[Morrowind] Public Feedback

[Lady Nerevar]

Eh, ignoring the fact that the RAI that was coded did not end up in OB, it is still not a bad system. Especially in comparison to MW...

[blackbird]

On the book: Morrowind was destroyed in the eyes & point of view of Greg Keyes.

Elsewise: The name of this website implies that you are rebuilding Tamriel. Why not rename to Morrowind Rebuilt?
Retroactive continuity: Was committed by Greg Keyes, not Bethdesda softworks. I dont take the book for cannon for that very reason. Until Bethdesda Softworks makes it official (Announcs Morrowind as destroyed in a sequel game or online)I consider it chicken feed)

Edited - removed double post - Nemon

What was to happen to Morrowind was known before Keyes was ever contacted. He didn't have anything to do with it.

I believe Morrowind would be destroyed anyway. Some people are suggesting Micheal Kikrbride's text 'Loveletter from the 5th era' is an important clue that Morrowind would have been destroyed anyway. You can't call MK a fanfic!

[arvisrend]

LadyN: Sorry for being offtopic, but Oblivion calls whatever AI system it is using "Radiant AI". It was obviously not as mature as the one used in FO3, but both have serious problems when it comes to customizability (for mods) and reliability (for more complicated quests). Typical problem of Oblivion's Radiant AI: an NPC is supposed to do something (activate some object, talk to some other actor, trigger some trap) but is sidetracked by some enemy attacking him. After the fight is over, he has totally forgotten where he was going and what he wanted to do. And then there are beggars running berserk, companions mysteriously appearing whenever one gets out of jail, NPCs not following you into a different cell because you got there before they did, etc. And the utterly idiotic NPC dialogues. Fallout 3 features townsfolk getting killed by creatures in the wilderness, leading to the whole town attacking the player (apparently believing the player killed their friend). And incredibly unreliable NPC pathfiding (to an extent that one can't help exploiting it to fight hard enemies). The problem with the AI system are not these bugs. The problem is that it is hard or just impossible for a modder to fix them. A script may be buggy but a modder can just correct it. The AI system is just there whether one wants it or not, and all one can do is set a few flags and write a couple of conditions. In Nehrim we would have preferred to be able to switch all combat AI for some NPCs off during the horseride passage, but there is no such possibility in the CS. Similarly, there is no way to tell Dad in FO3 to just fly to Rivet City if he is so stupid that he runs into an irradiated lake and can't decide which way to go. (Except for typing tcl, but that doesn't work in a script.)

There is an unwritten rule in programming that if you are coding something unreliable, then at least make it easy to avoid/disable/ignore. This cannot be said about the TES AI engines. I am just saying that not everything made by Bethesda is a paragon of quality. Since TES4 they don't seem to care much about lore either, so why should they with Infernal City?

A propos Loveletter: do we know for sure that Landfall = destruction of MW; or just destruction of Vivec City and some fallout (or whatever) over the rest of the land?

[Lady Nerevar]

The RAI was heavily toned down shortly before OB's release because it was a bit too radiant (NPCs stealing from each other and ending up in jail, etc.). Is it perfect? Hell no. But I find it much easier to use and much more immersive than MW's option of stand around/walk around AI. I can also guarantee you that they didn't hire someone to code shitty AI - thats just how it turned out, for one reason or another.

Lore is a whole different matter, but suffice it to say that neither Oblivion nor IFC are as horribly lore breaking as people say. Each game breaks its predecessors lore, the only time we care is when it broke things we liked or failed to please in other areas.

I've never said that Bethesda games are perfect.

[Haplo]

(NPCs stealing from each other and ending up in jail, etc.)

This would have made Oblivion so much better...

[Thrignar Fraxix]

A propos Loveletter: do we know for sure that Landfall = destruction of MW; or just destruction of Vivec City and some fallout (or whatever) over the rest of the land?

I seem to recall that the destruction was caused by the ministry of truth resuming its path towards nirn at its old velocity. I'm not 100% sure if the entire province would be destroyed, but I can say for certain that a lot more than vivec would be gone.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Re: loveletter, the idea that Landfall might only take out Morrowind was seen as a climbdown by some people. The initial interpretation was that it would take out all of Tamriel.

[Haplo]

Re: loveletter, the idea that Landfall might only take out Morrowind was seen as a climbdown by some people. The initial interpretation was that it would take out all of Tamriel.

That seems like a very stupid, pointless and unrealistic outcome... assuming it's referring to the Ministry of Truth resuming it's initial velocity.

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

well it's referring to the loveletter. But take your criticisms to the lore-folk, not me.

[Howling_Snail]

I only got Morrowind last December, but Morrowind was one of the first mods that I downloaded. Having heard so much about you, I had high expectations. I was NOT let down. The sheer extent of the content involved in Maps 1 and 2 are incredible, and even though I've not explored it all (I'll admit I've not done much in the wilderness), I find it unlikely that I'll find anything I won't like. It's really encouraged me to get into modding, and in fact my first mod is going to be on Map 1. Maybe one day I'll get involved, when I've had some more experience, and then I can say "Look at that masterpiece. I helped with that." Truly amazing guys.

[greenland360]

I have been looking around on the internet and found some of the land with better tree mods and I was wondering, if I want those tree mods in the tamriel rebuilt maps what do I do and in what order exactly.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

if they are replacers, then you don't have to do anything, they will replace them naturally. If they aren't, then you would have to individually replace every instance of those trees.

[Nemon]

Using the Morrowind Construction Set, there's an option to "search&replace" items. If you load our maps, find the tree you want to replace, click it, open the s&r dialogue box and untick whatever two options you find there and then choose which tree you want to replace it with -> every single instance of the tree in the entire world map will be replaced. I think.

[tkl7]

Hi, first of all thank you for all the hard work you have put into this beautiful mod.

I was exploring the Boethian Mountains area and found the NPC Brevales Girano who attacked on sight. I thought this was odd because she was completely unarmed and upon checking the info given on the UESP wiki, her fight is set at 30 and she is a memeber of the Tribunal Temple faction, of which my character is also a member. Is the UESP info incorrect?

[Why]

That's strange, her fight settings are still 30 in my files and there's nothing that indicates they change at all. Are you sure you didn't attack her?

[tkl7]

No, I didn't. I approached without my weapon drawn and as soon as I was in her line of sight, she ran at me and cast a drain stamina spell. Then she proceeded to pummel me with her bare fists. I just started playing this mod, so I doubt I had done anything to offend her prior to encountering her in the wilderness. I am going to try to approach again from the previous save.

Is she hostile to Imperials?

[Theo]

If her attack is defaulted to 30 it simply must be altered by some script. A lot of map 1 NPCs had scripts on them changing their attack values based on NPC level and stuff. You may encounter this problem more often.

[arvisrend]

Yes, she falsely had this script in the TR_map1.esm file. I say "had" because this has been fixed (apparently long ago) in the internal Mainland ESM, and thus will no longer be an issue once Sacred East is out. Thanks for reporting it, nevertheless.

[tkl7]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll try to avoid her in the meantime.

[tkl7]

OK, another issue. I downloaded the Map 4 Alpha, and when I start Morrowind, I get all kinds of error messages having to do with missing dialogue having to do with Telvanni Islands, and also a couple of errors about somebody missing a pauldron, etc. I assume that this is because of the different TR_data for the Alpha, and should be corrected once I replace it with the original? I have both TR_map1 and tr_map2 also loaded.

[Why]

This should indeed be because of conflicting TR_Data versions. The Telvannis and Antediluvian Secrets files should be loaded with the version of TR_Data that came with them, we can't guarantee those old files will work with newer versions of TR_Data. You might get all sorts of horrible errors and crashes. You might also be just fine. I don't know. Better to err on the side of caution and use the TR_Data that was provided with the TR_Map1 and TR_Map2 files.

Just to be clear - our internal files are constantly updated, and our next release will contain both all the old Telvannis and Antediluvian Secret content, as well as the new land and NPCs that come with Sacred East and an updated version of TR_Data to support all that. So don't worry about incompatibilities between files in our next release. It may or may not be fully compatible with the Map 4 Alpha though, but since that file uses no NPCs or scripts, the errors that you will get from loading M4Alpha along with the files from our next release should be fairly inconsequential.

[tkl7]

Thanks, that's what I thought. I would guess that it would be a lot more problematic to explore the Map 4 Apha with the old (Maps 1 & 2) TR_data files, since I would probably be missing some textures, etc that were not in the current one?

[Why]

The thing is, there's a possibility for errors within scripts because of removed/renamed references, and that has the possibility of going horribly wrong. We didn't just add things to TR_Data, we removed and renamed quite a few objects too. I'd advise against using the old TR_Map files with the new TR_Data. But yes, you would be missing meshes in the M4 alpha file if you used the old TR_Data for that. They're not really meant to be played in the same session. Of course, I'm not going to stop you from trying. I know I probably would, myself. But the possibility for errors exists, and I can't tell how severe they will be. It's really quite likely that everything turns out fine. But if it all goes go horribly wrong and your processor starts to melt down, don't blame us.

[tkl7]

Well, I just loaded it to give it a quick exploration, so I haven't saved any games, which is where I think the problems would really start. Any chance the Alpha, exterior only, will be integrated into the Sacred East release?

[Why]

I doubt it, but running it alongside our Sacred East files should be fine, because the M4 alpha file contains no scripts, dialog or NPCs.

I'll ask those in charge if we can release an updated M4 Alpha file that works with the new TR_Data. No guarantees though - we're fairly busy lining everything up for SE already and we're on a really tight schedule right now.

[tkl7]

Thanks for the clarification. I can certainly understand that time is tight right now.

[roerich]

Just some gratitude for your work.

I recently got the Map 4 Alpha, and boy am I having fun! I feel like a kid who's been let into a brand new theme park all by himself, but can't ride any of the rollercoasters yet. Everything is just so damn exciting and beautiful, and I can't wait to see it populated and with interiors and quests.

A big thank you from a huge fan.

[SillySymphonies]

Hello.

Critical fan giving some feedback and expressing gratitude for this feat of yours.

I downloaded Sacred East the day it was released and have been exploring it for a bit since then in my spare time. Just reached the summit at Tomaril manor, and the magnificent view from there prompted me to write this post.

Entering Indoril lands at Ayamar, standards seem to have gone way up since Telvannis and Antediluvian Secrets (not that those were bad, far from, but Sacred East just seems of such a higher standard). Sacred East reminds me of the opening cinematic of Game Of Thrones: a grand and raw, rugged landscape, dotted with fantastic yet plausible and not too outlandish settlements. Raw and rugged, except for the Lan Orethan that is: it feels like idyllic JRPG countryside - Ghibli Hills is the term they use over at tvtropes.

I appreciate the little touches, like how most all citizens of Sacred East have individualized 'background' and 'my trade' conversation topics. Though Sacred East often even surpasses Bethesda's orginal Vvardenfell standards, it still integrates seamlessly with the original game - it doesn't feel 'moddy' at all (I hope you understand what I'm trying to express here). By the way, is it just me, or did you take some design cues from Skyrim (which is a good thing)? The Hlersis mine for example, especially the grand lake with the mine proper, struck me as particularly Skyrimesque.

Some more specific feedback (aka nitpicking):
- a bog is a peat accumulating wetland, not just any wetland.
- the inlet bog isn't bad per se, but it seems rather lackluster, uninspired and substandard compared to the rest of Sacred East.
- what happened to the Moth And Fire in Necrom (from Incident In Necrom)? Or did I just happen to overlook it?
- your creature models are of widely varying quality: some are sublime (ornada, vermai), some mediocre (didrea) and some just stick out like a sore thumb (Mephala statue (rather undynamic), swampfly (insects don't look like that)).
- the Indoril guards are all wearing chuzei armor (love the unique design!), but not all are wearing chuzei helmets. Or is that intentional?
- the gong sound is rather muffled and unclear, which makes it stand out from all the other sounds in the game, which are clear, unmuffled recordings.
- I like it how you mixed different architectural sets, without making the result seem 'moddy'. Zanammu is an example of this.
- though you make a distinction between the original game's Hlaalu/Redoran/Telvanni clothing, you don't seem to make a distinction between the original game's tribe-specific Ashlander clothing. Example:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Base_Clothing#Shirts
The shirts marked with a/e/u/z are Ahemmusa/Erabenimsun/Urshilaku/Zainab specific shirts respectively. Just like Hlaalu/Redoran/Telvanni shirts are marked with h(h)/r(r)/t(t) respectively.

My apologies for the nitpicking: I don't mean to dishearten you, just trying to give some honest feedback to help you improve Tamriel Rebuilt even more (though I sure hope we don't have to wait another four years for a major release). But these are all just minor issues: all in all, this Sacred East expansion is the best expansion I've seen for Morrowind, period. Yes, even better than Tribunal or Bloodmoon! I mean, I have only Sacred East and Connary's textures, no other mods, and it is all still a feast for the eyes.

Thank you.

PS Why isn't the Guest account available anymore, like in the days when Antediluvian Secrets was first released?

[Mwgek]

Thanks for feedback.

- the inlet bog isn't bad per se, but it seems rather lackluster, uninspired and substandard compared to the rest of Sacred East.

I don't have a problem with that area. Since not every inch of TR gameworld can be super grand, that is not the case in real world either. Some places are more standard and others are super special.

- your creature models are of widely varying quality: some are sublime (ornada, vermai), some mediocre (didrea) and some just stick out like a sore thumb (Mephala statue (rather undynamic), swampfly (insects don't look like that)).

Some models in our Data are old and maybe a bit dated. It is hard for a mod like TR to get skilled modellers. Animators are even more uncommon. This is something that, hopefully, will be fixed in the future.

- the gong sound is rather muffled and unclear, which makes it stand out from all the other sounds in the game, which are clear, unmuffled recordings.

There are new sounds on the way... The gong is one of them.

[Andres Indoril]

Hello, SillySymphonies! I will reply a little as well.

By the way, is it just me, or did you take some design cues from Skyrim (which is a good thing)? The Hlersis mine for example, especially the grand lake with the mine proper, struck me as particularly Skyrimesque.

While I will take that as a compliment, I made Hlersis in 2006. Did not know that Skyrim was in the making back then. Was it even in making back then?

- what happened to the Moth And Fire in Necrom (from Incident In Necrom)? Or did I just happen to overlook it?

Incident In Necrom is a fictional book, displaying a Necrom as imagined by someone never having been to Necrom. Probably an Imperial, who thought the Dunmer had cemeteries.

- the Indoril guards are all wearing chuzei armor (love the unique design!), but not all are wearing chuzei helmets. Or is that intentional?

I remember complaining about this as well, so I have no input as to why this is as is.

[tkl7]

I like the inlet bog. It looks very nice, is different enough from the bitter coast to be distinct, and doesn't hit the FPS badly.

[Haplo]

I will say that the Inlet Bog is one of our less-inspired locations. We do hope to bring it to life, per se, some time in the future.

As for guest posting, we had too much spam from them.

[Nomadic1]

... except for the Lan Orethan that is: it feels like idyllic JRPG countryside - Ghibli Hills is the term they use over at tvtropes.

Hmm... I don't know if I've been complemented or insulted.

- what happened to the Moth And Fire in Necrom (from Incident In Necrom)? Or did I just happen to overlook it?

Truthfully, I don't know why an inn or something isn't named that (note: haven't checked but can't recall ever seeing it). The book may have been a work of fiction in a world of fiction, but there is a certain pleasure to be had finding the places mentioned in text and dialogue.

- the Indoril guards are all wearing chuzei armor (love the unique design!), but not all are wearing chuzei helmets. Or is that intentional?

I think that was the intention. Adds a little more variety to the mix.

- I like it how you mixed different architectural sets, without making the result seem 'moddy'. Zanammu is an example of this.

Zanammu is one of my favourite places in TR for that reason.

My apologies for the nitpicking: I don't mean to dishearten you, just trying to give some honest feedback to help you improve Tamriel Rebuilt even more (though I sure hope we don't have to wait another four years for a major release). But these are all just minor issues: all in all, this Sacred East expansion is the best expansion I've seen for Morrowind, period. Yes, even better than Tribunal or Bloodmoon! I mean, I have only Sacred East and Connary's textures, no other mods, and it is all still a feast for the eyes.

There's nothing wrong with a good nitpick. It makes things better in the end.

[Ultimamage]

I have been going through the mainland and am thoroughly enjoying it. Aside from a couple of minor typos, there is not much to comment on. However I have noticed that there is an error when trying to enter the Vaults bellow the Council Chambers in Port Telvannis.

The error is:

Model Load Error
Meshes\TR\TR_Vermai_VO.NIF cannot load file in Meshes\TR\TR_Vermai_VO.NIF

Creature "TR_m1_Vermai_PT0000000000" has no animation groups

Creature "TR_m1_Vermai_PT0000000001" has no animation groups

I have only received this error with the current .esm. The Map1 file had no issues entering that particular cell.

Again keep up the good work, if I get the time to dedicate I might consider joining your efforts.

[arvisrend]

Ultimamage, that was already reported (and fixed in our internal version), but thank you.

[TheCatLord]

Greetings!

Due to the severity of the issues I have outlined and nobody reacting in any way, I am re-posting this here in the hope that somebody would look into these:

I'm concerned about the cleanliness and mod compatibility of the project's dialogue. The dialogue would be much more mod-friendly with a single insertion point in their respective section instead of multiple - especially bad with at least the service refusal in the persuasion tab - effectively making it incompatible with any other mod that alters the same area of dialogue. Additionally, multiple topics, greeting sections, even the persuasion tab responses have been added at the very top and/or bottom of the section which might cause errors with other mods. You can find about this from Emma's Comprehensive Dialogue for Morrowind (google it, I don't want to put a direct link since I'm not affiliated or advertising - you are in the right place if your screen is very green): scroll down to "THREAD BY JOG CONCERNING CLEAN MODS" - the issues outlined there apply to all sections and topics of dialogue, not just the greetings. Final thing I'd like to point out: I noticed at least one dialogue entry that had nothing but cell as a restriction to who will say it - might be a problem if a companion or other NPC is brought into the said cell. It could be further restricted to say, a class or something. I saw it in an eggmine - restrict to class Miner and Guard? An example, I don't remember the details there.

Overall, the best and only way to fix the cleanliness and compatibility issues: a single insertion point for the dialogue in each of the sections/topics and not at the very top or bottom of that section/topic. Also, arvisrend on the official chat suggested: "It needs to be fixed with a hex editor, but it's not that easy because an empty NNAM has a different length than a NNAM with an actual ID."

[arvisrend]

We aren't that fast, and we haven't forgot your post. It's just that it's not very clear how to fix this right now, as there are lots and lots of replies to be moved.

[RandomAvatarFan]

I've finished all available quests for Telvanni, ending with Master Mithras' saga in Ranyon-Ruhn. I was really impressed with the intercity of the politics, trying to petition the Parliament of Bugs, having Rathra working against you every step of the way. It was so much fun, and it's just like the way it works back on Vvardenfell- everyone is only looking after themselves.

The cities are absolutely stunning, and beautiful, especially the Telvanni Towers, but even Necrom and Akamora are beautiful. The Riverstriders look awesome, and I love their cry, because they, just like the goal of the mod, seem similar enough to the original but completely new in their own right.

I've also taken the liberty to walk all the way from Firewatch down to the bottom of the map on the road to Almalexia, however a few things bothered me the biggest was:

Road Signs. Sometimes roads split off, and there aren't any indication which path you should continue to take. There are also some roads which take some hard turns but are easy to miss. I get to Helnim, saw a set of signs pointing towards Necrom, and I didn't see another for quite some time. I had past Tel Muthada at this point, got out of the Helnim Fields and into the Boethian/Mephalain Mountains, and there's a signpost with nothing on it. The path splits up with no indication on where to go. Ended up getting attacked by "Roamers" in their hideout high up in the mountains.

Even if it splits off into a backroad that isn't usually used, make sure at least the main route is marked. There are quite a few places where roadsigns would make sense (outside Tel Muthada, the Inn Between etc.)

I really can't wait until Almalexia is released and the Scared Lands are quested. The mod itself is a wonder and a piece of art in its own right, and I can really tell that all of you have really put your heart into it.

[RandomAvatarFan]

Thanks for addressing it! With a mod such as this, it's really cool to just explore. With vanilla Morrowind I can't stand having to walk even across town, but there are a lot of really neat landscapes in TR that you can't just miss, and it's definitely one of the highlights for TR. The Sacred East is the most beautiful in my opinion in respects to landscapes and cities!

[Numenorean]

What do you think about to add a "yes/no choice" to the TR_BoTs-Scripts? I really enjoy reading the texts, and the idea of spell books is neat too, but the spell list is already full and confusing enough. Even if my char's intelligence exceeds 50, a Redoran warrior has no use for, let's say, a "Detect Key" spell -