I know I am not in charge of anything anymore, I just want this discussed and settled for good to know what to expect from TR in the future.
Few days ago I posted my ideas about TR Quest policy into another thread, yet they stayed ananswered. Maybe it is just because this topic is irrelevant, but perhaps I did post in the wrong thread.
If this is second time you read this and do not find it worth replying, just ignore.
TR and quests: (hum, hum...)
This is the weakest link of TR project and I think it is not only lack of capacities, but also lack of some intelligent policy.
Previous policy of TR was: Lets make exteriors, interiors, NPC's and then stick some quests on them in a way Bethesda would do it. Lets do it by maps.
This policy failed. Now we are in situation that:
I) Lots of people is going to switch to Oblivion sooner or later and our priority is to finalize ours work on Morrowind and bring it to some reasonable and releasable end.
II) Our capacities and I am afraid not even capacities of TES III engine allow us to make the quests same way they were made in original game.
Therefore:
1) Our main and perhaps only priority is to make a MQ.
a) Most of eventual players of TR will play no more then 2-3 guilds and 10 percents of misc. quests. Everyone will be interested in MQ and everyone will play it.
b) Main Quest is what keeps the whole mod together and turns it to actual PLAYABLE thing.
c) We can make the MQ very epical, exciting and such that will bring player to crucial jewels of TR like Narsis or Kemel-Ze. Everybody has already killed stupid nix-hounds in anonymous eggmine for some looser from the docks dozen times in TES III.
SOLUTION: Make creation of MQ priority to simple "filling" of maps by random misc. quests stuff. Each quest, which is part of MQ is worth 50 misc. quests. And it is more fun to make these.
2) I sugggest that we abandon idea of making "mainland" version of all original TES III guilds. There are more reasons for this:
a) I see no reason why there would be another 12 quests for all of old guilds on map 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6... When we got to writing quest plots for map 2 guilds, lots of people insisted there should even be 2 Mages guild questlines on map 2, as there are two mages guilds on map 2 (Darconis and Neommaenor). Now take number of the core guilds (MG,FG,TG,IL,IC,TE,MT,House) multiply by 6 maps (minimum) and 10 quests. You get 480 quests in total. And now take the sum of guild quests ever finished (10). THis is simply beyond ours capacities.
b) I also disagree with this idea for logical reasons. Imagine player being Archmage of Mages Guild, coming to Firewatch. There he is told: It is nice that you are an Archmagister on Vvardenfell and that your magical skills are far beyond those of any of us, but it is just simply "another Mages Guild". Now go and fetch some shrooms.
c) Last but not least. I disagree for game reasons. WHo the hell will be interested in working out from noob to archmagister in six provincial Mages guilds. Isn't it something he already did before? We must take in account, that players playing TR will usually be advanced in original guilds and be very high level. What would be their motivation to play these guilds? We must offer them something new and fresh, which will offer development to more advanced characters.
SOLUTION:
All the guilds quarters will of course stay and will offer standard services to members like training, enchanting, teleport etc. but mostly purchase of some more advanced equipment. But they will offer no carrier and if PC will want to join them they will just say: "Thanks, we can manage our business here and need no new people. If you are looking to join, try Vvardenfell. Our bases there are quite new and there is still lot of work to do." Possibly some members could offer some "members only" quests, but these should be rather advanced and difficult, with worthy reward.
Instead we must fully develop TR's own potential in new guilds, because they offer new gaming aspect which cannot be found in the original game. Moreover these guild can be designed for advanced characters and promise high level rewards (Daedric cults seem a good choice).
One more thing: I do by no means intend to scrap all the brain work that has been done on developing guild questlines so far. I respect the work of others and I do also respect my work as lots of these are my creation Lets just say I have a plan how to integrate carefully best of these ideas to MQ. You can trust me, I can do this well.
3) Miscellaneous quests must not necessiraly be in our first official TR release. We can just make filler NPC'S with some regional dialogue and then add misc. quests when we desire. Also when Morrowind is released, lots of people will think: Here is some mod that WORKS and there is still place to put there my 2ps without fear they will be wasted in some megalomanical project. With Zephyr's new ingenious claiming system this will be very easy to manage. But I guess there will be also lots of unofficial "TR enlarging mods".
So I think all we really should do is:
Finish Exteriors, Interiors, NPC'S offering services.
Gather action team of 4-5 willing, able and motivated members. If everyone succeeds in writing 10 quests, we have already created a game.
Do some f***ing awesome main quest.
(not compulsary: Make TR specific guilds)
Make filler NPC'S, including them in Zeph's NPC databes as possible objects for further quest creation.
Take it easy...
I don't know what else to say than that you've obviously given this a lot more thought than I have. If you're able to do something about making the main quest happen, do it. You already have all the mod powers (I think), although you're honorary member by title.
Thank you, now I will probably work out general MQ scheme, then gather some questmakers and divide the job and let them fill the scheme with their ideas. However the work cannot be completed until whole of exteriors and interiors are finished. But if you give me word say map 1, 2 are finalized in means of exteriors and interiors, we can start by making these parts.
So here is original MQ suggested by Kasan Moor:
Background:
During the reign of Jagar Tharn, he had in place a network of alies and supporters. This group was instrumental in preventing the truth of Tharn's usurping the Emperial Throne from coming to light. When the Eternal Champion defeated Jagar Tharn, only Tharn himself was stopped. His network of supporters continued to exist and operate behind the scenes, hoping for another chance to make a play for power.
In the book series, the Real Barensiah, it describes an incident in which Barensiah is impregnated by Jagar Tharn. As this lose end is never followed up with either a live birth or an abortion, we will assume for the purpose of this project that Tharn's son was born to Barensiah and later taken in by the network of Tharn's supporters.
Summary:
The conspiracy of Jagar Tharn's supporters are making anothr grab for power using Tharn's son as a figurehead. In each of the provinces of Tamriel, they are nurturing the local problems that will ultimately weaken the Empire enough for a complete takeover to be possible. It is up to the player to discover the root cause of the provincial problems, to stablize the Empire, and to destroy this conspiracy once and for all.
In this chapter of the Tamriel Main Quest, the network of conspirators who supported Jagar Tharn are making a move against Imperial power in Morrowind. Through covert actions they will attempt to instigate a full scale House War. It will be up to the player to keep the tensions of the Great Houses of Morrowind from spilling out into the streets. While holding back the blood tide, the player must uncover the conspiracy that is working against the Third Empire of Men.
The Empire in Morrowind:
The prophecies have always said that the Nerevarine will unite the Dunmer Great Houses and drive the foreigners from Morrowind. Now we can't say whether the prophecies are actualy all true, but all events point in the direction that the prophecy is true and you truly are Nerevar reborn.
In that case, the Empire presence in Morrowind (which is probably meant by "foreigners"; although there might be some discussion as to this is meant) should be driven from Morrowind by the player himself. With the crumbling power of the Empire, it will not be a surprise that a province as Morrowind, quite hostile to the empire, would be rebelling against them. It is well known among men and mer that the Empire's power is not as grand as it used to be and that there might be a way to defeat them.
With the coming of the supposed Nerevarine this feeling would only increase. With the recent events at Red Mountain and Mournhold (it will be accepted that Almalexia and Sotha Sil are truly dead and that the Tribunal has fallen) the feeling of an uphand revolution will only be strengthened.
Now stating all this it would be no surprise when I say that the Imperial presence in Morrowind should be removed. It might be hard to script or create this without changing Vvaardenfell, but all events so far point in this direction, and I think we cannot deny it. All Great Houses will eventually agree in the war against the Empire, although some houses (Hlaalu) might be very hard to convince. I do not have a full picture of how it will actually happen, I am just suggesting it SHOULD happen since everything points in that direction.
Now this is my version, what should really happen (allow me to make a double post for this):
CONSPIRACY
To lead PC to our MQ we will have to touch original game a bit (BLASPHEMY !).
Lets add to Sellus Gravius first dialogue a mention that Caius Cosades mission will be part of Tamriel Rebuilt Project. But when PC asks on this, he will direct you to Caius Cosades. Now there are two options:
i) Caius will not be willing to speak about it until TES III MQ is completed and Dagoth Ur is killed.
ii) He will speak with no conditions. (I go for choice i as it gives more sense)
So what is Tamriel Rebuilt Project?
It is secret political strategy to reinforce and stabilize emperor's influence over Tamriel. Recently empire is in crisis. Here in Morrowind the old alliances are weakening. King Helseth is weak and has no authority, Tribunal is fighting together and dealing with the problems of the past and break out of anarchy is at hand. To stabilize this province PC will have to use his authority and gather all great five houses to discuss new political order of the Morrowind. Emperor is willing even to withdraw his forces from Morrowind, as this province eats more resources then what is the outcome (see Eastern provinces).
1. DIPLOMATIC TRAINING
PC is asked to go to Old Ebonheart and join order of Imperial Knights, where he will be given training to manage this mission. Following Jale's plan for this guild, there will be choice of 3 patrons, who will train PC as: 1.1 Diplomat
OR 1.2 Secret agent(TG quests)
OR 1.3 Elite Guard (FG quests)
Once PC is finished he is ready for actual negotiations.
2. PREPARATIONS FOR COUNCIL
PC will now have to negotiate with all heads of great houses and make them agree to sit behind the round table. But if his dispositions and reputation are not high enough they will refuse even to speak. So to get some attention PC will have to raise his reputation with these houses doing some quests. So we have: 2.1. Telvanni
(will include Kemel-ze with IAS and scavengers conflict for guards OR solution of map 1 conflict with Legion and mages guild for agents - Telvanni members) (MAPS 1,2)
2.2. Redoran (MAP 5)
2.3. Indoril (MAP 3)
(Will require solution of Imperial Cult vs. Temple vs. daedric cults problem for agents or doing some dirt job for guards - Telvanni members)
2.4. Hlaalu (MAP 4)
2.5. Dres (MAP 6)
Now at the end all representatives of great houses agree to meet at neutral soil in Necrom and discuss future of the Morrowind.
3. THE COUNCIL AND ITS AFTERMATH
The head of Imperial knights warns you that they have echo about members of terroristic group named "heirs of the empire" who want to make attack on Dunmer chiefs. You must find out about this organization, infiltrate it or destroy it or secure the meeting.
3.1. Find out who are these terrorists
3.2. Infiltrate them to get specifics about their organization and plan of ambush
3.3. Secure the meeting
3.4 However the leader of the group discovers your identity and you are attacked and escape from prison saving your bare life.
3.5. Now you must join the meeting and negotiate with chiefs and take care of the security as well. Suddenly the meeting is attacked by group of liches. Heads of great houses are killed and so is governor of OE.
3.6.
From now on rebelion starts, Dunmer get hostile to you, because they think you have been part of Imperial plot to take over Morrowind. Dunmer militia appear all over Morrowind fighting with Imperial forces.
3.7.
You need to escape from Morrowind. Last words of the governors are you should conntact his advisor some nightblade who helped you to infiltrate the group and find out about this treachery. However when you arrive OE you find out, that he was part of the group as well and just used you to give you false informations about tha planned attack. Now he is on escape and you have to stop him. Fight in an epic battle with this mage, but when he is hurt, he teleports away. In his belongings you find some evidence he had to link to the underking in Hammerfell.
The prophecy is filled. Great dunmer houses are united by you and Empire is driven from Morrowind in consequence of your actions. But you are not the hero in the end, how ironic...
I love it except for calling that group terrorists and actually using the words Tamriel Rebuilt Project, I don't want TR to refer to modern times in any way. Simply conspirators would be good enough, or they could be made elements of the Mythic Dawn we see in oblivion, or the dark brotherhood in the employ of them(or people from hammerfell)
When it comes to hammerfell and the underking, we have some lore and daggerfall plot endings to worry about.
"There is no dark side of the moon really. Matter of fact, it's all dark."
I agree, it looks good -- nice twist at the end as well. Small logistic problem with using reputation for establishing meetings (unless by rep you meant just doing some quests): players with high personality and an available source of Telvanni bug must may skip that part. I'm guessing you meant "do some quests," but just making sure . . .
Only the prospect of death makes life worth living.
I have to say, I really like the MQ plot. I would recommend that the heads of the houses don't get killed, just the ambassadors that they sent. If the heads were all killed:
1) There'd be no possibility to make house quests afterwards.
2) It would also lead to incredible upheaval in Morrowind.
3) It would neccesitate scripted dialogue changes for all the cities where the house leaders live. ("someone in particular" topic)
Also, there's no reason why the quests can't be added gradually. Before each mainland faction questline was finished, there could just be a "sorry, no work at the moment" topic. Lots more quests could be added in v1.1, etc.
Quset creation is something that I intend to get into when Map 1's NPCs, int and exes are finished.
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
Well, here it comes. Now I do not know exactly what is the stage of map 1, but I think as soon as it gets released and as soon as I will have Stalker's word on that this version will not be completely scraped and remade, we should start working on Telvanni part.
I was already playing around with CS and writing some of my ideas for the line, but I want it to be collective job so I will bring them into discussion once the time is ready and team of questers is assambled.
For now, lets not get much into detail planing, as seperating concept part and moding part of quests was one of the reason why I think so few quests were done.
When someone mods an exterior he has only vague preconcept of it from the map and can make the rest out of his head. Moding somene elses formed quest ideas is the most bothersome dialogue-script manufacture.
1. I do not believe we should have a mainquest. This is a personal opinion sedimented into my mind, and there's no changing it. It's like coke or pepsi.
2. I am of the opinion that quests will never be made on the Morrowind engine. This is one of those inevitable facts that you'll notice if you look around. I believe firmly that the project's continuation with the Morrowind engine will not last long, because the simple truth is that the Morrowind engine is already killing our productivity.
However, that second one is also a reason for me not to care. I don't want any time wasted on quests for Morrowind. I also expect that this idea would not carry over to Oblivion, as the arguements hold no water when we're creating a seperate project.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
Well I can understand your point, especially after your serious attempts to make some quests for TR came in vain. My premises are just two:
1) Morrowind must be finished in TES III at any cost, otherwise all the work on it will go down the drain.
2) Finishing Morrowind means including at least Main Quest, if no other quests.
The conclusion is: The Morrowind will have MQ, should I write it myself.
But perhaps Oblivion will be so brilliant I will forget about Morrowind immediately and start moding in TES IV CS. I just hope all these expectations of miraculous abilities of TES IV engine are not too optimistic, if I consider current trend of simplification and "consolification" in computer games.
I like what you wrote in the first post, and you made an interesting MQ proposal. I have a couple of problems though:
- Like Sload, I don't think that quests will ever be made. I feel as though we should do what has been suggested by non-TR people and create a bit of a blank slate, with all interiors, exteriors and NPCs in place. Maybe even add a couple of misc quests into the mix. But our efforts should be made into getting ints and exts done before anything else.
- I don't like the idea of a MQ. But that is irrelevant.
- We can't make a MQ until Oblivion has been released. The outcome of the MQ has to match what has happened in Morrowind in TESIV at the end of the day, and Bethesda aren't saying anything. For all we know, the Nerevarine becomes a cannibal who joins Crasius Curio's theatre troupe.
I'm sorry but Sload's post is a mass of contradiction...
If the Morrowind project is not going to be completed as Sload believes, then why is any work going on at all. If it's a waste of time to make quests for morroind then isn't it a waste of time to do anyting on the current project...
If the project came this far then it must be completed, if it's not well then, theres no stamina here. An if the project is relesed in wat ever state, having no quests or an MQ is just stupid. There would be no point for any of this to exist. IOt would be a waste.
An MQ is a must or this work has been a joke. Even if the whole propject is not done, at least there will be a reason for it to at least exist.
"The Dragon Breaks the Temple wall,
The flood will drown our Gods!
Break down the wall
And let another kingdom rise!
The castle of olympia
is Shaking by the storm
The king lost his crown
And now the wall is tumbling down!
1. I do believe this is great. We really should have a MQ, because players will like this, as you said yourself. I would really like this myself. Althought i'm very, very bad at scripting and stuff, i would highly encourage people who feel like making such a MQ.
2. Although i'm with sload about the quests on TESIII engine, there should be quests on the TESIV engine. They keep the game alive, as Theo said. Also, they show the really awesome places in the game. In Morrowind, I never really wanted to go to Dagoth Ur, because i thought it was just some kind of sh*thole in a huge mountain. Until i arrived there for the MQ. The whole dwemer fortress thingy amazed me. This will be the same for TR. People run into Hammerfell when we've finished it (what will probably not happen too soon ), ok, as i said, they run into hammerfell, take a sprint for Sentinel and Fang Lair, and say Yeah, cool. That was that. Lets get back to Cyrodiil. But IF we add a MQ, people are seeing all those awesome places the modders among us made. Really, in the TR morrowind maps i was amazed by some of the designs and cities and towns, and i felt bad, because i knew those places will be hardly visited, because there's no depth in the story and the places.
People ask me to put my signature here. However, I do not want to write on my LCD screen. It's a good way to ruin a perfectly good screen.-M'aiq's little brother
Tags wrote:I'm sorry but Sload's post is a mass of contradiction...
If the Morrowind project is not going to be completed as Sload believes, then why is any work going on at all. If it's a waste of time to make quests for morroind then isn't it a waste of time to do anyting on the current project...
If the project came this far then it must be completed, if it's not well then, theres no stamina here. An if the project is relesed in wat ever state, having no quests or an MQ is just stupid. There would be no point for any of this to exist. IOt would be a waste.
An MQ is a must or this work has been a joke. Even if the whole propject is not done, at least there will be a reason for it to at least exist.
EDIT: I had a reply, I removed it because arguing is a bad idea. Que the roadtrip metaphor.
It's not about the end, it's about the journey.
Vholdrian wrote:2. Although i'm with sload about the quests on TESIII engine, there should be quests on the TESIV engine. They keep the game alive, as Theo said. Also, they show the really awesome places in the game. In Morrowind, I never really wanted to go to Dagoth Ur, because i thought it was just some kind of sh*thole in a huge mountain. Until i arrived there for the MQ. The whole dwemer fortress thingy amazed me. This will be the same for TR. People run into Hammerfell when we've finished it (what will probably not happen too soon ), ok, as i said, they run into hammerfell, take a sprint for Sentinel and Fang Lair, and say Yeah, cool. That was that. Lets get back to Cyrodiil. But IF we add a MQ, people are seeing all those awesome places the modders among us made. Really, in the TR morrowind maps i was amazed by some of the designs and cities and towns, and i felt bad, because i knew those places will be hardly visited, because there's no depth in the story and the places.
You sound easy to amaze. Dagoth Ur was the lamest boss-dungeon ever. I also do not suggest, believe, or argue that quests won't be made for TES IV.
Right. Now allow me to say something different. MW isn't going to be finished, map 1 only will be released (which is a shame cause Narsis is the most wondrous thing I ever saw) etc etc.
TR has no more than a couple of scripters, three at most.
When I joined, I knew nothing more than drawing, but Vegor assisted me step by step and taught me how easy it is to use CS. So, regardless that I have done little in this matter, I know how to make a Beth standard int, and I will put this knowledge to use soon as HF begins. So will others like me.
But int makers can be found just around the corner, scripters can't. I'm just an example of how somebody totally unaware of modding can learn a few things, and I'm sure there are other members like me in TR.
Sload, let's use map 1's quests, whatever they will be about, as a training session for anyone here who doesn't know a thing about it. If we want to be ready for the next step we've got to be prepared. If you can provide any assistance to willing n00bs, it will be of use in TESIV, that's for sure.
I say we need an MQ, I'm in full support of Theo, what little clout that may carry.
"The Dragon Breaks the Temple wall,
The flood will drown our Gods!
Break down the wall
And let another kingdom rise!
The castle of olympia
is Shaking by the storm
The king lost his crown
And now the wall is tumbling down!
I'll claim scripts and quests when it'll be able to do either of those.
Of course, when script claiming is closed and quest claiming is on hold, it's not surprise that the number of scripters and questers drops significantly.
You sound easy to amaze. Dagoth Ur was the lamest boss-dungeon ever. I also do not suggest, believe, or argue that quests won't be made for TES IV.
Actually i mean the outside. The exterior.
The interior sucked.
Dagoth Ur speaking to me made me piss in my pants.... because that was just too stupid. (Yeah i pissed in my pants... I actually laughed my stomach out and it had to be replaced in hospital)
Oh, and i agree on the TESIV quest part. The devs said they made it far more simplier to make quest with da CS. So i think that won't be a real prob.
Ooops! This post hit on the old nerve of future of TR project. Truth is, that making of MQ is still far future and noone can be sure even Morrowind exteriors will be finished. I just hope that there will be enough enthusiasts for MQ when the time comes to it, officialy or unofficialy.
To make quests, great numbers of scripters are not essential. Quest creation is mostly art of dialogue writing and handling.
Most of the quests are variations on: Talk to A, bring him B, kill C, escort D. There is already lots of scripts doing this in original game and we can use them as templates.
For the more intricate stuff I think one ore two moderately able scripters will do.
And personally, I am afraid that Oblivion will be just a pile of pathetic poo, complicated just enough to not to overburden simple minds of teens grown up on Tomb Raider (no offense). But that's just my opinion.
Well... I am sorry if my example was not very appropriate and correct, but I think my point behind it is reasonable.
I am just very sceptical towards all this enthusiastic expectations of modding heaven of Oblivion. Until I will see it, TES III CS remains for me the best tool to create own RPG. That's it.
This is my take on map 1 main quest, I've not thought all of the storyline yet, but what I have to show this far is as detailed as possible. Perhaps a couple of dialogue lines should be added, but that's detail at this stage.
Note that this is not neccesarily THE main quest, I guess it can be used in any way it's prefered (if used at all), but can easily be combined with a Jagar Tharn fun club conspiracy quest.
In a few words: Strange lights appear throughout map 1, some have seen them but nobody knows of their nature or cause. The Duke of Firewatch organised a survey to find a recently released prisoner (that's you...err, the PC) in order to get some extra help from an unknown to these parts person. Nobody will miss a dead ex-prisoner anyway. The player goes off in search of witnesses, and soon enough he finds himself following a trail of future corpses and seemingly unrelated incidents in search of info and answers. And while leaving the house of the third witness, he is suddenly ambushed. Things do not clear out but it's now evident that someone is to prevent him from uncovering anything at all.
That's the scenario so far, what I'm thinking for the next part is this: The player is on the trail of a fourth witness, a warrior, whom he knows he must protect, or another corpse will be added to the list (sometime near the quest's completion, the rescued warrior will appear all of a sudden, along with other victims whose death was prevented by the PC, in order to assist him in the battle that will mean the grand finale). I always believed that the attack in Firemoth had something epic about it, and I'd love to see that recreated and enhanced with some feeling-the willing participation of those saved by the PC for example.
First part of the quest, short description: While in Firewatch, the player learns that the local Guard Captain looks for him. The GC informs the player of some weird things going on and sends him to meet the Duke of Firewatch, who offers a little more info and the name of a witness. The player interrogates the witness, reports back to the Duke and receives a rather insignificant side-quest that brings him face to face with another witness, an undead one whom the player is forced to kill. After reporting to the Duke he is sent to re-interrogate the first one, whom he finds killed under unknown circumstances. Last report to the Duke and part 1 ends with more questions raised than answered. I suggest that you read the detailed quest design because this description doesn't say much.
Main Quest pt.1
Title: Lights & Voices
Persons: Duke of Firewatch, Radam Ranathys, Vampire
Locations: Firewatch barracks, Firewatch Duke's appartments, Bal Oyra Black Ogre inn, 1 cell south of Tel Ouada, 3 cells north of Bal Oyra
While in Firewatch's port, if the PC asks around about 'latest rumors' he will receive this answer: 'Weird things are going on. Wait a second. By the looks of you I believe you are the one our Guard Captain is looking for. Don't ask me why, all I know is that you'd better speak to him. He's probably inspecting the barracks as we speak.'
The outcome is the same if the player walks into the barracks without having been told the above.
GC - Halt! Are you the recently released prisoner by the name of %PCName?
PC Choice: 1) - I am.
2) - Who wants to know?
GC: 1)Good, the papers we received state you are a %PCClass and we can really use someone like you. But we can't talk here, follow me to my office.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
2) - Don't get cocky with me %PCRace, you may be free but you remain in His majesty's service. The papers we received state you are a %PCClass and we can really use someone like you. But we can't talk here, follow me to my office.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
*Disposition -5*
The Guard Captain heads for his office and the PC must follow. If PC speaks to the GC while on the move, the GC says 'Follow me inside, we can't talk here', and a *Goodbye* appears. Once inside, the PC has to talk to the Captain about the topic 'talk' in order to continue the conversation.
GC - Ahh, yes, as I said we can use someone with your skills. There is some sort of upstart going on in these parts and our efforts to find the cause have thus far failed. Truth is, I cannot tell you much since I myself know little on the subject, except that sporadically we receive reports of strange phenomena from all over the area. What kind of phenomena? I wish I could tell, the reports are anything but clear. It seems that the witnesses can't exactly understand what they were looking at. Perhaps all this is a massive hallucination or something, but before we go into detail, I need to know: Do you accept to do some work for us concerning this matter? Be warned, we don't know what we're dealing with, getting involved may prove risky.
PC Choice: 1) - When do I begin?
2) - Sorry, I don't like the sound of it.
GC: 1) - Keen in risking, huh? Let's hope you can accomplish what the Legion could not. Go see the Duke of Firewatch, he'll be in his apartments, in the tall tower by the port. Good luck %PCName.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
*Disposition +10*
2) - Expected. Do as you wish, but this will not grant you any favors from the King or the Emperor. Please, reconsider.
*Goodbye*
If PC accepts, he must go and talk to the Duke of Firewatch about the topic 'Strange Phenomena' (the topic is unavailable unless the PC accepts).
DoF - Greetings %PCRace, I understand you are the one I was informed of? Since you stand before me, you must have agreed to assist the Legion in whatever way possible. Tell me, what do you know so far?
PC - [Tell him what the Guard Captain said.]
DoF - I see... There is little more to be said on this, the reports are indeed confusing to say the least. Puzzling is more like it, actually. People return from their fields, herds and boats to speak of strange lights, voices and such. Nobody gave a clue as to what the voices said or where the lights came from, they can't even remember the exact time their experience took place... I will be honest with you. I do not know what is happening, I do not know if what these people say is true, if it's a joke or a tale they use to draw attention to themselves. And in case it is true, I do not know how serious can it be, but if someone is to nose around I prefer that he's not a known face. If you believe that you're up to this task, I can only tell you where to start searching.
PC Choice: 1) I'm anxious to start.
2) Mind if I come by later?
DoF: 1) - Don't be hasty %PCName. I wouldn't want to think you are more of a fool than a brave one. The place to begin should be Bal Oyra. A fisherman by the name of Radam Ranathys is the latest witness we know of. Unfortunately, he is the most shocked too, so I hope you have a way with people. Take care, and good luck.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
2) - I hope you won't change your mind.
*Goodbye*
The PC must now go to the village of Bal Oyra and ask around about 'Radam Ranathys' to locate the fisherman, but no one will speak unless their disposition is equal to or higher than 80. In this case, he will be told: 'Yes, I know of Radam and his tale. The only place he can be at this time of day would be the Black Ogre inn. You know, his tale seems real, but he hasn't layed off the sujamma for years. He could spin any kind of tale when the spirits move him.'
*Journal Update*
If the PC asks about 'Radam Ranathys' inside the Black Ogre, he'll be told: 'I think I saw him heading to the bath room in the lower floor. He'll be puking off the last barrel he drunk.'
Radam is indeed in the bath room and when the PC talks to him, the conversation goes like this:
RR - Wh-what do you twins w-want from m-me? Hic! I'll pay, ya hear? I-I'll pay the drinks.
(This should be his default greeting before the player clicks on any of the topics)
If the PC selects the 'Strange phenomena' topic, he receives the following answers. The first, if Radam's disposition is below 90, the second if it's equal or above 90:
1) 'Sure, I've seen many o'them. But th-this's th'best of all. Hic! How do you mul-mut-multiply yourself %PCRace? Hic!'
*Goodbye*
(if disposition<90)
2) 'No, n-no. I don't see them, I never hear-hear any of them, I don't want to speak, p-please, let me be. *Weeps*'
(If disposition=>90)
If Radam says the second one, the conversation goes on with the PC speaking.
PC Choice: 1) - I believe I can help you Radam. Talk to me.
2) - This is pathetic, stop it and answer me.
RR: 1) - Y-you believe...? NO, no-no one can help me. All these years no one d-did. Hic! I-I alone. Alone...
2) - You will h-hurt me. Hic! Leave. P-please... Leave. Hic!
*Goodbye*
*Disposition -10*
PC - All these years? You have been seeing these for quite some time, haven't you?
RR - F-fool I am, fool! Hic! Yes, I have, why do y-you care? Nobody cared, nobody. Do you really w-want to help m-me? Hic!
PC - I do. Please go on.
RR - I will... I will. Not-not now, I have to be dry, no drink, n-no. Hic! You are good person, will you come see poor Radas tommorow? I w-will be dry, I-I promise.
The PC must now speak again to Radam Ranathys about 'Strange phenomena' after 24 in-game hours. If he does so earlier, Radam will greet him saying: 'N-not now, I need to be d-dry. Hic!'
*Goodbye*
After 24 in-game hours, topic 'Strange phenomena':
RR - Welcome %PCName, I wasn't sure you would speak twice to the same drunkard, but I layed off the drink as I promised. I must tell you, I'm still unsure whether I should talk to you, most people here find me amusing and laugh at me, and the Legionaires said they would investigate but I think they weren't serious. I do not even know where to begin from.
PC - You said something about this happening for years.
RR - Right, right. It has been happening for years, always the same. While in my boat, fishing north of here late at night, I suddenly heard whispers around me. There was no sign of land in the horizon, no ships, nothing, yet I was hearing whispers, getting louder as time went by. And just when I thought I was as frightened as a mer can be, lights appeared. They were floating gently, just above the surface, bright and colorful, sometimes distant, sometimes right over my shoulder. I told everyone that night, but nobody believed me. It happened rarely back then, but lately, it is more and more often. Perhaps, perhaps you waste your time, perhaps I'm a madman. But these things made me the drunkard I am today %PCName. It's their fault. *Weeps*
*Journal Update*
PC - Others saw these too, you know.
RR - Really? You're not playing with me, are you? Then I am sane, but I still fear. I fear that the lights will come back and find me. And hurt me. I do not know why or how. I tell you %PCName, there is something bad about them. I fear so much...
*Journal Update*
PC - Can you tell me where you last saw them?
RR - No, I can't. I changed a lot of fishing spots, sensed them everywhere. But not always. As I told you they don't seem to appear at a given moment, that's why I think they're something unnatural. You know, I don't think you can help me either. Please, leave me.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
The PC must now return to the Duke of Firewatch and report what he has been told. Upon talking to him about 'Strange phenomena', he receives the following response:
DoF - Interesting story, I will order my soldiers to search our archives for older reports of such phenomena. If it's been going on for years as Radam says, perhaps it is not something to be concerned with. But until we come up with some information I have a task for you. Last night, people saw a man roaming south of Tel Ouada, in the east side of the river. I'm not sure why this was reported, it seems nobody was hurt or threatened, yet the citizens were scared. Anything is possible in Telvanni territory though, so I suggest that you investigate the matter and calm the local population.
*Journal Update*
The PC must go to Tel Ouada and ask about 'man roaming' where he will be given the answer: 'Yes, we saw someone walking and running around south of here, in the eastern shore of the river. I can't tell if it was a man or a mer but we were really spooked. Even the guards stayed put. I bet they were frightened too.' (If disposition<70)
'Most of us saw him. To be honest, he was screaming for help, but his voice... I've never heard such a voice coming from men or mer before. That's what scared everyone.' (If disposition=>70)
One cell south of Tel Ouada, on the east side of the river, the PC will see a vampire running around. This should happen only during night, which means between 8pm and 5am. Once close to it, the Vampire runs towards the PC and begins a forced conversation:
V - Is someone there? Help me, help me!
PC Choice: 1) - A vampire! Don't try to lure me into coming closer filth!
2) - A vampire exposed like this?! Do you seek death, creature?
V - The light blinded me! I can't stand that light and its voice. Whoever you might be, deliver me from this! It screams whispers in my ears, blinds me with dark lights, don't let it get me!
PC - Wait, wha...
V - Graaahr! Kill me I said!
*Goodbye*
*Modfight=100*
*Disposition=0*
*Journal Update*
When the vampire is dead, the PC has to speak to the Duke about 'man roaming':
DoF - So, it was not even a man after all. And you say it was blinded and talked of lights and voices too? This is pretty disturbing. If something could inflict such terror and agony upon an undead, who knows what it is capable of? There is no success with our archive survey so far and I'm getting a bit frustrated. Head back to Bal Oyra %PCName, and ask Radam Ranathys once more. If he does not cooperate, force the answers out of him in any way possible, but do not kill him. He is our only lead for the time being.
*Journal Update*
This time Radam is not in the Black Ogre, and if the PC asks around about 'Radam Ranathys' he will be told: 'I didn't see him in the Black Ogre, so he's probably still fishing in his favorite spot, right north of Bal Oyra.'
*Journal Update*
Three cells north of Bal Oyra the PC will find a boat with the dead body of Ranathys in it.
*Journal Update*
The player reports back to the Duke where he's told:
DoF - Radam is dead? Then someone or something beat you to it and our only lead is gone. We will have to figure something else. You uncovered more than my soldiers did %PCName, so I'd like you to keep working on this. Take these as a reward for your efforts and come see me later. In the meantime, keep our cooperation secret.
*Goodbye*
*AddItem xxx*
*Disposition +5*
*Journal Update*
Second part of the quest, short description; The Duke of Firewatch sends the PC to ask the Telvanni for info. Also, while in Port Telvannis the player must investigate for more witnesses, finally finding one who -like the previous- ends up dead, leaving the player alone and surrounded by a party of enemies who appear from nowhere. Report to the Duke and end of pt.2.
Like before, the full quest design is more enlightening.
Main Quest pt.2
Title: A Hostile Mystery
Persons: Duke of Firewatch, Port Telvannis 'magister', Port Telvannis Caravaneers, Nadheera
Locations: Firewatch Duke's appartments, Port Telvannis tower, Port Telvannis docks, Nadheera's shack
When the PC speaks again with the Duke of Firewatch (after completing the first part) he will be greeted like this:
DoF - Welcome back %PCName. I considered the matter carefully during your absence and I believe we are ready to proceed. Here, take this, it is a document carrying my seal. You are to deliver it to the magister of Port Telvannis himself and request that he grants you all the information the Telvanni archives contain on the matter of these latest phenomena. I can't imagine who would know more than the traditional residents of this area. Oh, and while you are there I suggest that you investigate the whereabouts of possible witnesses. Let me know what you unearth. Suffice to say the document must be delivered with its seal intact.
*Journal Update*
*AddItem->Sealed Document*
Now the PC has to meet with the Telvanni magister of Port Telvannis (I wrote 'magister' only because I don't know the title or name of the 'boss' of Port Telvannis) to whom he must give the Sealed Document. If the PC has broken the seal he will be denied access to the info and will need to ask the local Thieves Guild folks for help. The alternative is to steal it straight from the magister's pockets, assuming the PC's sneak skill is that high.
Upon speaking to the Port Telvannis Magister about 'information':
PTM - What you ask for is not for the n'wahs to see. What? You say the Duke of Firewatch himself wishes to browse our archives? I do not like imperial puppets to learn of our business, but I do not have a choice I'm afraid. Let me inspect that document of yours.
PC Choice: 1) - [Give him the document.]
2) - [Keep the document.]
PTM: 1.1) - Yes, this is genuine. Very well %PCRace, take these notes and get out of my sight.
*Goodbye*
*RemoveItem->Sealed Document*
*AddItem->PTM's Notes*
*Journal Update*
(If the seal is not broken)
1.2) - What is this? Who are you trying to fool s'wit? Begone at once!
*Goodbye*
*RemoveItem->Sealed Document*
*Disposition -15*
*Journal Update*
(If the seal is broken)
2) If you wish to play with my patience, I shall play with your scull.
*Goodbye*
*Disposition -10*
In case answer 1.2 is given, the journal entry will suggest that the player tries to get help from professionals in order to take these notes. The person to talk to will be the local TG master. When telling him about 'information':
TGM - This kind of information will cost you, %PCName. What? Do I hear well? You want them stolen right from the tower? O-ho, I see! This job must be done by complete lunatics, and lunatics charge extra, so I will have to charge YOU extra. Is 2000 septims a fair deal for you?
PC Choice: 1) - Yes, I can afford it.
2) - Make it 1000 and we have a deal.
3) - I need some time to decide.
TGM: 1) - You made the right choice my friend, come back in a day's time and I'll have your papers.
*Goodbye*
*Removeitem->2000 Gold*
*Journal Update*
2.1) - You're a tough one %PCName. Alright, 1000 it is.
*Goodbye*
*Removeitem->1000 Gold*
*Journal Update*
(If disposition=100)
2.2) - Something wrong with your eyes %PCRace? This is not the bazaar.
*Goodbye*
*Disposition -5*
(If disposition<100)
3) - Sure, take your time.
*Goodbye*
After 24 in-game hours, talking to the Thieves Guild Master about 'information':
TGM - Here is your paperwork, I hope you are satisfied with our services. Thank you for prefering us! He he.
*Goodbye*
*AddItem->PTM's Notes*
*Journal Update*
The other thing the PC has to do before returning to the Duke is to find another witness. Asking in Port Telvannis about 'witnesses', he will receive the response: "You've heard of these sightings too? I'm not aware of any witnesses but I never payed much attention anyway. You should ask down at the docks, the caravaneers meet lots of people every day. If someone knows of a witness, it's them.'
Any of the River Strider caravaneers should do. Asking them about 'witnesses':
C - If I ever saw one? ONE? You have to be joking %PCRace, dozens of madmen appear at the docks every single minute! I have so many tales to te... Oh, you want to meet one? Well, uhm, actually I don't know any names, but I can tell you where to look at if you want to find one.
Selecting the topic 'find one':
C - Yes, and a little gold might help me remember things a bit faster. You wouldn't want to miss some precious information because of 80 septims now, would you?
PC Choice: 1) - I see, another opportunist. Here's your gold, speak up.
2) - Forget it.
C: 1) - And who isn't nowdays, huh? Thank you. Now, do you want to learn where to find one?
*RemoveItem->80 Gold*
2) - I don't earn, you don't learn.
*Goodbye*
*Disposition -5*
If the answer is No 1, selecting again the topic 'find one':
C - Last day I picked up a Bosmer girl, she was mumbling nonsense all the way from Tel Ouada. Something about voices made of light that chased her, or something like that. When we arrived here she told me she was feeling too exhausted to walk home and asked that I carried her. She hadn't had much to offer in exchange so I denied, but I know she lives somewhere in the west coast of the island. Just head for the city's west side and continue on the road. I'd drop you there but I'm running on a tight schedule.
*Journal Update*
If the player walks on the road that begins from Port Telvannis and ends to the west beach, he will see a shack built on the sand, a few meters south of the road. In the shack he will find the Bosmer girl, Nadheera. Talking to her about 'witnesses':
N - I don't know what you're talking about. Really, I... It's no good, is it? You know about it. Did the light speak to you too?
PC Choice: 1) - [Lie] Yes.
2) - No, I only want to help.
N - You're lying. But whatever your purpose is, it doesn't matter. The light will hurt me, I tried to drive it away, it will not forgive me. It will not forgive me... *Weeps*
Please, leave while you can and never ask for the light or its whispers again.
*Goodbye*
*Journal Update*
(This is the answer no matter what the PC says)
If the player speaks to Nadheera again, she will say this greeting: 'I said leave. Save yourself while there is still time.'
*Goodbye*
After the PC exits Nadheera's shack, he hears screams (like during the Ristaag hunt in BM) and a journal entry will notify him to go back inside, where he finds Nadheera dead. When he exits, the PC finds the shack surrounded by armored skeletons. I suggest 5 at least and 8 at most. Soon as they're all dead the journal is updated and it's time to return to the Duke.
His greeting if the PC hasn't accomplished both or any tasks: 'Return to me with a witness' confession and a Telvanni report. I asked for both.'
His greeting if the PC has accomplished both tasks: 'I am satisfied %PCName, you did well. I imagine the magister wasn't very eager to share his knowledge, ha ha! I am sorry however for the girl, her loss of life is our loss of information. I need to examine the notes you brought me, so leave for a while. Get some experience, learn the area and come back stroner. I feel you will need it.
*Goodbye*
*Disposition +5*
*Journal Update*
I'm glad that someones still working on this...i'll read over what you've written in detail later, i'm on a tight schedule at the mo, but at first glance it seems good...if you need help with it (designing or implementing it) i'd be willing.
Approved: 15 In review: 0 Claimed: 0
Reviews Done: ~85
I hate to have you wasting all this time, but even if quests for Morrowind will ever be done, there is already a "mainquesty" thing in Map 1 done through intertwined faction quests.
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nabO_UXb6MM]This is not my life[/url]
Sload wrote:there is already a "mainquesty" thing in Map 1 done through intertwined faction quests.
If "done" means conceptualized in text plotlines then there is plenty of quests on map 1, otherwise there have been 5 misc. quests which have to be deleted because of map 1 fixes (do not ask me why, though).
However I would not call the guild plotlines we have mainquesty thing, because there is so many conflicts player will only be able to play 10 percents of the total number of them and reasons for him to play these quests are not that obvious of me.
In the end we will be grateful if someone will be willing to mod any quests on map 1 at all, so all the guild plotlines are as useful as concept art on Akavir to us right now.
My opinion is if any quests will be done it will be some kind of main quest and not the guild proposals we have, because they are more then dead.
What you have there looks pretty good, Scumbago. One thing I would note is this bit:
get some extra help from an unknown to these parts person. Nobody will miss a dead ex-prisoner anyway
Nobody will miss him if he is just off the boat from Seyda Neen, but if he's Nerevarine, that's a whole other story. Maybe make the starting dialog depend on rep or somesuch. If your rep is low he doesn't speak as nicely to you/makes you do an unimportant quest to test your abilities.
Just a thought.
Now, about the issue of Map 1 quests.
So far, Scumbago's outline looks pretty good as a "Really Big Misc Quest(TM)" If he's willing to script it himself that would be great, but if not, I'd like to give it a whirl.
From what I remember, there was a huge amount of conflict between the different factions in the Map1 main story. (something about the head of the Imperial Cult being possessed or somesuch)
Map1 interiors are very close to being finished. After that it's on to NPC fixing and dialog. AFAIK, most of NPC fixing is done.(though I could be hugely mistaken) Then I say, why not open up open up the quest idea forums for discussion once more? Lots of new members have joined since they were last open, and I'm sure they have lots of ideas.We should dredge up the old guild questlines and see what should be kept and what should be scrapped.
We have a few scripters here, and I'm dying to get my teeth into a questline (My scripting competence isn't all that high but I learn quickly and I've got some programming experience too)
I have question, though; what is the staus of the quests that were listed as approved. Will these have to be re-scripted, or could the original esps be adapted easily enough?
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
If I could handle the scripts needed for this I wouldn't write a story, I'd upload an esp. I know how to make dialog but I'm useless when it comes to scripting.
Sload, mind your steps, for it is my dreams you are stepping on (yeah, right).
P.S. I posted an evaluation quest thing in the tavern but apparently nobody bothered to take a look and give some feedback. If you'd be kind enough to do so guys...
Ludovic: What exactly do you mean by an 'overlook'? I'll do what is neccessary, unless the Core says we're not to make any quests. If plan B is put in effect (we're finishing ints and exts and that's all) I'm all about making quests and NPCs with you and anyone else who's interested. Lore wise stuff only!
If you have a good quest line and somebody willing to script it, i'd say go for it. One of the main reasons that quests are 'closed' is because there usually isn't somebody to make them, and the fact that the exteriors and interiors will be changing a lot still. I also seem to remember some quests causeing problems with Map 1 a while ago, because they weren't implemented right. You're best off PM'ing an admin see whats up with quests.
Eh... This thread should not been made public before map 1 release. Right now quests are closed and suggesting detailed plots is job, which will have no effect, I am afraid.
Yeah, but wouldn't it be great to have full guild questlines written and ready to be scripted by the time Map1 is finished. There are 13 interiors left to be done in Map 1, most of which are in reviewing. It won't take much longer to get the physical building done and then once NPCs are fully fixed, we can go nuts with quests.
Is there any chance an admin could tell me when the quest forums will be open again?
(not for actually making them, just for organizing the guilds, thinking up quest ideas, etc)
"It’s all been such a mistake. We were once little shrew-like animals. That would be so much better."
-Ophelia Benson
I've come to understand that the heights of ground in map 1 is going to stay as it is. So the landscape remains as it is in v.884 and any further changes of the map will be about statics. Is a percentage of what I said right? If yes, we can begin to experimentally make quests and test them ourselves, given that we have the latest version of both the map and OoT. Personally, I feel my fingers itchy and eager to make some NPCs and dialogue. And perhaps some scripts to develop my skills on them.
I've come to understand that the heights of ground in map 1 is going to stay as it is.
That's correct After I posted about terrain changing I took a closer look at your quest outline and realized it was just for Map 1. The terrain won't be changing anymore.. if the terrain absolutely had to be changed it would be only to fix a hole in the ground that leads out the void.
I say go for it if you're willing to see the quest through from beginning to end. It would be great to see a version of map one with a big quest. I had a chance to play the Imperial Legion quest line on map one while it was in beta... well atleast until it stopped working.. it was never finished I don't think.. anyways, it was really fun. Talk to Stalker and Theo about starting a Quest NPC plugin, and then you guys can start scripting the quest.
Well if Stalker gives you permission to play with map 1 I say go ahead. I think you do not need to write some plot and post it here before you get your hands on moding, although having some preconcept is very handy. If you would be interested in some plots already done (MG, TG, FG, IL x Telvanni , Temple x Imperial Cult x Molag Bal cultists) just pm me I have the plotlines in hidden forum (though I really think we SHOULDN'T make copies of old guilds)...
I would just ask you to keep track of:
1) NPC altered
2) NPC added
3) Dialogue topics altered (including greetings)
4) Dialogue topics and journal entries added
5) Scripts added
6) OoT objects added
7) New objects added/world altered
Well, to be honest I believe that some stuff like the 'Random100' greeting thing just screams for additions. Let's face it, we can't have twice the mass of Morrowind and keep the same number of generic topics. They will look insufficient imo. Now, as for the already existing guilds & factions, I fell in love with their members coz all of them had quite a personality, which was reflected in their quests too! So I say, let's get on with the guilds too. Ludovic is positive on this, which makes two of us. But 2 out 40 is 5%. I know I'm not the only one who wants to see quests in TR maps, so I'll be expecting to see the 5% that is the willing questmakers' percentage, to grow up to -at least- 30%. And you've got no excuse folks, especially now that map 1 is nearly completed.
Theo: I never had the opportunity to take a look at that main quest idea that involves all the guilds of map 1. Could you pm me it to me? I'll begin to test some stuff I have in my mind, and I can really use some inspiration. These things aren't classified now, are they?[/list]
How far did Uldar and Starcrunch get with scripting the guild and faction quests? I actually played the Legion one, but do you know any others that were made Theo?
Lets just say I have a plan how to integrate carefully best of these ideas to MQ. You can trust me, I can do this well.
)
), ok, as i said, they run into hammerfell, take a sprint for Sentinel and Fang Lair, and say Yeah, cool. That was that. Lets get back to Cyrodiil. But IF we add a MQ, people are seeing all those awesome places the modders among us made. Really, in the TR morrowind maps i was amazed by some of the designs and cities and towns, and i felt bad, because i knew those places will be hardly visited, because there's no depth in the story and the places. 
(My scripting competence isn't all that high but I learn quickly and I've got some programming experience too)