Map 2 Detailing Area 9 [Swiftoak Woodwarrior] Discussion

[Hemitheon]

In terms of object errors, I've bizaarely found that the 'steep' Necrom ramps still don't work in the Census and Excise building (and maybe elsewhere) but fine in other places.

I checked the most recent TR_Data. The correct ramp hasn't been included. TR_in_nec_ramp_02 is still a couple degrees off.

[Tyrion]

I've noticed a few thinks that bugged me. The St Felms statues bleed into their pedestals pretty badly. This can be fixed if you increase the pedestal size to .85 and raise old Felmsy up a bit to uncover his feet yet keep the rest of the base hidden. You'll still get a ring around his feet though, I'd rather a ring (which kinda looks cool) to his feet sunk in the pedestal.

The statue SS01's foot isnt attached to the rest of the statue. The water features either side of the entrance to the Temple look... well I think they could be redone, and the flora could be redone as well I think.

[Lady Nerevar]

hey swifty, how about a blog?

[Haplo]

In terms of object errors, I've bizaarely found that the 'steep' Necrom ramps still don't work in the Census and Excise building (and maybe elsewhere) but fine in other places.

I checked the most recent TR_Data. The correct ramp hasn't been included. TR_in_nec_ramp_02 is still a couple degrees off.

I wonder why they work half the time and don't work the other half. It was reported by several people to finally work in the last update, after one degree of change to match the vanilla ramp angles. Perhaps it's an issue of not replacing old files completely?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

It's very strange.

It might be worth tilting them just one more degree downwards? I can't imagine why it's so different in different places though.

[Haplo]

Cells (40,11);(42,13);(43,13);(44,13) should not be named. I really don't think the slums should be named either. To reinforce my opinion, can you move this selected wall closer to the FQ cell/the yellow border line there? That would solve not only my opinion's issue but also deal with some of the ground texture seams going on there:
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/1329/migrate.jpg

In case Tyrion doesn't catch this, delete these statics that are underground and not used. Check all the other cells too:
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7985/delteat.jpg

[Tyrion]

I'd rather just make that wall straight and then fix the texture seam.

[Haplo]

Yes, that's what I meant, sort of. Also, whoever said it is right, the water strider should be removed. I'm also not sure about the feasibility of the silt strider there. I doubt it could step over those bridges. Regarding the Ordinators dockside, there should just be two of them, patrolling the dock. You don't need two of them stationed at each door. I also think you only need two at the entrance to Necrom, not 4

Ex_longboat02 at 347121, -79052, 79 is the one bleeding into the crane; just move it out from the dock a bit, and a touch southwest.

[Tyrion]

Why does Llothis look like hes going "I dunno"

edit: what's the word on using the autumn looking Necrom trees in the city?

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Because our statue makers were paid by the awful? Dunno. *Llothis pose*

[Haplo]

I dunno.

[Tyrion]

I was thinking of doing this

[url=http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8727/necfount.jpg][img]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8727/necfount.th.jpg[/img][/url]

with the fountains. I'm not using ambient lighting and its one activator in place of four of five so it should help with fps a bit. The tall fountain spray keeps the vertical element as well. The other one's seemed a bit too over the top.

You can also see what I did with Felmsy.

[Swiftoak]

Looks good!

Personally I'm not too keen on how I placed/organized the grounds around the temple so don't hesitate to change anything.

One last note. Could someone please put offerings of ingredients and other things at some of the statues? I clearly forgot to do that last night, and I think it would really add to the effect!

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Someone also ought to remember to place some of the TR_furn_shrine_ord Activators in suitable interiors somewhere.

And remove the green/blue lights from in front of the 'Llothis statue pillars' next to the water features by the Temple. The lighting is silly and weird.

[Tyrion]

I already removed those lights, and I've been adding little details like offerings and such to statues and graves as I go.

edit: I'm trying to limit the amount of landscaping I do to keep the item count low and fps playable. I'm also trying to trade off some things, taking container flowers away from one area, moving them somewhere that's going to be more in view to the player.

[Hemitheon]

One thing that really needs fixing are the external lamps on the houses throughout the city. At night, the blocks they are connected to glow something awful. Perhaps either lower it from 512 to something like 256, 188. Something I figured was maybe to create a static of that lamp and then place meshless lighting near it. That way it wouldn't look so over-bright.

[Tyrion]

I'm still moving around the Temple quarter right now so I'll get to that a little later. Now what's the deal with the planters? The ones that contain large trees are often empty. It looks like it should be detailed, but I know we're trying to keep item count at a level that won't seriously effect play. Do I try to shuffle stuff around? Do I detail? Do I let them go?

[Swiftoak]

You should shuffle some stuff out of those planters and into the big ones. And some of the rocks from the trees, and delete some. What's the ref count going in the Temple ATM?


(BTW, shouldn't this be in Reviewing? ;P)

[Tyrion]

1007 and 602. The higher side has all the graves.

[Haplo]

Moved to Reviewing.

[Tyrion]

I've been fiddling around with some of the graves. To cut down on statics I can remove the top part of the marker, the headstone, and leave the slab with an urn on top.

[Swiftoak]

You could even get rid of some of the urns and replace them with offerings, flowers? More variety.

[I'd wish I'd thought of these things last night ]

[blackbird]

Some remarks from me:
The foreign quarter may have some more details and has some floaters.
The iay tower (or something) has not a solid base and is partialy floating outside the walls
Why is the silt strider placed at the docks? Which route does the silt strider take when he's going to travel?
Necrom is a beautiful city when sightseeing at night.

[Tyrion]

I'm taking a little break, I've gone over the Temple Quarter which probably needed the most work. So far the item count is at 993 and 590 for the Temple and almost everything is detailed, minus the cluster of buildings directly adjacent to the Temple itself. Just by looking at it most of the rest of the city will need a lot less work than the Temple did, so it should go a lot faster.

[Haplo]

Why did one of the Temple cell's ref count grow by ~60?

[Tyrion]

Probably because there were things added. Like flora, rocks, offerings, containers and things like that. I recycled most of it but I did add some things.

edit: My first round of fixes and detailing is complete. I'm waiting for RelinQ to send me his error list and I'll combine that with my next round of fixes and then post a file for review.

The new ref count in the Temple quarter: 960 and 618.

Also, I removed the block that was behind most of the lights which should eliminate the horrible glow that was going on. The lights are still 512 though.

I removed several of the other torch lights.

I removed large numbers of velothi banners because they were clipping and slowing things down. I saved a few and used them in certain key areas.

Detailed tree circles using flora from other planters to save refs.

Changed fountains because they were ridiculous.

Fixed A LOT of floating containers like crates and urns.

Fixed a bunch of texture seams.

Fixed a lot of floating flora.

Added a few bronze colored Necrom trees in place of green MH trees on the approach to the Temple for effect.

Removed ambient lights in most places they weren't necessary to improve fps.

Changed around a lot of the graves to save refs.

Added little offerings to the graves.

Removed a row of prayer benches in front of the Temple to save refs.

Detailed wherever necessary.

Added sign to Fighter's Guild.

Fixed bleeding silt strider.

Fixed (kinda) issue with getting onto the two large ships on the one pier. I used crates to create a kind of stair to get over the railing. You'll see when you look at it.

Removed a large amount of statics that were hanging out under the Foreign Quarter.

Fixed issues with various statues (floating/bleeding), added a few others.

Removed a bunch of ordinators. 6 ordinators for one door is too many. 2 for an important entrance, and 1 for other locations that need guarding.

Removed the "Welcome" banner and moved the "Necrom" settlement banner to the mainland end of the causeway as it was clipping badly in its current location.

Rotated St Delyn and St Olms statues becaue it looked like they were headbutting each other.

I think that covers most of it.

I did not remove the riverstrider or change the silt strider's location. I'll do this next. Also, the large number of banners on the wooden poles along the causeway: I'd like to see most of these go, there's too many as is.

[Hemitheon]

Is it not possible to keep the banners on the TR_ex_nec_wallend in the southern Manor District? I was like in love with those.

[RelinQ]

Okay I have a list of about 20 odd errors, but I dont think I have the newest TR_Data. Im going to download the newest TR_Data and hopefully that will prevent so many errors on loading Necrom up

Just to check, Swiftoak, are you using the newest TR_Data? or another non-public updated TR_Data?

[RelinQ]

Sorry to double post, to reiterate the errors I found.
Hmm even the new TR_Data isnt working, I still get errors like:

TR_m2_static_floor_i2-333
TR_m2_scpt_floor_i333_cover

And the list goes on

Anyway besides DATA errors, I found the following world errors and will be fixing them soon:

• - Small gaps of water on terrain near behind a few buildings.
  - Coulple of barrels and crates need moving slightly
  - Several sinking gaps in walkways, just needs some flattening.
  - Couple of doors slightly shifted.

I think my video card just tolerates Necrom,

[Bloodthirsty Crustacean]

Tyrion, on the new graves, your offerings look a little kinda half-hearted right now. Maybe putting them in bowls would look more organised?

Also, the urns look even weirder on their own. Also, there's a massive contradiction in ash urns sitting on a grave.

I maintain that we should remove the urns.

(P.S, tho you may not have got there yet, loony flames still in graveyard.

Also, the awful Sotha Sil statue remains. That needs to go. It is the worst thing in TR Data.

In addition, your crate steps up to the boats won't work because they'll still require jumping, meaning we might break escort quests in Necrom if the companion decides they want to go insane and run off the dock because they're too far away from you, who jumped ahead.)

[RelinQ]

Im going to fix up my errors now and then send that file to Tyrion to use. Just because there are a few terrain errors which I'm gonna quickly fix

There is only 2 little flames in that grave yard, right near the end, but I can remove them if you like.

Um, BC do you want me to remove the urns? or should I replace them with the other new urns? the new ones in the TR_data are mainly white as you know, maybe they might suit better?

And I'll remove that statue for you.

[Tyrion]

Ok, the urns will go then. I didn't think about that as I was doing it but yeah, that doesn't make any sense. I'm just too used to the idea that the Dunmer cremate their dead.

RelinQ: I'll remove the statues and the flames. I'd rather you send me a list of errors than a file with changes you made. It makes things easier on my end. All I have to do is go down your list and make the changes to one file. It's easier for me at least. Those four errors you listed before, if you could give me the location I can fix them quickly.

[Hemitheon]

One thing that noone else has mentioned for fixing is the door from the Foreign Quarter to the Causeway. For sure, that has to die. It doesn't make any sense, considering that many people enter Necrom. Are they supposed to go single file? If a doorlike boundary is required, perhaps consider replacing it with a portcullis.

[Tyrion]

Ok, I thought that was there because there was some sort of a "you need papers to go into Necrom" kind of thing like there was in Sadrith Mora. If there isn't then it'll be a normal gateway.

What should go in place of the Sotha Sil statues? Vivec maybe?

edit: my problem with those ships is that there doesn't seem to be a static that would make stairs for that sort of situation. Maybe I haven't messed around with it enough yet though. I'm putting that there as a stop-gap for now, so at least the player can get onto the boat if they have to, although yes, they'll have to jump.

[RelinQ]

Okay look I havent touched any of the static errors, but I had to fix up the few landscaping errors I found. They wern't just simple little errors. few areas of surface flattening, or mesh smoothing. water gaps and pavement sinks around docks fixed.

Here is the Necrom v0.82 WIP:

[url=http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7AZ6LTNI]Necrom v0.82.rar[/url]

As for the static error list, here it part of it, Im still reviewing for other statics I missed statics.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Texture Seem at this location

365568.000
-83392.000
--------------------------------

Necrom Lighthouse Entrance, is oversized, needs refitting.
TR_ex_nec_e_01

328541.781
-83569.172
5848.690
--------------------------------

TR_ex_nec_gate – (EVERY Gate) all banners

Every banner that is near or on one of these gates needs to be checked, they have a tendency to either sink down or seam into the gatehouses, some also appear as if the angle hasnt been set.

This is probably the biggest task besides the urns.
--------------------------------

TR_m2_necromdelyn – not quite placed on wall

354578.500
-84495.422
--------------------------------

terrain_rock_wg_05 – needs to be lowered, although it may be my fault it shifted, im not entirely sure

354216.094
-74950.594

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Tyrion]

RelinQ, pm me the full error list and I'll make the fixes.

I'm not sure what to do with the doorway to the lighthouse. It's not oversized its actually normal 1.00 sized.

edit: nvm I just changed the doorframe, it looks fine now.

re-edit: new file

Removed riverstrider.

Changed silt strider port set up to be more feasible.

Removed Sotha Sil statues. I have a Vivec and St Delyn statue in their places for now.

Removed urns from graveyard. Made the offerings look better as well.

Changed doorframe on lighthouse, old one was too big.

Changed lights in graveyard.

Fixed floating rock.

Fixed another banner error I missed.

Relin, are you using my .81 file or Swifty's? I thought I fixed most of those banner errors. Also I'm not sure what you mean with the St Delyn statue. I assume you mean the one on the big tower/pedestal when you enter the city. Also, don't post a file with just your fixes. Because then we have two files with two different sets of fixes. Again, pm me your list and I'll make all the changes to one file to keep things a little more organized.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

running around this most recent file, I found a few things:
Please list all doors left unlinked, and what interiors you need. I could have sworn we made the ships already at least...

caspering on the docks (the part facing the land)
That path to Sailen Vulgate isn't so much a path as it is a quick slope down that dead ends.
Wtf is that tower on the mountain outside of town anyway?
some of the door frames on the non-house structures have a little bit of wall sticking through on some parts. (and by some I mean most)
There are also a few places where you can see behind the door (I only saw this on the door to the thing that takes you to the docks, but it is something to watch out for as I didn't check everything)
In that interior, there is a steep necrom ramp that my character could not get back up. Please tell me that piece simply did not get replaced, and that I'm not failing to climb the new "fixed" piece.
From the exterior going back into the docks, the door frame(s) are a noticeably off the ground.

This is an awesome city, and it will be loved and hailed by all who visit it. This has set my standards unreasonably high for cities made with TR architecture sets.

[RelinQ]

Necrom just feels so satisfiying to walk through

@ Tyrion
I used the 0.81 file. It was the newest.

The only reason I did make my own file is because the errors I found where landscape detailing, its not that I dont trust you, its just that this is my area and I have a slightly better eye and approach for fixing this kind of thing considering. If I'd had time earlier to review I would have told Swift.

- The area near the docks is full of sink holes near the edge of the path, and near the silt strider bridge
- there is a building near the docks with water behind it,
- that same building there is a boulder blocking the way so its easy to get stuck behind it.
- the "Necrom, west block" ramp to the temple, the terrain needs more softening.
- there is a texture seem in the most north east Necrom cell just ouside the city wall.

the v0.82 I posted fixes ALL of that. (I'm not entending to make anymore files, assuming these errors get fixed.)

Also about the St.Delyn thingy, its not the statue its like the plaque thingy stuck to the square base the statue is on. the triangle art shaped dealy facing south?

Im sleeping now since its 2am, but I'll post more tomorrow, okay? hopefully that should clear some stuff up.

[Hemitheon]

"Wtf is that tower on the mountain outside of town anyway?"

That tower is an ordinator watchtower which (I assume) is meant to protect pilgrims.

[Haplo]

@ Tyrion
The only reason I did make my own file is because the errors I found where landscape detailing, its not that I dont trust you, its just that this is my area and I have a slightly better eye and approach for fixing this kind of thing considering. If I'd had time earlier to review I would have told Swift.

Um... excuse me? That is utter bullshit. Tyrion has a much better eye thank you for fixing that kind of thing, considering he has taken tests to become an exterior reviewer and has been doing it since before you even joined TR. Let's please not make false claims, shall we? Error reporting is fine, but let's follow protocol and let the Reviewer be the one to make the actual fixes, since that's the Reviewer's job.

Ignore TF's post following this one.

EDIT - The lights need to be lowered from 512, but I can do that later.