About Dres Architecture

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:11 pm

I know that this was discussed many times, but still, it seems that there are no concrete and final decision.

I know that the old set was buggy, and for someone uglym there was no interior tileset.. and so on. S o decideing, that everything Dres will be made with Velothi tile set, is a reasonable decision.

Although it isn't the best IMHO.

WHy not a retexture of the Velothi tileset? Everything can stay as it is now, just a simple search and replace...

and you know what? I have an almost complete retexture of this tileset

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot39.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot40.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot41.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot42.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot43.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot44.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot46.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot47.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot48.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot49.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q275/Petiboy/ScreenShot50.jpg

What do you say?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:15 pm

I've looked at a random selection and the lighting's been rather weird on them all, but here's my thoughts:

1: Why green?

2: To my eyes, it doesn't actually look different enough from normal Velothi. Nomadic had a good CA up of a Dres set, which was very good to my eyes. It was a re-tex of Velothi to greys and blues, and with some additional 'mesh enhancements', just subtle differences. If someone (maybe you, seeing as you appear to have the will) were to go about that, that would be very nice.

Still, great effort though, and perhaps others more in the know will have more to say.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:31 pm

1. I always imagined, the Dres terrritory as a dense, swmapy, sometimes jungles. So I tihnk the green would match with it very well. To enchance the secretive, bit isolationist nature of Dres, the interior is dark red ( because the Velothi architecture use the textures sometimes realy helter-skelter the exterior also has this dark red/bourdon feeling ).

2. I know, it dosen't differ too much, because it is a RETEX. I didn't modified any meshes.

I saw Nomadic's concept too... but I ain't no modeller, I have never made anything with such a program, and ATM I don't have the time to learn it.

The grey+blue dosen't differs from the original velothi textures too much ( greenish blue+brownish grey )... infact it is almost like the Necrom tileset colors, just a bit darker... And so it's not unique either

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:35 pm

A final decision has been made.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:37 pm

Green, hm... Not my preferred choice. The concept of retexturing isn't a bad idea, but maybe with some other colors?

The "Dres region" is, as far as I remember, kinda like the West Gash region or so? Where's the good 'ol region map?

EDIT: Sload has spoken

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:38 pm

Let me ask...
Dres tileset = Velothi tileset, without anything unique

Pff... and why? Because it's boring?

EDIT:
If no one likes the greenyness, I can desaturate it, and add some blue to it, or lleave it grey

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:46 pm

Retex away if you want. Who knows, you could change our minds.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:48 pm

As far as I see it, and I wasn't here when TR was messing with velothi architecture, a velothi retexture makes no sense at all. A modified meshes and retextures set could be nice, but a retexture, that isn't even too far away from the vanilla work, looks... cheap(isn't really logical). It reminds of the time, I downloaded wizards islands mod. And I opened it in CS and saw a new race, that was pretending to be a new one, and in fact looked exactly like a simple khajiit retex. And I thought... "omg, that's really lame".

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:50 pm

Okay... I hope I can do.

I don'T say, that there is nothing that someone can do with the normal Velothi tileset, to make it lok unique, but it's almost covered in Blacklight...

And it would be boring to look at a Great HOuse that dosen't have the creativity to think out a not just a lightly unique style. Pfoh... not just boring, but almost pathetic inmy opinion.

EDIT: @aro101
IMO a simple velothi tileset is more cheaper. Nomadic's changes on the meshes wsn'T realy big, still no one wanted to do it, as I saw.

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:54 pm

Dude it looks fine and your convictions that it looks retarded are actually kinda annoying.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:56 pm

Sload wrote:Dude it looks fine and your convictions that it looks retarded are actually kinda annoying.

Sorry Sload...

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:10 pm

Ok...
Sorry from everyone..

I don't know how to make it differ from the velothi more, but I'll try something.
If yomeone wants to help me, with editing the meshes to make them look a bit other than the Velothi, I'll be very glad.

EDIT: and I'll desaturate the green parts, no one seems to like them.

Lutemoth · Post by **Lutemoth** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:22 pm

heheh, don't take Sload's words too strongly, Petey. There aren't enough people here that get to the point (myself greatly included) as Sload-racer does

I recall that Nomadic had a [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19256]similar idea[/url] of taking this on, and if you need any specific doodles, carvings or what-have-you, I'm willing to pitch in

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:27 pm

Personally, I'm in favour of the blue/grey retex, just because it is (I feel) more strikingly different from Velothi to the green/red version, and also lends itself to a different palet of interior lighting, wheras the one you whipped up looks like a decent retex of Velothi, that could be conceivably used for the vanilla game and not look out of place, which is the problem, from my point of view, because the interiors will have the same 'feel'.

The bluey-grey would be awesome (just a re-tex), but if the mesh could be tweaked, it'd be twice as awesome.

Looking at Nomad's thread, though, rather than Nomad's scheme, I'd have it be a 'bluey-grey' (like he has on the borders, but slightly bluer) for the main part, rather than white, and then choosing a fitting colour for the borders, that'd really be up to the texturer.

My thoughts.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:30 pm

Lutemoth wrote:heheh, don't take Sload's words too strongly, Petey. There aren't enough people here that get to the point (myself greatly included) as Sload-racer does

I recall that Nomadic had a [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19256]similar idea[/url] of taking this on, and if you need any specific doodles, carvings or what-have-you, I'm willing to pitch in

Thank you Lutemoth

what I realy need is a good "border carving"/pattern...

Thank you again!

EDIT:
@Crustacean The thing is that the interiors are using mostly only one big texture repeated ove everything

If someone could "break" the meshes so, that they would use different textures...

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:33 pm

Sload beats the bush, the rest of us around it

xeth-ban · Post by **xeth-ban** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:45 pm

Nemon wrote:Sload beats the bush, the rest of us around it

And you do nothing to stop Sload from beating up the poor innocent bush? Shame on you guys, shame on you.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:53 pm

xeth-ban wrote: And you do nothing to stop Sload from beating up the poor innocent bush? Shame on you guys, shame on you.

Thanky Xeth

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:57 pm

protip: when reading sload posts ignore the insults

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:02 pm

So... Here is the new white version ATM.

How do you like it? I think some ornament on the dome could look good would...

EDIT: and the two bug design I made for this

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:19 pm

That was better! Not that my opinion weighs most, but maybe change the red as well?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:23 pm

any chance of you perhaps editing the meshes so that there is a bit of foundation below the building, allowing us to limit the number of those ugly and annoying velothi foundations? (other changes would need to be made to call it the dres tileset, but I HATE how the velothi buildings just stop like they do.

As far as the coloring goes, it looks nice, but I am not sure if it is "Dres". Needs to be more blue, and I don't think the red really fits.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:24 pm

( *sigh* byebye my visions of dresism

)

I'll change it... to dark blue, with this shade of white. And maybe some other changes aswell.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:55 pm

The new interior. Any suggestions is welcome. More blue, less blue, darker, lighter...
(screenshot taken in Nifskope)

Should I add make the exterior "white" textures a bit blueish too asn in the exterior?

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:19 pm

We can make it Dres with addon elements like windows, doorjamb, steps...

A bit darker and maybee blue (but i'm colorblind) to be perfect.
I don't like the gold borders, silver is better with dark-blue.
If you send some meshes i could test them on one of the Dres cities i work.
And, yes, Trigg is right, if it could be possible to fix some of the Velothi set mystakes, it should be great.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:07 pm

Man, this is amazing. Absolutely brilliant!

I like both versions very much (though not the red on the first's doorframe and roof), absolute quality.

If Lute's not too busy, perhaps we could get some bug sketches from him, just because Lute adds that final touch of absolute class to any project.

My only issue would be, on the second one, that the 'bug panel' seems perhaps too over-decorative, and would get irritating when repeated over a long corridor? Perhaps you could create two versions of the hall, one with the bugs, one without (retaining the main colour of the wall, as with Velothi, rather than staying that dark blue), so that interiorers could alternate or whatever for design funkiness and choice?

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:27 pm

Ofcourse Crustacean, making it without the bugcarwings isn't hard, but first I want to know, that the new color schemes are good or not

Ofcourse if Lute will make some bugs and things I'Ll add it without question

Do you think that Is hould change the gold to silver too?

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:28 pm

I like the interior way more... But doesn't it look too expensive?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:31 pm

I like the gold, myself.

However, I actually lean towards the white one you did first. Dunno why, but without the red doorframe and roof, I think it'd be really nifty.

The blue is still very nice, but I'm starting to wonder whether it actually 'works'. Would they paint it blue, or what? I don't think there's any blue stone in Morrowind. And painting each and every building the same colour seems a bit... overkill.

EDIT: But, rambling like this I'm probably going to just make things more complicated, and I don't really know what I'm talking about. I'll let the rest of you get up to planning: as long as we get something out of it I'll be thrilled.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:44 pm

Hm... You are right, there is no blue stone in Morrowind

The dark blue parts can be painted though.

If the others will agree, I'll bleach the lighter blue parts to white.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:24 pm

The lighter texture on that dome looks a lot better. I don't think TR should go the way of a simple retex of the Velothi. IMO we also need mesh changes. What you have done will work fine for the four small block houses, the walls, foundation pieces, bridges, and other stuff like that. The curved buildings, the larger buildings, the towers, cantons, and the domed building need mesh changes.

For interiors, TR should completely make up a new tileset IMO.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:33 pm

IMO, I think it's a good WIP but maybe to really make it seem different, a different type of column. Every tileset has its own special column. The column is what gives away the fact that this is a retexture. How bout a humanoid from the waist up holding the ceiling up? How bout amber columns?

In regards to color, I always dreamed of the texture from the dagoth platform, a nice black marble.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:40 pm

Nomadic1 wrote:For interiors, TR should completely make up a new tileset IMO.

OMG, everything, but not this, please. Interiors are pain, modulars are pain. Interior modular set... Ewww. You won't find anyone here that will be willing to do a completely NEW interior tileset. Some modifications could be done though (stuff like additional details).

Edit(second thought):

Morrowind meshes are schematic enough to add enough changes with the texture.

kebra · Post by **kebra** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:49 pm

Anyway it's far better than using the Velothi set, and changing the meshes is easy, copy-past, the time to wait better...or nothing.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 7:54 am

I think Aro is right...

Although it would be cool a new interior set that matches the exterior, but Velothi is has the most customisable interior set, the different domes, towers, plaza's, the pit tiles... etc It would be hard to make such a variety

Nomadic's exterior concept is good, not too much, but enough. We need such changes, and concepts for the other building too.. And of course a modeller

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:56 am

Hmm, when you finish retexturing, we might ask Darknut to give a try modifying the meshes. Or well, you might even ask him for help, when he'll be finished with the stuff I gave him now. I believe he would like to work on this.

Peterboy · Post by **Peterboy** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:34 pm

Another bunch of textures, recolored, retraced.

The floor of the cantons should be blue or white? I would make it blue, for the contrast... it had, and has similar hexagonal design as the windows, just with stone texture.

I'll talk with Darknut about the meshes certanly

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:38 pm

Me likes.

Maybe someone could create special lamps made from bug wings or something. Good work.

Theo · Post by **Theo** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:59 pm

Looking good. But if you really want to create new set for house Dres you cannot just limit yourself to retextures. It will require many new models among others:
Tapestries, carpets, banners, bannerhangers and specific items like lamps, lanterns, candels, furniture and some unique features like windows, doors, doorjambs, addons, domes...

As far as I am concerned, it would be desirable if only the basic buildings remained the same. Windows, doors or other details can be remodeled. There is no reason why the window and the brazier should be just retextured. Show as some new models.

Without such new models just retexture of Velothi (now matter how good) will look extremely cheap.

aro101 · Post by **aro101** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:13 pm

Just not overload darknut with requests on this stage please.

Hmm, Theo, as I said, Morrowind meshes are schematic. That means they give you a lot of freedom. Take a dome for example. All domes are just the same shape, what determines the design is the texture and its mapping. And because of this schematic nature all of this...

Tapestries, carpets, banners, bannerhangers

Are just retextures. Meh, I can even bet beth made 1/3 of their morrowind nifs basing on a retexture.

And who needs dres specific candles anyway? The point is, a good retexture can be magic. Especially with such a limitated mesh set. There's a huge difference between a filtered out retexture and a retexture I would accept as a dres arch set.

I like the hexagons

and white turning to grey should be good for the floor