Alliance

[Vrenir]

I am not a modder, but I am a great admirer of TES, of mods, and of the creative energies that fuel them. For the last two years, I have been a “skulkerâ€Â￾ in the forums of TES, Planet Elderscrolls, TR, and Silgrad, and though time and lack of expertise have prevented me from participating actively, I have made several observations, and as the new Oblivion projects commence, I would like to make a few suggestions.

First, on the Silgrad site alone, there are supposedly four separate but interlinked mods (ST, Blacklight, Velothi Mountains, and Vvardenfell). All of these are already tied together via the forums and supposedly have agreed to share their library of models. I think that’s a wonderful step in the right direction, but as I read the mods’ individual forums, I see a distinct lack of coordination that I fear will prevent them from being compatible in the long run. This can be shown most obviously in the “main questâ€Â￾ threads, where both ST and Vvardenfell center on house conflicts in completely separate areas. If there is to be a House War or any other province-wide plotline, there must be coordination between the mods that are contained within the province. I do not propose simply a monolithic structure as TR uses, but simply a forum where the top members of each subgroup can discuss and agree on the ramifications of their regional plotlines. If this is not feasible, I would strongly encourage the modders to please consider restricting themselves to regional stories if only for the sake of the larger community.

Secondly, in keeping with the idea of coordination, I suggest the formation of a general Oblivion modding alliance, sort of a forum for all groups attempting to mod in large projects outside of Cyrodill. That way, if a scale shift is deemed necessary, all major groups can agree on a mutually-compatible way of adapting (resizing Cyrodill or whatever the case may be). Also, models could easily be shared between mods according to need, or even produced for all communities by a central group. Imagine, you decide to put a visiting Redguard envoy in Silgrad and need armor, but thankfully TR already has asked for some produced, so you simply download it from the common library! Additionally as a result, when mods are released, the texture tags etc would be universal, meaning less clutter within file folders. An alliance would also make it easier to track projects, to see in a single place what is being done and how they ought to connect on the map. Assuming that the basic mods intended do reach completion, such a site as I am proposing would also facilitate additional, over-arching modding in a way that I have never seen for TESIII.

I realize that there are conflicting visions within the large TES modding community, and there may even be doubling up on projects, but I still believe that all would benefit from a common base of shared resources and emotional support. I would encourage you, as someone who hopes to enjoy your work to the fullest, to take the steps in these matters now, before the projects get too far underway. That way, we can all reap the rewards in the coming years. Thank you.

(This has been posted on the Silgrad Tower forums, the TR forums, and the Planet Elderscrolls forum.)

[rowa]

I don't completely understand your idea but I like it.

[Macar]

There is no reason to combine mods. In your example of the visiting redgaurd envoy, why does ST need to make thier redgaurds look like ours? Variety is the spice of life. Besides, the goal of uniting would be to get things done faster. I dont think you understand that finishing is not our goal. We mod because we enjoy it, we enjoy the process and a finished product is not the goal.

ST has thier vision and we have ours. I like it that way, why should we all have the same vision?

[Morden]

Universal file naming conventions is a good idea, but its no use unless every modder that ever picks up the CS follows the same rules. All it takes is one non-reviewed mod to screw up your naming conventions.

I'm really not conviced that it's necessary for every major mod to work together closely on a common forum... and coordinating main quests for the sake of the whole community seems rather absurd.

If there is to be a House War or any other province-wide plotline, there must be coordination between the mods that are contained within the province. I do not propose simply a monolithic structure as TR uses, but simply a forum where the top members of each subgroup can discuss and agree on the ramifications of their regional plotlines. If this is not feasible, I would strongly encourage the modders to please consider restricting themselves to regional stories if only for the sake of the larger community.

Why?

I'm not trying to insult you, it's a very noble idea, but its just not clear to me why this is needed. Perhaps you could explain more how this involves us.

[Dexter]

The problem is that while some of the bigger mods may have goals that would work well alongside each other, we all have different means of reaching those goals. Tamriel Rebuilt has attempted to mod alongside Silgrad before, and the mindset of the two projects are just too different for cooperation to work.

[Xui'al]

Lore is also an issue, and one that Silgrad doesn't care seem to care much for.

[Sload]

Let us not discuss what Silgrad does and does not care for. This was an idea of Vrenir's and one that probably won't happen involving TR. That's about it.

[Vrenir]

I fully realize that there is bad blood between TR and Silgrad, and that it should not be expected that the two of you will consent to "work together," as your visions and particularly your lore stances are different. I had, however, noticed that you are now working on completely seperate areas of Tamriel (no longer making you as much rivals). I also have noticed that you at TR are especially adept at dishing out models and books, things that could easily be used by others in order to speed along the modding process, and at the same time create notoriety for your work. Sure, if groups don't want to use the same models as somebody else, they shouldn't have to, but if the option is there and it can make everyone's lives easier to share, why not?

[Morgoth]

Listen, as much as we would all like to have a perfect modding community, we don't. We most likely never will. Seperate projects have seperate goals and mindsets, that's something that the general public must come to understand. First off, if I join TR instead of Silgrad, then I most likely want TR to be using my work. If I did want Silgrad to use my stuff, I'd walk over there and hand it to them, just as Prom did with his Nordic set.

Secondly, our members would get sidetracked by doing work for different projects. Vvardenfell might say, "Oh, we love that model that TR is using, could Morgoth finish the whole set for us?" If Morgoth doesn't have the time however, Vvardenfell assumes he has a grudge against them, or is hoarding his models for TR, and as a result, a minor fued breaks out which eventually gets bigger until the two projects seperate again.

Third, each project wants to be unique. If I download TR, I want to see something new and exiting, not the same old thing that I just saw while playing Silgrad. Fourth, core members would never cooperate. Period. It just wouldn't work. It would be nice, I wouldn't mind one bit, but unfortunatly, I think it's better that seperate projects reamain seperate.

[Razorwing]

I would say especially now that we'll be modding different provinces there's little or no point in collaborating in that way. People jumping from forum to forum, sharing models and what-not now and then, that's fine - because there's no red tape. Neither team would want to follow someone else's rulebook, which is what a collaboration like that would inevitably have to require, and it'd break down again. We're all better off as separate organisations.

[Morden]

core members would never cooperate. Period. It just wouldn't work.

People jumping from forum to forum, sharing models and what-not now and then, that's fine - because there's no red tape. Neither team would want to follow someone else's rulebook

I would be willing to cooperate, especially with ST, but like Razorwing said, on an individual, now and then type basis. If I did that as an individual it wouldn't be as a core member of TR...different projects, different rules.

[Morgoth]

True, I'd be glad to work with Silgrd once in awhile, spread out my name a bit, but as Morden said, on a voluntary basis.

[Lud]

I'm sure many members wouldn't mind spreading a bit of love around the community. However, it wouldn't be right for TR as an organization to give away work by people who don't want to share, for one reason or another.
Anyway, ad hoc cooperation works well enough as is.

Silgrad and TR are best kept separate, because of the huge differences between their ideologies.

[Macar]

I want to add that working seperately isn't because we hate eachother. It's just differing goals. We work together when it's usefull. See: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=15684