WSG#11 Swordsingers: Warrior Monks of Hammerfell.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:27 am

This WSG will be left unlocked for another week for further discussion of styles and such. However the next topic will be starting probably tommorow. Another reason for leaving the last topic open is because this week's will also concern the Swordsingers.

xx_chromosome · Post by **xx_chromosome** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:28 am

the Bard wrote: I don't think katanas would make a lot of sense. And also, I think it would be most logical if the sword would just get less vague and would materialize more when the swordsinger gets stronger, though I don't know if that would be possible.

thus, i suggest it can change in 'style' as a representation. does not have to be totally different from a saber to a katana.

improvise, lore can be like legends and tales.. and they also tend to exaggerate.

also, what do you mean katanas won't work? wha'ts wrong with it? how about 'Green Destiny Sword' then. ha ha

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:36 am

the Bard wrote:

And also, I think it would be most logical if the sword would just get less vague and would materialize more when the swordsinger gets stronger

Well you could make apprentices that can just make a sword have a very plain sword, but make masters have very highly decorated swords with gems and fancy hilts, and so on.
there might be a way to make new skills in the TESIVCS, and if so you can make the sword change whenever they go up in levels.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:57 pm

color:
[url=http://img462.imageshack.us/my.php?image=monk5ul.jpg][img]http://img462.imageshack.us/img462/4156/monk5ul.th.jpg[/img][/url]

the Bard · Post by **the Bard** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:15 pm

xx_chromosome wrote:also, what do you mean katanas won't work? wha'ts wrong with it? how about 'Green Destiny Sword' then. ha ha

I mean, I think katanas won't work in this culture.

Well you could make apprentices that can just make a sword have a very plain sword, but make masters have very highly decorated swords with gems and fancy hilts, and so on.
there might be a way to make new skills in the TESIVCS, and if so you can make the sword change whenever they go up in levels.

This is perhaps a possibillity too. I don't know a lot about any technical stuff so I'm not sure what's possible and what's not but I think that what I said before would be the most like what lore is telling us.

xx_chromosome · Post by **xx_chromosome** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:51 pm

the Bard wrote: I mean, I think katanas won't work in this culture.

what do you mean? i thought we are talking about asian cultures aren't we?

Well you could make apprentices that can just make a sword have a very plain sword, but make masters have very highly decorated swords with gems and fancy hilts, and so on.
there might be a way to make new skills in the TESIVCS, and if so you can make the sword change whenever they go up in levels.

This is perhaps a possibillity too. I don't know a lot about any technical stuff so I'm not sure what's possible and what's not but I think that what I said before would be the most like what lore is telling us.

heeeey, that's what I said~

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:44 pm

the Bard wrote: I mean, I think katanas won't work in this culture.

What? The Redguards are influenced not only by the middle-eastern culture, but also by oriental cultures. If anything, katanas are definatly a must.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 5:46 pm

African/Arabic, with slight traces of Asian style. Though in the TES world, japanese style weapons come from the land of Akavir... or so i'm told. Redguard weapon styles mostly reflect the use of a scimitar, cutlass, or saber-type weapon.

xx_chromosome · Post by **xx_chromosome** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:47 pm

heh

i still have a little trouble linking monks with sabers (though i think there are some saber-like weapons in the 'shaolin monk' group).

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:13 pm

I donÃ‚Â´t see why the Shehai has to actually be like a real sword that was made in a forge. After all they are created by willpower and not by hand. IÃ‚Â´ve made a few suggestions for sword shapes that have the basic shape of a real sword but that is made from a magical (or more organic) material.

[url=http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sihai8pu.jpg][img]http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/176/sihai8pu.th.jpg[/img][/url]

ENIGMA* · Post by ENIGMA* » Tue Mar 21, 2006 11:40 pm

I've given alot of thought to the "sword singer" idea and i really think that this group of individuals does not just "sing" a sword from nothing. I have considered that through consentration and peak mental awarness they could call forth a sword from whatever they are holding.

i/e: a spoon, scroll, another weapon....

the act would physically alter the plane around the held object to "sing" a sword of "spirit" from "another realm".....

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:05 am

How fascinatingly impracticle.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 12:26 am

The words "they forge swords from pure thought" seem to nagate that idea.

I kind of like Nyrens idea. It's different outlandish and colorful. The swords look a lot like lutemoth's.

ENIGMA* · Post by ENIGMA* » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:33 pm

but does it say that their hands are empty?

If it does I must have missed it....

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:45 pm

This is a simple form of magic or mind mastery where by a image of a sword is formed from pure thought. The sword singer forms the sword by concentrating, and it takes shape in his hand

It implies their hands are empty, yes. The sword is formed from pure thought... essentially meaning that it is formed from nothing, and it takes shape in his hand.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:38 pm

Macar wrote:I kind of like Nyrens idea. It's different outlandish and colorful. The swords look a lot like lutemoth's.

Thank you!

Allthough I know they look a little impractical in the scetch, remember that they take shape in the swordsingers hand and don't have to be carried around in a scabbard. Also I think that some of the coloring schemes I used where a little over the top, but I wanted to illustrate my idea.

In my mind it is more beliveable (if I can use such a word in this case), for the swords to be made out of something other than metall, wood and leather, since they weren't made from those materials. It could allow for some interesting character development, with each swordsinger having a weapon that reflect their personality (ie. evil: red, crooked dangerous looking sword, rigthous: elegant cleanswept blade etc.)

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:48 pm

By the way, everyone, I don't think its reasonable to say that it takes shape in their hand because we probably won't be able to make that happen in the game. Thus, Enigma's idea is equally impractical, infact moreso, which was the reason for my previous post.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 10:59 pm

What if you scripted the NPCs to conjure one of Nyren's swords upon being attacked? That would work.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:24 pm

Oh, its easy to put a sword in their inventory only part of time and things like that. The problem I'm talking about is that seeing the sword materialize in their hand in some special effects style is probably not going to happen.

ENIGMA* · Post by ENIGMA* » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:31 pm

ok then I give up.....

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:59 pm

could you script something like an animation of the hands kinda thrusting forward and then make a particle effect of a flash and then have the weapon spawn right in front of the character at the same location of the particle effect?

also i love the idea of the sword being a more mystical and organic weapon based on the summoner of it.

also after looking at nyren's concept art, i think that it would be cool to have some of the sword be somewhat pure energy. It would be something like a sword with tenticles of energy running up it, and depending on your alignment and style of fighting, the pattern and color would differ

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 12:16 am

Yeah, I don't think you can script things like that, which is why it won't work. The player will get one, though, so they'll understand how it works (even if we aren't quite sure yet. Either a spell will make it appear in their inventory for a time, or it will be a bound spell if they still exist)

knightmare · Post by **knightmare** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:09 am

hmm does oblivion allow for useres who have greater knowledge of scripting write their own C++ libraries that can be incorperated into the game?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:12 am

They didn't allow the language to be updated or anything like that in Morrowind, and it doesn't sound like it can be in Oblivion, but I haven't seen anything specific. I imagine there'd be someone going "OMG THIS ROX" if they did, and the scripting thread at ESF makes no such mention.

xx_chromosome · Post by **xx_chromosome** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:24 am

it's probably just my computer's graphics card. but from what i can recall how a NPC (or Player for that matter), draws the sword is esentially not so much of a smooth animation and the sword seemed to be comming out of nowhere anyway.

i mean, if there is nothing can be done with the animation. perhaps, change the lore a little include some more details, etc. (eg: what the swordsingers have to do inorder to draw the sword out of their body, etc.)
nothing can be 100% perfect....

the Bard · Post by **the Bard** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 2:00 pm

To proceed with the discussion about the katanas... I think that Akavir is most likely a continent somewhat similar to Asia while Yokuda is more like Africa. This is why I think Hammerfell would have more of a culture like African culture.
Ah well, Morden already pretty much said this.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Mar 23, 2006 8:00 pm

Sload wrote:Oh, its easy to put a sword in their inventory only part of time and things like that. The problem I'm talking about is that seeing the sword materialize in their hand in some special effects style is probably not going to happen.

I dont think that the normal animation for conjured swords would be wrong. Kind of a suspension of disbelief thing. Plus, that would be, by far, the most practicle to implement.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 5:46 am

*emerges from the alik'r*

Sorry about the unexpected hiatus, but uhm... Here I am! I've been without a computer for the past two weeks, unfortunately.
But, moving on:

As ideas for the swordsingers being concensus as not really wielding anything of this world humbles my concept, I might as well share what I've got (the concepts for these warriors are looking quite spiffy, by the way)
[url=http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7646/swordsinger8bg.jpg][img]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7646/swordsinger8bg.th.jpg[/img][/url]
I tried to examine the term swordsinger as mystic swordsmen who attune themselves away from the seeing world, and magnify their remaining senses. The beads and garments used by the monk help further his sense of movements by hearing alone, and help him/her coordinate in combat. The shoes, made from light, resonating wood, are used as vibration detection, something rumored to be much more useful than a bare foot to these people.

On the inexperienced warrior, these garments are very bothersome and impossible to sneak in. The swordsingers, however, have been said to move and dance in the heat of battle, and make not a sound.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 8:57 pm

I like the look. You've got both the tribal feeling of africa and hints of asian style. You and Nyren are sort of on the same page.

I also like the curvey swords with the long handles typical of graceful flowing and slicing movements.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Mar 26, 2006 9:58 pm

I can say quite confidently that I'm in love with Nyren's organic transmuted swords, it would make for a very sought after item, despite the seldem few who can actually wield it

Just wandering with the creation idea, as you can see with these sequential doodles
[url=http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5357/swordsinging6gq.jpg][img]http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5357/swordsinging6gq.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 10:22 pm

[url=http://img70.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordsinger42kx.jpg][img]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3812/swordsinger42kx.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Drew that days and days ago. Then I lost the sketchbook. Then Oblivion happened.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 3:08 am

There's your signiture muscle-bound creature

He looks very magestic with that flowing topknot.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:46 pm

Thanks everyone for particpating in WSG#11