The Official "Let's Talk About The Future Of TR" Thread

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:08 am

Well, we Corefolk want to hear your opinions on what direction you all think we should take TR from here. This is a community project, so everyone in the community should pitch in with their two cents.
Just how broad or specific is the scope of this thread? However broad or specific you like.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:35 am

No matter how bad we want it, Morrowind province will not be completed to Bethesda standards on the TES:III engine. Its too much work to complete with the resources we currently have available.

I don't think many people really expected to finish this project.. in fact, a lot of us just mod for the sake of modding. We take joy from it, and its a hobby. However, many of us are getting bored. We don't do a hell of a lot of modding anymore... we fix other people's substandard work. Well over a year ago, i was spending hours on end, just creating error reports for Map 1... and the processs is still going, in the form of Map 1 detailing. I feel like we're beating a dead horse, and I'm sick of it.

I'd like to get our work bundled into some sort of downloadable/explorable form, and move on.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:58 am

Dexter wrote:Well, we Corefolk want to hear your opinions on what direction you all think we should take TR from here. This is a community project, so everyone in the community should pitch in with their two cents.
Just how broad or specific is the scope of this thread? However broad or specific you like.

Wow Dex, this is really a great thing to post. I really don't want to be the first to speak, and I'm not sure my two cents is actually worth two cents, but aw well, here goes:

What would be the ideal situation for TR in the future? Well, to go all the way for one thing, by which I mean to complete all of the provinces to the best of our ability acording to the ES lore. That's the common goal isn't it? I mean, were "Tamriel" Rebuilt, not "Morrowind, Skyrim, and Half of Hammerfell" Rebuilt.

I'm not really sure about what you want us to opinionate on to tell the truth. If you mean "which province should we do next?", then I'd say Skyrim because it's the easiest, but everyone here has a different mind on that matter so I won't go into detail. If you mean, "should we just let TR go after we finish Morrowind?", then that's a hard one to answer. I think we should attempt another province (on the Oblivion engine of course) but unless we get a huge wave of new members (which may be likely when we switch engines) then I don't know what to say. We're looking pretty thin on voice acting and moddellers right now. We're pretty good on lit writers I think, and we have a good few scripting experts on hand, but we really do need members. What I think TR should do to prepare for the next province is to cast an official vote as to what the next province is going to be, and stick with it. Once the vote is over, there's no looking back and no re-votes. Then the core needs to order out a ton of concept art and lore disscusion on that chosen province and everything to do with it. After that we have to develope a captivating main quest and see what people (both members and the public), think of it. I know we can't advertise, but we really need something to put TR back on the map, and an engine switch would certainly draw attention. What we really need to focus on at the present is getting Morrowind finished and out of the way. But like I said, concept art for MW is basically done, so TR has a whole bunch of concept artists standing idle. Officiate the next province, and then let them (us) get cracking at next-province art. I think I've answered your question pretty well, if I understood ir corrctly. If not, I just did a whole load of pointless and irrellevant speculation. Oh well...

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:20 am

Osuhn havag devahr cin! Osuhn havag devahr cin! Fut aradir fut cin edur! Bahr cahn! Barh cahn! Dradihn, bahr Resdayn! Ald Dunmeri.. Bah en asuhl en asuhm Daaedra en Daaese!

Gher cahn, osuhn maniseg devahr bahr-adurig ald baldefud. Bahr hagil baldefud, alnef ald baldefud. Ald MAEB baldefud! Ju'it? Un el edur ku'iim osuhn harig.

Gher cin, osuhn harig hagil baldefud. El khamir bahr muhrig maeb baldefud, bahr lacor cahn, un osuhn adur ald hij. Enhi, oure ald, osuhn can mugag isk uajihr.

Et os dahrgu.. okag devahr cin, okag devahr Dradihn.

Uh.. I mean that I think we should move to Oblivion when it comes out because otherwise we're just going to be fixing things that weren't good enough.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:37 am

I think organisation wise and so forth, what we have now is pretty much as good as it is gets.

For the next province, I personally think Hammerfell is the way to go. Pirates, mercenaries, cool architecture, mountains, nude cities, deserts, nomads, interesting history, the province we have the most complete knowledge on, nomads, and snake charmers - what more could anyone possibly want?

For the engine, I think a switch to the ESIVCS is largely unavoidable, no matter how good or bad it turns out to be. Finishing Morrowind should be the target, but it may not be achievable (let's see what happens over the next few months). However, once TESIV is released, modders should still be working on finishing Morrowind province, whilst modellers start making textures, plants, buildings, etc. in preparation for the next province. At least IMO.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:52 am

Nice sig Sload... Anyway, I can't help but dissagree with you Morden. We (or I should say you guys, I'm a newb) have put a huge effort into TR. As you say, not many people expected us to finish this, and it would just pay off majorly to finish Morrowind the right way. This would pay back that shallow idiot at the ES Forums who took TR off of the link list, and every little whiner who came on here and spammed about TR having one foot in the grave. It would also show Silgrad Tower right where it's at. And most of all (who cares what they think?) It would allow every hardworking member here to pat themselves on the back and consider their time with TR time well spent. After all, if we don't finish Morrowind completly, what reason are people going to have to join us on the Oblivion engine? Most people will think "Well, they didn't finish the first province, what's to say they'll finish the second?" It's almost a must for TR if we want to project a good image to the rest of the modding community. Who cares about what other people think? TR should do this for themselves out of pride. Don't start something unless you plan on finishing it.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:58 am

None of us started this, and I'll say it flat-out, we cannot finish Morrowind with this sort of member base. We have a single questmaker, and fewer and fewer contributing members every day.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:09 am

Dexter wrote:None of us started this, and I'll say it flat-out, we cannot finish Morrowind with this sort of member base. We have a single questmaker, and fewer and fewer contributing members every day.

I get what you mean... but then why won't you guys let some people advertise? We have a few members with websites, if we're desperate then it can't hurt can it? I know it's rough now, but how can we just give up and move on?

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:14 am

Oh yeah!Why don't we make some advertisments an our sites.I will do one if you let me!

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:17 am

Well, the general problem with advertising is that the only real place to advertise is the ESF, and whenever someone posts a "Join TR!" thread on the ESF, it turns into a flamefest.
And how do we give up and move on? Well, if it comes to that, we come to terms with the reality that TR has been a learning curve, with a whole lot of mistakes made early on, and the engine itself is experimental at best.
One thing I want people to consider when they think this over, is that for no reason should anyone consider work that other people have done to be their responsibility. Keep in mind, this is a hobby, and it will forever stay a hobby. So before you post your thoughts, make sure you realize that this is all for fun.
I'll post my long-winded stance on the issue tomorrow, when more people have given their input.

nietzsche · Post by **nietzsche** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:36 am

...that morrowind province along with extra quests, dungeons, tombs, dunmer strongholds, daedric ruins, gods, misc. quests, NPCs etc. should be completed ASAP and the next provinces can then be made with oblivion CS.

But to which province should be completed next...that is a tough question. I mean all provinces have some interesting ideas:

Hammerfell: this already been said above, but mercenaries, pirates, perhaps some kind of fanatics. Also IMO monks would be great.

Elsweyr: Many different kind of khajiiti breeds,monks, mon sugar smuggling and other kind of smuggling.Perhaps joinable smugglers guild or something like that

Argonia: This is a tough one. Perhaps something to do with slavery as I remember that someone here said one that especially the dunmeri bring lots of saves from Argonia.
Also, the swamps of argonia are dangerous...(diabolical laughter)

Skyrim: Orc bashing, animal hunting, anything to do with fighting, as Nords usually are fierce warriors. Also snow elves could be added

Valenwood: In the mysterious woods of valenwood there probably could be all kinds of interesting creatures, like maybe wild elves, nymphs etc. Also Valenwood would probably hide a lot mysteries, because to me it strikes a lot like Lothlorien in the LOTR.

High Rock: The magical High Rock. Something to do with magic obliviously. Perhaps something related to the Worm King?

Sommerset Isles: Mystery and magic. Perhaps a portal to another dimension (not necesserraly Oblivion. Perhaps a opprotunity to meet some Dwemer)?

Also good ideas:

1.Some kind of invasion of the orcs (Now that the emperor is dead in the oblivion it also could mean the uprising of the orcs)

2. Opportunity to meet and make meat of the various gods of the provinces(i.e. kill them)

3. Perhaps dragons could be added in cyrodiil province. Perhaps someone will also attach morrowind in TESIV:oblivion (not neccesserally made in TR)

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:32 am

Dexter wrote:Well, the general problem with advertising is that the only real place to advertise is the ESF, and whenever someone posts a "Join TR!" thread on the ESF, it turns into a flamefest.

You could try the [url=http://rethan-manor.net/phpBB2/index.php]ESC[/url] instead. It seems more friendly than the official forums.

As for the project -- forget the quests and dialogues -- for now. Concentrate on finishing the landmass, and release said finished landmass as "TR betas". Other people will start adding in their own extensions, NPCs, and quests. It'll also facilitate recruiting. Some modders will install the thing to play and explore, and will want to participate because of the quality.

Beta 1: Just the landmass, connected interiors and whatever NPCs are already there.
Beta 2: As above plus travel and service NPCs.
Beta 3 and on: more and more quests, lore dialogues (the "specific places", "someone in particular", "services", etc. dialogues notably), and filler NPCs/creatures.

In doing so, there will be a lot of modders that will make a few little mods for work with TR, which they wouldn't have made if they had to join the project, successfully claim the area, pass through reviewers, etc. This means that the majority of them will be rubbish. Or will be technically great, but lore-unfriendly. This isn't a problem for TR, though since they won't be part of TR.

And some will be lore-friendly and technically sound. Through external reviews and words-of-mouth, you'll hear about these great mods and then it will be possible to see whether it would be a good idea, for each particular mod, to merge it with the next beta.

Resadyn · Post by **Resadyn** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:19 pm

I have a feeling that if we did realase it like Gez said it would be the best thing we could ever do.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:30 pm

I think some people aren't even consider what is really the question Dexter is asking: when do we switch to Oblivion?

I say as soon as we can, because I believe that if we continue to work with Morrowind the project will die. Now keep your discussion of what province to do in the already-pretty-much-decided province thread.

Hamlet_Shakespeare · Post by **Hamlet_Shakespeare** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:40 pm

By advertising, do you guys also mean going to places like GameSpot and trying to recruit people for the project? Because you guys didn't want to advertise. But heck, I'm not a very good public speaker or announcer, and I don't want to give those guys a bad impression on the project. But I'll go if you guys send me...

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:43 pm

Sload wrote:I think some people aren't even consider what is really the question Dexter is asking: when do we switch to Oblivion?

Er... Whenever it comes out? But if that is to be the plan, than we need to start preparing now. Officiate the next province, and get a ton of concept art and lore generated. Start letting the mod community know about the switch in an official manner, so as not to confuse people, and then put our noses to the grindstone and charge ahead. We need to set an official number of armor sets and weapon types before we even start mapping, and we need to form a list of prvince-based clutter, unique items, book titles, and a good hearty list of NPC names asap. What I'm saying is basically, TR needs to get organized before we start, otherwise this project will fall into oblivion (uh, ignore that pun) just like Morrowind did.

fanfas · Post by **fanfas** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:03 pm

My first thoughts as a general idea... Later i may elaborate.

Morrowind, well i must admit i agree a little with morden... I mean i think it will be harder to finnish all things in morrowind if we are for about 2 months or more detailing map1, the other maps are not even complete yet...

What to do then:

1Ã‚Âº - A lot of people will not buy Oblivion at first so i think the first thing to do is make a public release of map 1 after being detailed with all but quests. I think this way some will feel the will to help us knowing we are still alive and kicking... Alive at least.

2Ã‚Âº - Next we should focus on finnishing all exteriors for all maps and i mean all of them... and while some do this anothers should be looking for cells that need detailling and (i know this will be hard) but attribut one map a person to detail it. Why? well it may take longer but at least we will have no problems merging and stuff.

3Ã‚Âº - While some are doing the above point others should be making interiors for all maps...

4Ã‚Âº - After point 2 be complete we should join all interiors made with all exteriors and do another release...

5Ã‚Âº - After this if the interest is still on, at least some people that don't have Oblivion may do quests and other stuff also help finnishing the interiors.

Why i said the above? Well i think the problem of Tamriel Rebuilt is the lack of public releases (Let's look at ST they are pricks and all that, but they gain the support they have by releasing betas). The problem of our way of thinking is the fact that we are working for 3+ years and don't have shown nothing, and so is more then logic that people think we will never get there...

After Oblivion... some of us that bought it should start doing the next province... the others stay at morrowind, and so we can have all members that want busy, because if we switch to OB and stop MW there will be a lot of us that will only participate in books and art...

Bottom line LETS MAKE A PUBLIC RELEASE ASAP just "as is" but i know that people will like it a lot... ST was only landscaping withouth quests and it was acceptable, so for a firs release i think it is OK to do... After detailling, MAP 1 should be released.

Well i know that a lot of you will not agree with me but this is my opinion and i feel that i should give it, i'm not the most active member (only one interior) but that is because don't have time and only like imperial ints and even those they need to be simple... also i like shacks but i'm waiting for some to come.

PS: I also think that some advertisement is good, but lets stay out of ESF there are a lot of modders forums and fans where we can do that. At ESF only a thread to the RELEASES.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:27 pm

Well, I think we're all ready to hear Dex's so called "long winded explanation".

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:36 pm

A problem with TR and publicity is that most of the community still doesn't understand we're not trying to release TR as one huge mod but in several pieces. Vernon suggested we size down the pieces further, from provinces to something like our current maps or even smaller. That way we can make a small detailed patch of land and release it. Then we can start on the next, and so forth. I was thinking that finally we can then add a mainquest to several patches of land as an overlapping layer.

For the switch to TES4 or not, I think we should move this forum away and let people who still want to do modding for TES3 use this forum while a new Oblivion forum, almost identical to this one probably, will be created for use with the TES4 engine. A sort of sub-core should then take care of TES3:Morrowind and hoefully finish it to some degree. That way, everyone who wants to mod can still be a part of this project and Morrowind might even get finished some way.

The only problem with that is the bandwidth and server space, I am not sure if the server can cope with that and none of us know how large Oblivion files will be. Though my guess is the difference won't be that big.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:02 pm

Vegor wrote: For the switch to TES4 or not, I think we should move this forum away and let people who still want to do modding for TES3 use this forum while a new Oblivion forum, almost identical to this one probably, will be created for use with the TES4 engine. A sort of sub-core should then take care of TES3:Morrowind and hoefully finish it to some degree. That way, everyone who wants to mod can still be a part of this project and Morrowind might even get finished some way.

Brilliant, Vegor! This is definatly the way to go, and the best idea yet. I'm with you. The only problem is, do we have anyone that knows what their doing that can be spared for this "sub-core"? We already have a shrinking member base...

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:07 pm

Well, what I said only goes if there are sufficient members that still want to do TES3 modding. If there's only a couple, we better loose it altogether. Or at least as a part of our project. Others will be free to take it up and finish it to their satisfaction.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:14 pm

Vegor wrote:Well, what I said only goes if there are sufficient members that still want to do TES3 modding. If there's only a couple, we better loose it altogether. Or at least as a part of our project. Others will be free to take it up and finish it to their satisfaction.

Well... I have a terrible comp, and it probably won't be able to handle Oblivion until I get my new one. I volunteer to stay behind, at least until we get Morrowind finished, and do a little of everything that needs doing. I truly love Morrowind, so it woudn't be so bad...that is if there are enough people available.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:15 pm

I say that we should stick by what was said announced;
finish Morrowind in this engine, no matter what. A lot of other mod projects are going to fall apart in Oblivion's shadow and if TR can scoop up some people who still want to mod for ES3 then we will be away with ourselves. I think that the aim should be to have a maps beta out before the end of the year. (This should be all exteriors plus all finished interiors) Then this bets can be released at ESC, ESF etc. One week later a recruitment thread should be started at ESC, making sure that people konw that TR When people see the quality of TR we will probably get some members. By this time the hope would be that that Map 1 fixing NPcs and dialogue will be finished, and hopefully quests could be finished in about 6 weeks. This would leave 10/11 more weeks before O-day (Oblivion release) and another beta with all exteriors completely detailed and Map3 and Map4 interiors finished. If the general ES modding community sees the quality of the releases, more support is almost definite. The ES3 modding community is way too big too simply wither away with the release of Oblivion.

When Oblivion is released, planning should begin for how TR should work in the ES4 engine. Then, once a province has been chosen, and all of the texture maps and such are completed, claiming forums will be made available for the ES4 modding project. This shouldn't start straight away, but about six months after the release of OB. With all the planning done beforehand, then there will not be time and effort wasting activities like changiong a town's alleigance, etc.

I disagree with Vegor that a completely separate forum should be created for ES4 modding. Rather, the lounge, tavern, lore, lit etc sections should be shared while two separate claiming sections are introduced. This would emphasize that both mods are part of TR and would allow for easy exchange of ideas and know-how. Some members might even mod for both parts.

Maybe this is all waffle and my estimates are probably wildly innacurate, but I do think beta releases are a good idea.

fanfas · Post by **fanfas** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:50 pm

Vegor wrote: For the switch to TES4 or not, I think we should move this forum away and let people who still want to do modding for TES3 use this forum while a new Oblivion forum, almost identical to this one probably, will be created for use with the TES4 engine. A sort of sub-core should then take care of TES3:Morrowind and hoefully finish it to some degree. That way, everyone who wants to mod can still be a part of this project and Morrowind might even get finished some way.

I agree, like i said in my post who don't have OB stay here finnishing MW who have OB move to the new province... About the new forum... i don't know... only zephyr and garfield can say something but sounds good.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:06 pm

Just one other thing; (then I'll shut up-that last post was really long-winded, sorry)
Some people on other modding forums are of the opinion that Tr only takes from other mods but never gives anything back. Then why don't we prove these people wrong by releasing some Oot files on ESC as modder's resource. This could be a sort of goodwill gesture to the general modding community and would go some way towards improving people's opinions of TR. (even though some people will never help us, they might stop badmouthing us at the very least) Of course, this is completely up to the Core and the modellers who produced the Oot files.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:07 pm

I agree with fanfas.I want to work at the both of them.OB and MW.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:12 pm

Ludovic wrote: I disagree with Vegor that a completely separate forum should be created for ES4 modding. Rather, the lounge, tavern, lore, lit etc sections should be shared while two separate claiming sections are introduced. This would emphasize that both mods are part of TR and would allow for easy exchange of ideas and know-how. Some members might even mod for both parts.

I would agree with that Ludo (may I call you Ludo?

), however I think Vegor is right, two forums sections would be much more organized. I think we should add another forums section on this same TR site, up where Main, Forums, Downloads, and Join Now! are, we could change "Forums" into TES III and add a new section for TES IV. This way TR would all be on one site, and everyone can easily flip back and forth between the two conveniantly. Also, we'd have to come up with a new rank under the overall admins and mods that would be responsible for the control of Morrowind and the TES3 engine on a whole. Again I say it, organization is the most important aspect in order to pull this thing together correctly.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:35 pm

I have a bad feeling about saying this..but have the people who want to release what we have now actually explored a lot of our exteriors?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:44 pm

and i have a bad feeling about saying this.. but have you ever looked at the otehr mods out there? well take a look at some of the uter shit that people deem exelent.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:00 pm

Would you be proud of releasing our current exteriors, though? We have some absolutely beautiful things in some places, that is true. But do you remember the Void? I don't know if that is still there, but I found a 4 cell mountain with no statics on Map 6. There is a ridiculous shrine thing that breaks all possible forms of lore on Map 5. There are plenty of RAS* roads also.

So that I don't sound so melancholy.. there are, however, areas I'd be very proud to release. Karthor Dale is beautiful. I love Old Ebonheart Castle. Stonefalls is also fantastic. Necrom looks really good. Lady N's exteriors are great. I love the Argon Jungle. Port Telvannis is an awesome city. Hendor Stardumz was great.

And so forth, for both paragraphs.

*Right Angle Syndrome

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 10:38 pm

Well, here I go.
Tamriel Rebuilt is a community project, and if you guys look around, we don't have much of a community anymore. And what is even smaller than our base of posting members is our base of modding members. Sure, we have people who will post about what they think is best, and how they would run things if they were in charge. But how many of these people actually step up and give us a hand with doing stuff? One thing I tried to do when I became an Admin was to spread the modding away from the Core and into the member base. However, it has failed, mostly because of Oblivion. More and more people are losing interest in this project and drooling over Oblivion, leaving the Core to take on more and more abandoned work. If anything, the Core is doing MORE work than before I became an Admin.
Now, TR has been a learning curve, and early on there were a lot of mistakes made. Some of these mistakes have been fixed over time, but many have not. For example, let's take a look at the most visible part of our project: the exteriors (hey, that's what I'm in charge of!). We've got our gems and our turds. There are cities by Prom and Kingfish that were the reason I joined this project to begin with, by providing me with an example of modding genius to strive to match in my own work (so far I'm not there yet). Then, we have the bad stuff. Not only do we have claims that are under-detailed, but we have missing cells. Not just cells that have never been finished, I'm talking cells that were never claimed, because there were errors in the way the maps were drawn, and people forgot the cells even existed.
Now the instinctive reaction is "Aw it's okay, open the missing cells for claiming and do detailing on the crummy claims." Well, that was the original plan. But look how Map 1 detailing is going. I posted the Map 1 Detailing thread four months ago. And we aren't done yet. After that, we have five other maps, which are in even worse shape. I don't even want to attempt doing the math at how long the rest will take us.
Interiors have a similar problem, although not as severe, mainly because our HoR has her shit together better than anyone else on this project.
I say this way too often, but I think the most important thing is that we all have fun here. I'm an artist, and I love the proscess of making art. The finished product is not so important to me. Sure I'll admit it some, but it won't be long before I start working on something new. What I love about TR is that there will always be something new to work on. However, as any artist will tell you, when you work on something too long, when you get too involved with the details and keep finding more and more mistakes, you get pissed, and you don't want to do it anymore. Right now, when I browse through the Maps, it's not to admire the work of our modders, it's to find all the errors. And I gotta tell you, I find obscene amounts of errors.
Now, do I think that if we switch to Oblivion before Morrowind is done that we are just dumping our work? Of course not. Nothing we have done will be wasted, because I plan on merging the whole mess and releasing it to the community. Right now, I think that a switch to Oblivion when it is out is exactly what this project needs. Now only will we have a clean slate to work on, but we have learned from all the mistakes that were made in the past. We know what works, what doesn't work, and that will make us strong. The Morrowind engine is experimental at best, and we have all heard the Devs talk about how much better the Oblivion engine is. Why wouldn't we switch?
Face it, our project is shrinking, because we just aren't interesting anymore. We are no longer modding, we are fixing, and it's boring. People are leaving because it's no fun, and the absolute worst thing for us to do would be to just keep smashing our heads into Morrowind.

fanfas · Post by **fanfas** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:08 pm

First... I'm with you dexter... and like i said in my first post in this topic i'm not the most exemplar member... only 1 interior... but as maps will become avaiable i will do more... i'm just waiting to claim the style i like and the ones that i know my skills can do... my int at least was good or so i thought, because no one asked me to correct anything

. Also i will only do what i think i will have fun doing... and this is how it should be.

Sload wrote:I have a bad feeling about saying this..but have the people who want to release what we have now actually explored a lot of our exteriors?

About the releases, if you were talking to me, i never said to release all things now... and move on... NO, we should release things after some quality check... Lets say when i joined this project i downloaded MAP 1 only and start playing it, did i get disapointed... no it was already at a very playable state with all exterior cells and ints... not perfect but looked very nice already and this was 1,5 years ago... or more, now it's better.. what i mean is we can release things as we think they are accepatble as BETAS... just so that people know we are alive and working on things...

Also Dexter, i think that some of us will still be working at MW after OB just because we won't get OB straight away... at least i won't because i don't have the PC to run it

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:12 pm

Dexter, I agree with you (did anyone else join up immediately when they saw Narsis for the first time?) but I don't think switching immediately will be for the best.

I reckon that when Oblivion is released a big, quick decision is taken on which province to do next (Skyrim or Hammerfell it seems). Then the lore experts, modellers and texturers get ready for the switch by working on making the ground textures, plants, architecture, clothes, foods, tableware, books, maps, etc. that will be needed immediately by the exterior makers, and also a working claim map in similar style to the Morrowind maps (which would probably take a couple of months, and it should be done to high standards initially to make sure there is no buggering around fixing past mistakes). Then once there is enough to begin work, exterior then interior claims are released. All this while Morrowind modding goes on.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:51 pm

So. It would be nice if we could organize another IRC channel discussion again. Those were always very nice.

I've noticed a lot of people tend to agree on certain things.
I agree with a lot of the things said here, and I disagree with just as many.

I'm obviously inclined to agree with Dex on everything he's said, but I think a little differently on how we should wrap up Morrowind, even though the end result is the same.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:11 am

If we could make some sort of program to read the basic terrain for Morrowind then convert it to an ESP for Oblivion. We could do Morrowind province really fast, and it wouldn't seem as though we would be starting from scratch. (If this doesn't make sense, then I will post an explaination tommorow.)

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:19 am

@Sload:
A beta release is by definition a work in progress. If somebody finds errors they aren't going to make a huge fuss over it, it would also be a way to get members of the public to provide error reports.

@Morgoth
I didn't mean that the ES3 and ES4 sections would be right beside each other, what I meant was something like this:

-------------TAMRIEL REBUILT---------------

-News
-The Tavern
-The Lounge
-Lore Discussion
-Lit
-etc

----------ES3 modding(link to claiming forum)-------
----------ES4 modding(link to claiming forum)-------

(and yes of course you can call me Ludo *rolls a six*)

@all:
Anybody have any thoughts on whather to release Oot as modders resource?

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:19 am

Damn this got really long. I'll try to be short and sweet.

We shouldn't SWITCH to OB, we should TRANSITION to OB. Gradually. We start right now, this very day. the transition ends when morrowind is done in TES3 with a fully populated world(no quests but everything else)

We first get our shit together, and agree on a province and a method for doing it( I like the idea posed in the next province thread of doing one region at a time fully developed before moving to the next)

Then we gather all the lore we can and have the concept artists draw concept art for that province, and that province alone.

Then, working on the external content that can be done before the tescs is available. We don't know what resolutions and poly counts to use, but we should most definitely ask. if we can't get an answer, we'll use our judgement and add high detail where needed, and go light where we can.

All the while working on morrowind getting all the exteriors filled in and the most needed areas detailed. once thats all done, critical interiors and dungeons. Lets face it, the average peasant house isn't of any real interest, we can just have a locked door that can be linked to a cell by anyone who still wants to work in MW afterwards. Then NPCs and creatures, I suggest changing how we do this and add them into interiors during creation.

Once OB is out, hopefully it'll come with enough, and we'll have enough mod resources to start world building. now MW would become a minimal priority and left to those who want to still work on it.

So much for short and sweet, but at least its broken up into manageable bits

Saibot · Post by **Saibot** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 1:33 am

I had planned to post my thoughts later, but I think Eraser pretty much covered everything I would have said.

Xui'al · Post by **Xui'al** » Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:28 am

My money is with Eraser. I think people just want to get Morrowind out the door and move on. I mean, who really wants to go and repair substandard work from years ago. I would say, lets keep going on Morrowind until OB ships, and then see what happens from there on.

Tamriel Rebuilt

The Official "Let's Talk About The Future Of TR" Thread

The Official "Let's Talk About The Future Of TR" Thread

Re: The Official "Let's Talk About The Future Of TR" Thread

I think...