TR NPC Claim 4-13-Hla [Rats]

[Why]

Copy-paste from the previous thread:

This NPC claim includes an unnamed plantation, a daedric shrine and some interiors scattered about the wilderness.

The Map 4 file to work off can be found here: https://dl.dropbox.com/s/04u2o56tvp8fkt ... -13-NPC.7z
When working on this claim, load up the Map4 esp alongside your active esp. Do NOT directly modify the Map4 esp.

The following interiors are included:

426 - Guard tower
427 - Farm house, couple lives here
428 - Farm storage
429 - Ferryman's house, the ferryman himself is out by the boat
430 - Daedric Shrine. NPCs that you see fit may be placed, but this interior is not yet connected to its corresponding exterior.
431 - Underwater grotto. Leads to the above shrine. May be NPC'd but it is not yet connected to the exterior.
432 - Guard tower
433 - Velothi tower
434 - Farm storage. Leave empty.
435 - Lookout tower w/ storage on main level
436 - Guard tower, small dock located outside
437 - Lookout tower
438 - Farmhouse
439 - Coastguard Tower

Plantation [2, -25]
440 - Laborer's house. Couple and a child.
441 - Plantation foreman. Single Dunmer male.
442 - Guard Tower
443 - Storage room
444 - Guard Tower
445 - Plantation Owner's home. Home of a Hlaalu councilor. Includes guard tower and slaves quarters.
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=297288#297288
Refer to above thread for basic plan. Work with it as you see fit, but try to keep with the spirit of the post.
446 - Guard Tower
447 - Slave shack
448 - Slave shack
449 - Slave shack
Nine slaves total for the shacks. Most, not necessarily all of them, should be out in the fields doing slave things.

The name of the plantation and shrine is, within reason, up to the claimant.

Load the provided .esp alongside your NPCing .esp, like you would your earlier M4 file, and choose "Combine Loaded Plugins". Go over it real quick to check if nothing was accidentally removed when I cut this out of the M4 file. And ignore the missing region error.

Previous discussion: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23853

[Rats]

upload

[Rats]

btw, arvis, is the Daedric shrine still off-limits?

[arvisrend]

I'd say if you have a good idea of what to fill it with, do so, but beware that the pothole will require some fixing (seen that giant caspering rock?). The only thing I don't want is another Azura shrine full of outlaws and daedra; unfortunately I have no real plan what should live there instead. We might go with Mages Guild scholars...

[Why]

The ruin looks completely uninhabited. Maybe all the Azura worshipers were killed (by a rival cult, one of the Bad Daedra's, or maybe the Ordinators as a result of some poor communication, mistaking the Azura cult for a Bad Daedra cult) ages ago, and their ghosts still haunt the halls, unable to depart this world because they haven't fulfilled some sort of duty Azura tasked them with before their death?

edit: there's quite a bit of static water in this int that might as well be replaced with real water.

[Aeven]

Why don't we go a totally different route and have the Azuran shrine actually dedicated to Azura and used by the Temple? Possibly studying her Anticipational qualities?

[Why]

Because it's uninhabited and super hidden and remote?

[6plus]

Because it's uninhabited and super hidden and remote?

the temple already sent ordinators through all of Vardenfell from Vivec to Ald Daedroth instead of Ald Sotha which is in sight range of Vivec (I just assume that the Temple uses MGE)!

[Rats]

I had this idea of the shrine being like a little piece of Moonshadow on Nirn, with its waterfall, ponds, plentiful flora and natural caverns. There would be Azura worshipers, alive ones, but they'd be in an eerie state of bliss--to the point where they wouldn't need to eat or drink or sleep, living only by Azura's grace. Since the shrine is very well isolated, the worshipers would be really detached from the real world, not knowing much of the outside, not noticing the passing of time -- sort of like an TES version of Shangri-La. The worshipers' leader would be a priestess claiming herself to be specially chosen by Azura to lead the shrine and its denizens to a better future; a charismatic yet an obvious case of crazy.

There would also be a host of Ordinators whom the Temple sent to investigate what's up with the shrine (or even outright purge it, since the worshipers' adoration of Azura borders blasphemy). The Ordinators would be really fucked up in the head. Maybe they were killed upon entering the shrine and then reanimated by the cult/Azura as some kinda bonewalkers for punishment.

[Not]

I had this idea of the shrine being like a little piece of Moonshadow on Nirn, with its waterfall, ponds, plentiful flora and natural caverns. There would be Azura worshipers, alive ones, but they'd be in an eerie state of bliss--to the point where they wouldn't need to eat or drink or sleep, living only by Azura's grace. Since the shrine is very well isolated, the worshipers would be really detached from the real world, not knowing much of the outside, not noticing the passing of time -- sort of like an TES version of Shangri-La. The worshipers' leader would be a priestess claiming herself to be specially chosen by Azura to lead the shrine and its denizens to a better future; a charismatic yet an obvious case of crazy.

There would also be a host of Ordinators whom the Temple sent to investigate what's up with the shrine (or even outright purge it, since the worshipers' adoration of Azura borders blasphemy). The Ordinators would be really fucked up in the head. Maybe they were killed upon entering the shrine and then reanimated by the cult/Azura as some kinda bonewalkers for punishment.

I gotta be honest; I liked the beginning part of this idea, as far as making the shrine similar to what you'd expect the moonshadow realm to look like, however I don't know how that could really be implented lore wise, so I'm hesitant to say okay to that idea (perhaps Why and/or Stryker could offer up some input on that front.) As far as the devoted servants go, I'm not really liking that idea so much; it seems to be what Why said no to about having hostiles in another Azura Shrine.

To offer a different take, I was thinking perhaps an obscure quest of some sort that's given to you by a friendly (as in non-hostile) Winged Twilight.

I'm not sure what to do with the shrine really, but I think a non-hostile Winged Twilight with an unique name would be fitting, it'd explain the look of abandonment that the shrine already has, sticks with lore, is an Azura shrine with no hostiles in it, and is at the same time different but in a lore friendly way compared to other Daedric shrines around.

[Why]

I like the first part, I think. I don't know, I'll need to sleep on it.

[Not]

I like the first part, I think. I don't know, I'll need to sleep on it.

Initiating Why Language Translator.....taking sentence....translating.....

Translation: "I'm okay with the idea now, because the wind is blowing this way, but tomorrow the wind is supposed to be blowing the other way, so I'm not sure I'll like the idea tomorrow."

Hmm...well, Why can't really make up his mind, perhaps having Stryker give her input would be best, considering her mind is usually set :p

[Rats]

How about we synthesize this

...a non-hostile Winged Twilight with an unique name...

with this

...ghosts still haunt the halls, unable to depart this world...

which would result in this

Dead worshipers--killed (semi-accidentally?) by Temple Ordinators--who are unable depart, perhaps because they have yet to realize that they are dead, or because they think they have been already taken to Moonshadow by their matron, or because they refuse to leave until their killers are brought to justice. The Winged Twilight would act as a quest giver to find a way to give them peace.

The static water, imho, is an immersion-breaking plague and it will be taken care of...

[Why]

I was actually thinking along the same lines but decided not to post because I didn't really manage to present it right. If you've got it figured out though I'm fine with it.

[Stryker]

Dead worshipers--killed (semi-accidentally?) by Temple Ordinators--who are unable depart, perhaps because they have yet to realize that they are dead, or because they think they have been already taken to Moonshadow by their matron, or because they refuse to leave until their killers are brought to justice. The Winged Twilight would act as a quest giver to find a way to give them peace.

I think this amended idea is good enough to use. Obviously I don't really know that much about what the lore of such a place would be, but I don't think the ideas are too far out there.

Unless Why or someone (probably Why) has any other issues with it, I say just go for it.

[rot]

In case you want the exterior area to always be under dawn/dusk lighting for the Azura/Moonshadow theme, I think the "ingame time / real time" ratio can be manipulated.

[arvisrend]

In case you want the exterior area to always be under dawn/dusk lighting for the Azura/Moonshadow theme, I think the "ingame time / real time" ratio can be manipulated.

I'd be careful with what this implies for certain time-based quests, though...

Hmm. Maybe a special weather region for that place?

[Not]

I'd be careful with what this implies for certain time-based quests, though...

Hmm. Maybe a special weather region for that place?

I like the idea of a special weather region for the place (assuming it can be pulled off,) but I'm against changing the time of the area for the obvious reason stated above.

On the other hand, if you wanted to have it to where the shrine is only accessible during those hours or something like that, I'm okay with that too.

[Rats]

New file up.

All pathgrids done in all interiors.

A few new NPCs and new dialogue.

Removed some of the static waters from the shrine and replaced it with real water. (When I said the shrine is a piece of Moonshadow on Nirn I didn't mean I'd drastically change the shrine; I meant that it already kinda reminded me of Moonshadow--then again, a couple of mushrooms in a cave don't really count as "plentiful flora" as I put it. But perhaps something interesting could happen with the shrine depending whether it was dusk/dawn or not.) Added ghost worshipers and a winged twilight named Aizuhr-Suur to the shrine.

Would someone please take a look at the four interior cells that make up the shrine? I have trouble figuring out how they're supposed to connect to each other. The two aisles are already connected to the innermost shrine, but the way the aisles are connected to each other and/or the cavern halls is still unclear to me.

[Rats]

Oh, nevermind about the shrine's connections - i figured that out already.

[Rats]

Update and triple-post. Nearly done with this. Need to spellcheck the old dialogue, write some new; and write a script that'll lock and unlock the doors of the Azura's shrine depending on the time of day (the other door's only open at dawn, the other at dusk).

A few questions, though.

1) All of the TR NPCs have the "TR_mX_NPC" script attached to them. Since there's no Map 4 version of the script at the moment, will I fabricate it (i.e. copy and paste the old script but change the map number to 4) or will these scripts be added at a later stage?
2) Within the confines of this claim (it's pretty huge an area) is it allowed for me to make a few misc quests while I'm at it? Pretty much all the NPCs that I've made, I've made with a quest in mind. I don't mean to clutter the place with a multitude of uninteresting chores, but, for example, there's a farmer whose brother's gone missing: a quest which could be easily done at this stage.
3) I suppose I'll be placing the wilderness creatures, too (?).

[Yeti]

There had Map 4 scripts the last time I worked on my NPC claim. Maybe you need to update your data?

[Not]

Update and triple-post. Nearly done with this. Need to spellcheck the old dialogue, write some new; and write a script that'll lock and unlock the doors of the Azura's shrine depending on the time of day (the other door's only open at dawn, the other at dusk).

A few questions, though.

1) All of the TR NPCs have the "TR_mX_NPC" script attached to them. Since there's no Map 4 version of the script at the moment, will I fabricate it (i.e. copy and paste the old script but change the map number to 4) or will these scripts be added at a later stage?
2) Within the confines of this claim (it's pretty huge an area) is it allowed for me to make a few misc quests while I'm at it? Pretty much all the NPCs that I've made, I've made with a quest in mind. I don't mean to clutter the place with a multitude of uninteresting chores, but, for example, there's a farmer whose brother's gone missing: a quest which could be easily done at this stage.
3) I suppose I'll be placing the wilderness creatures, too (?).

1. I'm not really sure, I'd ask arvisrend or Why about that. Personally, I'd just go ahead and fabricate it, seeing as how we're going to have to make a map4 version of the script anyways, but I recall (I think Why...?) mentioning something about those scripts being outdated and needing to be changed around anyways, so just clarify with Why and arvisrend first.

2. I don't see why not. Just don't go overboard, and make sure that each misc. quest you make is well documented, that way it's easier for on the Reviewers.

3. Yes, replacing wilderness creatures, and going by arvisrend's post on wilderness creatures and levels etc.

Hope that helps. Happy modding!

[Not]

Ninja'd

There had Map 4 scripts the last time I worked on my NPC claim. Maybe you need to update your data?

That's also a strong possibility. What data file(s) are both of you using? Hopefully they're both up to date.

I'd also just like to say, as far as map4 scripting goes, I really have no idea if they're already implemented or not. There's a possibility that Rats' region was overlooked somehow, though I'd like to think that didn't happen.

[arvisrend]

0) Nice idea about the shrine doors! :)

1) The current TR_Data.esm contains a TR_m4_NPC script. Get the Data from http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/esp/browser.php if you haven't already.

2) I don't really expect any problems with your quests, but still it would be good if you'd post your plans here before you start implementing them for the case that something in them is incompatible with something else we're doing. Please try to not have misc quests scream "misc" overly much; we had that at Helnim and it wasn't good.

3) Feel free to do that or let me once I'm done with the m2-3 stuff. I assume you're aware of http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23780 and particularly https://dl.dropbox.com/u/83265276/map4-diff.png . (Some of your claim might be in the "Armun Ash" zone on my map, but don't take that at face value.)

[Rats]

1) Ach, it was my Data indeed. Hadn't kept it up to date.

2) I'll run the quest ideas by you guys before implementing them. :)

3) I'll do that, then. The farmland will be really really early game stuff: docile creatures like molecrabs and guar with a few rats and nix-hounds.

[Rats]

Oh, but it seems that the NoLore and Slave scripts for Map 4 are still lacking from the Data.

Also, sorry for the extensive doppelposting but I'm somehow unable to edit my posts on the Exteriors forum.

[Thrignar Fraxix]

yeah don't worry about it. That is required for claim threads to prevent people from accidentally breaking everything forever. We understand the limitation and won't hold the double posting against you.

[Not]

yeah don't worry about it. That is required for claim threads to prevent people from accidentally breaking everything forever. We understand the limitation and won't hold the double posting against you.

What does any of this have to do with breaking claim threads?? [/img]

[Thrignar Fraxix]

this is in a claim subforum, actual claim thread or not. If posts could be edited here then they could be edited in claim threads.

[Not]

How's this coming along, Rats?

[Rats]

Been working with the other NPCing claim lately, so I hadn't paid much attention to this. However, now that I took a quick look at it, it's more or less ready. I'll just clean it up a bit before posting a new file.

There were these two misc quest ideas that I wanted to run by you guys for approval/disapproval, before implementing them.

First one's about a local farmer trying to find out about what happened to his missing brother.

Code: Select all

The Missing Brother

Index 5: I’ve found a young Dunmer drowned in the grotto of Malarnubi.

[alt start] Index 10: Rulvam Helseri asked me to find his younger brother Salrym. The two brothers had an argument after which Salrym took their boat and rowed north of their farmhouse.

Index 20: I’ve found Salrym Helseri, drowned in the grotto of Malarnubi. I should break the news to Rulvam Helseri.

Index 30: Rulvam Helseri was devastated upon hearing of his brother’s death.

The other one is a small build up for a larger scheme where the plantation foreman is secretly planning a coup to overthrow the plantation owner with the help of Camonna Tong.

Code: Select all

[b]Camonna Tong Ain’t Nothing to Nchow With[/b]

[start] Index 5: Oras Mundrethi, a sharecropper for the Rethil Plantation, asked me to find a way to get rid of two suspicious-looking fellows who’ve camped outside his house.

Index 10: Golos Tedres and Mols Arvethi refuse to budge. Perhaps I should seek assistance from the Hlaalu officials of the Rethil Plantation.

Index 15: I was told to speak with Dels Ravyn, the foreman of the Rethil Plantation.

[alt start] Index 20: Dels Ravyn asked me to bring Golos Tedres and Mols Arvethi to him. Purportedly, the two are his old associates hired by the foreman himself to work for him.

Index 30: Golos Tedres and Mols Arvethi agreed to follow me. I should take them to Dels Ravyn.

Index 30: Dels Ravyn thanked me for escorting his associates to him. Apparently, the the two are of the Camonna Tong.

Index 101: Mols Arvethi is dead.

Index 102: Geles Todros is dead.

Index 103: Oras Mundrethi thanked me reservedly for disposing of the suspicious-looking fellows.

[arvisrend]

I don't really understand what the quests are about just from the journal entries... The first one, did the drowner want to kill himself? To prove his balls? The second one, why were the two chaps camping in front of his house anyway?

[Rats]

1) The guy was adventurous by heart and needed to let off some steam after having an argument with his brother over their father's inheritance. So he went pearl diving in the cave.

2) The Camonna Tong guys are standing/camping there because they're just fresh off the boat, and don't know their way to the plantation and are waiting for the foreman's representative to take them there (because this is Morrowind and people get lost even when all they'd need to do is to follow the road).

Sorry for the uninformative journal entries. I wrote the last post in bit of a hurry so I just copy-and-pasted the entries. Writing this one in a hurry too : ) I'll post decent plot summaries when I find the time if needed.

[Not]

Rats, I like where you're going with this, and if you can provide a more detailed plot summary for both (mainly the latter though) I see no reason why these quests can't be implemented.

[Rats]

A wip file up. Do give feedback.

As far as the quests go, I'll write the summaries when I got the time!

[Not]

Alright, sounds good to me

On another note though; I won't really be around till monday, so i'll try and take a look at it then.

[arvisrend]

I have rather little time, so here's just an assortment of comments and questions. The claim seems good so far.

Script TR_m4-431_CryptDoor: please mind the difference between "blocked" and "locked".

Script TR_m4_DawnDoor_Script: why do you have this when you only use the TR_m4_epitu_* scripts? (I must say I like the TR_m4_DawnDoor_Script behavior better than the lock-200 of the TR_m4_epitu_* scripts. But I'm not sure what exactly you have in mind).

Script TR_m4_immeturco_boots_script: two if-statement with identical condition.

Script TR_m4_NPC_arnesian_spectre: use if/else instead of two if's.

NPC TR_m4_Immeturco: is he guaranteed to drop dead? He seems to be standing just at the edge of the precipice, but not yet over it.

Script TR_m4_NPC_Jacchus_Farragian_script: Again, use else. Also, for some reason, you declare a "location" variable but use a "state" variable. Also, the name of the script is too long for OpenMW, so Morrowind might have some issues with it as well (see the typo in the error message I'll now quote -- it's not my typo!). Also:

Unable to find referenced object "TR_m4_ulvo_door" in script TR_m4_NPC_Jacchus_Farragian_scriqt.

While we're talking of warnings:

Expression Error Unable to find spell "TR_m4_liskliss_amu_abi" in script TR_m4_NPC_arnesian_spectre.

NPC "TR_m4_d_Salrym Helseri": Unlootable on purpose?

Script TR_m4_vys-assanud_shrine_script: unfinished? This'll probably require some rewriting to use TR Temple rather than Vvardenfell Temple ranks (or both?). And it throws an EXPRESSION error ingame.

Scripts in general: I see your NPC scripts tend to avoid this:

Code: Select all

short TR_Map

if ( TR_Map != 4 )
	set TR_Map to 4
endif

While these lines are not yet of any use, they will be by the time we're releasing this map. They lead to the corresponding NPC having location-dependent dialogue. Of course, you probably shouldn't be putting this on ghosts, but most NPCs need this piece of code (or an equivalent one, which sets TR_Map to 4 at some point before the player can talk to the NPC).

NPC TR_m4_d_Emmur_Ordinator: I think this is imbalanced. Even if vanilla has a similarly easily accessible set of Indoril armor, but that one is at least in the middle of nowhere. Keep in mind that levitation potions/enchantments aren't that hard to get, and most players will get them before they figure out the Azura puzzle. Plus, I'm not sure if we should paint ordinators as hostile to Azura worshippers.

NPC TR_m4_d_rethil_guard: Did you see a sign on the front of that farm which says Dead Guard Storage? (Also think about balancing -- bonemold isn't that easy to get until a bit into the game.) I'd not be against seeing this one locked away in some basement or barn, but this is a bit too open even for Camonna Tong standards. Ignore if you have some story that explains this away, or this NPC will only be enabled in a quest.

NPC TR_m4_d_Sure-Feet: please no potion here. I know, noobs want to be catered for, but this one takes it too far.

I've heard Adanorcil(?) mentioning that mummies should be limited to Ashlander burials. If so, Vys-Assanud might use some find/replacing. But don't take my word on this.

Llehra Sarani's "Travel" service refusal has a typo: "passanger".

[Rats]

Script TR_m4-431_CryptDoor: please mind the difference between "blocked" and "locked".

I can't take the credit for this script; it came with the interior (kudos to anyone who made the interior, by the way; it's awesome). I'll take the "b" off the "block".

Script TR_m4_DawnDoor_Script: why do you have this when you only use the TR_m4_epitu_* scripts? (I must say I like the TR_m4_DawnDoor_Script behavior better than the lock-200 of the TR_m4_epitu_* scripts. But I'm not sure what exactly you have in mind).

My first intention was to use the DawnDoor (and also a DuskDoor) script, but I could get the damn thing to work so I switched to a clumsy lock version of the script.

Script TR_m4_immeturco_boots_script: two if-statement with identical condition.

The boots were a nasty thing to script. I'll give it another look.

Script TR_m4_NPC_arnesian_spectre: use if/else instead of two if's.

Will see to it.

NPC TR_m4_Immeturco: is he guaranteed to drop dead? He seems to be standing just at the edge of the precipice, but not yet over it.

He's not meant to drop just yet. He's about to test his cool new boots!

Script TR_m4_NPC_Jacchus_Farragian_script: Again, use else. Also, for some reason, you declare a "location" variable but use a "state" variable. Also, the name of the script is too long for OpenMW, so Morrowind might have some issues with it as well (see the typo in the error message I'll now quote -- it's not my typo!). Also:

Unable to find referenced object "TR_m4_ulvo_door" in script TR_m4_NPC_Jacchus_Farragian_scriqt.

Will see to this as well. Man, scripting's hard.
"TR_m4_ulvo_door" no longer exists, but I forgot to delete it in the script.

While we're talking of warnings:

Expression Error Unable to find spell "TR_m4_liskliss_amu_abi" in script TR_m4_NPC_arnesian_spectre.

The ability doesn't exist, but I failed to delete it in the script.

NPC "TR_m4_d_Salrym Helseri": Unlootable on purpose?

Not on purpose. I'll fix it.

Script TR_m4_vys-assanud_shrine_script: unfinished? This'll probably require some rewriting to use TR Temple rather than Vvardenfell Temple ranks (or both?). And it throws an EXPRESSION error ingame.

Yes, it's unfinished. I'll rewrite it.

Code: Select all

short TR_Map

if ( TR_Map != 4 )
	set TR_Map to 4
endif

I'll see to this as well.

I'll remove some of the dead ordinators. The thing about them attacking the Azura worshipers was that they'd been falsely tipped-off by someone who held a grudge against them.

Did you see a sign on the front of that farm which says Dead Guard Storage?

Yeah, hah hah The guard was actually supposed to be killed by an escaped slave who's hiding nearby. I realize now it's not necessary; I'll resurrect the guy and have him wonder out loud where the slave went.

NPC TR_m4_d_Sure-Feet: please no potion here. I know, noobs want to be catered for, but this one takes it too far.

Ok.

I've heard Adanorcil(?) mentioning that mummies should be limited to Ashlander burials. If so, Vys-Assanud might use some find/replacing. But don't take my word on this.

I thought they'd be fitting as there are container mummies in the cavern already. I have no issue axing them though.

Llehra Sarani's "Travel" service refusal has a typo: "passanger".

Roger, roger.

Thank you very much for your points, arvis! Very helpful and very precise as always!

[arvisrend]

My first intention was to use the DawnDoor (and also a DuskDoor) script, but I could get the damn thing to work so I switched to a clumsy lock version of the script.

Here's how the DawnDoor script should look like:

Code: Select all

Begin TR_m4_DawnDoor_Script

if ( OnActivate == 1 )

	if ( GameHour > 6 )
		if ( GameHour < 8 ) ;hour is 6 to 8 am
			Activate
			Return
		endif
	endif
	
	MessageBox "The door to the Aisle of Dawn refuses to open."
	PlaySound, "howl5"

endif

end

Not tested!

Locks give a bit of a wrong impression to the player about how the door is to be opened.

He's not meant to drop just yet. He's about to test his cool new boots! ;)

Ah!

I'll remove some of the dead ordinators. The thing about them attacking the Azura worshipers was that they'd been falsely tipped-off by someone who held a grudge against them.

Hmm. I'd expect ordinators to be smarter, but that's a good idea. Is this how the ghosts came to be?

Yeah, hah hah :) The guard was actually supposed to be killed by an escaped slave who's hiding nearby. I realize now it's not necessary; I'll resurrect the guy and have him wonder out loud where the slave went.

Guards normally are stronger than slaves unless this one was a good archer. That said, I'd love to see some mess caused by escaped slaves.

Keep up the good work!