Worsas' Creatures <internal thread>

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:29 pm

As there were people from outside grabbing my files and using them without asking and such, I'll be posting my files here in the future.

Here's the first file for a test. The values of the creature are only test-values and don't refer to wish-values. There is no reference of the creature in the plugin. So you need to place it by the console.

The Nif-Files need to be placed into a folder named 'own' within the meshes-directory. You'll probably need to make this folder yourself, shame on me.

The DDS-File just goes into the Textures-folder, as usual.

Aeven · Post by **Aeven** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:47 pm

These animations look really good and smooth! Very nicely done. The textures are also good. Very much Morrowind, and not too low a resolution but not big either.

Do you plan on creating a female version of this, or perhaps some variation (such as the netches)

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:31 pm

I haven't planned anything as to the diversification of this creature yet.

If there is a good and commonly accepted conception for a female version of this creature, it will not be out of question to have also a female version.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:19 pm

A headplague of my creature. Intended as a replacer for the former swamp-troll headplague.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:17 pm

Triple post, sorry.

Here's the modified creature according to the suggestions made by Haplo and Bloodthirsty Crustacean (texture-file changed as well). I've hurried up to get these fixings done because I need to take more care for my so-called real life in the coming weeks and I won't be able to work on this any more.

That's all so far.
Thankyou again for your positive feedback.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:58 am

Can we... maybe... keep the Swamp troll in data if this replaces it? That thing's hilarious

(no offence to whoever made it of course

)

What I mean is, remove it from in-game but keep it in the TR_Data files.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:55 am

No, it`s an abomination. Extract it from the .bsa if you want, but the old swamp troll has no place anywhere near TR files.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:31 pm

Okay, had a look at your latest file Worsas, it's absolutely perfect. The improvement on the chest area is really really great. Looks a lot better now.

If you want, you can leave the creature at this level and move on, I'd guess.

I do however have one slightly wider 'suggestion' for this creature, which I think would make it fit in a bit more with the vanilla Morrowind creature selection. Your creature is absolutely perfect in its own style (and the mesh and animation are perfect for Morowind) though, so if you don't want to do this, it's your call.

The only thing is that compared to other Morrowind creatures, your texture work focuses a lot on shading and darkness, whereas Morrowind textures tend to focus on highlights. If you compare your creature in-game to comparable 'reptilian' textures, like the Durzog (durzog_war), Goblin (goblin_grunt), Daedroth and Clannfear, there is an immediately noticable visual difference between yours and the others. When you look at them individually, you probably wouldn't care because like I say your creature has its own artistic style that looks just fine, but when taken together, yours is the 'odd one out'.

If you could rework the texture so that rather than focussing on the shade and dark, it emphasises the lighter elements, it would add that final extra 'Morrowind' touch of perfection to this already very excellent creature. The best examples of textures to look at are the Durzog and Daedroth (the latter particularly maintains a very dark palette, but keeps in with the 'highlights, not shading' Morrowind style).

Anyway, it's your call. Personally I would really appreciate this final touch, but it's up to you whether you want to move on or not.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:46 pm

Yes, I believe I know what you're referring to.
The problem I'm seeing still is that I don't know so right, where I should place such highlights.

The creature doesn't have as obvious muscles as many vanilla creatures have. Perhaps it might be a possibility just to change the overall color-contrast and lightness which would also result in stronger highlights.

I tend to fear that I'm going to destroy things that look okay, if I'm trying to improve them even more.

However, I think experimenting with it a bit more can't hurt. And ultimately the creature really should look in place also together with creatures that already are there.

I'd also be curious to hear if there is already an idea or even consensus about how this creature is going to be embedded into the game world and the lore. Nobody apart from Kiteflyer has anything said about it.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:19 pm

I agree that tweaking this texture would probably do more harm than good. I think if we want to change things properly, you might have to start a new texture, whilst keeping this one as a base point that we can always revert to if you decide you can't get it looking right. As I say, this present creature is still far better than anything else TR has produced.

It might be necessary to change the colour palette here, so that more 'pastel'/'chalky' colours are used, and less 'grimy' ones. Looking at the above-named creatures, their colours all seem to come from 'grey hightlighted towards white', wheras your colours all look like they have come from 'brown shaded towards black'.

In terms of where to highlight, if I compare the Daedroth's back to your guy's back, the shape is nearly identical, but the Daedroth has more delineated colours, and spots of highlighting, wheras yours focuses more on the detail of the texture. Same with the legs. Perhaps sacrificing some texture detail in return for more basic 'painting' would be helpful?

As I'm not really a texturing expert, I cannot offer you more advice than these basic observations. The main idea I'm getting is to create a more 'pastel' pallette with the same basic colourscheme as the current guy, tone down the shading on the dark parts, and replace it with lighter colours on 'raised areas'.

Your present texture looks very realistic and gritty, whilst something like the Daedroth looks more like a painting with its effectively unrealistic highlighting. So maybe come at it more from that kind of angle?

I don't know how helpful any of that is. As before, I leave it in your capable hands, and if you decide it's too much work, I'm alright with leaving the creature as is. But it would be nice to get it fitting in more if possible.

In terms of game world and lore, there is very little that is, or really needs to be, established about this creature. Much can be left to mystery.

I remain of the opinion that "as 'Grahl' is to ice troll, 'ThisThing' is to swamp troll". It is resident only in the Argon Jungle, and is a dangerous predator, probably with low-level sentience. It is sneaky enough to be still considered a rare sight. In terms of game mechanics, it could give out either Troll Fat or if people really don't like the idea of that, I'd say Teeth would make a good ingredient. In terms of name I don't know. Grahl is fairly Nordic, so 'ThisThing' could perhaps be somewhat Argonian. But Argonian is an obscure language, so it might have an Imperial name, or a Dunmer one.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:14 pm

I don't know, I quite want a break. I appreciate your interest in this, but now

the time's slipping through my hands and I've sat too long in front of this stupid monitor.

Well, I have no objections against a new texture. Mine is in fact not that much in line with the ones you see otherwise in Morrowind. On the other hand I have worked and suffered too long getting this texture, certainly the most time-consuming part of this composition, done.

It's like killing your own child, you know?

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:26 pm

I understand.

There's absolutely no pressure to get this done right now: the creature works fine, and apart from the plaque won't be seen for a while. So taking a break from this creature, or TR work in general, is completely fine. Just don't take one of those 'breaks' from TR that ends up going on forever, because it would be sad to lose you. Your help to this project has been extremely useful, and you're a solid guy to work with.

It would be great to have you revisit this in a couple of months time/whenever you feel ready, if you felt up to it.

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:40 am

If you like, upload the texture file and I'll take a look at it nearer the end of the month.

If I can get the texture shape I could make an alternative for you to play around with later on.

Anyway keep up the good work.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:21 am

The texture-file is already uploaded above, if this is what you mean. There was a gimp-file with several layers some time ago but that one is outdated.

In order to get your texture looking right on the creature, I think you also should have a template of the actual UV-mapping cause otherwise you might end up detailling areas of the texture that aren't used at all.

Actually I shouldn't sit here, right now. Need to prepare for school actually, but I'll make a template for you right now and then I'll be off.

@BC: Not planning to stay away forever. I'll even keep doing minor things but apart from this I shouldn't tackle things anymore. Otherwise it's going to have an impact on my school activity.

And I also need to relax a bit.

Edit: Here's the template.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 1:25 pm

I have exchanged a few pms with Samir yesterday. He told me you had spoken about this creature and said there was still stuff missing, but you were prepared to take it into TR-Data otherwise.

The texture-matter aside, I have noticed one actual animation-bug that still persists at the current version of the creature: In one of the death-anims, the creature gets sunk into the ground. This can be solved quite easily and i will take care of it in the coming days when i get back to my own pc.

The other thing that needs to be made up are the creature-sounds. The moan-sound needs to be some sort of sniffling as I make the creature playing its moan-sound while sniffling around in its idle-animations. I'm sure a free sniffle-sound can be found or even made quite easily.

The roar- and the scream-sounds just need to be some fitting roars, perhaps they could even be sounds that we already have. If you want me to, I will try to collect fitting sounds for it.

As for the texture, I would like to hear how you estimate the urgency of another texture made for this creature. It seemed that some people were for keeping the old one, whereas, as you see, BC has suggested to make one that blends in better with the textures of morrowinds standard-critters.

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:55 pm

I personally like it and want to see it in data for use as it is a very nice creature and we certainly don't have any other similarly awesome creatures populating our lands. This along with the Vermai and stuff you and Nalin are collaborating on will add some much needed diversity to the TR lands.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:59 am

If you had the time to take another go at the texture, I think it would certainly be a good thing.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:10 am

Alright, I will give it a go.

Nalin · Post by **Nalin** » Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:21 pm

Wasn't the main issue with the texture related to the seam running down the chest and belly of it? I remember the texture looking fine - but "fixing" that section would be the only thing I'd change with it as the rest looks fine.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:21 am

Read my posts a few up from way back. The texture is very clearly distinct in its style from everything else in Morrowind, whilst of individually fine quality. The issue with the chest was fixed long ago.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:24 pm

First approach.
Let me know what you think of it.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/troll_side.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/troll_back.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/troll_above.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/troll_front.jpg

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:37 pm

Looks good to me, looks to blend in with the same sort of colors we see throughout Morrowind, we'll see what BC thinks though.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:48 pm

Btw. the stretched texture on the legs is being dealt with right now.

Katze · Post by **Katze** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:05 pm

The new colours are excellent! We really need to get this in TR_Data to replace the atrocious old one as soon as possible.

Praedator · Post by **Praedator** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:12 pm

I really like it, swampy

Scamp · Post by **Scamp** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:01 pm

excellent work

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:11 pm

Very good, this absolutely fixes all the fitting in issues from last time, perfect!

Because I always have thoughts, would it be possible to make the eyes look more distinct from the front, to provide a focus point for the player? At present they're nearly invisible at a distance, but they were always one of my favourite parts of the texture. If they could be emphasised, that'd be great.

But obviously, if you're tired of making changes, feel free to decline.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:26 pm

I had really expected you would send me back to work

No problem, fixing the eyes is a matter of some seconds. And I dont mind doing tweakings as long as they sound doable to me.

Is this more like it?
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/trolleye.jpg

Edit: A closer screen
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/trolleye2.jpg

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:06 pm

Much more noticeable now, I can't wait to bash some of these on the mainland.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:16 am

Yep, much nicer. I wonder if it might look better in yellow rather than red, for greater contrast with the green skin?

RelinQ · Post by **RelinQ** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Worsas,

That creature looks amazing, and the texture really suits.

Cant wait to see that in the game.

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 pm

It's not green. It's bronce, dude!

This is how he looks with his eyes yellow:
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g23/Worsas/yelloweye.jpg

Kiteflyer61 · Post by **Kiteflyer61** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 pm

I'm truly happy to see this make it to data. It's a magnificent addition to the TR creatures and an equally impressive piece of work. Great job Worsas! I'm looking forward to getting the crap scared out of me the first time one of these jumps out from behind a tree. They'll be very hard to see from a distance with that coloring.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:48 pm

@ Worsas, aha, my mistake.

Yep, go for yellow eyes. looks great. If you upload a file (and an updated 'head on plaque mesh' too?) then we can get this into Data (or at least pester Haplo with the intent of doing so).

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:22 pm

If someone liked to test this creature, it would be appreciated a lot:

This plugin places two creatures with low combat-values at Seyda Neen.

I have noticed the following things
-the creature needs its speed set quite low (7 at the most). Otherwise its running will look and sound a bit wacky. The creature in the plugin has its speed set to 6. It's still not slow when it runs.
-it will imo be better not to scale the creature down, cause then it will only hit your legs (has come about by coincidence, really

).

Right now it has attached the ogre sounds to it. I'm still looking for suiting sounds.

SamirA · Post by **SamirA** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:41 pm

I looked this guy over and he seems fine in game, a quite imposing creature to come across. Animations look good and feels like any other creature in Morrowind and the texture fit perfectly. Clearly will need to drop something other than Kwama eggs but as far as the model and anims go in game it feels natural and looks good.

Why · Post by **Why** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:42 pm

That creature, especially with the new texture, looks like it fits right into the game. Slightly offtopic, but it's also great to see you're still around occasionally.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:08 pm

Even if he just attacks legs, a size decrease is a must - otherwise he's about 3x the size of a regular creature/person!

0.60 is daedroth sized, 0.70 is imposingly large.

And yeah, checked this out in the CS and it's perfect, couldn't be better!

(Also serious kudos for the animations - i've never seen a modded creature animated anywhere near this standard. Amazing)

Worsas · Post by **Worsas** » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:20 pm

Thanks for your praise, folks.

I'm really gaping at this thread lately.

Even if he just attacks legs, a size decrease is a must

No offense, but meh.
I hate the thought of this guy being downscaled. If you insist, i will do it though. For me it's a rare giant dwelling the argonian jungle. A deeply growling, large and mighty beast.

I don't mind your instructions/suggestions BC, but this one is breaking my heart.

Edit: + it will move its legs even faster when downscaled.

Bloodthirsty Crustacean · Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:24 pm

The CS can do it itself, you needn't do anything. But if you put the creature next to any other in game creature or NPC, you'll see what I mean. Just in terms of proportions, he is 'built' three times bigger than anything else. And in terms of physical size, the player in first person has to look up about 60degrees to see his face, which is awkward.

.70 still puts him at a head taller than every other NPC and creature in the game.

EDIT: Have done some further ingame testing, 0.75 is optimal, more than 0.8 and the whole creature can't be seen on screen at once, which doesn't work very well.