Dormichigan64's Showcase

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sat May 10, 2014 10:16 pm

Hi, TR!

I do not have my mod ready yet because I have to find my Morrowind disc that I lost a while back. Anyway, in the event that I do find my game, I'll have to "clean" my mod before posting it here. But I'm not 100% sure how TESAME works. Tell me if I'm wrong. So I just run TESAME, select my mod, delete any item/NPC I created, any cells I made, and anything else, like an existing cell, that I modded in any way, right?

I'm not sure how long it'll take to find the game it self, but I hope it's soon, I'm getting a little impatient.

Oh, and do you like cats? They are more or less my life (too bad I don't have one).

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:04 am

Welcome!

Good to see more people on the team! As for TESAME, do NOT delete anything you created and used in your cell. Do delete everything on the list that is not made from you. For example, anything that was made for the original game should be deleted. Hope you'll find that disk soon! (cats are cool.)

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sun May 11, 2014 12:37 am

Hooray!! I found Morrowind ! Turns out it was right under my nose!

Anyways, thx for the reply btw. The mod should be up soon, just need to download tesame and test it!

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Sun May 11, 2014 1:40 am

Cool!

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sun May 11, 2014 2:37 am

I won't be able to do it tonight, though, because it's 10:30 where I am (Ontario), so maybe tomorrow (I hope).

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sun May 11, 2014 1:31 pm

Yay!

So, I have my mod ready, but I ran into a problem... After I cleaned my mod, the house and cave entrance I put near Caldera just... disappeared! But the door markers are still there! I don't know how to fix it, but it's an interior showcase, so yeah. You'll have to type in "player->coc "Abandoned House"" into the console.

Edit: I started a new mod because I didn't really like the one here. I'll still leave up, though!

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sun May 11, 2014 7:01 pm

Peanut Butter Jelly Time!!!

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Tue May 13, 2014 12:42 am

Hey, just checked out your showcase, and it is a good start! However, I would say it needs much more detailing before you could get recommended. Try to check out other similar interiors, and you'll see what I mean. Other than that, here are a few pointers:

-try not to style mix; you currently have poor and rich furniture
-for an interior showcase, npc's aren't needed
-watch out for bleeding, floating, etc. For example that pot is bleeding into the tapestry.
-the cave is good, just requires more detailing as well
-make sure to match some sort of exterior to the interior-the staircase reaching out like that is not very realistic
-if you stick with the cave, perhaps try to hide it more; it's right out in the open. The entrance also looks kind of odd.

Overall, this is a good start for a showcase-it just needs alot of work.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Tue May 13, 2014 11:00 am

I do realize what you mean, that's why I didn't really like it. As I said, I am working on a new showcase.

Thanks for the reply, I will update when I have my other mod ready.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 16, 2014 12:54 am

Hello!

So, I have my mod ready, and I like it! I hope it's detailed enough!

Post by **Seneca37** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:15 am

I'm not the final reviewer, but I am an interior reviewer. I took a quick look at your showcase and found the following problems.

1) Your file is dirty - please clean with TESAME.

2) For an interior showcase do not
A) modify exteriors,
B) add NPCs.
If your interested in creating exteriors or NPCs - create new showcases in this thread for them. You are more than welcome to join more than one group here.

3) I would suggest putting the basement cell in with your main interior. There is no need for 2 cells. This makes reviewing a bit easier.

4)Use the de_p furniture. We need to see how well you can place items on an uneven surface.

5) Sacks need to bleed a bit into floors, walls and other sacks to look more natural, as do pillows. But not cushions, which you've done properly.

6) The bottom cushion in your stack is floating. Here's a tip about item placement: Look at the selection box (the red/green/blue lines around an item). If the bottom 4 lines are dotted - the item is placed properly. If the lines are all solid - the item is usually floating. If the lines disappear (completely or partially) - the item is usually bleeding into something. You may want to look at all your items and check this out.

7) If you create a new item - the ID should start with "TR_".

I like your style - interesting basement layout. This is a good start. Please make the above corrections to your showcase.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 16, 2014 11:05 am

Hi, thanks for the reply.

I will try to fix all those things, but I thought I already cleaned it.

Am I using TESMAE wrong?

And, #4 on the list says use de_p furniture. What you mean?

Post by **Seneca37** » Fri May 16, 2014 1:34 pm

How to use TESAME:
Anything that you did not create or intentionally modify should be deleted from the file.
On a PC, you select items by pressing the "Right" mouse button. The color should change to a Black background with white text. Then press the delete key.
You need to remove all the Misc, Book, Light, NPC, and Balmora Cells.

de_p Furniture:
Most items are specific to either the Dunmer (de) or the imperials (com/imp). In addition there are 4 styles for each: p = poor, r = rich, rm or pr = middle class and finally ex = exterior.

So - you used a Furn_de_r_table_09. This is a rich Dunmers table. We'd like you to use a furn_de_p_table_06 (or which ever you like there are 5 of them). And place several items on it.

Hope this helps.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 16, 2014 8:36 pm

Thanks!

As for TESAME, I forgot to delete the items (lol).

I'll get right to fixing the stuff.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 16, 2014 9:34 pm

Okay, so I fixed all the errors, and I think it's ready.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sun May 18, 2014 1:26 pm

Hello?

Pretty Pink Unicorns!

Not · Post by **Not** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:10 pm

Will take a look at this when I get home tonight

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:27 pm

Yay!

Post by **Seneca37** » Tue May 20, 2014 10:10 am

Looking better. But still a few more things to fix before the real review process.

1. Don't worry about the exterior - remove the Balmora Cells, the banner, and the teleport option from the main door.

2. Remove ownership from the items

3. Work on the placement of the items on the de_p furniture.
I see no rotation on most of the items. You'll need to rotate all 3 axes to get the items to sit properly on this furniture. We are pretty nit-picky about how items are positioned.

Item Placement Tips
Look at the selection box (red/green/blue lines) when positioning an item on top of another item. If all 4 lines, where the two items meet, are dotted (or dashed) the top item is usually positioned properly. If any lines are solid - then the top item is usually floating above the surface. If some of the lines disappear then then top item is usually bleeding into the other item.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Tue May 20, 2014 12:10 pm

Thanks, I'll fix those up.

Just wondering, because I'm the sort of guy who needs to make sure of everything before I do anything (except in my showcase, obviously). So as for claims, 2 things:

-I name the file or the cell the name of the claim?
-Do I download the modder's resource for exterior?

Post by **Seneca37** » Tue May 20, 2014 12:45 pm

-I name the file or the cell the name of the claim?

For Interiors: the cell name and the file name you work on should be the same. So if you are working on claim i5-789-red, your interior would be TR_i5-789, and your file would be TR_i5-789.esp. Note: When you submit your file, the system will automatically tack on your username and a version number.

-Do I download the modder's resource for exterior?

Yes - you will need to look at the exterior in order to match your interior to the exterior's shape. The size and shape of your interior should match the exterior. Pay particular attention to doors, windows, and number of floors. Also you will need to set the NorthMarker properly according to the exterior. But be sure nothing from the exterior ends up in your file.

All this information, plus a lot more are located at the top of the Claims:Interiors:Unclaimed, subject:Interior Rules & Guidelines, and Important Notices to All Claimers. Be sure to read all of this information.

PS: Editing a post does not flag the system that something new has been added. I just happened to see that you were online and checked your showcase post - It took me a few seconds to realize that you had updated your showcase file.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Tue May 20, 2014 10:46 pm

Okay, it's done (I hope)! As I went through the excruciating pain of placing the objects, I said to myself, "Nobody is going to notice this $#!t!!

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Tue May 20, 2014 11:44 pm

Hey, Dormichigan64, just checked your file, and everything is getting better.

These are still a few things you should be aware of.
1. check out the Guide to Modding thread a the top of the showcase page. It should give you all the pointers you need.
2. as seneca37 pointed out, make sure the interior fits the exterior. The staircase on the side of the house is not realistic.
3. try to add some more detail to the place. TR standards usually expect more objects in an interior this size.
4. remember to fix bleeding and floating. For example, you did arrange some of the objects on the bookshelf/table correctly, but some are still off. Also, raise the pillows a little bit, and make the downstairs sacks rest in a more normal way. The tapestry on the ground and the big clump of flowers are also not very normal.

Keep working!

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Wed May 21, 2014 1:03 am

Thanks, I'll get to it. But I thought I didn't need an exterior for an interior showcase?

Not · Post by **Not** » Wed May 21, 2014 1:47 am

Exteriors are not needed for interior showcasing.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Wed May 21, 2014 2:06 am

Okay, so I added a little more detail into it, and I don't know what you mean when you say the sacks are placed in a non-normal way, because I think it's fine, but here it is anyway:

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Wed May 21, 2014 3:25 am

By "fitting the exterior", I meant that the interior had to fit some sort of exterior building. You can see what I mean in the Guide to Modding thread I pointed you to. Also, the sacks in the basement look kind of odd - one of them is placed on top of the other in a weird position.

Post by **Seneca37** » Wed May 21, 2014 8:16 am

You also need to replace the following:
in_hlaalu_hall_corner_01 at location (3414, 6186, 14720)
with an in_hlaalu_room_corner to fix the funky beam situation.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Wed May 21, 2014 11:40 am

Okay, cool. is it just those things that I need to fix?

But because the basement used to be a different cell, it isn't lined up correctly, so I can't place that corner piece down.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Thu May 22, 2014 12:33 am

Aside from what I said above, I think it's good. I added a little bit more detail too.

Edit: updated

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:22 pm

Hey, I'll check this later today, but in the meantime, try to check around the interior, and fix anything you might see. Remember bleeding and floating.

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:37 pm

Alright, here's the list:

The Biggies:
1. You should always use gridsnap properly. All pieces of the shell seem to be matched together with some strange GS number. For the Grid-Snap number, I suggest using either 64 or 32. You should also place doors properly. The one that leads to the basement should be moved back to the end of the hall.
2.One 'in_hlaalu_room_corner' was moved way off to the side. Always remember to double check your work.
3.I can't really imagine putting my bed in the basement, when I have a good home to sleep in. Why not move it up to the main house?
4. To pass promotion, rotation skills need to be very good. Just about everything on de_p furniture still needs some work. It took me a while to learn, but I eventually got it. So I'm sure it will work for you as well.

5.This kind of goes along with tip 5, but it is still something very important. Never bleed items into any surface. There are a few exceptions, forgive me if I miss a few of them:
-sacks
-pillows
-clothing(just press one extra 'f', you pressed it three times on that shirt)
-bowls/plates with points should be bled a little
6. Although you repeatedly made new files, each with more references, I'd say the overall detail still isn't quite enough. For example, the furn_de_p_table_04 in the main house only has four items on its surface.
7. Fitting an exterior is vital. As already said, you do not need to make an exterior building for this showcase, but the interior still has to fit into some same-style structure. Currently, two sides of your Hlaalu house are 6x2, and there are no 6x2 exteriors. Also, in real life, your basement would be sticking out of the ground. Ultimately, I suggest keeping the basement, but changing a few things. Perhaps add a trapdoor?

Some minor tips:

1. try to put pillows on beds
2. move light_de_candle_09_64 a little to the side
3. perhaps replace the pillow on the shelf with something else
4. Make sure books rest against each other
5. Dunmer don't use silverware, try to replace the bowl.
6. Though I don't see any cases of this here, remember that if you are going to put something over a rug, make sure it is completely over the rug.
7. The iron long spear doesn't really belong. Try to put it somewhere a little bit more reasonable.
8. The Ascendants of Dwemer Law book might be ok, but just doesn't seem all that fitting. Perhaps you can replace it with something more simple.
9. The orange light in the window seems interesting, but is never used this way anywhere else. However, I would say it seems quite interesting.
10. That 6-cushion pile seems slightly unrealistic

Your file is clean, so that is good.

Very sorry that no one has made a full check like this yet. We all gave you minor pointers, which didn't have enough effect. (Please remember that the reason to this was that most of us have busy lives, and don't have much time to make full reviews) And please, no not give up on this showcase. Believe it or not, I have seen much improvement on your cell, from the past few files. Just take some good time to improve on this, and I can almost guarantee that you'll soon be making some great-quality interiors!

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:47 am

Okay, I'm going to die soon if I keep working on this, but here it is.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Sat May 24, 2014 3:08 pm

Hello.. lo... lo... o... o...?

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Sun May 25, 2014 9:02 pm

Someone will check your file soon. Please be patient!

Post by **Seneca37** » Mon May 26, 2014 1:39 pm

REVIEW

Clean: YES
Ambient/Sunlight/illegal-to-sleep-here: OK/OK/YES
Northmarker: OK
Fits the exterior (Shape/Size/Door/Windows): OK
Loading errors: NONE
Correct TileSet: YES
Books: ok Ã¢â‚¬â€œnot typical Hlaalu books but common enough. However ArcanaRestored should be removed.
Container Contents: ok Ã¢â‚¬â€œ but change ingredients to food
Items Rotated enough: no

ITEMS THAT NEED TO BE CORRECTED

MAJOR PIECES OF FURNITURE
active_de_p_bed_14 (4121, 3555, 15269) Floating above floor and bleeding into rug.
furn_de_p_bookshelf_01 (4154, 3776, 15312) bleeding into floor
furn_de_p_chair_01 (4024, 3710, 15274) bleeding into rug
furn_de_p_table_01 (3968, 3648, 15266) bleeding into rug
furn_de_p_table_04 (3838, 4002, 15271) bleeding into floor

ITEMS ON DE_FURN THAT NEED X/Y AXIS ROTATION
common_shirt_04 (3840, 4039, 15303) back side is floating above surface
misc_clothbolt_01 (4152, 3829, 15283) the front end needs to be raised a bit
Misc_Com_Bottle_04 (3952, 3617, 15312)
misc_com_plate_05 (3994, 3688, 15296)
misc_com_tankard_01 (3962, 3664, 15301)
misc_com_wood_fork (4009, 3674, 15295)
misc_com_wood_spoon_01 (3982, 3669, 15295)
misc_de_bowl_01 (4153, 3741, 15329)
misc_de_bowl_orange_green_01 (4157, 3702, 15328) bleeding too much, should be raised
misc_de_bowl_redware_02 (4154, 3786, 15324)
misc_de_foldedcloth00 (3968, 3680, 15293)
misc_de_pitcher_01 (3976, 3651, 15308) Move away from center of table
misc_de_pot_redware_04 (4160, 3799, 15367)
misc_de_pot_redware_04 (4160, 3749, 15368)
Misc_Inkwell (3418, 6603, 14672)

FLOATERS
com_basket_01_ingredien (3756, 6647, 14633) & replace with a food basket
light_de_lantern_05_200_S (3865, 5872, 15060) Above rope
sc_paper plain (3413, 6539, 14666) needs to be lowered a bit
sc_paper plain (3413, 6568, 14667) needs to be lowered a bit

BLEEDERS
light_de_lamp_02 (3840, 5388, 14984) Into floor
light_de_lamp_03_512 (3830, 5220, 15243) Into floor
light_de_lamp_04_128 (3740, 6400, 14731) Into floor

MINOR FLOAT
furn_de_p_stool_01 (3601, 6546, 14620) Ã¢â‚¬â€œ need to double Ã¢â‚¬Å“FÃ¢â‚¬Â this to sit properly on the floor
misc_com_bottle_11 (4015, 3476, 15245) Backend not resting on crate
misc_com_tankard_01 (3984, 3511, 15242) Backend not resting on floor
misc_com_wood_cup_02 (4012, 3503, 15244) Top of cup not resting on crate
misc_de_pot_blue_01 (3954, 3519, 15243) Backend not resting on floor
light_de_candle_09_64 (3857, 5956, 14712) lower this just a tiny bit more down to the stair

MINOR BLEED
light_de_lantern_05_200_S (3375, 5324, 15187) Into rope
light_de_lantern_05_200_S (3429, 6267, 14808) Into rope
Misc_Quill (3417, 6608, 14683) Into inkwell

OVERLAP
Gold_010 (3936, 3655, 15294) with Gold_025

OTHER ISSUES
misc_uni_pillow_01 (4116, 3483, 15296) pillow on bed not bleeding enough.
bk_ArcanaRestored (4160, 3759, 15392) remove Ã¢â‚¬â€œ not a book that would be found in a typical Hlaalu residence.

BOOKS on bookcase need to be moved or additional x/y/z rotation. I suggest moving them over to the shelf Ã¢â‚¬â€œ its flat.
bk_AedraAndDaedra (4160, 3777, 15384)
bk_BiographyBarenziah1 (4160, 3765, 15387)
bk_ChangedOnes (4160, 3783, 15383)
bk_ABCs (4160, 3789, 15383)

Comments:
I can see real progress here. You got the in_hlaalu_corner to fit (Good Job ). But there are problems with that basement. The main being: it doesn't fit the with the 1st floor. Basements are normally directly under a house Ã¢â‚¬â€œ this one runs way out to one side. Simplify the basement by making it a 2x3 structure under the first floor. The current basement is pretty sparse, so you could move just about everything into the smaller structure. But again, I will note that I really liked the style of that basement, and look forward to seeing your work.

You do still need to work on item rotation. Most of the items you placed on the de_p furniture have no X or Y axis rotation. You did get the spool to lay properly Ã¢â‚¬â€œ that's one. If you want the books standing on edge like they are, then I suggest you move them over to the shelf. That has a nice flat surface. Then add some more clutter items to the top of the bookcase. See my notes below on placing items on de_p furniture. But first and foremost Ã¢â‚¬â€œ fix the large pieces of furniture first: the bookcase, the tables and the bed Ã¢â‚¬â€œ before you adjust the rotation of any of the objects.

This may seem like a lot Ã¢â‚¬â€œ but a lot of the items just need to repositioned a bit, and properly rotating items takes the longest. Below are some additional notes about how we handle some of the items you've used. Please read through them. If you have any questions, post them here in your showcase Ã¢â‚¬â€œ or I am usually in the chat room [url]http://widget.mibbit.com/?server=irc.chatspike.net&channel=%23tamriel[/url].

And just out of curiosity Ã¢â‚¬â€œ what software are you using to make this interior?

NOTES:
How we handle the pointy bottom bowls, flasks, etc. First Ã¢â‚¬â€œ we did put a hit out on the modeler who made them Ã¢â‚¬â€œ so he's no longer an issue. There are 2 ways to deal with these nasty objects. First is to treat that bottom as real Ã¢â‚¬â€œ then you have to rotate it so that one of those tiny triangles sits perfectly flat on a surface (this is difficult even for seasoned modelers Ã¢â‚¬â€œ so nobody does that anymore - nor is it logical to have bowls shaped like that - everything would keep spilling out). The second Ã¢â‚¬â€œ most common approach is to bleed the bowl into the supporting surface. How far you bleed is up to you Ã¢â‚¬â€œ but it MUST be consistent throughout your interior, and just resting it on its point is not an option. I personally will lower the bowl until all the nasty point triangles are just below the surface. Most bowls have a line/edge that makes it easy to tell how far you have to go. I position the bowl so that that line is perfectly level with the surface. Just be sure that the bottom of the bowl doesn't poke out somewhere, or that the surface that you're bleeding into doesn't show in the bottom of the bowl.

What can bleed. As for interior clutter objects, we like all sacks to bleed a bit into the surface that they are resting on. In addition, white and red pillows must also bleed a bit. The brown pillows usually don't bleed since they are usually placed on hammocks and it would look strange to have ropes coming out of them. Plant stems must bleed into the planter/ground. But leaves/petals can not bleed into anything Ã¢â‚¬â€œ even other plants. Clothing will usually bleed Ã¢â‚¬â€œ pants, shirts, skirts, robes Ã¢â‚¬â€œ specifically to hide the blank spot (aka caspering). However shoes, jewelry, belts, gloves (for the most part) should not bleed. Rugs can bleed too(see below). Everything else (unless I forgot something) should not bleed. And of course there are always exceptions to every rule.

Rugs:
Rugs are found in almost every building interior. You may bleed a rug into a floor; really useful for the rugs with fringe. However, items placed on a rug must not bleed. If only 1 leg, of a piece of furniture, is on a rug Ã¢â‚¬â€œ then the item has to be rotated so that at least 2 other legs are touching the floor. Tip: most people make sure that all 4 legs or 0 legs are on a rug.

de_p furniture:
Most of the horizontal-ish surfaces of de_p furniture are at odd angles. Switching to wire-frame view (Ã¢â‚¬Å“WÃ¢â‚¬Â) will help you locate good spots to place your items. Avoid placing items over lines of 2 adjoining triangles. Try to position objects so that the entire base of the object is within one triangle Ã¢â‚¬â€œ this makes matching the orientation much simpler. Case in point: the blue pitcher on the table. Look at all the triangles its sitting on. There is no easy way to get that to sit flat on all those surfaces. Move the pitcher away from the center, so that it's base is only on 1 triangle Ã¢â‚¬â€œ then rotate the pitcher until it sits flat on that surface.

Containers:
Always make sure that the items in a container matches the style (Imperial /Dunmer) of the interior. One thing to watch out for are containers with Ã¢â‚¬Å“IngredientsÃ¢â‚¬Â. These are NOT ingredients for cooking but for Alchemists/Mages etc. Don't use them in typical homes.

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Mon May 26, 2014 9:22 pm

Thank you!

When I post the mod when it's done, I'll post another one that I've been working on for fun recently, just to show you what I can do with different style of building (personally, I think it turned out much better then my showcase one). Anyway, I'll see what I can do!

RyanS · Post by **RyanS** » Mon May 26, 2014 9:39 pm

Cool! Excited to see what you come up with!

Dormichigan64 · Post by **Dormichigan64** » Fri May 30, 2014 9:27 pm

So, I hope I'm done, I made the basement smaller like you said, and everything else is good (I hope). As I promised, I posted the other mod I was talking about (WIP), it's call "The Flying Pants Inn" (I couldn't think of another name).

Post by **Seneca37** » Sat May 31, 2014 10:19 am

Nice improvement. You're rotation is getting much better. However, there were still some problems in your showcase. With this being the 3+ review, please submit a new showcase for review. We ask for a new showcase after the 3rd review - because most people grow tired of working on the same interior over and over and over again.

The Flying Pants Inn is just way to big for review. Cut it down to just the top 2 floors and I'll review it. FYI - do not stick lanterns into the ceiling - use a hook, and don't stick plants on top of each other. Double check your rotations and for bleeding/floating items and it should be good to go.

Don't be discouraged - most people have to do a couple of showcases to get to know exactly how we do things. You've come so far.