Worsas' Creatures <internal thread>

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:09 pm

For me the creature looked like it was not really hitting me, even when only downscaled to 0.85 which is what I have tested myself. If you really plan to make him smaller, I will have to alter the attack-animations according to that.

One advantage, of course, is that the creature will less likely get stuck when downscaled. I don't agree about this creature being out-of-scale as is, nevertheless. There are a number of creatures that are even larger. Not to mention the increase of ugly fast-paced-ness a downscale will mean.

I don't want to be bull-headed or anything, but I just don't love the idea of downscaling this creature. I like the feeling when standing in front of such a majestic creature (having to look up too), which is a role, this creature can fill quite well imo. Having it human-size will make it a lot less interesting.

I fucking don't want to argue. And I agree about most of the stuff you say otherwise, BC. I'm even not sure, if I'm right, after all.

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:25 am

I personally enjoyed the creature that is put into that test file as is. It wasn't too big, yes it towered over my Nord but it wasn't as if it was too big for the screen. I like the feeling it gave of me being a bit insignificant in front of such natural power. Some creatures simply should be big and whatever size it was in the sample .esp fit the bill. If we make these creatures rare and powerful then it is perfect, simply put.

Kiteflyer61 · Post by **Kiteflyer61** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:22 am

Only my opinion, but MW needs a few creatures that a level 15 has a choice of run or die. Even an ogrim is not much of a challenge to a lvl 15 character unless the character is already weakened, and they're pretty big. Leaving it big and slow enough that a good speed potion will outrun it sounds fantastic to me.

This is assuming that the creature will be very rare in the wild. It would also make a great creature for the high level exterior leveled creature lists. As long as there aren't issues with hitting it in game (I won't be able to test it for a little while) I'd vote for leaving it big.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:10 am

Well, the brief for this whole design from idea to concept to model was to create a Morrowind parallel of Oblivion's trolls, not a massive giant. He is meant to be fast and dangerous, not slow and lumbering.

But look, I'm not trying to stir up arguments, I'm just giving you the facts. If this is really going to create problems, I'm happy to back down, please don't think I'm being antagonistic here: that's not a good way to have a conversation.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:15 am

In my view, it is not a troll, it's just some rare mammal dwelling Morrowind.

He infact has become a heavy and strong creature by incorporating Adarnorcil's suggestions (in the irc-chat back then) which were that it's chest and neck should be enlarged and the throat should get that surplus of skin that is otherwise typical for reptils. By that it has significantly changed from the original concept by Schmart, which was slimmer and more agil.

If I had sticked to the proportions given in that concept I would instantly have agreed on scaling it down. But the creature we have now (its not just mine, but to a large extend your creature) does look a lot older and more massive than that.

I hope I did not piss you off, yesterday.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:57 am

That's fine, I wasn't offended by anything.

A lot of this is to do with perception - when you get familiar with something, seeing it changed makes the changed version look very odd at first. But your creature downscaled does not look at all strange to someone not expecting anything larger; it looks completely natural, the increased muscle just makes it look strong, not compressed.

Ultimately, this creature was designed with certain characteristics in mind - I would prefer to stick to those than change things. But, if you as the creator of the final model decide that you really want to change that, then I'd rather you were happy.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:58 pm

Look, I had not planned to turn this creature into a giant. In the very beginning I have had the same scale as you (yet smaller) in mind.

But by and by it has evolved into a bulkier and slower creature. It looks good fighting and running when downscaled, but the walking-animation does not suit a medium-sized creature. The creature in general moves too relaxed. Therefore I believe it owes to be large.

It should be smaller as it is currently though. I'm going to scale it down to 0.85, change the attack-animation and hope you will be ok with that. It actually looks pretty good at that scale. Perhaps it will slightly expand beyond the screen then, but that's to keep the impression of it being big. I will do that tomorrow or the day after that, I'm not at my pc atm.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:46 pm

Okay, that sounds fine. If it is too much trouble to change the anims though, it's not too much of an issue for him to swipe at the player's shins.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:43 pm

I just tested that plugin and I have to say those things look seriously awesome. You're without doubt one of the most skillful animators we've had here at TR. You can just ignore BC's nitpicking if you want to.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:25 pm

Thankyou

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:57 am

So this is the downscaled and adapted swamp troll along with some creature sounds. For convenience I have included the same texture once more.

Moan - is the boarsniff from Bloodmoon (alternatively you could also use the bearsniff)
Roar - is the ogrim moan
Scream - is a sound I have picked from Freesounds.org

These sounds fit to each other quite well imo. I suppose they are ok to use.