Blacklight

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 7:02 pm

İt's a kind of update, but in this forum every members can comment.

This is the city of Blacklight (map 5, Velothi).
And the work is far to the end.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:15 pm

He people, if i send pictures it was to have a bit of feedback.
Working an ext is a long and solitary challenge... and i feel alone... to much alone... Snif,snif...

Andres Indoril · Post by **Andres Indoril** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:25 pm

Nice. I don't know why I didn't notice this thread before.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:27 pm

WOW! nice! I was wondering though. I noticed that you were using some house exteriors for things coming out of the mountain side (the velothi buildings) I was wondering what you are going to doo about the door jams.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:28 pm

Ok, I will give you your feedback, but then you have to give feedback on my 4-17 claim in return

(seriously I would appreciate feedback of such esteemed ext moder as you).
Now to Blacklight:
It is simply impressive. I am astounded about your creative use of models. However I am a little bit afraid it is TOO impresive and bombastic. The way you combine Velothi towers to create all those monumental buildings makes Blacklight look very alien compared to other towns. But however that was Vivec too first time I saw it and in the end it was good. I guess you are not going to change whole setting of the city because of this my impression, but perhaps when you will add more detail it will look more like lively town and not like wrecked alien spaceship. Anyway - I am looking forward to see more and believe you are going in good direction.

EDIT: How is your poly count? And do you have some idea about how to make interiors for those things already? (Sorry for being sceptical, I am running quite loose on my 4-17 as well, so strike me back...)

Mountanious · Post by **Mountanious** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 3:58 pm

Looks splendid! But how about an arial view of the whole thing?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:40 pm

Looking rather nice, I especially like the slums between the more vainglorious Velothi buildings.

Now, for some harsh criticisms:

However, I think you're overusing the "nestled alcoves" pieces, the cliffs end up looking like a collection of cabbage (see 1, 2 & 12); I don't like much the effect of having two entrance alcoves glued to each other, one upside-down under the other (3, 12 & 14); and the dock part, while ingenious, should be made smaller, or more twisted and less repetitive because right now it reminds me more of dwemeri than of velothi, despite the pieces used (10). The dock on screen 4 looks great and get no reproaches from me.

Don't get me wrong, I like the inventivity you've shown, and cliff cities are one thing I like a lot. But try to tone the grandioseness down a bit. Less huge ornementations, this is not Necrom, Vivec, or Almalexia, the three Holy Cities of the Dunmer. It should as such not be overfancy.

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:25 pm

It's breathtaking, but I wonder; is it bigger than Almalexia at this point? Bigger than Vivec is perhaps Ok, but it shouldn't leave behind the very capital of MW.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:50 pm

ooh.... prety....

simply beautifull. though i do have to agree, dont make us another narsis here

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:02 pm

Narsis was enormous, but also more...orthodox in terms of architecture, which is what balanced out its size.

Mountanious · Post by **Mountanious** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:22 pm

What happened to narsis btw?

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:31 pm

um, some of the uberness was reduced to make the FPS better.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:47 pm

He people, if i send pictures it was to have a bit of feedback.

Try posting your images as thumbnails and host them on either photobucket or imageshack. You'll get feedback because people can see what you are doing without downloading anything. Putting something in an archive and making others download it is inconvenient and stops casual viewers from commenting.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:55 pm

Oh wow...amazing job, kebra! How AWESOME does this look

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:59 pm

El Scumbago wrote:It's breathtaking, but I wonder; is it bigger than Almalexia at this point? Bigger than Vivec is perhaps Ok, but it shouldn't leave behind the very capital of MW.

Bigger than vivec isn't really okay, but I don't have the real right to speak about this.

Harke the Apostle · Post by **Harke the Apostle** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:01 pm

Ã‚Â¡BL_12 Caramba!

I hope the FPS isn't too bad!

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:44 am

Bigger than vivec isn't really okay

I'm afraid so. Anyway, kebra, can you upload a view of the city's cells? An arial view or something, just to give us an idea about the size of the city.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:54 am

Thanks to all.It's good for motivation, usefull also.

Promess Theo, in fact i never critic because i don't follow half of the threads. I feel unlegitimate(?).
Promess Moutanious, i will send a complete overview.
About Narsis, Kingfish is in charge to redduce the city. (if i'm right) But it's possible to dunload it. Anyway i wouldn't like to have to touch to such a master piece.
Right, Morden.

Ok, three main critic:

The FPS.
Kingfish aware me about this problem and that's right that i will have to be careful.
When the work will be a bit more advanced i will send a version for an FPS test. But actually it's a mess and will mean nothing.

The size.
It's big but not like Almexia or Vivec. But, you are right, it's maybee too large for BL.
Anyway, BL is an important city, if i follow the thread we had, it has been a capitol. My idea is that the city was build around a big acropolis and is slowly falling asleep.
Here is the reason of the slum, and the buildings outside of the acropolis are,in my mind, ruined, sometimes empty, sometimes not...
And from the name of BL, i created the acropolis around a kind of holly place. İt's also a problem of style, the Velothi set is pretty well adapted to a pretentious and religious architecture.
So, i propose to keep the acropolis, the slum and the cliff, but partly deserted, and, eliminate a part of the districts around. Maybee the cliff of the acropolis could be also colonised by shags.

Style and technic.
No, i haven't think about İNT. That's why feedback is necessary. But it's the same for the 4-35, and look at the thread about the canyon city.
No problem for the door jamb. Many technics to hide anything.
It's pretentious and cold, Because of the set, but also because of the name and the past of the city. And i liked the idea of a contrast beetween the monumental acropolis and the alive slum.
Everything look aliens in MW. The Telvanni towers, the Redoran cities... Just we used to.
Gez, i don't have a lot of choice with this set.
Repetition has been used in Narsis, personaly, i like the effect, just it's a FPS killer.
For the alcove, look at the 4-35, i used the same tech.(this claim is in review but i can send a beta)
For the 10, it's already too technic! I will fall creasy if i try to breake the rythm. The 4 is not really necessary, it was a good point of view to the fortress and the slum. I agree it look Dwemer, let's wait some opinion.

To be continued...

El Scumbago · Post by **El Scumbago** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:04 am

Actually, slightly bigger than Vivec is ok, as long as it doesn't look bigger. If that's the case, my 2 cents is that the size is ok.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:09 am

Well first of kebra, I'd just like to say how nice the whole thing looks.

I really do have to mention that size is definitely an issue. Blacklight is only the former redoran capital, and the only lore about it (afaik) is exactly that.
Remember that building a normal interior adds another couple of hours of work to other people down the line. Exactly how many houses are in the city? How many larger structures (manors, fortresses, etc)
Here's a comparison of number of nterior cells:
Balmora: 41 (most of them very small)
Port Telvannis: 55 (some large tower ones, etc)
Vivec has over a hundred. (not sure of the exact amount)

Vivec is famous for being a massive city.
I know how easy it is to get carried away, but I'm sure you can use all the creativity you've shown to tone this place down in size a bit while retaining its grandeur.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:30 am

Lud, it's actually a bit bigger than Port Telvanni, but littler than Vivec. Balmora is a very little city for TR, having such a center(BL) in this part of MW make sense to me. BL was one of the cities present in Arena, Vivec not.
There is a plan(old) on the EXT forum, i can delate all on the left. For the rest, a part will be destroy and ruined(no need of İNT), what stay is not so big and full of shags easy to do.

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:40 am

Yeah, I was just getting worried that this would become a second Narsis.
Much of the int time used depends on what type of building used. Almalexia had most of its int-building time used on those gigantic F-claims and the many multi-storey 4x4 and 3x3 towers. A shack takes very little time to do, and a simple house takes not much longer. (By a rough estimate, Almalexia stands at about 300-350 interior cells and has probably consumed about 1000 modder hours)

Oh, an kebra, could you re-upload your plan pic?
It was lost in the server move.
Any chance of an exact interior breakdown?
# shacks, # houses, # towers, etc.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:31 am

And you are right to be afraid Lud, it's on the limit. I will have to work to redduce it a bit.

No chance for any list exact or not, it's to early. but if you want, i can inform you time to time. More, it's just a proposure, but because i would like to make a semi-alive city, it could be interesting to work togheter with the İNT modders to create specific locations.(in the ruined part for exemple)
It will be difficult to avoid some big İNT structure, a bit like in Vivec. But, half will be wooden shaggs of one room.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:31 pm

The plan.

Promess Morden, that's the last.

Morgoth · Post by **Morgoth** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:35 pm

Give me the .esp NOW! That looks spectacular!

Macar · Post by **Macar** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:14 pm

It looks good- especialy the way it's embeded in the cliff.

Do we normaly do this sort of thing in the tavern?

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:23 pm

Kebra's just looking for some feedback, I think.
And the tavern is simply for TR-related discussion, which this fits into.

kebra, as far as reducing it goes, I would look at replacing some of those big velothi twers with smaller ones. If a building is half as wide, the amount of time used to detail the int is about a tenth what it would have been. (Try detailing one 6x6 room and then compare that to 4 3x3 ones, you'll see what I mean.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:46 pm

Lud, if i do that, i kill the city, technically everything is already connected, also, i would like keeping it impressive like it is. Half size-half work but half pleasure.
Think about that: even big the Velothian towers are just used like passage.(doors, steps...) MW gave no İNT for them, it's a bit like a cathedral tower usually used only for steps and bells. More, a castle master tower can be very large but with so strong walls that the rooms inside are very little, to little to live in.(look at Coucy le chateau, biggest master tower ever build before artillery)
He, if i modd it's to create impressive place, not only playable place even if it's the main goal.
You now what? It's already difficult to build a big city, but with the TR limitations it become like a chinese torture.(we must create a monument to the reviewers...in BL maybee?)

Lud · Post by **Lud** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:49 pm

I'm not trying to kill the city, kebra, I really like it.
I'm just asking that you find ways to tone it down in size a bit. Ok?
Please don't take this the wrong way.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 8:24 pm

I was joking, Lud.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 9:00 pm

a monument to the reviewers would kick ass

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:51 pm

Here is it:
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/2118/bl15ow6.jpg

The lighthouse of the reviewers helping members lost in the night of TR's Lore.

More seriously, it's the BL lighthouse.

I send the picture because this structure is easy to build and could be used for the Necrom temple.

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:22 pm

Nice. Does it use custom meshes? I don't see what existing meshes could have been used to make that conical structure.

(Any new mesh should be sent my way.)

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:38 pm

He,He...

ex_vivec_w_c_01

And some TR on the top. I have to add an access also.
It's possible to use it for basin, tower, temple, and it's just a question of duplicate, resize... mathematic, no mystake possible.

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:11 pm

I really like the eastern half of the city and the lighthouse. They rock.

But the acropolis should be about half the size it is now, and no more additions beyond it. By half I mean, the whole city should fit almost within 3x2 Exterior cells. I think that would look impressive without looking monstrous in Morrowind's scale.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:35 pm

I agree with you CC, but i have no real solution that for, everything is connected and if i touch even a little part of the acropolis, that's all the city i will have to redoo, and honestly i have not this courage.

I will try to see what's possible to redduce without killing the harbor and the sides. In fact, i was unhappy with the acropolis, but i'm really satisfied by all over, it's a fucking problem.

CleverClothe · Post by **CleverClothe** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:51 pm

I think the inner harbor is too big anyway, fill it in with the buildings that are on the west side. Pack things in more.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:14 pm

In fact, i started the city by this element and everything is turning around. Also in my idea it's not a harbor but a commercial place and a rich district. It was also, when BL was at the top of is life, a sacred road for religious or civilian ceremony and a direct access for leaders, the monument has just survived the glory of the city.
And the west side is really interesting to.
And, one technical detail, those two sided buildings are impossible to rotate, just impossible.
But, i will see...

Chahiero · Post by **Chahiero** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:37 pm

The problem is two-fold

A: It's too big. The captiol of a province is almost always the biggest city, because the biggest city has the most power.

B: Simply condensing the existing city wouldn't work, then it would be too crowded. I think you should just find the section you dislike the most, and nuke it

Worked for me when I was trying to limit the size of my cities...

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:48 pm

almalaxia has 22 cells, while this only has 9.

NOTE:I may have miscounted, but I know this is less than half the number of cells in almalaxia as my counting couldn't be off by more than 3 cells