Tamriel Rebuilt

Ok so i need some help here. Right now we have this concept for Temples
[url=http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/PoHaEiFor/ConceptArt/Model%20Concepts/UCTemple.jpg]Current Temple[/url]
I was just wanting some input because this temple once made will be used hammerfell wide. What are your opinions. Me, i think it is too small.... i imagine it being more grandiose

Ps we should have other temples to other dieties that exists like the sakatal(sp?) temple but this is the main temple like the main cathedral in cyrodil. Ps should there be a sakatal temple in rihad?

here are some other concepts i rounded up..... i would really like people to contribute to this and add to it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/Haydenwashington/nedic2.jpg
http://www.bornfreesafaris.com/images/landscapes/church_bet_giorgis.jpg
http://img138.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tmple9tl.jpg


http://img164.imageshack.us/my.php?image=trrihad5yj.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rihad028fx.jpg

I like the basilica like building in Nyren's picture of Rihad- but it's not very big. I also like my Satakal temple, but it is rather modest too.

I'd preffer if we made one that didnt look too much like a mosque- more like some unusual temple. Also- If we have a province wide model we'll have to pick a material that will look good with all the different province colorschemes.

One thing it definitely needs is an object which can be visible from a distance around - its really useful for orientation to have some vertical point of reference, and I usually look to the steeples of the churches in Oblivion.

A tall minaret perhaps? Or maybe just a large flag of some description.

something quite unique, to be sure. I like the idea of a minaret, and to weird it up a bit would be best. If you can judge a town by it's tallest structure..

Which religion would this temple be for? This one can be big, but when it comes time to make one for Satakal i'm inclined to go for something more modest.

ummmm i dont know........is there a major religion in hammerfell that is diffrent than imperial besides yokundan or is that a large relgion aswell?

The two main religions are the Yoku Temple, and Imperial Cult. The Yoku Temple is the largest, since the Imperial Cult only has a strong influence in Taneth, and smaller influences in Rihad and some of the Lhotunic cities. The Yoku Temple, by contrast, is revered in all Crown cities, and has modest importance in Lhotunic cities.
Here is a concept I did a while ago:
[url=http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerfelltempledesertdt8.jpg][img]http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6815/hammerfelltempledesertdt8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
It's based off photos of Hindu temples in India that I saw online.
With the Yoku Temples, I feel we have an opportunity to really go nuts. In terms of weirding up the minaret, we could take some influence from the tower thingy in my concept. I'm not sure if that thing is a tower, if it serves any purpose, or if it's just there to look cool, but look cool it does, and we could make use of it. I also think that the idea of an open, porch-like entrance and wings, shown in my concept, is something we could persue, since the Imperial Chapels were very box-like, closed structures.

@Dexter: I like the idea of using this kind of concept. Also, by using this kind of architecture that is already quite 'modular' IRL, TR can get away with creating many different temples just by varying the number of pieces.
The same pieces that would make up your temple concept could just as easily be used for a huge Angkor Vat like temple complex.

About the 'tower'

If the pictures I've seen are anything to go by, the top of the 'tower' is not accessible (without a ladder). There is a large high and very elaborate 'vault' inside (following the contours of the tower but lower), where, no doubt, the statue of some deity stands.
Spires that look different, but are based on the same principle in Thailand sometimes have a second vault above the main on on the ground floor. in this vault supposedly treasures and/or relics are walled in.
IIRC you usually enter these kinds of 'towers' from the main temple interior.

[edit] By the Hoarfather! You'd think that the library would be able to afford a decent internet connection. Signing in with imageshack is giving me pure Oblivion!
CRIES...

Dexter wrote: [url=http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerfelltempledesertdt8.jpg][img]http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6815/hammerfelltempledesertdt8.th.jpg[/img][/url]
It's based off photos of Hindu temples in India that I saw online.
With the Yoku Temples, I feel we have an opportunity to really go nuts.

I really like this concept - only thing that I'm not too sure about is the "blocky" feel to it but it think that could be solved with some good texture work, I'm thinking carvings all over the walls...everywhere!

like this: http://www.indiaplaces.com/img/meenakshi-temple-03.jpg http://www.wayfaring.info/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/srimeenaksh.jpg

- and statues are a must! I think that is a really good base though to work from.

This is actually a Royal pavilion that I made, rather than a temple, but it has the architectural elements (from the Ruins topic) that I would also use for a temple.

[url=http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yokubanquetinghallcolormc9.jpg][img]http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/8402/yokubanquetinghallcolormc9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Why is it a profane building rather than a temple?
Mostly because of the tapir's head. The tapir is the animal symbol of revelry, and that doesn't sit well with the worship of the more serious deities.

[edit] P.S.: the present Concept is fine with me, but it would be a shame if it would be the only temple architecture in HF, it looks too modern.

my feeling is that temples should be built in the style of each town, but stil have some influences from older, "pure-er" yoku style (see this pic). making a whole new style for temples would make them stand out too much and create more work for most areas of the project.

many temples are probably quite old, perhaps onlder then the city surounding them. wich makes me think that they have been renevated. it would be cool to go down to the older layers of the temple. perhaps some temples were built directly around ancient ones (see mayan pyramids).

some small cities would probably have small temples set up in some house, kind of a make-shift altar thing (table with offerings and statuet maybe). i think this make sence becuase the redguard's religion is much more casual then the imperials.

as for hindu insperation, i see the older temples more as insperation. somehow i dont see the very elaborate stone carving as yoku, but some simpler (yet still elegant) stuff i feel is more appropriate. see this article for what i feel is appropriate insperation (or close enough to it) http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/mandapeshwar/. yes, i read archeology magasine the temple in the article is in an old, rather neglected cave, so it is save to asume that a redguard temple would be better taken care off.

now, leading off on another tangent. egypt. i feel that brigh paint would be realy interesting to have in some temples, again because of redguard religious easiness (cant think of better word). large tapestries embroydered with various gods and heroes (taken directly from lute's pictures posibly) would also be realy neat.

realy, i think we should do a WTG on the temples. its hard to design something when we dont realy yet know how we want to do it yet (based on the variety of ideas in this thread).

sorry that this post is so all-over-the-place.

As for each city having its own temple i say lets just worry about rihad and GM right now.

agreed, just speaking to the future

All temples should look the same.

Here's a temple gate:

[url=http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yokutorancf9.jpg][img]http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/6010/yokutorancf9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I drew it after this illustration:

[url=http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=toranandstuffmp4.jpg][img]http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/9272/toranandstuffmp4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Dex, i would love to go with yours as a base, would you be able to whip up some more scketches maybe with a miranet? What is everyone else feelings on this?

Well, since Dexter's temple is directly inspired by Hindu (or so it seems to me), and Hindu is a crossover between Chinese and Middle-eastern architecture, I'd say it's the very definition of Yoku. Thus, I couldn't see this fitting in GM, but I would like to see it in-game. So we might as well do a research concerning the areas that have the strongest Yoku influence.

El Scumbago wrote:Hindu is a crossover between Chinese and Middle-eastern architecture

Having studied Hindu architecture in the last few weeks, I'd say it's actually the other way round. Hindu architecture like the architecture in Dexter's concept came first and elements of it were subsequently applied to both Muslim and Buddhist (and from there to Chinese) architecture.

Apart from this detail I agree with you.

Indian Mughal architecture (like e.g. used in the Taj Mahal) is an example of how Muslim architecture was influenced by Hindu architecture. If we want a Goldmoor temple with Yoku elements, perhaps designing a temple that way could be a starting point?

I thought that the Hindu culture lasted much longer then the Muslim culture.

the hindu culture started earlier then the muslim culture, but they are still both around. i think that you are both wrong about the influence thing however. the muslims did not have contact with india for a while after their development, untill then they were basing their architecture on existant stuff in the area and influencing surrounding cultures. the bhudist influence is a "now duh" since budism originated in india and realy did borrow many of the native styles. just to be clear i am talking about pure, arabian, muslim architecture, not mughal empire architecture (wich could be argued as non-islamic due to various sepparations).

while indian elemets would be nice in a temple, i dont think that adding indian flavah will make it yoku. yoku is much more then just a single region of the world. Also, one has to rember that rihad and taneth were overrun by the Camoran Usurper. the temples might have been nearly or partly destoryed, and the subsiquent rulers would have had to rebuild them. depending on the ruler and the architect, the temple might not be as faithfull to history as it was originaly. the temples are also renivated and stuff (again, assumption), people like Clavilla would have added many more imperial elements into the mixture.

Who draws the best Concept wins the discussion hands down...

Harke the Apostle wrote:Who draws the best Concept wins the discussion hands down...

Who draws the best Concepts gets to do the planars and interiors and details as well (this little guy has lotsa stuff t'do).

Dexter wrote: [url=http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hammerfelltempledesertdt8.jpg][img]http://img459.imageshack.us/img459/6815/hammerfelltempledesertdt8.th.jpg[/img][/url]

I really recognise that Dexter, was that from somewhere specific. Like the old Monkey Island games or something?

Anyway, in relation to my recent rant, I think we really need to work on this from the ground up... without basing it so much on other cultures. Just taking hints of the Arabic culture, like the domes. Ill do a quick design.

Anyway, in relation to my recent rant, I think we really need to work on this from the ground up... without basing it so much on other cultures. Just taking hints of the Arabic culture, like the domes. Ill do a quick design.

i could not agree more. thinking in terms of earthly cultures limits creativity.

[url=http://img112.imageshack.us/my.php?image=yokutemplegreenfw2.jpg][img]http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/6913/yokutemplegreenfw2.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Love the idea. It almost reminds me a Mesopotamian Ziggurat, which is something we can use as a base and combine it with typical islamic and Raga elements. I'm thinking of it more as a Monastery than a temple though. And here's something I'd love to draw for a temple (heavily tweaked of course). Eyeball wanted to give it a shot as well iirc.


http://www.uth.gr/main/images/meteora1.jpg
http://www.stadia.gr/trikala/trikala3.jpg

What about a temple built in a mountain, like Petra Temple in Jordan? Would that be lore compliant?

[img]http://www.brown.edu/Departments/Anthropology/Petra/pics/treasury.jpg[/img]

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EDIT1

I took the liberty of designing a temple similar to Petra Temple. Whether its lore compliant or not makes little difference because it stills introduces some ideas that can be discussed. I didn't take the time to texture the temple, but I think it gives a fairly good idea of where I want to go.

[url=http://img114.imageshack.us/my.php?image=templemt2.jpg][img]http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/9500/templemt2.th.jpg[/img][/url]
[url=http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?image=temple2lg0.jpg][img]http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/8739/temple2lg0.th.jpg[/img][/url]

Sload wrote:All temples should look the same.

I agree with Sload here. All temples should indeed look the same, but all of them would be dedicated to different purposes. For example, the main tower in my concept could change from temple to temple. This one could be something like the "Pillar of the Genesis" (whatever), whilst the temple in the neighbour town would be the "Pillar of Void". Each "Pillar" would differentiate themselves by the various ornaments sticked on them. As you can see, it would be possible to climb into the "Pillar", via some kind of exotic combination of pathways and stairs.

Inside the temples could reside a statue of some god, also dedicated to the temple "theme" (void, genesis, etc...) much like in the Daedric shrines in TES3.

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EDIT2

Maybe it'd be cool to light fires at the top of the "Pillar" at night. It'd be like some kind of lighthouse, but in the desert...

[img]http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1735/desertnightsv9.jpg[/img]

The lighthouse would guide lost, wandering souls to the comfortable shelter of the temple.

Dexter's concept looks like a nightmare to model: but it would certainly benifit being a monastary rather than a temple. HF would have to warp alot of architecture to fit that being in a city: I think it should be in-game one way or the other.

@Sload: temples most certainly should not be identical. similar yes, but not the same. same looks cheap. One temple for each building set. Not every province in HF worships Zenithar or Arkay. a Catholic Cathedral doesn't look anything like a Viking Mead Hall which doesn't look anything like a Muslim temple.

Upsilon: your idea about having different towers and differentstatues of gods really sounds good.

Upsilon: I had a similar idea for which I made some concepts, but I still don't know if Oblivion's scale will allow us to have a canyon big enough for such a temple. I do hope so however.

What about that lighthouse thing? Would that be feasible/interesting?

I suppose yes. A nice place to put it would be the peninsula of Hnes Rax, where the lighthouse would be visible from the nearby shores.

that and make the fire very large: OB's draw distance would alow for some cool effects.

El Scumbago wrote:I suppose yes. A nice place to put it would be the peninsula of Hnes Rax, where the lighthouse would be visible from the nearby shores.

That'd be nice indeed, but a lighthouse placed in the middle of the desert, not visible from the shores would be quite exotic.

Christian cathedrals offered shelter to the poor and homeless during the cold nights of winter. I propose we do the same here - I heard nights in the desert can be very cold too. The lighthouse would guide people that lost themselves in the desert back to the temple, where they could enjoy shelter. It would only be lit at night.

wil there be flatland desert in HF?

The Helkori Plains at least will be pretty flat, being plains and all. There may be some more areas that are flat.

i meant like barren sand. i know that Alik'r Desert and Dak'fron are both wide stretches of sand. unless we were going to build different lighthouses then i think it would be a shame to waste the only one on plains or moors or such.

The Alik'r is a hard one. Due to Oblivion's draw distance and the scale of the world, the Alik'r must have dunes and other objects to hide its borders, so that the player can't see how small it is (small for a desert, that is). This is not written in stone of course, but it's the most likely occasion, as I've understood.

with regard to what sload said about all temples being the same , its very true that most temples are built with the same exterior design , even look almost identical ! but what is most obvious is that any time a church or chapel, cathedral, temple, place of worship has been built by different architects they are fundamentally the same , however are artistically different, the details are all different.

every muslim temple is similar in shape and design but when it comes to the art that adorns the walls each is entirely unique , the same with other temples the statues and carvings the lintels are all different , even in christian churches , the stain glass windows !

so yes lets have the outer shells the same , the basic structure but have the artistic values different.

I have a new idea:

Little Hagia Sophia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Hagia_Sophia

http://www.spraguephoto.com/search.lasso?category=%2BLandscape&country=%2BTurkey&id=11167

(fourth image from the right)
I have plans and sections which I'll edit into this post after dinner. (no facades unfortunately).

[url=http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=littlehagia1uq7.jpg][img]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/502/littlehagia1uq7.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=littlehagia2sd9.jpg][img]http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7122/littlehagia2sd9.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[update]

This is a ‘temple’ from the inside out. It’s part of a place called Hakhpat in Armenia.

[url=http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hamsaspnw4.jpg][img]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4930/hamsaspnw4.th.jpg[/img][/url]

[url=http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hamasaspru0.jpg][img]http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4908/hamasaspru0.th.jpg[/img][/url]