired by this piece and the original nix CA). Meshing it now would stop the further development of it and could have us missing out on an even better nixmount in Morrowind.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:49 pm

it would be worth noting that, due to gameplay limitations, this creature probably actually would not be ridden. I don't know if that ought to or would affect the concept (both as a 'concept' and as 'concept art')

David House · Post by **David House** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:51 pm

Ok well ill halt work, I got a good base mesh down, with all proportions correct, and also, after some research I found that the characters in Morrowind (original) had a 5k tri count, so I figured considering people run better bodies just fine, and it is much better, I should say somewhere between 5k-20k, whats your input? (as in, have you found anything that says otherwise?)

Night0205 · Post by **Night0205** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 10:46 pm

Why wouldn't you be able to create a nix mount with a rider? The Riekling Raider works fine in Bloodmoon. Or does Tamriel Rebuilt not have the ability to mod to that extent? Otherwise, I don't know what the point of having a nix mount would be if there is no rider. There would be no point.

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:17 pm

By ride-able we mean the player can ride it. That is something that is not doable in the game, which means it's outside the scope of this project.

Night0205 · Post by **Night0205** » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:42 pm

Absolutely! I never even thought the intention of the nix mount was for the player. I just assumed it was for another creature. Which would be pretty cool if you can get it to work, being as there is only one mounted creature in Morrowind that I know of.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:48 pm

I meant it would be quite hard, to my knowledge, to animate a creature to have an NPC rider. I had forgotten about the Rieklings, but then you don't have to talk to them, nor are they as varied as the NPCs who might have cause to ride a presumably not uncommon creature.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:02 am

Well was there not a mod that added ridable horses? or was that for script extender only?

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:42 am

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:I meant it would be quite hard, to my knowledge, to animate a creature to have an NPC rider. I had forgotten about the Rieklings, but then you don't have to talk to them, nor are they as varied as the NPCs who might have cause to ride a presumably not uncommon creature.

Making the Rieklings a talkable NPC is easy; just check the box that says NPC instead of creature. Or something like that. Once you have the animated, textured, mesh in the game without bugs/crashing, it's very easy to choose whether to make it a creature or an NPC that you can talk to/add dialogue to.

Night0205 · Post by **Night0205** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:34 am

David House wrote:Well was there not a mod that added ridable horses? or was that for script extender only?

It's already been established that there will be no "ridable" anything for the player in Morrowind's Tamriel Rebuilt. Despite what can be done, also because it would be to big of task for TR's resources. At least this is what I've heard.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:48 am

it isn't because of how much work it is, it is because we don't do things that change gameplay mechanics.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:16 am

Okay, sounds good, so, whats next?

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:46 am

You could always attempt to show us your ideas for the creatures needing a redesign, mentioned in the first post.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:28 am

check, working on a base for one now. on that note, can someone provide a simple sketch of the side, top and front of the velk?

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 7:31 am

The name is all we had to go on when making all the concepts in this thread, really. No beth concept art exists for it, and none of the images in this thread have been definitively decided to be *the* velk. So it depends on what you want, really.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:25 am

How about you come up with a few concepts of your own David House. I remember the armour concept you came up with a while back and If I remember correctly you were given modder status on the back of your concept art skills.

Show us how you envision these creatures (and any other creatures you can come up with applicable to the topic).

btw - I remember asking your permission to "elaborate" on one of your concepts awhile back - If you update your CA thread then I'll post what I came up with there.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 2:20 pm

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 11:21 pm

Guess this is kind of a creature, It'll be a creature in-game at least. It's St.Nerevar in Necrom. I didn't want to create a new thread for this and hopefully this'll keep this thread alive and spark it up again.

[url=http://img215.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stnerevarconcept.png][img]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/643/stnerevarconcept.th.png[/img][/url]

The temple artwork for him leaves us with plenty of freedom for how we'll invisage his lower half if indeed we do choose to give him a lower half (IMO he should have some sort of lower half or he wouldn't fit with the other bonewalkers). Obviously this is a huge deal, It's fookin' Nerevar! However we choose to handle St.Nerevar he's going to have to be awesome otherwise the player is going to be very disappointed upon finding him.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:29 am

Really I'd like to make it a lesser bonewalker with a new head. I wanted to keep the head until I realized those ugly textures on it were actually a face and not skin woven together over a faceless cranium.

maybe lightly clothed, but conceptually the same

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:38 am

Speaking of mounted NPC's on Creatures, Although they can wait, those Dres Skyrenders need to be fixed. Hmm.. I think Dirnae was working on something actaully.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:15 am

Really I'd like to make it a lesser bonewalker with a new head. I wanted to keep the head until I realized those ugly textures on it were actually a face and not skin woven together over a faceless cranium.

maybe lightly clothed, but conceptually the same

Well, I could take care of the model. But then it needed to be now or tomorrow at the latest cause my holidays are ending Wednesday.

Otherwise Nalin would be the guy for it, I'd guess.

[img]http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/875/swamptroll2.th.jpg[/img]

^^nearly finished.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:57 am

Speaking of Dirnae, where the hell did he go?

Anyway, great sketch Nalin. Looks cool.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:06 am

I think he studys alot, but he hasnt been here since the start of September

, I hope he comes back though.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:06 am

He's been gone for a long time. He's around the BGSF though. I think he said something about wanting to improve his skills before working for us again, but I might have been hallucinating.

Point is, he isn't here.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:34 am

Personally I'd say that if Nerevar ends up as little more than a bonewalker retex, it doesn't really do the concept justice.

David House · Post by **David House** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:20 pm

Well, you know, we could fix having the problem of not wanting a complete remake and just wanting a retex by making the various body parts, and making several of each, picking one of each and useing bridge commands in the various 3d modeling programs, to combine them, heres an example, sorry for the crappy quality, its just a example.
[url]http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5798/headgraf.png[/url]

It would take some time, but if we didn't like the body, and just liked the original you could always drop the body, or the legs, just think that would add allot more options.

PS: on that note im gonna start on a good head.

brianbusby · Post by **brianbusby** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 6:47 pm

I drew these before the consensus was made to draw it like a lesser bonewalker so i guess they might be useless but they were inspired by Nalin's stuff, I just threw in some variation and a couple new ideas...

[url=http://img294.imageshack.us/i/scan0002jcopy.jpg/][img]http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/2866/scan0002jcopy.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:43 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:Personally I'd say that if Nerevar ends up as little more than a bonewalker retex, it doesn't really do the concept justice.

any animated corpse can be a zombie. only a bonewalker can be a bonewalker.

blackbird · Post by **blackbird** » Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:14 pm

I was thinking more about a bonewalker with some clothes like a robe (cfr bonelord or lich) or a shirt. I don't know if my idea is good.