Bards Guild

[Quentin Fortune]

Hey, hey, hey, folks.

Don't go at war about a guild that is supposed to deal with entertainment. (Admitted, there are people for whom war is entertainment ... *sigh* )

Nevertheless, I'm quite sure things will turn out fine for our little pet ( "Bards united! Bards united!" ) and I think the existence of a college of bards is a good base for the assumption that there could/should be a guild for them as well. (I'm quite willing to argue that with anyone who stands between me and a Bard's Guild "Bards united! Bards united!" )

Anyway, I will have the first poem from the list ready by tomorrow. My question: where should I post it? Here? Make a new thread at ... at which board? Please tell me.

And wererat, not bad, but guess with what else it rhymes?

Greetings

Quentin

[Katse]

Well, no bloody offence, but what the hell is the use to have a vote to see if the faction is wanted if no one is going to listen to the results? Shouldn't these types of decisions be left up to the quest/faction reviewers after the people on the forums decide if they want to see it in the mod or not? And why is it they can make decisions on something like a faction so damn fast but we're all still waiiting to hear when and if we can help out in any way?

Katse

[Arcadea]

no Offence takin and it hasn;t been fully decide it's just they don't seem to care enough on ether topic the only reasen they are now voting for the reviewrs is because I'm pushing realy hard but I'll be leaving soon so i can't push for the bards.

[Hermit]

:/

Maybe, when the new reviewers are finally announced, we could ask one of them to support our cause? Also, if there's a quest reviewer team formed (I think the votes will be on which primary field the reviewers will review in, too?), at least we would have someone we could work this out with.

And, if all fails, I vote for developing the bards guild, in all deatil, nonetheless, as a bolt-on, and reserving some NPCs in all cities that will be commoners in the TR basic files but be changed to bards by the bolt-on. I love this idea too much to let it die that way, and judging from the votes, many people like it, too, so the work would be appreciated anyway.

Quentin: we should open a poetry thread in custom objects, dedicated to Morrowind poetry. There's one for fiction (that would be fictional fiction ) and non-fiction (actually, it's fiction too, but what the hell). And anyone who feels like developing IN-GAME, IN-Lore poetry would be invited to post their stuff there.

[Katse]

I'd like to see the selection of factions be a bit more democratic and be left for the forum members, then the quest reviewers, to decide. What's the point of quest/faction reviewers if the admin decides all that in advance?

This faction is going to exist, one way or the other. I'll definitely help out in the poetry writing--I'm good at writing lyrics, I just have no musical talent to put music with them.

Katse

[Arcadea]

were not going to even have enough reviewrs to form teams like were sappose to. This what I told Koth would happen but he only wants 2-3 new reviewrs yet that doesn't even bring us back to full strength not even close. and no your not making it a bolt on. It still would go through the core if it is just latter on and it's better to get this done now.

[Hermit]

Hey, I found something very very interesting! Take a look! I found this -> [url]http://us.f1f.yahoofs.com/bc/62d309ce/bc/Morrowind+Mods/Equipable+Lutes.zip?BCt6X4_A_J7W3Jia[/url] on ladyE's boards. I love her forum, it's such a source of unique, quality and free stuff!

That's even further towards our goal of equippable and playabe instruments (it's only the luten granted, but, well, it's a good start, isn't it? If we can use LadyE's animations to do this to other instruments such as drums, we'll be (almost) there!

All we'd need then is a lyte including animations, and of course, sounds.

The lute is, as far as I understand it, a weapon type item. We'll propably not get around this, but we can have it do area effect attacks that center around the bards, can we? That attacks would then do things like charm, detect stuff, rally, or even poison, evweryone save the PC, which must be excluded. Would mean some serious scripting, but it will be wo´rth it, I think. Also, each 'spell' attached to an instrument should produce a unique melody, as in the bard playing enchanting songs.



Wow. I'm really starting to think we have a chance to o this mod exactly in the way I hoped for.

[Quentin Fortune]

Originally posted by Katse
I'd like to see the selection of factions be a bit more democratic and be left for the forum members, then the quest reviewers, to decide. What's the point of quest/faction reviewers if the admin decides all that in advance?

I think this a nice addition to my question above. What is this poll about? I wish somebody could answer Katse's and mine questions

This faction is going to exist, one way or the other.

Yeah, that's the spirit. (What? Who? How do you get the idea that I'm obsessed with this guild? Just because I carry a lute and a drum, sing songs and actually am a bard?)

I'll definitely help out in the poetry writing--I'm good at writing lyrics, I just have no musical talent to put music with them.

Katse

Maybe we can work on that together, your lyrics, my music.

"And if there're those
who will oppose
they soon will become frightened

For our cry
will make them shy:
"United, Bards, United!"

Greetings

Quentin

[Quentin Fortune]

Hermit,

thank you again. :bounce: Excellent news.

Unfortunately all my attempts to find those playable lutes I spoke before have been futile, so this is a big step forward.

I just had an idea BTW:

since bards, writers and poets are given some kind of 'immortality' through their works (please don't take immortality literally ) there is only one pair of weapons that can definitely and permanently kill a bard - the nefarious 'Bretony Spears'.

Their screeching sound paralyzes every true bard within ear-range (which is quite far) and a thrust will turn you in a trembling piece of helpless human flesh.

Greetings

Quentin

[Quentin Fortune]

Oh dear,

unfortunately I had to delay the work on the first poem, "Inkkit Hinkit" since I made the big mistake to search around for both words in the internet and, guess what, I found 'Hinkit' on a lot of various finnish websites. My finnish is somewhat rudimantary and all of the online translation tools I tried couldn't help we with it.

So, my question: any one around here, who actually speaks finnish? or has a real good translation program? or just knows what hinkit means?

There is a suspicion rising that the title of this poem could be some crude joke.

Greetings

Quentin

P.S.: if the translation is unsuitable for people under-age, please send me a PM. Thanks

Quentin

Edit: :weep: Alarm off. I found it. :bash: this is ridiculous. :mchm:

Okay, I'll continue ... and it is a crude joke.

Quentin

[Hermit]

I'll continue my quest. In fact, I'll continue to browse the web for anything usable for TR, especially instruments, flora, and buildings (also critters, but I think I've hit a gold mine there, I've just to be admitted to that damned forum of puma-man's and we will have a ton of (hopefully) good real-life animals to toy with. PM says it's more than a hundred )

And I really like that song!

"... united, bards, united ..." (walks of humming and singing)

[Quentin Fortune]

That song is catchy, heh?

I appreciate your perilous journey, trying to retrieve unknown treasures, but I just sent you a PM on a certain topic, which has become one of my pet peeves during the last weeks.

Greetings

Quentin

[Arcadea]

anything you guys get now has to be aproved bye the Core. Sorry no way around this.

[Hermit]

Does the core do anything about this, do they even care? not a single one of them has posted here as of yet. Thus, we'll continue to have our ideas spread out here.

I thought abot the lute being a blunt weapon. It would either be wielded as such, or, if magic was activated (this would be tough scripting), the usual magic anims would be overrun by anims - we (hopefully) could come up with one way or another - that show the lute as being played (this would apply only to bard-specific). Also, you might be able to learn songs that act as spells (area Effect, centered on the PC), or just songs (spells that have no effect, for scripting purposes. You'd be given a coice of songs if you activate the 'song' spell; you can learn new songs either by performing quests for master singers or by reading certain song books or even by service to deities.

What do y'all think of this?

[Arcadea]

the only part of the core who even nows is myself and Koth and were having mny debats over this topic.

[Quentin Fortune]

Ceterum censeo, conciliationem poetarum condendam esse.

Great ideas, Hermit, especially since all string instruments make remarkable blunt weapons. (Everybody who was ever hit by a double bass knows what I'm talking about )

The invention of the Electric Guitar was based on the fact that musicians with instruments made of metal (horns, trumpets and the like) had an unfair advantage when it came to durability. Thus led to the solid wooden corpus, which, as you all might guess, was a drawback in sound and - foremost - volume.

What I would like to see on lutes is some kind of 'area charming spell' which allows the bard to get safe out of tavern brawls ... this idea could be spiced up with a 'deaf' NPC, who just doesn't fall for it.

Carry on

* ... united, Bards, united ...*

Greetings

Quentin

[Hermit]

Actually, I had the following in mind for songs:

There should be several songs a bard can learn. They would be put in three different cathegories: Common, rare and divine.

Comon songs are either learned via songbooks or automatically on advancement (each new rank brings an new song). They should not possess magical capabilities (and not appear as spells), but only be usable for our expansion of the entertainers plugin.

Rare songs are to be learned by either completing quests for the college of bards elders (in Skyrim), by questing for grandmasters of song (like all other grand masters, they prefer isolated spots in the wilderness to dwell), or by reading ancient tomes you propably have to locate by following clues scattered through various books, or by killing the owner. Rare songs are both spells and entertainers' songs and spells, appear in both menus, and demand certain attruibutes and skills at a certain minimum to be performed. Effects that might be included in rare song spells are: charm, rally, turn undead, sanctuary, that kind of stuff; purely support-oriented.

Divine songs are a special blessing by Morrowind's deities to bards. They are very hard to obtain, as the deities will test the bard thoroughly before blessing them with such songs. When performing the song, the bard is performing powerful magic, on par with the most powerful spells. They can only be performed once a day, as the gods will not see their blessings used lightly. Their effects can be to destroy all undead in a wide area, summon three daedra at once, or cover an entire area in all engulfing flames. To obtain all or - some - these songs might even be nescessary to become head of the bards guild.

Now for more serious stuff. If the core have concerns about this idea, then I'd expect them to step forward and discuss this with those affected (me, Katse, Quentin), either on this thread or via PM, instead of keeping you concerns to yourself and never even ask for our opinions on this. I'm interested in their concerns, and I would like to be able to defend/adapt my idea, istead of wait for ages to finaly be rejected and not even know why. I hope you understand this. It is not that I want to question the mods and admins authority in any way, but I think fairness would require for the bards' guild members to be able to defend their ideas.

Anyway, I'll continue browsing the web for mod stuff. I'm not only collecting for my personal projects, but generally, for OOT, COT and misc stuff I think would fit well into TR. Since I'm not much of a modeler, that's my way to contribute to TR's object fundus.

[Quentin Fortune]

Ceterum censeo, conciliationem poetarum condendam esse.

Good thinking, man. :goodjob:

I especially like the idea of the divine songs and maybe their usage should be even restricted to once per week, but this is negotiable.

And about the creation of the Bard's Guild in general, you got my full support. Again I'm coming back to the question, "what was this post about?" I'm coming back to Katse's question, "but what [...] is the use to have a vote to see if the faction is wanted if no one is going to listen to the results?"
I would have been fair, at least, to get any comment on it.
I was a bit ... disturbed by Arcadea's remark
"the only part of the core who even nows is myself and Koth" ... sorry, but it is the most discussed topic on the Portal Page with 56 replies and a word or two in between wouldn't have hurt.

Maybe this is a good opportunity to get things straight about the implementation of new factions, the use of polls and the way of decisions. I got the impression that there is a deficiancy of understanding and explanation which should be settled to avoid further arguments like this.

*... united, Bards, united ...*

Greetings

Quentin

[Arcadea]

trust me this will take awile to get things right. I had to PM every one of the core to get the vote on the revewrs that's why it took so long.

[RaJevir]

I vote that the Bard's should be joinable since if the player wants to be a bard, we should let them . Provided that we do the quests well, there should be no real problems, even if the player can't actually play music.

[Rodan]

I've finally got a look at this topic (so much to do so little time). I did vote 'yes' for one and also offer an interior in BL for one of the factions of this guild (a tavern maybe? (Blue Gull, Silver Cup)).

[Greybeard]

I voted "yes" - but I'd join it only if I get to play real music on a phat lute. BTW, couldn't the instruments be put in a glove slot or something similar rather than as a weapon? Then you wouldn't have to kill your audience

[Hermit]

Well, I'd voete against the lute being a piece of armour because that might affect the way the bard dresses up, which (in my vision at least) is going to be an important factor in this guild (those clothing classes finally get a raison d'etre). And I'd vote for blunt weapon because this is the closest thing in TR's weapon sortiment to an instrument. However, I'd give it 0 Attack and no range, so that noone is struck if I play my lute right before them. However, if it could fill the, say, chestplate slot (bards will be barred from wearing armour anyway during performances), that would be possible. As long as you still have three buttons to produce music .

[Cep]

Well you guys know me its a yes vote for sure. Rodan I think its important you take a look at my thread about guilds and factions. Might releive some tension if an Admin could make a comment.

[sterio]

I think the bards guild is a great idea, it will ad a lot more variety to the quests there are (not just running around or killing somebody..). It will be among the hardest guilds to make as it is different from anything already in the game, but with the skills of the people that work on TR, it is definatly do-able.

[Greybeard]

It doesn't seem that the scripting should be too hard. I regularly put scripts on NPCs that changes their clothes according to the weather. Putting a script on an instrument that checks for the Player's level or ability and whether it's equipped and then playing an appropriate tune is very do-able.

[RaJevir]

I think that, if we can manage handleing the animations, we should put the instrument in the weapon slot. It would count as two handed, since it would be rather diffucult to hold a shield and play an instrument at the same time Also, each type of "attack" could cause you to play a different set of notes, ect. Animations could be a real problem, as charecter animations are based off a base animation for all humanoid (or Khajiit of Argonian) NPCs.

As for wearing armor during a performance, it may or may not be appropriate, depending on the nature of your particular performance.

[Hermit]

Ra'Jevir, can't we use the animations LadyE made for her musican 'creatures'? They're somewhere in this thread. If we could, it would solve that problem, at least for lutes and drums.

[prometheus]

why not to join it ?

i vote yes

[Hermit]

ATTENTION ALL BARDS!!!

Hermit has been looting EuroMorrowind lately, and LOOK WHAT HERMIT HAS FOUND!

I haven't tested this as of yet, but if this works, well, most of our problems are solved!










:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[Quentin Fortune]

SSSSSSSSSSTTRRRRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIKE!

Excellent! I truly hope you're testing it already.

And, if it works, do tell, do tell, do tell. :bounce:

Greetings

Quentin

[Geowulf]

Quentin, are you still working on those song lyrics?

[Quentin Fortune]

Yes, I am, but it's going very slow, since I had some turbulous times and my job has become even more time-consuming (service time expanded by two additional hours).

But I will try to get some of them ready asap.

Sorry for being so quite about it ... and about my other work as well, seems that we're living in interesting times ... at least I do ...

Greetings

Quentin

[Hermit]

Check [url=http://forum.silgrad.com/board.php?boardid=94&sid=30c636cfff4828196af93ecd1eec1043]the Raven's Stage[/url] for examples, and [url=http://forum.silgrad.com/thread.php?threadid=2005&boardid=18&styleid=5&sid=30c636cfff4828196af93ecd1eec1043]this thread[/url] for additional comments on this.

In short: Yes, he is.

[Quentin Fortune]

Hehe, my personal PR-guy ... but the lyrics I posted there are not to be used in ST, TR or any Morrowind related part ... this is a rock song ...

Greetings

Quentin

P.S.: Paul says thanks for the cheap advertizing

[Hermit]

Paul's welcome, as long as I get my ... whatever this yellow stuff is.