WSG#3 [A] Life in a desert village from afar.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:20 am

[WSG#3][A]Life in a desert village from afar.

In the first week we looked at ancient ruins and temples in the deep desert which helped generate ideas about
exploration areas. Last week we discussed how a market/bazaar would appear in a desert town. This week
we're continuing with the desert theme to develop our comprehesive vision of the desert.

This week's topic is very open ended, as we try to develop desert life in the arid deserts of Hammerfell. You have
an opportunity to design the look and feel of a desert town. Imagine yourself on a cliff of desert rock, or at the
top of a high dune, and laid out before you in the distance is a small town filled with people barely carving out
an existence in this harsh climate.

There is no major source of water save for a groundwater well.
There is no major vegetation; only minor shrubs and cacti.

1. How do these people live?

2. How do they get food? Do they recieve food and supplies from neighboring cities through use of desert caravans?

3. Or do they persist entirely off the food they can make by raising cattle and livestock? If so, How do the herds graze?

Are they semi-nomdic people who move to different villages and graze their cattle in different places?

4. Do they harness the power of the wind in some way?

Remember, the topic is, "Life in a desert Village from a far". This means we should get a whole view of the small town
from an outside perspective. Additionally, you'll have to decide what the buildings look like and how they are arranged (mudbrick, sandstone, ect.)

I know this seems pretty complicated, and i've put a lot in front of you, but feel free to truly "sketch" on this WSG.
Its a large topic and we'll explore more concepts if we don't exhaust ourselves on time consuming pieces. Spend thirty minutes
on a sketch, clean it up with an eraser and upload it. After the initial discussion has started maybe we can spend time on more
elaborate paintings, and we'll have a better idea of what we're facing.

The last two weeks have been excellent and I look forward to your contributions this week. Have fun and let your imagination go nuts.

Links of interest:

http://www.danheller.com/sahara.html
http://www.saharamet.com/desert/photos/Sahara.html
http://www.pbase.com/desertsky/sahara
http://movies.about.com/library/weekly/blsaharapicsa.htm

FAQ: http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15318

Guidelines: http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15316

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Conclusions and Reflections.

1. Many different cities arranges in various ways.

2. Possibly many cities are built next to or into mountains to provide shelter from the sun.

3. Both Nomadic Camps and Large cities can be found in the Desert.

4. Perhaps some cities will be aranged in divisions so as to seperat the nobles from the commoners from the poor.

5. Architecture styles vary, adapting to the environmental surroundings of each area.

6. Vast trade routes would be established between even the most minor of cities, camels and native species being used as transport.

7. Cities depend heavily on deep, wide wells from which they recieve water.

Art Submissions:

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downsizeddesertvillage9ux.jpg][img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3417/downsizeddesertvillage9ux.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clifftown2be.jpg][img]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/7091/clifftown2be.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Mr. Sorry Of Balmora

------------------------------------

[url=http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5407/town29xy.jpg][img]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5407/town29xy.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Lutemoth

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[url=http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfdeserttownconcept3xz.jpg][img]http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6955/hfdeserttownconcept3xz.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Dexter
-----------------------------------

[url=http://img73.imageshack.us/my.php?image=villagefromfaraway0jv.jpg][img]http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6568/villagefromfaraway0jv.th.jpg[/img][/url]

The Old Ye Bard

-----------------------------------

[url=http://img481.imageshack.us/my.php?image=mowsg33vg.jpg][img]http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/2115/mowsg33vg.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Morden

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[url=http://img427.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfcamp0hs.jpg][img]http://img427.imageshack.us/img427/7712/hfcamp0hs.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Nalzay

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[url=http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1213183119.jpg&s=x12][img]http://x12.putfile.com/1/1213183119-thumb.jpg[/img][/url]

Morgoth
---------------------------------

[img]http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9196/village6et.th.jpg[/img]

Macar

---------------------------------

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=minercamp1pq.jpg][img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4181/minercamp1pq.th.jpg[/img][/url]

SwedishFish

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[url=http://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=desertcliffsidevillagewwalllar.jpg][img]http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/3159/desertcliffsidevillagewwalllar.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Jack
-------------------------------

[url=http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Swiftoak/WSG3_SW_2.jpg][img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Swiftoak/WSG3_SW_thumb2.jpg[/img][/url]

Swiftoak Woodwarrior
-------------------------------

[url=http://img374.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wsg32cd.jpg][img]http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/5326/wsg32cd.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Vholdrian

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[url=http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfnomadcamp1vd.jpg][img]http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4571/hfnomadcamp1vd.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Xroninbasho23

-------------------------------

[url=http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normadichammerfell2ae.jpg][img]http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/8664/normadichammerfell2ae.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerfelltown4ty.jpg][img]http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/4778/hammerfelltown4ty.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Drizzt Do'Urden

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[url=http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=horodnicdragos0cf.jpg][img]http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/3686/horodnicdragos0cf.th.jpg[/img][/url]

HorodnicDragos

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[url=http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=massalinie1sb.jpg][img]http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/6876/massalinie1sb.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Massalinie

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[url=http://img380.imageshack.us/my.php?image=silverwood6bo.jpg][img]http://img380.imageshack.us/img380/1525/silverwood6bo.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Silverwood

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Thanks everyone, I hope you continue to participate in the future Weekly Sketch-Group topics.

Edited by Morgoth

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:54 am

The Alik'r nomads (sometimes called dunedwellers, I believe) are definitely the main population.

[T]he numerous nomadic tribes...wander the desert...[and] are...primitive, either with trace-Nedic influences or stubbornly Yokudan, throwback castaways even to other Redguards. Devotees of Satakal the Serpent God are strewn among them, historically causing the A'likr border-states no end of strife.

This is information from the PGE about the Alik'r nomads. I cut out the really big bs, about them biting people's ankles and roling in the mud, but I doubt they actually cause problems in the cities.

Though no real desert towns were mentioned in lore, I imagine something small wouldn't be placed on the maps, and there's no reason that they couldn't exist. Y'all have the full liberty of having nothing specifically written.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:19 am

Just a small note. Alik'r in Daggerfall has more cities than highly populated US state which is pretty much rediculous.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:51 pm

Weren't most of these "cities" actually nothing more than a grouping of two or three buildings, though?

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 12:56 pm

Or inns\pubs.

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:32 pm

I'm about half way through mine and I was wondering how many buildings are needed. Right now I have a center, one trade center, and a cheap watch post for smuglers. Should I bother putting all of the misc buildings and homes? Or should I stick to key parts of the settlement like the trading?

*edit*

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a153/Gladiat0r/Scan10014.jpg
The tower is to look out for smugglers/ looters.
The center building is an indoor trade center.
The odd looking building to the right is like a greenhouse, here they can grow the little plants they need to feed their few livestock.
Traders are this villages main source of needs. Without them, they would be stranded with barly enough water and not enough water to give to their plants and animals.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:09 pm

Use as many buildings as you think are necessary.. but i'd encourage you to include even the random houses. The tower is a good idea, cause i'm sure that would let you see for miles in the desert, though the greenhouse might not be needed because plants would get too much heat and sunlight in the desert as it is. You might consider growing plants underground though.

-------

I'd like to help you on your use of perspective, if i may. Your houses sort of fall at weird angles. Sometimes the roof of one house looks like its falling under the floor of its neighbor. If you draw some perpective guidelines before you lay out your houses it will look a lot more realistic and it will help you keep things more organised.

Check out these links:

In this one i've highlighted the perspective on a number of your buildings. In the future, try to get those lines going parallell to eachother.

http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/5606/perspective29ia.jpg

Here is a setup for a basic perspective guide. Try it out.

http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/2613/perspective3sa.jpg

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:22 pm

Thanks, I was just doing a bit of sketching though. I didnt realize how terrible the angles on some of the houses were though. I tries to make the vanishing point right in the center space of the trade house and tower.

You'll see that the perspective changes alot in my Extravegant Building that I've been working on. It's nearly done, and i've spent weeks putting details and getting the perspective right.

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:25 pm

I don't know If I'm going to submit anything this weak since I'm no good with buildings. But I just wanted to comment that desert dwellers usualy build near water. When they do build in the desert they usualy have a really good reason. The Egyptians usualy built deep desert towns because they were close to gold mines. Other reasons for settleing such areas might be; religous significance of area (like the place where so&so killed so&so), or for a small group to escape modernity (like quakers).

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:52 pm

If you're more comfortable with people, how about drawing a caravan moving towards a city in the distance? If the caravan, or the animal herding is your focus, the city won't have to be as detailed... just so long as people can tell its a small town made of huts or something. This topic is very open.

PS. If you're not good at drawing something, consider this the place to experiment.

Mr. Sorry of Balmora · Sat Jan 07, 2006 11:31 pm

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downsizeddesertvillage9ux.jpg][img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3417/downsizeddesertvillage9ux.th.jpg[/img][/url]

when the river dried, this bustiling town was suddlenly stricken with a ghost town atmosphere and soon became one. over 2 years the town was beat and batered by sandstorms and very few of the origional buildings are left. 2 monthss ago ths last resident to leave the original town returned seeing the cacti and dried shrubes he harvested them and restablished the wind-mill that was used to grind grain only now it is used to grind the shrubs. The cacti he harvests and filters water fron to mix with the ground shrubs, the pulp mixture is a cure to some diseases. This of course makes up half of the villages income.

The other half of the village income comes from the training school, it is set this far out for the master is a well known Redguard weapons master. he states "Anyone willing to come this far must be willing to learn." so far only three men and one woman are at this school their rooms are located in a buliding just outside the school it is only the entrance to their quarters which are underground.

A singel caravan comes three times a month bring fresh supplies of food and healing items. It is then loaded with the cure potins to be sold in a distant town. With the money that is made the caravaneer buys supplies for the little village and takes a little for himself as the potion maker told him to.

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:34 am

You are a rather creative one, arn't you? This seems like an excellent idea for a town in Hammerfell. Your concept needs just a few more buildings though, for their homes. If this village actually is made for TR, I have another idea.

This town is going to run short on water soon, the cactus won't be able to grow fast enough, and trade won't be able to suply more water without the potions. As Morden said earlier, underground garden. Have a building that is used for the digging of the tunnels and the harvesting of the water and plants that grow beneath. This seems to support the town even a tad bit more.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:45 am

I drew a small village. (Actually, not even a village, a tiny cluster of buildings) that consists of a small pub, market and houses. In the background a giant sun is setting (something typically seen in African regions), and in the foreground, some crappily drawn sand dunes slowly creeping towards the settlement. There is a caravan full or ingredients heading in from the west (possibly Sentinel), delivering supplies to the local market. The guy in the stall is signaling the caravan. Also there is some cracked earth meaning the condtitions are very dry.

[img]http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a331/Swiftoak/WSG3_SW_1.jpg[/img]

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:39 am

I'm not sure what the situation is with Hammerfell and it's rock erosion topography, but here's my interpretation
[url=http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5196/town9lp.jpg][img]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9575/town4vp.th.jpg[/img][/url]

This quiet village is unusually developed for it's rarity of contact with outside civilization. Strong, menacing walls, once simple palisades to obstruct wild animals, built up within a decade to defend against the raiders from the south, whom recently began invading not too long ago.

Watch towers have been situated above and around this town, seeing as the bridges overhead are the only exit of the box canyon, save for the kilometers from the canyon's entrance. Undeniably, this route for caravans is the most treacherous.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:06 am

very nice Lutemoth.

The canyon walls would also provide lots of shade.

Here is a link to Zephyr's WIP hammerfell map which we can use as a reference for the western desert region.
http://www.kolumbus.fi/zombie/hf.jpg

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:17 am

Yes, that does suit the trek between Sentinel and Lainlyn I was thinking about. The canyon walls do provide a lot of shade, yes. In fact, It can get quite frozen at night in that badland region, and stay cold for much of the day.

Vholdrian · Post by **Vholdrian** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 1:34 pm

Very nice one lutemoth

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 2:36 pm

Perhaps this city couldbe a main stop for agriculture.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:30 pm

Here's something I've done:

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d51/horodnicdragos/concept2.jpg

And Morden:I don't think you want to see how I draw.

Colhir · Post by **Colhir** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:33 pm

thats very nice horodnic but isnt concept art ment to be drawn not modeled or how ever you did it? correct me if i'm wrong.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:38 pm

Yes...well it's a model and then I touched it up with paint shop pro...please tell me if I am wrong.

As I said my drawings are awfull.So I don't want to scare the people here.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:44 pm

Quite good for the concept.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:09 pm

A friendly reminder.

4. Upload your image to a free image hosting website and post the link at TR. This is to save bandwidth which our host Garfield supplies to us for free. We strongly recommend:

www.imageshack.de

It will not resize your photos like other free image hosts.
Also, please do not put the images directly on the site; link or thumbnail the image instead.

Ã‚Â· Can we chat in WSG threads or should we only post art?
It is hoped that during this seven day period, contributors will feed off eachothers work, and further develop their ideas.
Feel free to post comments and critiques, but please keep it on topic, and as brief as possible. Posts considered spam will be deleted to keep the thread organised.

Mr. Sorry of Balmora · Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:13 pm

ok i made a slight ajust ment to my photo per Silverwoods request

[url=http://img297.imageshack.us/my.php?image=downsizeddesertvillage9ux.jpg][img]http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/3417/downsizeddesertvillage9ux.th.jpg[/img][/url]

i added a small two story house

i moved the weapons master's school and addeda sparing ring on the roof of new building

i also added an underground chasm for the potion maker to grow certian cacti

*looks over at Alo Vera plant hoping it not dead*

Whew, i guess some cacti prefer dark, mildly dry places

Silverwood · Post by **Silverwood** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:32 pm

Much better. Now its more realistic and a very good idea that fit together. Good Job.

Mr. Sorry of Balmora · Sun Jan 08, 2006 6:54 pm

thanks but i'm fighting on wether or not to add a small undreground refuge as a means of escape from Sandstorms

Massalinie · Post by **Massalinie** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:30 pm

Well, i've been following along with these, and this time i think i'll post my drawing, I wouldn't call it finished, but i don't know what to do with those spaces so, any tips would be appreciated.
Also i don't have a scanner, so the quality is a bit yucky. Apologies for that;
[url=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/massalinie/Tamriel%20Rebuilt/DesertTown008.jpg]Clickem[/url]

Mr. Sorry of Balmora · Sun Jan 08, 2006 8:37 pm

i would add some ~'s and a smal dungeon outside and a ways off Massilinie.

Edit:

It is wonderful for you first participation.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:33 pm

Lutemoth wrote: [url=http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/5196/town9lp.jpg][img]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/9575/town4vp.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Official concept for Vulnim Gate. Nice job on it.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:05 am

And when it will be possible i will try to claim it. Great.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:34 am

[url=http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hfdeserttownconcept3xz.jpg][img]http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6955/hfdeserttownconcept3xz.th.jpg[/img][/url]
Meh, I felt like being loose with this one.

horodnicdragos · Post by **horodnicdragos** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:37 am

Wow...

I wished to have your skills.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:47 am

[url]http://img381.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normadichammerfell2ae.jpg[/url]

here is my submission. Showing the Tribial chief's tent, and a commoner to compare.

[url]http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerfelltown4ty.jpg[/url]

My second submission is of a desert township nesteled between two mountians, where the citizens wall mine, and masons are abundant. Fur and Hide traders wait outside the city to sell there wears in the market square. The Dwellings and those who dwell inside are well protected by the many guards, and thier great spires, where they see for miles and miles, and the walls where sand crashes and breaks upon it like water on rock.

Cyax · Post by **Cyax** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:08 pm

Just a little thing, i dont know exactly how Hammerfell deserts are, but a good portion of deserts on earth do not have much wood you can use to build with, meaning they would have to import it. And for Lutemoths cool canyon city i think the villagers should have their own gardens on their roofs, and the bridges town would likely be made entirely of rope.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:34 pm

Nice work Dex and Drizzt.

It looks like we're moving towards a 'city in the mountains' type town. Thats great, as there are plenty of mountains in the Alik'r desert.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/zombie/hf.jpg

sxotty · Post by **sxotty** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:36 pm

Putting it in a canyon is a poor idea, putting it into the canyon walls is a good idea. Every desert with rock like that is subject to flash floods and they would destroy the entire town if it were in the canyon bottom.

Building the dwellings on the walls though would be very useful and cool, with sandstone you could simply carve a house into the canyon side, the main issue would be how to get from house to house, whether they are interiors or preferably exteriors, with rope bridges etc... anyway good luck. If you have dwellings you can stick to the side of a cliff like mud daubber nests it would be nifty as well, but carving them out makes more sense, though it would have a much better effect on the player if they jutted out than if they were caves.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:30 am

I felt I would be doing myself a favor, as well as the community by replacing my older submission of the town with a more detailed shading here:
[url=http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5407/town29xy.jpg][img]http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/5407/town29xy.th.jpg[/img][/url]
as for what sxotty mentioned, I can understand how potentially flawed this canyon is.

on a lighter note, I love the conceptuals, Drizzt and Dex. The mountainous regions is very familiar in a earthy relation to such remote places as the Afghan mountains

Resadyn · Post by **Resadyn** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:31 am

Morden wrote:http://www.kolumbus.fi/zombie/hf.jpg

Is that the official Hammerfall map?

sxotty wrote:Putting it in a canyon is a poor idea, putting it into the canyon walls is a good idea. Every desert with rock like that is subject to flash floods and they would destroy the entire town if it were in the canyon bottom.

Why would there be falsh floods in the desert?

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 12:35 am

Flash floods can be common in such areas like the grand canyon. Essentially, any place that has had the time to develop a dry canyon must undergo some water errosion, I'd assume.

Wait a minute-- the Vulnim Gate?? Yozza yow, I'm honored!

sxotty · Post by **sxotty** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:56 am

Flash floods are very common in the desert. It is a very nice picture I really don't want to diss your work, it is lovely.

If you adjusted it so the village was on the sides, or so the gate was between some pillars instead of in a canyon then it would work I suppose.

Still I think some cliff dwellings would have the potential to be pretty amazing but they could be used somewhere else.