TrGMTor02 [Working, Reviewing]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 12:31 am

Tor pile 2, Another pile of stones

Reference Pics, choose 1:

[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/tor.jpg]Clickey[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/bran11.jpg]Clicky2[/url]
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/TORS_MT_SOMERS_500.jpg]Clickx3[/url]

~PoHa!

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:01 am

I am gonna claim this one.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:14 am

Horodnic, I know you said you'd work on ALL Tors, but if people are willing and able to help, then we need to utilize it.

Claimed by Warder.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:01 pm

heres one for normal mapping and the one for the game.
[url=http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/ROCKcomparison.jpg][img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/th_ROCKcomparison.jpg[/img][/url]

the one on the right is only 187 triangle faces.the one on the left is 3203 quad faces.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:08 pm

Nice work, Warder.

The .nif will have to be in triangles, AFAIK, but 187 is well below OB's poly limit for this size of rock. 3203 quads (assuming that translates into 6406 triangles?) would be slightly high.

Keep it up.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:13 pm

should I raise the count for the low poly one to 500 then? cause I amusing the hi poly one for my normalmap and I think that it would look a bit better in the game if it was.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:20 pm

Well, based upon the looks of it, and the size I'm imagining it to be, and comparing that size with Beth's rocks' polycounts, I'd say that you can shoot for around 700 or 800, actually.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:29 pm

well then if its alright with everyone here is the final model comparison.then I can normal map it and get it textured and such so that we can get it in-game.
unless someone thinks it needs more work?
[url=http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/ROCKcomparison-1.jpg][img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/th_ROCKcomparison-1.jpg[/img][/url]

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:18 pm

Hmm...

The layer of the tor that sticks out the most seems slightly too flat to me, and the bottom looks like they flare out, which could be annoying to exterior modders.

Those are the only suggestions I have.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:35 pm

I will interject as Exterior Guy. Rocks and anything else that get's placed on the ground, needs an area that is supposed to be under the ground... almost like roots. These 'roots' should taper inward on themselves and be darker in color. This goes for rocks, trees, architucture, and other things that need to sit in the ground. So, to PoHa! and meshers, please keep this in mind when making and reviewing meshes like these.

(for references on what I am talking about, take a look at rocks Bethmade in the CS, these roots are important because the engine that places these objects needs room to move them up and down and rotate them based on the slope they are generated on)

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:49 pm

alright that should not be too hard. I have decided to make all 3 of the reference pics.(if thats alright)
so here is what I have of one of the other pics: http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/?action=view&current=rock2comparison.jpg&refPage=&imgAnch=imgAnch1

by the way do you mean the ends should be extruded in?
and go down further?

EDIT:is this what you want? [url=http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/ROCKcomparison-2.jpg][img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/th_ROCKcomparison-2.jpg[/img][/url]

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:50 pm

Exactly, those were the mesher-words I was trying to use.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:59 pm

Warder, I love you, man. Keep it up.

About the tapering in/extruding in/going in -ness of the meshes, yea, that should apply for all rocks, and I've come up with a crappy diagram cut-away to show you how it should be:

Code: Select all

 ____
|    | 
|    |
\    /

if they are like so:

Code: Select all

 ____
|    | 
|    |
/    \

then it limits the usage, because they have to be rotated/positioned to ensure that those flares aren't poking out of the ground and causing caspers.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:17 pm

okay so can I move on to textures now? Normally I don't want to but for these I might. I need to setup the UV's then texture i, then make a normal map and then convert everything to .dds and nif. It would be nice to finish the first one today.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:22 am

textures!!!

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/3dModels/bran11.jpg

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:38 am

Hmm, so, has this been finished Warder? Just waiting on the texture, right? Eh? Or have you been working on that yourself?

An update would be nice.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:03 pm

If this is finished, Warder man, please upload it as soon as you can. Especially if you have it UV unwrapped, which would be best for Noir to get the texture work going.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:32 pm

both the high poly and the low poly models are done. I will upload them soon.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:40 pm

Great, good to hear from you again, Warder!

Also, you asked for textures a few posts up. This is a base that you can use.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17829]Clickey[/url]

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:00 am

unfortunatly I am not gonna texture it, here is the.obj files of the high and low poly versions. I want to model again!

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:02 am

Come on. Expand your horizons and learn how to texture it. Might as well just delete the file.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:39 am

here is a textured version of the second rock using the textures above and the .obj files for it too.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:01 pm

My apologies to Warder for missing this post for so long. By the date it was posted, that's right around when I left for Christmas Break. Why you got no responses at all for your second Tor here eludes me, and is agitating.

For your second Tor, the large slab of rock underneath the pile will almost definately need to be removed. I will look at these soon, and see if I can't get a texture on the first one.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:18 pm

I apologise as well. Seeing as how I asked you to texture it. Sorry Warder.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:19 am

its alright I will fix it right away.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 12:54 am

Sweetness Warder!

Did you ever unwrap that first Tor? I liked it quite a bit too, actually.

One of the things I've noticed, is that many Oblivion rocks have the top layered with a texture, and then there's a texture around the sides that wraps unto itself seamlessly. It creates a not so pretty seam around the top, though its not stand out noticeable either. It might be something to try with that first one.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:17 am

here is an updated pic I had to remap and retexture because of some stupidity of mine. [img]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/rock2pre.jpg[/img]

I will set to work unwrapping the first one.
if you guys want something changed or added to the texture please tell me.on the left are two version of the high poly and on the right a 2 versions of the lowpoly

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:32 am

Good to see these are getting the attention they needed again, and good to see you around me

Like I was saying on IRC, though, 10k is too high for a rock model, and 241 is cutting your model too low.

Then again, you were saying something about normal maps which I had never heard of/seen before, so I don't know what exactly you were saying, and it led to some miscommunication, I think. If those work, then that's great.

(Note for everyone else: the_warder was referring to a different type of normal maps, NOT the _n.dds kind, which, frankly, has thrown me for a loop of all kinds and colors)

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Tue Feb 06, 2007 6:04 am

Perhaps he was thinking of displacement maps/parallax maps which will actually morph geometry based on a texture map... unfortunately those are not possible in Oblivion unless somebody has coded a new shader for the engine. I've read that the jail cell of the intro sequence uses displacement maps on the bricks, but i'm not so sure. In any case we don't have access to that shader and unless somebody writes one into the engine, we never will. Normal maps can create the illusion of displacement, but its only good for detailing because as soon as you get close or see it from an angle everything appears flat

.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:17 am

here is some info on the normal maps I am talking about.
mostly object space and tangent space.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_map
from what I understand you can use programs like
Microsoft's melody to do this.
basically you make a high poly model and A low poly one and merge them.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 2:40 am

I know you're convinced otherwise, but from what I understand from the link you gave, its just exactly as I thought (ie, its an extra .dds file that is used to calculate what the model would look like when lit from differing angles). I didn't read anything on there about merging a high poly model and a low poly one.

Both Photoshop and the Gimp can create normal maps, and Oblivion/the CS looks for them to be as the same name as the color map, with a _n.dds 'extension' (for lack of a better term).

It is somewhat common to see on ESF that a mesher doesn't know why their model is appearing black in game (or worse, disappearing) and the answer to their problems seems commonly to be that they didn't have a normal map texture.

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 3:03 am

There's no actual merging the two files.

What happens is that a normal map is generated from an extraordinarily highpoly model... intricate details and everything. Then it applies that normal map to your lowpoly model, and the illusion is that you've got more detail on your low poly model, but no geometry is altered.

To make it work effectively, your low poly model still has to look decent. Even with a normal map generated from a high poly model, the low poly geometry will be clearly visible. The high poly model must also be extremely detailed to the point where it might not be worth it. You might be best off adding more detail to your current low poly model so that it looks like a rock, and create a normal map from the color map as you would regularly.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Wed Feb 07, 2007 1:29 pm

alright then how many polys should I raise it to?

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:40 am

Judging from what I imagine to be the size of these, and from comparison with OB rocks, how about somewhere in the range of 2k-3k.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 5:08 am

here is an update. about 3200 triangles and still nice looking. and suggestions would be great.
http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y296/sealsareus/?action=view&current=rock2.jpg

Fairwater · Post by **Fairwater** » Thu Feb 08, 2007 6:36 am

They are looking good warder.

I would just suggest, now i don't know how but that you maybe tried to reduce the "blockyness" of the rocks. You could do this by adding ledges and plateaus to the rocks already present(you can see what i am referring to on the reference picture, on the rock to the farthest right). And maybe having some parts jutting out as well.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:10 am

thats a nice idea and I will see what I can do but it seems like these rocks would be a bit blocky anyway.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Fri Feb 09, 2007 2:10 am

Upload them, if you feel its good; if you wish to continue to work on them, I won't stop you.

Little plateaus and ledges etc. on the rocks would give them more character, to be certain, but they already look pretty good to me, so I'll leave that up to you, warder.

The_Warder · Post by **The_Warder** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:29 am

here is the model for rock 2 and the textures for it which can be applied to each other in nifscope.

It's all set up. I am gonna touch up the first one some more and then I will upload that.

by the way the textures are the base ones someone on here made and there are 2 variations.

PoHa! · Post by **PoHa!** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:58 am

I get an error when trying to unzip them. Anyone else?