TR Overhaul

[Dexter]

Over the next few months, until Oblivion comes out, we will be re-structuring the way that Tamriel Rebuilt functions. These are going to be major changes, which we feel are in the best interest of the project.

The biggest change is going to be the introduction of a new class of membership – the TR Modder. TR Modders will be all members who are capable of producing any sort of content that is up to TR standards, and actively do so. To go along with this change, many sections of this forum will be made private, or at least hidden from the standard TR Members and guests. Included will be the Member Downloads section and Claims Browser.

The motivation for these changes is the vast number of members we have who contribute literally nothing, but download like mad. Everywhere on our forums, we see members encouraging us to keep modding, and to press on with Morrowind. And yet, we can all count the number of hard-working modders on two hands.

Meanwhile, the non-modding community of TR will be by no means cut off from the rest of the project. Standard members will still be able to provide input and feedback, and participate in most discussions. We are unsure as to whether or not we will keep the user activation process. There will also be an area for members to showcase their own work. In this area, TR Modders will provide tips on how a standard member can improve their work to TR quality, and thus be promoted to a TR Modder.

And now, for the other big change. We have decided that we WILL be moving to Oblivion. When it comes out, those members that can run it on their systems will get to work feeling the game out, while everyone else does what they can to get their systems to the point of being able to run it. We will decide what province to do next based on the lore offered in Oblivion and popular opinion. At the moment, popular opinion is Hammerfell, but that could change overnight.

Work on TES3 will not be stopped, however. People who wish to continue working on Morrowind in are free to do so, and we are thinking of splitting the modding forums so that the two projects do not overlap and confuse each other.
Now, I’m sure that many of you have complaints, so by all means, complain away.

[Lady Nerevar]

um... no complaints. yey! *first post*

[Xui'al]

Wonderful! Dexter is a god!

How soon will be we see the list of TR Modders? I have a feeling I will be cut out...

[Graff]

Well, I'd guess that if you've ever submitted something that has actually benefitted TR (e.g. an interior or model), you're in.

Good plan guys.

Graff.

[Lady Nerevar]

i think its if you are still submiting stuff that contributes. as far as i remember, your in Xui (based on my own judgement, nothing oficial)

[Annon]

what is the requirements for being a TR modder?

[fanfas]

Well, i made one int and passed with honor (at least if with honor is not having to fix things), Hope i'm in too, because i only didn't do more because there was none that i could do and/or like. Shacks and easy imperial ints is what i'm able to do and know i can do right, so i will do more as soon as some are avaible...

Also is a good idea to sort this thing out before OB, because then You can start modding at full speed i said you because i will probably will not have my new PC yet.

One honor point to Global Admins

[Macar]

I want to say that I support this change. It's odd, since I am definately not a big help around here. But I think that the people who are committed to this project, the guys who do all the work, should be allowed to work in privacy, away from the crittical throngs, who are glad to rip your work appart. Though they contribute nothing.

I think that this move goes against the origanal vision, since the idea was that everyone would contribute, without any sort of auditions or such. However, this new way of doing things will increase productivity because it will cut down on interfearance, and I think that the sence of pride that comes from being recognised as official modder will motivate people.

"and that's all I have to say about that."

[Resadyn]

In any case, I know I haven't really done anything for TR in a month or two, been distracted by other things, like, er... WoW

Hey, you too?

[Morgoth]

I have a feeling I will be cut out...

Heh, you and I both... I do have a few good models though... And don't forget those two books!

[Swiftoak]

Do reviewers automatticaly count as TR modders? Since they know the standards of mods etc?

-Swiftoak-

[Lady Nerevar]

yep, reviewers are automaticly tr moders. partly cuase they do work, and partly becuase they need acces to the files and acces to the claims browser. However, once this system is in place, I will be much more free whith demoting reviewers (gone a month whithout reason = demotion)

[Xui'al]

Heh, you and I both... I do have a few good models though... And don't forget those two books!

I'v done plenty of ints, and I have written several (I think 7, one more on the way) books, but the issue is I like lore, and I am spending more time editing books with Haplo than I am building in the CS.

[Lud]

How many ints do you have to do to get a TR modder status. Will there be a set rule?

[Swiftoak]

(gone a month whithout reason = demotion)

*gasps*

[Lady Nerevar]

If you do work, whether it be claims (like ints and exs), non claims (like books or models), or any other type (as in reviews or core position) and do it often (at least 1 time per month or something) then you’re a moder. However, as far as I understand, your TR moder privileges can be taken away as punishment for minor offences (spamming, flaming, insubordination, etc.)

Disclaimer: this is not official. This is how I think it will be run. I may have read something wrong, or something may change. so if the rules are different by the time this is implemented, don’t blame me.

swift: yep. i can have you people just sitting on your butt all day.... besides, there will be a long period whithout work for us since ints are 3rd in line for bieng made.

[Haplo]

3) When will this be implemted?

We do not know yet but probably after the switch. But public opinion would be nice to hear.

I'd prefer it happen in sync w/ the new year. I think it should be split by Jan. 3rd or so.

[Swiftoak]

I am sorry. I should have provided you with a reason.

[Massalinie]

besides, there will be a long period whithout work for us since ints are 3rd in line for bieng made.

Lady N: All the better for us to catch up with reviews on the morrowind engine!
Oh and you'll notice I did my review, yesturday

And on this new scheme, I agree

[horodnicdragos]

One more thing:OB requires planning and...well I am a simple member and I don't know what will happen so...In this time can I continue working on MW engine?Sorry about this but I am a bit confused.

[kebra]

İ just have take nowledge about this thread,and just read the new anouncement about modder statut.
Sorry but i really don't agree. First,i see no problems about those who dunload without participation,more,it's a good thing not to reserve TR to the happy few and not to have to manage those who are not motivated.The only reason is moral,so stupid.
Second,decid who is able and who is not seems impossible to my eyes.İs a guy doing just a little but high quality work will be refused?Will we have to run after qantities or speedness?A newbees with a long experience will be force to do repetitives interiors for how many months?What kind of pression is that?How much do you pay for that?
Third,TR is a hobby,not a job.İ don't want to feel in the same athmosphere in my hobbies,i understand the need of a hierarchy,but it's OK enough.İ have nothing to do with runing after a statut,real life is enough.İ want TR open and completely free,just because it as to stay a pleasure.
Fourth,it's just demotivating for everybody who want to help but dispose of a little time(or else).Motivation is not a question of quantities.Every help had to be respected and had to open to interesting works.
And last,it's against my way of thinking.
Now,my exemple:my first claim was an exterior,without this possibility,sure that today i will not have been a TR member.Working on it gave me the want to help more,so i have claim some interiors...But,i am working full time,having a family life and also passing a difficult exam.İ still have time for TR,but not much.Sure that i am not alone is this cas,is that mean,that we cannot contribute completely to TR,even slowly?And,all i did is under review,so actually it's like if i did nothing for TR,just spend some months.
So,i have nothing to send to the new thread,and i am really thinking to leave TR(being accepted will change nothing about it)Just i will take the time to see how it works before to decid.My motivation has gone.

[Xui'al]

One more thing:OB requires planning and...well I am a simple member and I don't know what will happen so...In this time can I continue working on MW engine?Sorry about this but I am a bit confused.

Yes, Stalker has anncounced that those without the power to play OB will be able to continue work on Morrowind in the TESIII engine.

[Stalker]

Your reasons are completly not valid and before becoming angry you should try to understand things more.
To become TR modder person will either need to be recognized (if that's the guy who's already a member) as a guy who works or (if he's a newbie) to prove that he can do TR quality work. To prove it they will be given a test (1 interior or 1 ext cell) which, if done good, will be used. We do NOT want to waste any work. If the member's work is not good enough he can still apply after some time.
Review system will be a bit different from current one. That's for sure.
Downloads being open ? No way. They aren't open even now. They are work IN PROGRESS files. They are NOT for public eyes. You don't even imagine how much shit was poured on TR because of people getting WIP maps and thinking the are final.
The idea of open community has also miserably failed. We cannot manage so many people coming and doing nothing, claiming something and dissapearing.
When you are a regular member it all seems to be warm and fuzzy (and beleive me, I also was a regular member and I had to work to make it to the core which was never my intention in the first place but now I'm here but if you'll look from the point of view of managment - it's a disaster.

This decision was not made to limit people in one way or another. The decision was hard. But it was made for the good of the project. Our goal is still quality but without certain progress all these quality stuff is good for nothing.

[Lud]

How long will a member be able to go without producing anything before they lose TR Modder status? I don't have access to the CS while I'm in college, so this is a big worry for me.

Also, what forums will be "TR Modder only"? Will there be "Modder's Tavern" or such? Will the rest of the current forums remain open to the public?

[Stalker]

How long will a member be able to go without producing anything before they lose TR Modder status? I don't have access to the CS while I'm in college, so this is a big worry for me.

For now it is a month. But if a member returns to active duty he will be promoted again immidiatly.

Also, what forums will be "TR Modder only"? Will there be "Modder's Tavern" or such? Will the rest of the current forums remain open to the public?

Public:
-Lounge (which will be now for both public TR and non-TR related discussions probably)
-Concept Art
-New Members'\Recruitment
-Lore
Private:
All the rest.

That is NOT a final list of forums and everything is due to change. So make your suggestions.

[Lud]

Might I suggest that the Literature forum be kept public?
This will allow new members to start on the way to Modder status with books, which is quite a bit less daunting than the CS for people who haven't modded before. It is also a pretty good advertisement for TR, as the quality of some of the work is very good.

[Stalker]

You see the problem with books is that we already have a hell lot of them and they are underused in the interiors. So we need a set list of books we need. That's one. Second is that a member can always post a book in his thread in Recruiting and if it's good - it's good and moved to Lit. Otherwise he'll have to work on it more.

[nakai]

Why would you close all forums? I think the dowload section is enough, cause all the people posting there comments on things help on making those things better, if you only have the opinion of the modders themself you might mis some things. I dont think that the persons who give nothnig about the project exept for playing the maps dont cause that much server burden when they dont dowload anything. Closing the forums will only demotivate new members and be a source of annoyingis for fans who want to keep up with the latest achievements and/or giving critical comments.

(this change will probably mean I will have to download everything before its closed ^^)

[Stalker]

Could you please bother and read some posts in this thread ? Especially my reply to kebra.

[sirwootalot123]

These changes are nothing short of brilliant. We really do need a system to distinguish the people who mod alot, and do it well. Based on past experience with how well I actually crank out work, I doubt I'll become a "TR Modder", but I'd be ecstatic to be one of the peolpe who sort of "probes out" oblivion when that comes out.

I think it should be split by Jan. 3rd or so.

I seriously cant stop laughing... that's EXACTLY when i'm getting my new computer! meaning EXACTLY when I can start up again with contributing. :p

[nakai]

well your reply isnt answering the question why you shouldnt keep the forums public(already read the rest and I get your point)

The idea of open community has also miserably failed. We cannot manage so many people coming and doing nothing, claiming something and dissapearing.

srry but what is the problem about having a high member count? inactive members virtually no lag, and I said the modding parts themself were fine to close

Meanwhile, the non-modding community of TR will be by no means cut off from the rest of the project. Standard members will still be able to provide input and feedback, and participate in most discussions.

I dont agree if the forums you mentioned are the only ones to stay public

[kebra]

OK, thanks to give a real answer.
İ have possibly underestimated some points, I agree that all those revoked claims must be a problem, and I have downloaded enough shits on the net to have an idea on that point. Testing the peoples capacities sound OK.
İn fact what makes me angry is that goes, like wrote Macar, against the original vision. This is a valid debate (not only ideologic or else), if not; I have lost my time here. The problem is to find the good balance between pleasure and efficiency and TR is already so strict (usually I avoid to propose anything and when I want something, I just do it in the hope to see it accepted, I am not joking) that I am afraid for the future. There is a real risk to lost originality, soul, and capacity to listen the others to definitively stay prisoner of a little team (if it’s not already done)(notice that your answer doesn't open any debate,you just shutt me my mouth, but have you listen?). İf the goal is to create a perfect product, does it; you follow the good way even if it’s not mine. When management problems take over the rest there is a real danger.
Don’t take it like an aggressive or stupid request, but really it sound like a dictate, I believe you when you write that this decision has been hard to take, and I believe all the core goods intentions and understand how difficult it can be to manage TR, but I feel uncomfortable and not for nothing. Anyway, I will wait to see how it works.

[Dexter]

Kebra, I understand what you are saying, but we need to face that fact that TR has failed as a totally open project. Just because the original vision gave birth to what TR is today does not mean we have to stick to it. Let's face it, the handful of people who started this project had no idea what they were getting themselves into. If we want to keep from drowning, there are changes we have to make.
Closing off the modding areas of the forums is going to be one of the best possible moves we have made for the increasing of efficiency. I can't begin to tell you how much AWOL claimers damage the progress of TR. We need to have a modding group that we can keep track of, so that we can keep everything organized. There is nothing saying that our modder group has to be small. It is limited in size only by the number of members who qualify. No matter how big our modder group gets, we will be able to keep track of things much better this way.

[Stalker]

The thing is that currently "big team" is nothing but an illusion. For all the time I was here there were maximum of 15 people doing anything. What is the purpose of maintaining the illusion ? While it seems to be going agains the original idea of open community it goes against it only half. Everybody can apply unlimited amount of times. Consider it as an extra quality control. We are allowing the people who can do good stuff to actually do it.
What we are doing is while "closing" the project from one point of view ("OMG !!111!! I won't be able to get WIP maps and than say they suck !") we are opening it from another point of view allowing the people who actually contribute to have their own cozy place to chat, to know each other better and to participate in TR life. I don't see how it clacifies as being imprisoned in a small team.


2nakai
There's no problem in having a high member count. You are still not understanding what I'm saying. It's not about member count but about people who come, claim and dissapear. Or come, claim, submit shit and dissapear.

I dont agree if the forums you mentioned are the only ones to stay public

Why ? What else do you need if you aren't doing any actual work ?

[nakai]

2nakai
There's no problem in having a high member count. You are still not understanding what I'm saying. It's not about member count but about people who come, claim and dissapear. Or come, claim, submit shit and dissapear.

like I said its fine to close the claiming and dowloading......

Why ? What else do you need if you aren't doing any actual work ?

but why WOULD you close those forums to the rest of the members? are they incapable of saying something usefull?

[Lady Nerevar]

Quite simply, no. People who can mod will be awarded TR-moder status, and will be able to provide criticism. People who cannot mod will most likely have nothing useful to say. And "wow! I love your work! Keep up the great work dude" doesn’t count as a constructive comment.

Also, I guess if someone really wanted criticism from people who are not moders, he could just post a file or some pictures in the public tavern.

[edited for spelling]

[nakai]

people who can not mod will most likeley have nothing usefull to say

.....

I will take that as a "yes, they cant" to my question

[Dexter]

Nakai, we aren't cutting normal members out from the project. Normal, non-modding members are quite capable of saying useful things, which is why there will be a TR discussion board for them. We are closing off the modding-related sections of the forum, so that only modders are there.
Normal TR members will still be able to participate in TR-related discussions. All we want to do with this change is ensure that we can keep track of our modders.

[Lady Nerevar]

people who can not mod will most likeley have nothing usefull to say

.....

I will take that as a "yes, they cant" to my question

nothing usefull in the terms of feedback to claims. honestly, theres not much feedback as it is, and when its given its given by moding members.

as dex said, there will still be discusion boards for regular members, so they can chat away. and i DID NOT mean that regualr members had nothing to say.

[Dexter]

Honestly Lady N, you don't think that a member who cannot mod cannot provide good criticism, do you?