On Oblivion and Hammerfell (Read This)

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:31 am

The administration has been in discussion for a while now about TR's Oblivion project, Hammerfell. It's our feeling that the project has lost most of the steam it once had, and that it is unfair to both the Oblivion project and the Morrowind project if we keep going with things the way they currently are. We are strongly considering a permanent hiatus on the Oblivion project. We would like to hear your opinions on the matter, because you, as TR modders, are obviously very important to the project.

Hemitheon · Post by **Hemitheon** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:46 am

Is it possible to halt all Oblivion work outside of the Goldmoor, from concept art to modeling, focusing entirely on one region at a time?

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:52 am

the primary problem we've found is the lack of modeling. We don't even have everything we need for Goldmoor, and our modeling is essentially at a stand still. What holds modeling up is the quality required. Casual modelers can make things on MW's quality level, while OB requires almost professional level skill. While people with this skill level come up occasionally, they are by far in the minority and not numerous enough to make modeling an entire province viable. (or even a single region as we have found out over the years.)

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:56 am

This is not the thread i wanted to see... I've had a fear that i would for some time now, but disapointing all the same. The whole lack of capable modelers IS the crux of the problem as far as i can see, (it is certainly why i have been unable to finish my 8-6 exterior claim) and while i have offered to try to learn (i have nifscope and blender already, just need to know if there are any other -free- programs i should have, and of course, a suitable starting point for a complete noob like myself), i suspect that that offer wont produce the required results (not soon anyway).

So, as much as it pains me to say it, i agree that some sort of "pause" is needed (that or some sort of major advertising campaign).

I feel compeled to note that this doesn't mean i WANT to or anything, i dont, i just see little choice given the current situation/resorces.

PS: Thrig, your new avitar scares me and i dont know why...

JD

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:06 am

Permanent hiatus doesn't mean pause, it means stop. Simply pausing would remove what little momentum we have.

OT: I'm not sure why someone would be scared of my avatar.

jonarus_drakus · Post by **jonarus_drakus** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 7:21 am

I know, i was just try to word it a little more 'hopefully'.

Ultimately, while i understand and (to a degree) even agree with the reasoning, it would be a great shame to completely abandon such a great idea. All the work we have done thus-far would be wasted, and NOBODY would want that.

Another thought just entered my (admitadly deranged, overly paranoid) mind. If we quit at this, we could be sending the message that we *might* quit all together (as in everything, not just hammerfell). While anyone with half a mind knows such isn't true, it may scare off those that would help create TR (or even just download and play it). Like i said, paranoid...

It comes down to this, although i understand why it might be easier to stop, its still 1 vote for 'keep going' from me.

JD

PS: Thrig, i remember why now, it because it reminds me of an atempted murder i once witnessed (seriously see some crazy/scary stuff when your a pizza delivery driver).

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:19 am

As a purely MW side contributor (and not much of that of late), I wouldn't want to say either way, but I will say that if work does cease, it might be worth a final drive to release something, even if it's just a resource pack. After all, a huge amount of work has been done, so it shouldn't all just go to waste.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 4:40 pm

As much as I wouldnt want the hammerfell project to end, I suppose it is better than all the oblivion modders sitting around doing nothing but showcase reviewing. So I shall sit on the fence on this one.

If this does go through and hammerfell is abandoned what will happen to all of us noobs who are bored with/cannot mod/ do not like morrowind? The obvious answer that springs to my mind is that we will have to leave, will that be so?

BTW I love morrowind so dont jump on my ass for the above question. But I know Morrowind is a "marmite" game.

Obagovo · Post by **Obagovo** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:07 pm

I really don't like the idea of axing Hammerfell as that project got me into TR and it would a shame to stop because of lack of modelers. However, if the majority of modders are for it, then at least give it one good last chance (go on a recruiting drive like J_D suggested).

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:08 pm

Being promoted to mod for one game gives you the rights to mod for the other one, as far as I'm aware, the CS for both is quite similar, and Morrowind poses less problems to modders than Oblivion anyway.

If Morrowind isn't to your taste, then TR probably isn't your style either, I'm pretty sure all of our committed, productive members favour it, and Hammerfell seemed to be trying to steer the game towards the more non-generic MW style.

I would have liked to have done some HF claims just to say I had, but I'm not entirely surprised to see this coming. We should probably release our assets for HF so if someone else wants to try and do it, they can. Alternatively, we could hang onto it and see if TESV has a less broken game engine?

Also, Marmite is delicious.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:24 pm

Yeah as I said dont get me wrong I love marmite-- i mean morrowind. But im just more comfortable in the obliv CS. But if thats the way it rolls then ill gladly take some MW claims.

Myzel · Post by **Myzel** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:03 pm

Obagovo wrote:I really don't like the idea of axing Hammerfell as that project got me into TR and it would a shame to stop because of lack of modelers. However, if the majority of modders are for it, then at least give it one good last chance (go on a recruiting drive like J_D suggested).

I hate it as much as you do for the same reasons. But, as the Core discussion made me realize, the amount of high quality models we will need is almost inconceivable. I'm afraid a recruiting offensive can't possibly yield the amount of dedicated modelers we will need to make Hammerfell a success.

Alternatively, we could hang onto it and see if TESV has a less broken game engine?

Something I was also made to realize in the Core discussion:
Abandoning the Hammerfell project automatically means admitting that there will be no further large TR projects for future TES games. I can't imagine Bethsoft releasing anything other than a complete province. So the lucky situation where we have all the models we need to work with (like is the case with Morrowind) probably won't happen anymore.
If Bethsoft does release a partial province, well, that's a different story.

Nemon · Post by **Nemon** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:18 pm

It took me forever making the few Rihad claims to what they are today; desperately in need of cleansing. Also I spent way too much time just fixing stupid bugs that popped up from nowhere, and seeing how difficult proper landscape modding was I soon realized that Goldmoor would be the only thing we could hope for.

Morrowind looks awesome in its own way, the easiness of modding compared to Oblivion is stunning, that's my opinion having made a lot of exeriors for all kinds of maps of the Morrowind province.

And with the MGE looking awesomer and awesomer by every release, I actually see the Morrowind project as awesomer than the Oblivion counterpart.

gro-Dhal · Post by **gro-Dhal** » Tue Dec 01, 2009 8:40 pm

The creativity that's gone into Hammerfell has been brilliant, but I don't see how it can all translate into a worthy game given the limitations of Oblivion's engine and the difficulties of modding it.

Gotta be honest, if we were to make another province i'd rather see it done with the Morrowind CS. But that's not gonna happen either, sadly.

I don't think TR should give up on the Oblivion side of things entirely, though, simply because there are a core of people who i'm sure would prefer to mod for that game and who could make something great. A smaller-scale project like the partial Hammerfell that was mentioned earlier. Or Orsinium maybe (I can dream...).

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:36 pm

FelixAmherst wrote: If this does go through and hammerfell is abandoned what will happen to all of us noobs who are bored with/cannot mod/ do not like morrowind? The obvious answer that springs to my mind is that we will have to leave, will that be so?

we wont be kicking anyone if we drop the project. you'll be welcome to stick around and contribute ideas, opinions, or actual claims if you ever feel like it.

Right now, this is what we have decided:
-the hammerfell project at TR is discontinued
-it is continued, in a more limited scale, under my supervision.
-the main goal of this project is the release of goldmoor, focusing mostly on fixing the errors that still persist in the main file (this includes modeling and model revision, which i am capable of doing.)
-if you are interested in contributing, send me a PM or email me at ladynerevar@gmail.com. Gmail addresses are preferred (as i make use of Google Docs), include what you want to do in the project.
-additional information will be sent to those interested personally.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:57 pm

-if you are interested in contributing...

So, just for clarification, you say that you plan to fix all the errors. Does this mean models or do you still want Interiors and shit?

Also, when will this info go public and will we stop showcases for OB? Im probably jumping the gun on this but I just like to know.

Anyway thanks for the update LN

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 5:14 pm

it depends on who wants to help. if i have someone who wants to do interiors i will do interiors, if not, i might only do a couple really important ones.

we will go public when this issue is completely settled. there are still things to discuss and decide.

you can stop reviewing showcases now, just post a message saying that "oblivion reviewing is on hold while we decide some stuff, sorry." or link me to the threads and i'll do it myself.

FelixAmherst · Post by **FelixAmherst** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 7:41 pm

Okey Dokey thanks LN. It is a shame but if thats the way it is decided... Ill need to fire up the old morrowind CS and give it a once over. God its been so long since I played that game. Even longer since i attempted to Mod it.

Well i may as well start in a few showcases that are waiting... tis a sad time me hearties. A sad time.

Just out of interest, how much of goldmoor is complete, if any?

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:12 pm

It's... sad. Sad that it needed to come like this.

On the other hand, maybe its also a relief. Since you don't need to worry about all that huge amount of work and the lacking sources anymore.

Lady Nerevar · Post by **Lady Nerevar** » Wed Dec 02, 2009 8:25 pm

FelixAmherst wrote:
Just out of interest, how much of goldmoor is complete, if any?

most of the region proper is done, just needs merging and fixing.

Post by **Swiftoak** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:44 am

Good idea.

I think it will allow us to be more dedicated to the Morrowind side of things.

Re-committing our resources perhaps?

Post by **Haplo** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 5:44 am

I'd say "we're not downsizing, we're rightsizing" but that would just be mean.

Kiteflyer61 · Post by **Kiteflyer61** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:19 am

I only work on the morrowind side of the project (I've never even opened the oblivion CS) but I think it will help the speed of release for the rest of the morrowind side of the project. I'd like to see the OB resources either released or stored for later use though. It would be an awful waste to just trash them.

MMMowSkwoz · Post by **MMMowSkwoz** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:57 am

Haplo wrote:I'd say "we're not downsizing, we're rightsizing" but that would just be mean.

I actually laughed out loud. My company is downsizing at the moment, but they're insisting it's a "strategic reorganisation" (just one that looks suspiciously like downsizing).

How long before we make the announcement?

Beave · Post by **Beave** » Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:36 pm

I think we should at least try to release what we have so far, at least as much as can be quested and what-not into a worthy release (in relative terms).

If the Oblivion side is cut, which probably means no future for TR after Morrowind, at least we could all then migrate to Realms of Renth

. Now that would be interesting.

Thrignar Fraxix · Post by **Thrignar Fraxix** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 4:18 am

Special Message because of Jonarus:

Don't fucking talk about this outside of this thread/private tavern. The information in this thread is meant for modders only, hence its location. An announcement will be made soon enough by the administration so until then don't talk about this outside of this thread

Not so special message to Beave:
Fuck Reneth (Renth? regardless, fuck it)

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Fri Dec 04, 2009 7:57 pm

It's sad to see that TR's vision for Hammerfell won't be completely realized (and I don't even have Oblivion).

Good luck with Goldmoor lady N

fstony · Post by **fstony** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:26 pm

Although you've already reached a decision, here's a little more support. It's ok with me that Hammerfell stops. I won't be modding Morrowind, but I'm not spending much time on TR anyway. My personal concern is Map 9, which is nearly finished. Even though it's rather pointless without Hammerfell, we really do have a shot at finishing it, and I think we should.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:37 pm

Lady N is continuing with Hammerfell, everything TR has done with Oblivion except for Stirk, which is already released, is now under her supervision. If you want to help further, send her a pm or email.

Map 9 is definitely being used.

David House · Post by **David House** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:37 pm

Mmm, well, just when I got my computer running Oblivion to, oh well. Could we not go back and finish it once Morrowind is complete?

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:40 pm

Dude, Hammerfell is going ahead, headed by one of the TR admins, no less. It just isn't going to be hosted on this website. There would be no point in doing it for a second time with merely a name change between them.