[FCG]: Hammerfellian Temples

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 2:58 am

just keep extruding and scaling down circles to make a dome. That concept has to much of the simplicity that was determined by the game engine. I know it's a difficult stage to pass through, but yeh, that's the problem with it.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 12:48 pm

aro101 wrote:just keep extruding and scaling down circles to make a dome. That concept has to much of the simplicity that was determined by the game engine. I know it's a difficult stage to pass through, but yeh, that's the problem with it.

I'll keep practicing. The next concept that I'll be posting in this thread is going to be a temple of this kind, but altered to fit in with Scumbago's architecture.

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:12 am

Corwyn that second temple design is excellent ! it looks really beautiful a beacon of religion almost haha !

so what if it looks a bit phalic , most civilizations are fascinated by the male genitalia and have been for thousands of years!

i think if the middle section was scaled down it would fit nicely with a part of the tower to call out religous folks to daily prayer.

the temple itself could be underground ! which i think would add to the uniquness of this temple

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:20 pm

Jormungandr from the Official Forums was so kind to provide us with these Redguard screenshots of the Temple of Arkay:

http://s6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/Jormungandr83/Redguard/

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:59 am

i can only imagine how that would look if it was updated and put into morrowind or oblivion

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:23 pm

Harke the Apostle wrote:I've tried to recreate the Redguard temple exterior from the screenshots.

[url=http://img127.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple2isoor6.jpg][img]http://img127.imageshack.us/img127/8259/temple2isoor6.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The stack of cylinders is meant to be a dome. But I can't pull that off in sketchup yet. (this is my first model).

Put the dome on it and this looks perfect to me - Yeah it's old school but with the right textures to give it a little embellishment this would look just as good (better in my opinion) as any of the roundish designs submitted so far.

Harke - you did a really good job with that image - good enough to be taken as "the one to go with" in my opinion - plus we have the added benifit of being "true" to long time Elderscrolls fans who played through redguard and will recognize the chapel.

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:15 pm

yeh i reckon they would be in awe that TR team had managed to recreate the area perfectly !

nice sketch nalin !

Elfane · Post by **Elfane** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:36 pm

I suggest (if not already decided) that we make one type of temple for each architectural region.
And yes that temple should be in the "red region" [url]http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfmap3cp4.jpg[/url] or perhaps only in Stros M'kai

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 4:55 pm

Lol Sapien. Could you read the threads more carefully? That wasn't Nalin's sketch. That was Harke's. Pay more attention to stuff like post date and quotes please. And try to add some more constructive opinions/stances in your posts...

Thank you Harke and Jormungandr for the reference, this will be useful. Still, your sketch is too blocky in my eyes. And no, it's not only about making more round shapes. It's about it's basic shape, lack of frames, windows, addons, etc(details). Just look at the blocks that are on the sides of stairs... That would look just lame, no kind of texture would help it. But let's be optimistic, if you're able to improve that design, it will do well.

However, Elfane's right... But, the red region will be divided for the yellow and green. We will have 3, not 4

And this concept would be better for the yellow, the desert set. And now, Goldmoor is the priority...

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:34 pm

aro101 wrote:Lol Sapien. Could you read the threads more carefully? That wasn't Nalin's sketch. That was Harke's. Pay more attention to stuff like post date and quotes please. And try to add some more constructive opinions/stances in your posts...

I'm actually flattered that Sapien, mistook the render for one of Nalins. But, Sapien, you should look at the models that Nalin posted in his own threads, and you won't make that mistake again. I'm not much of a modeler, but it would seem to me that Nalin is one of the best model makers TR has.

aro101 wrote: Thank you Harke and Jormungandr for the reference, this will be useful. Still, your sketch is too blocky in my eyes. And no, it's not only about making more round shapes. It's about it's basic shape, lack of frames, windows, addons, etc(details). Just look at the blocks that are on the sides of stairs... That would look just lame, no kind of texture would help it. But let's be optimistic, if you're able to improve that design, it will do well.

I will continue refining this concept, like I said I would (but haven't done yet), and if it turns out unuseful for TR, at least I'll know how to make domes etc. in SketchUp.
I will also do a model of the interior.

Before I continue, I'd like to mention that the Temple of Arkay in the screenshots that I'm modeling the concept on seems to be a precursor to Hlaalu/Redoran architecture in MW, only the colour is redder.
___________________________________

Are there any special requirements that interiors in Oblivion have in relationship to their exteriors?
I can make the interior as big as it would be if the temple were an IRL building is that alright or should it be bigger?
How does the Goldmoor architecture we have solve that?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:57 pm

Oh... In the reversed order.

The interiors in oblivion are most of the time made like they would be a real scale reflection of the extorior. Though, sometimes, they just go crazy. I remember El Scum giving me an example for this, in Anvil. So, If you would make the interior slighty bigger, that wouldn't brake any rules. So go ahead, if you wish.

Heh, it might seem to be a precursor, but don't play too much attention to that, this might be a false-friend(heh, I couldn't find the right word). For example, I always thought of the Hlaalu arch as a reflecion of their cosmopolitan nature. For example, while the exterior might contain some Hammerfell influences, the interiors definitely do not.

Yeh, and an individualist Nalin also is ^^ Good luck with that model.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:48 pm

the reason we wanted one temple is because we dont have people to model it. same reason we have regional architecture and a whole lot of other things. if we had 5 active modelers we could make unique temples for each city as i would like, but thats not gona happen. So, if you want to go insane and model ALL the cool stuffs (unique temples, more suplimentary architecture like gatehouses, etc.) get us another active modeler. this is the harsh truth, the balance between being cool and actualy finishing must be achieved.

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:33 am

Sorry I haven't been back here, been awfully busy, I might see if I can make a more interesting concept of the box building at some point though!

oh and just something random, I personally would stick to making the interiors actually fit inside the buildings for two reasons:

1. I am pretty sure some people have used a hack job style thing with the LOD world outside the windows to make them look a lot nicer, doesn't work so well if the interiors don't fit inside the exteriors. while you may not intend to do this at any point, making things possible for others is always a plus

2. This project will be going for a long time, maybe even TES5 will come around. graphics engines these days are focusing hugely on higher quality lighting, rendering and shading techniques. The actual texture res and and polygon count isn't changing too much, wouldn't it be nice to at least have the possibility of porting things to a newer engine later? Having all these meshes at least available may make future projects more possible and I doubt by the time tes5 comes around we will be keeping the separate world space deal.

Now I know these aren't very big reasons at all, but for the little effort it takes now to actually have them fit I personally think its worth it. I suppose I am just a stickler for doing things "right" though =p

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 12:45 am

i think ints totaly need to fit exts, however, making them a wee bit bigger in some parts is OK in my mind as long as the interior is recogniseble. a square exterior cna have a tiny bit biger interior, but it shouldnt have one that is twice as tall and star shaped.

PS. why is everyone quoting me all of a sudden? have my oratory and rhetoric skillz gone +1?

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:27 am

[img]http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/carbon140/temple2.gif[/img] took me a little longer than expected, its an odd design to make look decent and its not as quick and easy to rough out with the square shape =p

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:17 am

Woah! With a teeny (or none at all) editing that would be Goldmoorestique! AKA good for goldmoor.

But I need Aro's opinion

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:22 am

Dude, this one, that's exactly what I wanted to see. It is clearly an improved design of the redguard temple and it fits our architecture while still having its own style. No need to discuss it more. Any cosmetic changes can be done by the modeller, I'd say this is what we seek, no need to discuss it anymore. Great job. Could you, err, upload it?

Well, the truth about interiors fitting exteriors exactly is, you would never notice a slight difference, as long as you don't enter a squarish wooden building and see a rectangular brick temple with a dome inside

Rly. Even if you play with things like "I can see what's outside the window!".

Jedak · Post by **Jedak** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:56 am

Hehe... I knew it

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:44 am

hey sorry for not reading the posts correctly !

aro you wanted a better looking temple that was less blocky and cowyn delivered , corwyn that temple is very good.I think the design is excellent , the detail in the walls and the entrance also the dome roof make it that much more exciting to look at than the original one.

Id like to see the in game model with some lovely textures on it ! .

sorry if im not clued up on stuff , i do try to spend most of my working day reading these forums haha !

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 2:18 pm

I would like to see a bit more head room, though. Not necessarily another floor; even half a floor would make the tample look much grander. By the way, how large can temples be in oblivion? Because I'd imagine that living quarters for priests etc. would be in another building, or perhaps a wing jutting out from one of the sides.

I also wouldn't mind seeing some more detail on the dome, perhaps giving it a slightly different shape or heavy decorations (in the latter case via textures). I'm not sure where eyeball's work is stored, but he had some nice ideas for temples.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:12 pm

Actually, it already can be quite big. Imagine it being just as high, as a two floored(with dome as well) MC. That would be an impressive structure, big just enough for a temple.

And IMO, this building works great in the way it is now. It is a complete structure, addons that wouldn't look add might be hard to create for this. The only one I can think of, would just make the building longer. Living quarters can be made in the interior of this as well.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:16 pm

I personally would put the living quarters in a separate building next to the temple.

BTW: That conncept is pretty good

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Sun Nov 25, 2007 11:05 am

I would make the living quarters underground below the main temple floor ! and possibly have a temple garden and burial site

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:03 am

Can it be an octogon? I like octogons.

Taller too.

Then the walls between the archs could be modular, like the stained glass inside the Temples, and be adorned with different depictions of Gods, which would be easy enough since Lutemoth's working on God draws for a scroll describing the gods some time soon.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:14 pm

Sload wrote:Can it be an octogon? I like octogons

Sload, you're a bloody trouble maker! Just when we're getting onto something "finalised" you come and throw your octogons in.

But seriously - let not go with the octogon idea.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 3:35 pm

why not?

i couldnt have a good reason for it to be an octogon or anything

like that its square shape makes it look like a stylized Dunmer Temple.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 5:52 pm

Octogon ok. Modular walls, I'm not sure... We could just throw different variations of the temple instead of making some of its parts modular. That would be easier and faster. For the modeller and the exterior modder.

And heh, Nalin I did worse than applying changes to a "finalised" concept

By the way, How about claiming something and help TR a bit?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:11 pm

octagon conresponds nicely to the number of aedra... though that really dosenet have too much to do with a yoku temple.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:53 am

Whats the problem with modular walls? its very simple to do in the CS, and it can't be too hard to make a rectangle of the right dimensions and then give it a number of different textures with gods drawn on them.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:10 am

I tried both, making modular sets and putting together different varations. Modulars take some more time to make in most cases, so we should only go this way if it's worth of it. Applying a different texture to a mesh take a second, but exporting many different modular pieces with different textures takes some more time... In how many places will this temple be used and of how many different walls were you thinking about?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 1:42 am

At least 9.

Like 15.

Really, I don't believe it can be that hard. The modular pieces are IDENTICAL models.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:20 am

Corwin's latest square-style concept looks very sexy. Just keep doing your thing Aro. I'm sure it will look awesome

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:16 pm

Hehe, Sload, I know they're indetical... It's not about giving something a shape, it's about exporting, aligning, collisions, etc(mostly boring stuff). It isn't that hard, it just takes longer, trust my knowledge in this case. This discussion is not about adding some variety or not, it's about how to add it. Making a single mesh and retexturing the walls to create about 9 variations will result exactly the same effect ingame. As a modeller, In most cases I prefer to make some variations rather than creating a modular set. But well, we can go with modulars here, it wouldn't be evil.

And yeah, this one's gonna be awesome

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:58 am

hmm. 9 different ones could work, there are just some benefits to having the wall pieces separate because I could see them being used in other places, but oh well. Sure.

Honestly, I can't imagine alignment or collision or any other details besides the texture being anything but exactly the same for all of them. But whatever, it'll come out the same.

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:48 am

there is a hexagonal chruch down the road from my house ! it was built a while back ,it was built like that so the devil had no corners to hide in, so that everyone could see the full church !

its weird looking and spooky !

I like the idea , but as you guys have said it would be difficult.

id like to see corwyns version of the temple , but of course adjusted to suit the general consensus on what they should look like !

Corwyn · Post by **Corwyn** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:37 pm

It looks like Aro and Sload are talking about pretty much the same thing... Even if they are not, Sload is right, its not that hard if its the same mesh with different textures. Basically open in nifskope, edit the texture line by adding 02 or however the textures are set up (probably going from something like templetexwall01 to templetexwall02 or something) then go to file save as and save it as templewall02 and your done. Even that makes it sound more complicated and time consuming than it is, if the mesh is done and the textures are there it would be about a 5 minute job to set up 15 sections?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:51 pm

Yeah, but while making a modular set, even though you make the varations later on in nifskope, you have to pay attention to few more things while producing the basic set(and then exporting it, which also takes longer with modulars). And if we would go with differrent temple variations, producing 9 of them would propably also take like 5 minutes in nifskope later on.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:36 pm

if we are going with 9 sepparate temples id rather see them be unique (one simple like redguar's, one more elaborate like corwyn's orignal, etc.) then just having them be modifications on one model.

if we are going with only one temple then some kind of variation is certainly needed, though i dont particularly care in wich form. one plus of modular add-ons is that they could be used in areas other then the temple.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 12:29 am

[url=http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple4pd6.jpg][img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/671/temple4pd6.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple4roofei3.jpg][img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7548/temple4roofei3.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple5tophx0.jpg][img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5924/temple5tophx0.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple5interiorkq9.jpg][img]http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5057/temple5interiorkq9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The base:

[url=http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple4basesn9.jpg][img]http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/5145/temple4basesn9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

sapien · Post by **sapien** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 2:16 pm

Woah harke thats a pretty sweet design , i see youve been very busy very very busy , that looks very good , i especially like the way you have broken up the interior with the central pillar design ,the interior window designs are nice as well.

I think this would work well , you know without the sort of middle eastern influence this is exactly the way the church is built that i mentioned thats down the road from my old house in falkirk.Its now a scottish heritage site , but for a while was used as a grannary storage building.

I would like it , if that central pillar design had spiral staircase going down into a underground chamber , that would really be sweet.
My reason for this is , having a church above ground with the main temple above ground in a hot environment would be very uncomfortable for its users , spending alot of time in prayer. IF they were underground then they would benefit from the cold air away from the sun.