The Definitive Map 2 Checklist

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:36 am

The Definitive Map 2 Checklist

Stuff in red is done already.

Stuff in black needs to be done.

Map 1: A version needs to be released alongside Map 2 that is not gonna throw up massive error reports with the new Data. We should take this opportunity to also make some fixes here, to generally make things better. Here are the details:

1- Deal with these errors by replacing bed/boats with their new equivalents, and deleting butterfly references.

Code: Select all

Missing object "TR_ex_longboatTF02" for reference during cell "Firewatch Docks" load.
Missing object "TR_ex_longboatTF01" for reference during cell "Firewatch" load.
Missing object "TR_cr_but_pmicro" for reference during cell "Ravalas Cavern" load.
Missing object "TR_cr_but_gmicro" for reference during cell "Caved-in Cavern" load.
Missing object "TR_act_de_Bed_05" for reference during cell "Alendu Plantation, Mansion" load.

2- Possibly give the new unique heads in Data (Telvanni head honchos, various MQ folk) to the appropriate people. Maybe leave this for the MQ file, though.

3- Fix the 'join the Thieves Guild' error, as well as the unfiltered TR Mages Guild for Gindaman one. Actually, just fix all the 'actual errors' reported in Hints and Spoilers. World errors and stuff on a minor level like that, reported in their respective threads, will not be included.

4- Remove references to Darconis, Alt'Bosara.

5- Rename Gah Ouadaruhn to Llothanis.

6- Create joining dialogue for Imperial Cult (which may have quests in Map 2, and Map 1, and who knows which will be released first - so get it in here first so that there's no confusion)

TR Data: This is easy stuff, but important. Hap will have to do it, being the Data Meister.

1- Merge Petiboy's new heads (all three packs) so that the correct heads for Map 2 characters can be used in this release.

2- Merge my two fixes - Vampire voices and spellbooks.

3- Move Map 2 regions from Map2.esp/m to here? (Map 1's regions are in Data, I think)

4- Put in the new banners for Llothanis and Helnim.

5- Merge MMMowSkwoz's proper Spellbook Fix. (Found in Data Updates thread)

6- Make generic Peterboy heads 'playable'.

Map 2 itself: Again easy, and again probably down to Hap, him being the possessor of the most recent file 'n' all.

1- Finish that Map 1/2 border region. The only 'big' job.

2- Use whatever tool it is to remove all the names from cells that aren't cities or landmarks (and 'Lake Boethiah' cells, which are named, though it's hard to tell, because they have a region all their own with that name too). Then apply regions to Map 2 from TR Data.

3- Having done 2, perform the Helnim Fix, which I may have to deal with, but will take all of ten seconds to do. Or someone else could do it, it's this simple:

*blah*

4- Apply Peterboy's heads from Data to the relevant Map 2 people (Vaerin, Dralothas Omothran, Rilmas Athyrion, Llevari Telsaran, Darran Flavius, Narrusa Darythi (Mad Lord))

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:30 pm

Added something to the list.

And yeah, regions are in Data because some regions span several maps. It would be pointless to have a "Map1 Boethian Mountains" and a "Map2 Boethian Mountains" for example.

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:59 pm

Are we going to release Map 2 on its own since it's like Telvannis Part 2? Or are we going to add it on to Map 1 and release a big map? It would be kind of weird to have quests for half of it and no quests for the other half. When are we going to merge them? Once they're both completely done?

Sload · Post by **Sload** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:04 pm

I believe we said "when the first release of map 2 with quests was made"

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:19 pm

k thanks

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:56 pm

Just to allay my own twitchiness over lack of release, would someone mind helping me get started on the bulk of this stuff, by posting up an .esp version of the current Public Release .esm of Map 1?

Then I can get to work on this over the weekend, and hopefully have the Map 1 bits done soon.

Then Hap needs to finish the abovementioned stuff with Map 2 and Data, and we're all set for release.

Sound okay?

Post by **Haplo** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:57 am

Does TESDTK not work for you?

Also, what?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:52 am

No. Dunno why.

Well, I mean pretty much what I said.

If I get Map 1 sorted, then you get those bits for Data sorted (that I list in the top post), and deal with Map2/1 borders and cell naming, then there's nothing between us and a release. (Certainly nothing that takes more than five minutes' work to do, I'm sure) Am I not making sense?

Gez · Post by **Gez** » Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:32 pm

Bloodthirsty Crustacean wrote:No. Dunno why.

What about Wrye Mash? Right click->Copy to ESP, bam, you're done.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:33 pm

I still don't have Wrye Mash, and don't want the hassle of Python...

Post by **Haplo** » Sun Nov 09, 2008 5:12 pm

Python is pretty simple... just download it, run the .exe, and you're done.

For Map 1, could you cut off the bottom/southern-most row of cells, and post them in an .esp so I can continue to work on the border?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:05 pm

I will get on this tomorrow. Thanks Hap.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:45 pm

Here are those cells. I've left in the various _m1_ objects that elong to them, and their scripts. You will still possibly get a bunch of errors from those scripts missing objects, but they won't actually damage anything.

The purpose of leaving that stuff in is because I'm unsure what the remerging process will do, and this hopefully minimises chances of muck-ups.

In the file I work on, I'm leaving those cells in for now. If they need to go, I can do that on your word.

One of us, by the way, I think, should delete this random Dres guard and Skyrender who's shown up on the Map1/2 border out of nowhere. (TR_m1_Ravis Hlervu)

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 10, 2008 8:55 pm

Okay, and here's a completed, Map 2 ready Map 1 (includes southern cells, which may need to be cut out later, or whatever).

I have a horrible feeling things can only go more wrong from here, but hopefully there won't be any conflicts or what not.

As of now, it's just down to Hap fixing Map 2/1 borders, sticking that stuff in Data (and doling out Peterboy's faces to the relevant Map 2 people) and dealing with Map 2 named cells (and the 'Helnim' issue*), and we're ready to release, unless something unforseen by me arises! Woohoo.

* which I may have to deal with, but will take all of ten seconds to do.

Or someone else could do it, it's this simple:

1: Once wilderness cells are named properly, go to one of the Helnim generic topics (little advice, little secret, latest rumors, someone in particular, specific place, services).

2: Find the 'least filtered' entry for Helnim, which should have only a NotLocal | NoLore | = | 0, and possibly some variants of itself, each with different 'Random' checks.

3: To this piece of dialogue, and all its variants, apply the new filter "NotCell | Helnim Fields Region | = | 1".

4: Repeat for each of the abovementioned generic topics.

5: Speak to any NPC standing in a 'Helnim Fields Region' cell, and see if any topics were missed.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Nov 10, 2008 9:29 pm

Just so everyone's clear, the new and final version is up.

If Hap or whoever's downloaded the file, then this post may be deleted. (I just wanted to make sure my edit wasn't missed)

Post by **Haplo** » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:43 am

Did you remove all references to butterflies and change the filepaths for all the missing TFLongboat references?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:05 pm

Yep. All the stuff that I mentioned at the top of this thread should be completed.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:38 pm

Hold up. This version of Map 1 from Theo incorporates some kind of massive error, presumably introduced by his intended changes to the Firewatch Raiders quest.

Basically, the game instantly crashes on starting a new game/loading an old one, with an error relating to missing journal entry.

I have no idea quite what Theo's done to the quest, so I have two options:

1) Remove key aspects of the quest from the game to render it unaccessible in this release, in the hope it can be fixed for the MQ release.

2) Reinstate all the journal entries from the current public release version of Map 1, in the hope that Theo's changes didn't change too much in the quest.

Personally, I'm inclined to Number 1, as its the easiest option and doesn't require lengthy playtesting of the quest to work out what Theo's actually done.

Anyway, up to you guys.

I suppose it depends on how long you (Haplo) think it will take you to finish off Map border fixing and those various small other tasks.

EDIT: It appears Theo only got halfway through, and this file basicallly just has chunks of the quest missing. We're basically gonna have to go with option 1, so here's the file. This includes those world error fixes.

pacificmorrowind · Post by **pacificmorrowind** » Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:10 pm

In Theo fixing thread I reported that error and posted a fix. here it is again, since it obviously didn't get incorporated. It is dependent on Map1.esm but that is just Theo's file renamed so as to work with all the latest other stuff.
Pacific Morrowind.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:20 pm

Define 'fix'?

Half of the quest is missing here, including vital bits of dialogue. Unless you reinstated all that, it would be better to just use my file. Thanks for the help, though.

pacificmorrowind · Post by **pacificmorrowind** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:04 am

just looked at it again, and I had accidentally done further changes using that file instead of a new file, but what I had done was comment out the scripts so that the scripts were still there if it was later ressurected, however in the map 1 file of Theo's the dialogue was all gone already has far as I could see (at least the journals were). But that was just my solution to it and is fairly quick to redo without the extra junk and master in there, if requested I could do it in about 5 minutes.
Pacific Morrowind

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:45 am

No, don't worry. What my fix does is the same thing as yours, and it also prevents any confusion by removing all the key objects of the quest.

My file is the one that should be used.

It is important that the file from me a few posts up is used instead of the old one, the first Map1.esp I posted.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:49 pm

Which one?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 13, 2008 4:54 pm

As of just now, it is the only one I haven't deleted.

(And not the one posted by pacificmorrowind)

And, just to spare any ambiguity whatsoever, I have updated the first post to be an all-encompassing, definitive Map 2 checklist. As you finish tasks, Hap, you could take the liberty of 'redding them out'. Or whatever.

And just to clear things up even more, I'd just like to remind everyone that we are now 8 steps away from releasing Map 2 (unless some horridness strikes us down). 6 of those steps will take literally ten seconds to complete.

So really, we are only 2 away. And there was much rejoicing.

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:11 pm

Thanks, I'll red them out as I finish them(if I remember too). Gotta watch out for that horridity, it'll get you

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:24 pm

Crap crap crap!!!!

Another bloody file's gonna have to go up, as I have just found another huge error caused by Theo's changes with the Highway quest.

So so sorry for the repeated inconvenience. This error only showed up if I started a new game.

This will truly be the last file, I promise.

EDIT: If it's too much trouble to re-download the file, I can easily walk you through the changes you need to make. (They are very simple - just adding a few semi-colons to a couple of scripts)

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:46 pm

Bandwidth is not an issue for me.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:57 pm

Can someone quick load up Map 1 and see if the Sarvanni Molecrab Farm banner (TR_de_banner_Sarvanni) is used outside anywhere, or if it's only used outside?

EDIT - Nevermind, I checked.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 3:14 pm

Rilmas Athyrion does not have a unique head.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:51 pm

Oh yeah.

If you feel this noticably breaks the trend, then make him be TR_pb_de_head_15. Otherwise, he'll probably be okay.

(Though I think 15 might make him a little bit too old, and there aren't really any good alternative options - in my view I probably say leave him, but it's up to you guys - he's not a character I'm overly attached to)

EDIT: One last thing - you should check the 'playable' box on all the generic heads' Body Part info (that is, DE heads 12-16 and DE heads 'f' 2-4, as well as the WE heads).

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:55 pm

I'll get an updated TR_Data.esm up with playable generic heads once I finish the border fix. It's a hellish job. I'm at cell (31,7) now. See this map for details:

http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/?p=forum/showmap&map=2

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:17 pm

Whichever direction you're working in, that's some really good progress. (It would be especially good if you're working from east to west, because that would mean the worst bits (Bohdram) are out of the way)

Keep up the good work, man. We all appreciate it!

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:20 pm

Just an update WIP file, someone comment on the border please.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:16 am

The border is great, up to the Balrahn area, where it could do with a bit more 'blurring of the borders'. This is simple enough work, thanks to what you've done, that I'd be willing to do it myself (I have quite a bit of experience on this simple level of exterioring from my work on Map 2's inner borders)

There's also a couple of tricks that will need to be done before this can be remerged with Map 1 safely, involving some dialogue and other stuff. I should probably do this, too.

The only bits I can't do are removing the cell names of wilderness cells, and I'm unsure what to do about adding Map 1 dependancy/merging it/whatever. (Do we delete the bottom-most cells from Map 1? Do we need to do anything other than just make it dependant again?)

If I know the answers to those issues tonight, I can get work done on the borders tomorrow, and then hopefully we can have this ready for a weekend release. (This is pretty hopeful, it has to be said, but not impossible)

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 4:46 pm

I'll finish the border fixing, then take care of the cell names, then upload it. After that you can do your Helnim fix and any dialogue tricks (explain/elaborate?) you need to do, and upload it here. Then we can go from there. I just wanted some thoughts on anything I might have missed at any given spot along the border, or suggestions for the muck spore village area.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:03 pm

The border is good. If you're happy to keep going, I'll elaborate on my plans a bit more - some things I think need touching up a tad.

At the bit where the path from Rangirth Ancestral Tomb (Map 1) crosses south into Map 2, there's a bit of a 'cliff' at the join between two cells. It looks fine like that, but I think sticking some statics (rocks) and vertex shading on it would make it look more cliffy and cool.

Around the Baldrahn area, either change some bits of Map 1 into that deserty/grazelands style, or change some bits of the Map 2 area into the mountainy/green style of Map 1 (this would probably need to cover the entire area of Nchazdrumn) Also make sure that vertex shading style is uniform within a decent range of the border. There is also a bit where a river meets at the border, and has a weird looking 'bulge' in it where they were at different widths at the join. Make this bit have a uniform width, so that where the border is is less obvious to the naked eye/world map observer.

I would also consider moving a bit/downgrading the exterior of the Nchazdrumn ruin, just so that it doesn't 'out-landmark' the Boethian shrine, which I think is meant to be the big landmark here.

At the Daedric ruin (Map 1 side) with some Telvanni guards with quest IDs, slightly west of the Baldrahn area, make there be a path from Map 2 into that ruin. Theo changed it so that the ruin is a dead end approach from the south for some reason, that needs to be different. (Check the original PubRel Map 1 layout for an example of how it should have been)

With regards to dialogue tricks, due to me cocking up on the order of things (I shouldn't have made Map 2 dependant on Map 1 if that dependency was later to be removed), someone needs to clean out the (non-dialogue, just plain NPC references) references to any TR_m1_ NPC with 0 'count' placed in the world. These are fast travel NPCs. Before cleaning them, a note needs to be made of their AI FT settings, so that when Map 2 is once again dependent on Map 1, this can be reinstated (Map 2 FT NPCs also need to have their FT links to Map 1 put back in). Also, under the dialogue topic 'pilgrimages', once Map 1 is remerged/dependant, the entry marked as changed by Map 2 needs to be put in the correct order (this is simple enough, but hard to explain, so I'd better do it for simplicity's sake, if I'm gonna be doing the Helnim fix).

daedren · Post by **daedren** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 2:20 pm

Hey guys I really can't wait to see first beta of Antediluvian Secrets out!
I've been following this thread, as well as TR Updates (morrowind) thread, and I can almost smell the release! And it will be great for me, as I'm a Telvanni - this map will complete the Great House Telvanni lands in the mainland. I'm so excited!
I'm sure you are doing a great work, guys! I have joined Interior Modding team after this map's interiors were all finished, so I didn't contribute for anything, but I'm proud of my team!
I'm gonna have a single interior in map 3, but I hope to have more in the upcoming maps. We'll see!

Right now, I don't have much time, so in my free time I'm playing Bloodmoon mainquest (can you believe I had never done the mainquest of that expansion?) and I'm remembering many things from the game (after a relatively big absence). So, I'm getting up for the work again!

I'm sure AS will be great, as well as the other maps. I just wish I can be as good as possible with my own contribution.

Keep up with the good work!

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:04 pm

Updated TR_Data.esm. Heads are now playable, is the script fix implemented correctly?

Nanu · Post by **Nanu** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 3:11 pm

The BoT script that was provided will work, although the intel check on it is done a bit awkwardly. There is a check for a >= high value then an elseif >= low value. If the high value is true, then the low value fires as well, but since it's an elseif, it never gets processed. The better way to do that would have just been an 'else' instead of 'elseif >= lower value.'

The script will work and, to my knowledge, has been done for every spellbook and applied. I'm sure BC would know more, though.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Mon Nov 24, 2008 4:55 pm

Nanu Ra wrote:The BoT script that was provided will work, although the intel check on it is done a bit awkwardly. There is a check for a >= high value then an elseif >= low value. If the high value is true, then the low value fires as well, but since it's an elseif, it never gets processed. The better way to do that would have just been an 'else' instead of 'elseif >= lower value.'

From the previous incarnation of the scripts I assumed three situations were wanted:

1)The player was intelligent enough to learn the spell. (intelligence >= higher value)
2)The player wasn't intelligent enough to learn it, but could see it was there. (intelligence between higher value and lower value)
3) The player had no idea there was a spell to be learned. (intelligence below lower value)

Implementing the script in an 'if, else' format would not have allowed for the second possibility.

Apologies if I've misunderstood you.