Argonia

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:13 pm

I can see building Argonia being extremly boring, since there are no major cities and endless swamp.

FORGET WHAT I SAID!!!!

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:39 pm

evilgreebo · Post by **evilgreebo** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 2:39 pm

There's quite a few cities and just becuase its a swamp doesn't have to mean it empty of anything interesting. Here's a map from one of the old Eldar Scrolls game of Blackmarsh, not that it matter to much since we are heading to Skyrim next.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:57 pm

I was just mentioning the idea. But on the map on TES.com there were no cities. Whatever, we should be thinking about Morrowind now.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:54 pm

Err, that's what we do here - unless someone asks about a lore issure regarding another province. Or complains that it's too stupid to be built

Though we worry a bit about Skyrim too, since it will be opened soon. Like Evilgreebo said ...

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 5:15 pm

right we should worry more about closer areas ... but skyrim won't be opened till every single cell of morrowind is completed reviewed and passed

wererat · Post by **wererat** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 9:00 pm

argonia will be interesting to build. of course its a seemingly endless swamp but we get to build and add new statics, creatures, buildings, etc. there are towns in argonia and a few large ones also. and im sure there are plenty of small argonian encampments. we create a new culture and land.

but skyrim is next

Veet · Post by **Veet** » Sun Jan 04, 2004 10:21 pm

And just think of all the interesting things that could be done with the Argonian encampments there could be vilages floating on the water, hanging in the trees, subteranien...also argonians being amphibious could have settled in grotos and other such structures like giant beaver dams

Sounds like an interesting province to me especialy since its the one province that lore talks about least so we will have the most free hand with it.

Post by **Haplo** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:24 am

yeah, it WILL be fun to build, but I think we should have grass there as well, not just marsh and swamp, because where there is a bog, there's green grass nearby...

here's a process of how forests are made!!! (if you want to read it, :O *yawn* )

First, glaciers go past a field or something and smooth out the bedrock underneath it, and tearing up any gravel or soot or anything else that might be in it's path.

The rocks start forming again on the bedrock, and after years and years, lichens(not liches) form on the rocks, then die and decompose into soil, and more and bigger lichens come and die and decompose and make more soil, etc. etc.

After about 20 llfecycles of lichens and their decomposition state later, we now have plenty of rich soil, that is, plenty for a few ferns, which die and decompose and make more soil

After about 10 lifecycles(and so on and so forth) later, a spring is formed by water being gushered out by a mountain spring somewhere, and flowers and moss and bushes form everywhere in about 10 years, and then;

100 years later( lifecycles is starting to bore me), the first sprigs and flatroot trees grow, and...

50 years later, pines and oaks have enough soil and other stuff and water to grow, and...(hehehe)

10 years later, you have a forest of small and tiny and minute and miniscule and itty-bitty and teensy-weensy and short(you get the point) trees are now living in your backyard(yes, I took the liberty of living 500 some odd years studying trees...so your welcome)

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:54 am

Something tells me that interiors for Argonia are going to be hell

. BTW, this is my 200th post.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 6:14 am

What Veet said.

For all we know that map of Argonia only lists above ground cities - the ones Imperials would notice. The secretive Argonians could have extensive cities built out of sight of foreigners' prying eyes.

sterio · Post by **sterio** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 10:32 am

Originally posted by Sniper4
Something tells me that interiors for Argonia are going to be hell . BTW, this is my 200th post.

Not at all! They'll be... a challange! I think it'll be quite fun to do something so completely different...

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:20 am

Actually, being a southern part, I think Argonia will be more like the Everglades, maybe mixed with grassy wetlands, ancient, half-overgrown cities, full of weird plants, creatures ect - like in Vietnam. Hey, it will be A LOT like Vietnam - at least if you're an imperial ... though Dagobah might kick in too, for all these weird predators.

To sum it up, Argonia will be a crisscross between the Everglades, Vietnam and Dagobah. And you call this boring?? sheesh.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:15 pm

If Argonians are supposed to be very good swimmers and good under water, maybe some buildings could be underwater. If this is against lore, then don't do it, but I think it would be neat to have great lighted cities under water. We could have ones above water, but I just thought it would look a lot more cool. Like I said, if this is so much against lore, than it shouldn't be done.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:54 pm

Yep, underwater cities will be there. Definitly. It'S just not sure wether they will be populated by Dreugh or Agonians ...

Shadow · Post by **Shadow** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 11:00 pm

doing argonia should be awesome
about what promotheus said about opening skyrim. will it be opened when everything is totally done, polished, etc (with NPC's, quests, etc.) or just exteriors and interiors or whatever

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:55 pm

I mean spectacular underwater cities with light and...bloby things. You know, like Jar Jar Bink's Race's City in Star Wars. It could be buildings similar to bubbles with metal support. Also, the interiors would be translucent with an underwater view. I take back what I said at the beginning of the post about Argonia being boring.

ashlander · Post by **ashlander** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:11 am

you couldnt make an interior view an exterior(or itd be really hard) because a interior is a totally seperate universe linked only by and teleportation device(doors mages etc) im off to work on me town.

sterio · Post by **sterio** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 12:28 am

However, you could, technically (I don't like the idea, but it's possible) make a semi-transparent static that would be the "exterior" of a house, but also the "interior". So the Interior would simply be an exterior, seperated from the rest of the exterior only by a static. But as I said, I don't think that is a good idea, even though it might look good. It also would not be very Argonian-ish, even though we know little of their architecture, I doubt that is it. And I doubt even more that Dreugh would build like that!

wererat · Post by **wererat** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 2:07 am

i dont really think the argonians would have splendid underwater cities. sure they can spend time underwater with there natural enhancement (water breather or whatever its called) but could they actually survive there? they are reptiles and not amphibians. even if they were they would need to go on land for a period amount of time like all other ones. and the idea with the domes filled with air and stuff i think would be a bit past the argonians technology.
the same thing with the dreugh and the domes. but the dreugh could have underwater cities because the can live underwater.
so expect underwater cities but not splendid ones with the 'blobby things'

oh and post 300 . finally

Thalog Son of Darius · Wed Jan 14, 2004 1:49 am

First of all it isnt called argonia. The region is called the black marsh. Also dont assume there arent cities. The Black Marsh cannot be lived in by anything but argonians, if some other race were to come and live there would have to be raised cities or all non-argonians would die there. And I have seen info on small black marsh villages but I have never heard any extensive info. If there isnt we will make some anyway

RaJevir · Post by **RaJevir** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:46 am

Argonia is the elven name, Black Marsh is what the Empire calls it. These names may be used interchangeable.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Thu Jan 15, 2004 9:07 pm

Ok ok, I said I take back what I said.

I am thinking of stuff for Argonian underwater architecture. I want to try to make big, blob-like bubbles held together by a metal frame floating in the water, similar to the Gungan city in Star Wars, Episode 1. What would really be neat is if I can make inside wall animation that you can see outside. This will be hard, but if I can find some way to make a static that shows a scene, like the sky in Mournhold.

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:57 am

well we have rigt a piece of Argonia in Morrowind that we should really worry about we need that some willing modders so... tehhe team of modders to create some plant and tree statics like jungle ones that can be used for this place

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:04 am

As a enjoyer of swamp and bayou life, Id like to think Black Marsh is gonna be one of the best provinces to work on, heres my defense

firstly, it will really let the artistic meshers flex there muscles, conceptually, also everything will look alot more bionic instead of stone and brick.

secondly, all sorts of openess for new thoughts and ideas, since Black Marsh, it can be said, is the least understood and talked about province of the empire, atleast I have found.

lastly, it will for us to create a better tree, that uses less polys but gives extreme canopy, I have been tinkering with this, and I feel I can get a thick canopy out of a mesh with only 700 polys, meaning we could probably use 30 or so in a thick swamp area, add a few rocks, some under brush of 100 polys each, and we got some massive junglage, and I think the effect of a really thick canopy will look insanely good in game play if done right

prometheus · Post by **prometheus** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:08 am

what about little animated branches to give some wind moove would that increase the poli count?

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 3:11 am

it doesnt increase the polys
Im not sure if it will slow up stuff, cause it comes as part of the NIF

It will definetly make the NIF larger, hence making the total project larger in size if it were used frequently, but Im sure using some swaying branches here and there wouldnt hurt much

good idea by the way
and its not difficult to do by any means

Garret Strife · Post by **Garret Strife** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 7:29 pm

Originally posted by Legolas55
I can see building Argonia being extremly boring, since there are no major cities and endless swamp.

maybe you should check out this site

[url]http://argonia.angryporcupine.org/forum/forum.html[/url]

its more than swamps there's also forts

Ethereal · Post by **Ethereal** » Sat Mar 13, 2004 9:25 pm

Garret Strife wrote:
[url]http://argonia.angryporcupine.org/forum/forum.html[/url]

I am glad you mentioned this. The folks at Angry Porcupine are working on an ambitious TC that occurs during the Second Era.

It might be a good idea to share ideas and possibly creations too.

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 6:50 pm

Hey all....i hate to get too excited about Black Marsh before we finish up with morrowind...but i just have to say that there is a great bit of techinicality to the province as several things are unique to the place....ideas as follows

-Corpses of Mer during the war for BM
-Hist????
-Plants (Dragon's-Tongue,Somnalius Fern
-Abandonded Cities (due to the Flu)
-Werecrocodiiles

-Forts (Limoth,Gideon)
-The Kothringi tribes
-Estates,boats,passes, waterways....
And the list goes on

Cant wait...
-BM

Skurvy · Post by **Skurvy** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:18 pm

The kothringi tribesmen are all extinct, as are most of the other natives of Black Marsh - only the Argonians in their various forms survive

Skurvy

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 9:30 pm

My mistake....the Kothringi were wiped out...the Flu was in 2E 560, which killed off the kothringi....evidence comes in the form of the last record of the Kothringi was in the 2920 series, Morning Star (the assasin Zuuk)...which would have been exactly 560 years before the flu

Thanks for the catch

-BM

Ethereal · Post by **Ethereal** » Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:23 pm

Yes, the Kothringi and Orma tribes are gone, and the others as well. But that doesn't mean that they didn't leave behind traces of their existence.

In the book 2920, a long large berm (not unlike portions of the Great Wall of China) is mentioned as having been built (for unknown reasons) by unknown tribes that were already forgotten.

There isn't any reason why archeology can't be important in Black Marsh. There is no telling what might be found among the ruins of a long dead people

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:14 am

I agree completely...the archaeological remains of the old tribes as well as the pre-flu general populous must be implemented and wil be a huge source of adventure to the player who tries to explore them...i see them as ancient mayan/aztec/incan structures probably because thier general surroundings (forest/swamp) are so similar...

Just a thought
-BM

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:43 am

I like the style of the ruins of Angkhor Wat in Cambodia. They are in swamp land with huge trees both pushing them apart and binding them together it is an incredible sight. It is also less familiar than the typical pyramid city of the south american cultures. However details such as Olmec style heads would be cool, statuary was greatly underused in Morrowind,it ups the poly count but really adds to atmosphere.

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:37 am

Skurvy wrote:The kothringi tribesmen are all extinct, as are most of the other natives of Black Marsh - only the Argonians in their various forms survive

Skurvy

The Kothringi of Black Marsh were supposed to be humans. The flu wiped out the native humans of Black Marsh, the Kothringi among them.

BUT, the Kothringi in 2920 is described as reptilian -- I mean, how many humans do you know have "silver, reflective skin"?

Ethereal · Post by **Ethereal** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 12:59 pm

Earl, I think that the extinct human tribes of Black Marsh are just as exotic as the present day lizard race.

Consider the Orma tribe:

she noticed through a crease in the rags that the old woman had no eyes at all. She was like one of those Orma tribesmen Rijja had heard about, but never met. Born without eyes, they were masters of their other senses.

This is mentioned in the book 2920, Second Seed

Earl · Post by **Earl** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:57 am

No eyes is one thing. People can be eyeless. Reflective skin seems less possible as a human trait.

"I know exactly what to do," he said simply. He seemed to smile, but the
Empress realized that it was only her own face reflected in his silvery skin.
She was smiling, and she didn't even realize it.

Zuuk entered the chamber. His metallic skin, though exposed only at his face
and hands, caught the light of the fireplace and the lightning of the stormy
night from the window.

"Face" might be a human tell. But I don't know if they'd have used a different word for a reptile.

Arthmodeus · Post by **Arthmodeus** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:59 am

I am thinking of stuff for Argonian underwater architecture. I want to try to make big, blob-like bubbles held together by a metal frame floating in the water, similar to the Gungan city in Star Wars, Episode 1. What would really be neat is if I can make inside wall animation that you can see outside. This will be hard, but if I can find some way to make a static that shows a scene, like the sky in Mournhold.

I heard from some argonian ingame near Vivec that there was a Hist tree in each town and when an Argonian comes of age, he/she performs some ritual thingie near the Hist tree. So it would be impossible to stick a tree underwater and expect it to survive. And Argonians dont have much access to metal if they live in a swamp.

Assassinace · Post by **Assassinace** » Fri Jul 09, 2004 2:11 pm

Trees can have thier trunks under water and the rest of them above. And don't forget Hist trees are supposedly huge.

Tamriel Rebuilt

Argonia

Argonia

argonian life isnt boring

not sure

Ideas....

True...