Tamriel Rebuilt

As the title says, will there be a joinable arena faction (like in oblivion) in Bann Malur?

And if so, maybe your status in the Arena will be recognized by everyone in the Redoran Faction in a topic called "Arena".

Cicero wrote:As the title says, will there be a joinable arena faction (like in oblivion) in Bann Malur?

Probably not. But there'll quite certainly be faction quests which will offer duals in the arena.

An arena faction is unlikely in Baan Malur; the Dunmer have a very different perception of Arenas and their intended use than Imperials.

Or so I'd assume, anyway; there appear to be gladiators in the Vivec arena, but they are almost all outlanders. I frankly have no idea, but bloodsport doesn't strike me as a particularly Tribual-era Dunmeri form of entertainment. Dunmer arenas play an important part in House Wars as sites for duels between noblemen, and I'd personally put far more focus on that aspect, especially in Redoran lands, where such duels are probably especially common.

Things may be different in Hlaalu lands, where Imperial influence is more significant, but it's hard to say. I personally don't consider the idea of an arena faction especially worthwhile, but that may change.

I do, however, think that we should probably consider making arenas more common on the mainland than they are now; though as the only arena on Vvardenfell was in the largest city we could consider limiting them to the faction capitals. (Necrom probably shouldn't have one, and I have no idea about port Telvannis; they'd probably not bother with arenas. I'd actually think Dres would have arenas, and perhaps use them in some sort of more archaic kill-for-the-Daedra kind of way. No idea. I think Almalexia should have one).

I had thought about that, and the Dunmer don't treat arenas in that way as you said. As for the Dres, I forgot about how they handle laws and traditions. I can see them have fights with slaves vs creatures for fun.

Not sure about that; I'd think the Dres would probably be too practically minded. Though they may force misbehaving slaves to tear each other apart with their bare hands or something; or in fact do what you suggested as another form of punishment, now that I think about it. As far as idle entertainment goes, though, those sort of fights would seem like more of a Telvanni thing, and they probably wouldn't bother going to arenas for it either.

What I was getting at, though, is that the Dres might use duels as a form of advancement or proving oneself, for example. Not necessarily to the death; that would be rather impractical, again. But perhaps the player would need to draw blood, either his own or his oppenents.

Ah right, okay. That would make sense.

Not that it will matter much but my vote is for an arena in each tier 1 city. Except Necrom and maybe Old Ebonheart. Can give them each their own architectural spin to match the faction.

I don't see why not, I remember seeing a while ago a concept of Narsis with a huge Arena dome.

Rotheran was used as an arena, but it's more associated with underground, criminal sorts. Maybe illegal fight clubs?

Hemitheon wrote:<snip>
Maybe illegal fight clubs?

We can't talk about that.

I think the Redoran would use Arenas for more than just honour duels and House Wars. Not for gladiatorial bloodsport, mind you, but non-lethal challenges of arms meant to test the skills of warriors and prevent their skills from getting rusty. Think knightly tournaments. Perhaps they are used for other sports related to combat skills, like archery games, racing in heavy armor (ala the ancient greek Hoplitodromos), and boxing (well, the Redorans somehow strike me as being more into wrestling, but Morrowind only has fist-fighting for unarmed combat).

That's another possibility, though I personally feel Redoran are more the sort to temper their warriors in their wild surroundings rather than creating artificial challenges for them in their cities. I wouldn't be against this idea as long as it's handled well.

As far as Narsis is concerned, I frankly forgot that the current version doesn't have the arena; the mesh is still in TR_Data, and without looking closely at it it does look like a good mesh to me, though perhaps not necessarily best used in Narsis. (It appears to be Velothi rather than strictly Hlaalu). There may have been issues with the mesh, however, that I simply don't recall.

I also forgot about Old Ebonheart, but also don't think it would particularly benefit from an arena; it would work either way, but at this point it looks like that means it won't get one.

I don't think old ebonheart should have one. It would seem very out of place and forced, and will ruin the current design. Maybe Narsis would be a good area to have one, a real arena. You don't have to join a faction per say, but perhaps you could bet on fights.

Gnomey wrote:Not sure about that; I'd think the Dres would probably be too practically minded. Though they may force misbehaving slaves to tear each other apart with their bare hands or something; or in fact do what you suggested as another form of punishment, now that I think about it. As far as idle entertainment goes, though, those sort of fights would seem like more of a Telvanni thing, and they probably wouldn't bother going to arenas for it either.

Methinks that the Dres would be using Arenas also as training grounds for their bloodhounds (Do we have plans for Dres bloodhounds? If no, we should absolutely include them). The bloodhounds are sicced on slaves who misbehaved, while the unruly slaves have to watch it. It's a punishment, it's deterrent for the rest of the slaves, and the bloodhounds get a taste for Argonian flesh (and if a slave escapes they're let loose).

Telvanni Arenas would be personal enjoyment for wizards who like this kind of entertainment. There they watch fights between payed mercenaries, exotic beasts, summoned Daedra and perhaps Dwemer constructs.

Gnomey wrote:That's another possibility, though I personally feel Redoran are more the sort to temper their warriors in their wild surroundings rather than creating artificial challenges for them in their cities. I wouldn't be against this idea as long as it's handled well.

I was thinking it could be like a status thing. Since there haven't really been any wars since the Arnesian War, Redoran warriors would gain honour and reputation from performing well in a tournament.

Also relevant to the subject of arenas is the book Hallgerd's Tale, which is about a noble named Hlaalu Pasoroth who competed in games to earn stuff from other nobles.

This was hundreds and hundreds of years ago, and Pasoroth was the ruler of a great estate which he had won by right of being the greatest warrior in the land. It's been said, and truly, that much of the House's current power is based on Pasoroth's earnings as a warrior. Every week he held games at his castle, pitting his skill against the champions of the neighboring estates, and every week, he won something.

Some months before this story begins, he had won the daughter of one of his neighbors, a beautiful creature named Mena who he had made his wife.

So based on discussion, if each faction capital has an arena, then...

Baan Malur's arena is for resolving disputes through duels.
Vivec's arena is the same as in the main game.
Narsis's arena is for entertainment/gambling.
Necrom shouldn't have one.
Old Ebonheart doesn't need one.
Tear's arena is for punishment.
Port Telvannis's arena would be for magical proving grounds?
Almalexia's arena would be for... what? Cultural and religious shows/plays for the Indoril/Temple?

I'd strongly advise against using the Hallgerd series of books as a source for anything. They're written to be wildly inaccurate; they're literally the spoutings of a couple of drunk friends in a tavern. Bonemold is not and never was made from the bones of slaves, for instance.

As far as Redoran status is concerned, I was thinking that a large reason for the relative prevalence of duels among the Redoran is because they use them to fill the void of warfare in Tribunal society. Not sure if I'm comfortable with the idea of them having tournaments or more sport-like activities; their warlike nature served a very practical purpose, which, in modern Morrowind, has no more relevance. If they had a capable way of dealing with that, they wouldn't be flagging as much as they are. The development of knights and, with them, tournaments runs parallel to the development of House Redoran, but ends very differently: the knights managed to successfully install themselves as a social class long after their original relevance was lost, or, at least, marginalized, and moved past their martial origins, while House Redoran has signally failed to do so. Basically, I think tournaments would create the wrong impression of House Redoran.

As far as the list of arenas, as I mentioned before I don't think the Telvanni should have one. They're reclusive, and a public entertainment venue would very much run counter to their character.
I think all Dunmer arenas should be for duels, though Indoril, Hlaalu and -- probably -- Dres would rarely use them as such, and would have developed additional uses for the building as listed.
The Almalexia arena could go a few ways; if it's near Mournhold, it may have been somewhat appropriated by foreigners, and, much like the Vivec arena, would have outlander fighters who train and fight there, for instance.
I'd consider an additional arena for Kragenmoor which could present more of the Imperial approach to arenas rather than Narsis, which would reflect the Hlaalu approach.