Cleaning up the forums

klep · Post by **klep** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:47 am

I've been going through the forums and its stickies and want to propose a grand cleanup/update session to keep things organised and clear for old and new members. Some stickies may not really need to be sticky and some require drastic updating. Then there are helpful threads and guildelines all over the place which could be compiled in a more organised way.
I've listed the relevant threads below under their respective sub forums.
This is just a proposal - everything and anything in it can be discussed and/or discarded.

Private
Internal Discussion
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23081]TR Modding Map[/url] - Though still amazing, very much outdated and mostly replaced by Seneca/Theminimanx' maps [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24856]here[/url].
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22230]TR Steam Group[/url] - Is this still a thing? TF who manages it isn't active anymore so I'm not sure if this thread still requires sticky status.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23508]Imperial Guilds[/url] - Outdated. Should be updated and maybe go public.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19165]NPC Claims guidelines and hints[/url] - Slightly outdated (link to map doesnt work). Maybe try to gather all relevant modding guidelines and tutorials in one place, such as the (public) [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24574]Tutorials[/url] thread.

Public
TR Public Discussion
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17814]Tamriel Rebuilt's Leadership [A List][/url] - Possibly outdated due to inactivity. Not sure if updating it is priority.

Developer Showcase
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18224]Guide to Modding for TR (Must Read!) (Updated 6 Sep 2013)[/url] - I'm not the technical guy so can't say if it's really up to date. Could be merged with the public tutorials thread.
Showcase guideline threads - I would recommend renaming them to "[Area] Showcase Guidlines" for clarity and consistency.

Mod Planning
Master Planning
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24291][Master Plan] Foundation Document[/url] - Requires some updating.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24856]Maps[/url] - I've seen maps all over the place and in links on Skype and IRC. This thread could represent them all in one organised and easily updated place.

Old Ebonheart
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24354]Old Ebonheart: things to be done[/url] - There hasn't been posted in this thread for quite a while. I don't know how far the development of OE actually is, but maybe updating this thread could clarify this.

Asset Development
Lore & Quest Discussions
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22709]Guide to NPC Detailing[/url] - Great guide which should be mentioned in the general tutorials thread.

Literature & Writing
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23843]The Great Text Overhaul[/url] - Not sure if up to date. I should be able to help out with checking this.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]Writing Requests/Review Thread for Claims[/url] - The list of current requests is definitely outdated. I'd love to see modders use this thread for their interiors to spice things up. Though it may not seem that way, I think there are quite a few writers around who could be up to the task.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:23 pm

Thank you for taking the initiative on this, klep. The forum stickies could definitely use a thorough pruning. I've listed my suggested actions for each topic below.

TR Modding Map - Replace with a thread for current maps, including Seneca/Theminimanx's maps and Swiftoak's thematic concept maps.

TR Steam Group - Either archive this or replace it with updated information, if people are still interested in having a project Steam group.

Imperial Guilds - Send this to the archives. The locations of each guild chapter should be discussed in their respective threads in Master Planning.

NPC Claims guidelines and hints - When I find time, I would like to compile a comprehensive guide for NPCing. Until then, we can leave this thread up.

Tamriel Rebuilt's Leadership [A List] - Very much out of date and no longer relevant under our current shared project leadership structure for managing the project. I'd send it to the archives. Even if we did update it, I doubt it would stay current for long.

Guide to Modding for TR (Must Read!) (Updated 6 Sep 2013) - Looks surprisingly up to date to me, at least after a quick glance. Could probably use a few tweaks.

[Master Plan] Foundation Document - Yeah, we really need to get around to updating this.

Maps - I agree. We should put all the maps here.

[Master Plan] Foundation Document - I wouldn't mind having an up-to-date check list as well.

Guide to NPC Detailing - As mentioned above, I would like to eventually build upon this in the future.

The Great Text Overhaul - I would keep this where it is for now, as a reminder of how far we've come and as a useful place to discuss replacing books.

Writing Requests/Review Thread for Claims - Yes, we could use a new version of this thread.

Theminimanx · Post by **Theminimanx** » Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:18 pm

The developer showcase subforum could probably use an update. We have 9 different stickies, and relevant information is all over the place, including in entirely different subforums. Not to mention the amount of broken (image) links.

I could probably collect all this information and recompile it, though I'd appreciate it if someone could look my work over for glaring errors. I'm not exactly an expert in all areas of modding.

EDIT: On the topic of maps, I actually kind of wonder what the point of the maps I made is. It only really shows what we have so far, but people have a far more detailed and up-to-date version of that in their heads.

Terrifying Daedric Foe · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:18 am

Quests Open! You know you want to claim them! - [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181]link[/url] - Firstly, the title is incorrect because there are no quests in Unclaimed. Secondly, it hasn't been updated since 2012.

Edit:

Things to Remember [Morrowind] - [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10367]link[/url] - This is from 2005 and has been superseded by Guidelines for TR Questers (Morrowind) ([url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21296]link[/url]), which itself could probably do with being condensed into a single post.

klep · Post by **klep** » Mon Apr 20, 2015 8:51 am

Some nice input here. Let's work on this.

Private
Internal Discussion
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23081]TR Modding Map[/url] - Can be archived.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22230]TR Steam Group[/url] - Can be archived.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23508]Imperial Guilds[/url] - Can be archived.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19165]NPC Claims guidelines and hints[/url] - Slightly outdated (link to map doesnt work). Maybe try to gather all relevant modding guidelines and tutorials in one place, such as the (public) [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24574]Tutorials[/url] thread. - Leave as is for now. Both Yeti and Theminimanx have offered to work on compiling these threads.

Public
TR Public Discussion
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17814]Tamriel Rebuilt's Leadership [A List][/url] - Can be archived.

Developer Showcase
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18224]Guide to Modding for TR (Must Read!) (Updated 6 Sep 2013)[/url] - Leave as is for now - might require slight tweaking.

Showcase guideline threads - I would recommend renaming them to "[Area] Showcase Guidlines" for clarity and consistency. My comment still applies here

Mod Planning
Master Planning
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24291][Master Plan] Foundation Document[/url] - Still requires updating. I'm going to read through it and propose some changes, but it might take ages before I actually do as I'm rather busy atm.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24856]Maps[/url] - To be used as the place where all maps go. I'll add one myself which I made with Seneca's source files, which shows the entire province including numbered grids. It's already on my dropbox somewhere.

Old Ebonheart
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24354]Old Ebonheart: things to be done[/url] - As he's been working on it; possibly Seneca could have a look at updating this?

Asset Development
Lore & Quest Discussions
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22709]Guide to NPC Detailing[/url] - Great guide which should be mentioned in the general tutorials thread (Theminimanx).

Literature & Writing
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23843]The Great Text Overhaul[/url] - Leave as is for now, though might require some updating. A link in there to the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Books]UESP TR Books[/url] page could come in handy as it is up-to-date for the most part.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]Writing Requests/Review Thread for Claims[/url] - The list of current requests is definitely outdated. I'd love to see modders use this thread for their interiors to spice things up. Though it may not seem that way, I think there are quite a few writers around who could be up to the task. My comment still applies here. Basically the second post should be emptied to leave space for new requests. Maybe a reminder to this thread in the interior claims forum could help devs to use this thread to its full potential.

Mentioned by Terrifying Daedric Foe:
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181]Quests Open! You know you want to claim them![/url] - This is definitely outdated, but I don't know how/who to update it or what to do with it.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10367]Things to Remember [Morrowind][/url] Should be archived and replaced with [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21296]Guidelines for TR Questers (Morrowind)[/url] which can definitely use a review and single-post-write-up as well.

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri May 15, 2015 3:43 pm

This is an excellent initiative, but it will probably take a while before I reply to this in-depth; I've wanted to do this sort of thing for a long while, but it has generally stayed low on my to-do list.
Aside from outdated, superfluous or otherwise confusing stickies, I think a similar issue exists with sub-forums; at the moment, many of them are either hardly used or, again, superfluous.

Part of fixing the issue will concern figuring out what to do with, for instance, model & texture and sound & music claims, but for the time being what I'll be doing is merging the Public Discussion and Internal Discussion sub-forums. These have the same purpose, except that Internal Discussion is not visible to non-developers. As the really far more vital Master Planning and section threads are all completely accessible to non-devs, which has never really caused us any problems so far, there seems no point in having a hidden sub-forum for random TR-related topics.

Long story short, I've hijacked this thread to announce that I shall begin gradually merging those sub-forums, starting with this thread.

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:37 am

Shortly possessed by the Spirit of Spring Cleaning, I took a stab at putting together an example of how the forums could be reorganized to be more user-friendly and suited to our current needs. The example is still unfinished; I'm rather uncertain about some of the sub-forums and the stickies are very incomplete, but I think there's already more than enough to get the discussion going.

Bullet points represent sticky threads.

[spoiler]GENERAL

News - we've been neglecting this; we need to either resume activity here or consider alternatives, such as tumblr integration.

Project Organization - this one's important; half the stuff that would go in here is currently in Admin, though there's no reason for it to be hidden, simply for the lack of a better alternative. This forum is for keeping updated on and working with other projects, like OpenMW and Project Tamriel, but also threads like this one, about internal site matters.
-Developer Roll-Call - a place for developers -- especially leads -- to post updates on their status, for example if they are going on hiatus or planning to step down.

TR Downloads
-TR_Data
-TR_Data Error Reporting
-TR Mainland
-TR Mainland Error Reporting
-TR in-Development Downloads - this should be consolidated into two files: a public WIP file -- a merge of all exteriors not in TR_Mainland; and a development WIP file, which does not contain section files and exterior claims.

Developer Showcase
-How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt - this one needs to be updated. While I don't think we need to change int., ext. or quest showcases, I do think we need to reconsider asset showcases, as well as a way to promote people who make significant contributions to planning and organization, such as klep and Theminimanx. This should also have links to the various guideline stickies.
-PLEASE remind us of your showcase if it seems forgotten! YO! - as relevant as ever.

Off-Topic Discussion

Forum Archives - should this stay in PRIVATE? I see no reason why it should.

---

MOD PLANNING

Master Planning

... Sections ...

Quest Development - for discussing and developing smaller stories, quests and questlines. Mostly equivalent to the int./ext. proposal threads.

TR Discussion - for general threads pertaining to TR which don't fit in the above categories, such as the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24967]Cooked Meats?[/url] thread.

---

ASSET DEVELOPMENT

Literature and Writing

Concept Art - more-or-less a brainstorming thread for atmospheric art and rough functional sketches.

Asset Development - approved designs from the concept art sub-forum are further developed here. This sub-forum is also for discussing model resources, patching up faulty assets, etc.
-Asset Development Guidelines - very important: I think we need to build on Lady Nerevar's post [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=18224]here[/url] and establish set standards we expect of our models. Currently, we do not appear to have anybody able and willing to assess the quality of individual models, so we at least need clear, visible guidelines for modellers to orient themselves on.
-Concept Artist Guidelines
-Assets Needed for Morrowind - this is a thread for posting which assets we need and discussing whether we really need them. The assets should not be designed or made here -- they should get their own threads -- and modder resources should not be linked either.
-Asset Apocrypha - a dumping ground for TR assets which have not been properly uploaded on the forums.
-Modder Resources - this is the place to discuss potential modder resources to include in the project.

Sound and Music - sub-forum devoted to discussing and implementing sound assets.

---

PRIVATE

Administration - mostly unused sub-forum for the sort of stuff that shouldn't be publicly visible, such as discussing a particularly delicate bit of moderation and organizing arcane rituals.

Website - technical mumbo-jumbo forum nobody posts in.

---

CLAIMS

Exteriors
-Exterior Claim Proposal Thread
-Exterior Rules and Guidelines

Interiors
-Interior Claim Proposal Thread
-Interior Rules and Guidelines

Quests - focused on implementing quests which have been designed and approved in the Story and Quest Discussion sub-forum.
-Quest Claim Guidelines[/spoiler]

And now I should probably go to sleep.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:19 pm

Seems like a reasonable plan to me.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:57 pm

I haven't been able to get too much done today or yesterday, though hopefully tomorrow will be different. As it is, I wanted to at least go ahead and post the forum setup we agreed on in the meeting, along with the basic merging instructions:[spoiler]PUBLIC (wouldn't mind if this were to be renamed to 'GENERAL', as most of the forum is public by now)

News

Project Organization

Downloads (merged Public Beta Testing, Help, Walkthroughs, and Spoilers, and Internal Testing & Downloads, which sounds like a lot, but the first and last are fairly empty and the obsolete stuff can probably be archived, if not now then later down the line)

Developer Showcase

Off-Topic Discussion

---

MOD PLANNING

Master Planning

...sections...

History and Lore (lore part of Lore & Quest Discussion should go here.)

Quest Development (quest part should go here, as well as quest design claims)

TR Discussion

---

ASSET DEVELOPMENT

Literature and Writing

Concept Art

Asset Development (Objects of Tamriel claims will be merged into here; model creation will no longer be handled via the claims system)

Sound and Music (sound claims will be merged into here; they will no longer be handled via the claims system)

---

PRIVATE

Administration

Website

Forum Archives (turns out this may be troublesome to move, so we won't bother. Anyone who can't access this isn't missing much)

---

CLAIMS

Exteriors
Unclaimed
Pending
Claimed
Reviewing
Finished
N/A

Interiors
Unclaimed
Pending
Claimed
Reviewing
Finished
N/A

Quests (design stage now handled in quest development rather than via the claim system)
Unclaimed
Pending
Claimed
Reviewing
Finished
N/A[/spoiler]As far as the above list is concerned, my next priorities are to write a new description for each sub-forum and then to sort out the stickies.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:36 pm

Sounds good, Gnomey. I'd say go ahead and rename Public to General.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:15 pm

I've moved this thread to the new Project Organization sub-forum. Hopefully I'll be able to update the above list with sub-forum descriptions before I go on vacation. As a note, on IRC Haplo mentioned "I'm not sure I like merging Beta Testing with Help, WalkThroughs and Spoilers because "Downlaods" doesn't shout "Help section"", which I think is a good point. I do think a suitable description for the sub-forum might help, and if that's not enough that we could consider calling the sub-forum something like 'Downloads and Help'.

klep · Post by **klep** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:52 pm

"Downloads, Help & Beta Testing" should do as sub-forum title. I agree with Halpo and think it should be as clear as possible.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:06 pm

Hm. How about "Downloads, Help and Feedback"?

While I'm at it, should "Quest Development" become "Quests and Scripting"? Scripting doesn't get discussed much, but I figure it would be good to give it a clear place in the forums.

One of my goals is to keep the sub-forum names short, but, even though the descriptions are there to clarify their purpose, they should still be fairly self-explanatory, so any ideas on shortening any of the longer names are welcome, as well as feedback on the clarity of names.

Also, as I don't think I've directly asked this yet, a question for questers: do you feel that the claims system works well for quests? I've advocated moving away from the claims system for sound assets and models as I feel trying to handle them through the claims system would be counterproductive, at least considering the current state of the project, but do not feel familiar enough with the questing side of things to make a judgement on that matter.
---

Here's my first attempt at sub-forum descriptions:

[spoiler]GENERAL

News The news of the front page, global announcements, and any discussion of said announcements or news articles.

Project Organization Topics about the project itself, the site, its members, its social media presence and cooperation with other projects.

Downloads, Help and Bug Testing Where to discuss, ask questions about and report bugs of TR's public releases.

Developer Showcase A place for people to show their work and improve their skills. If you want to become a Developer for TR, please create a thread here.

Off-Topic Discussion Non TR-Related Discussions. (Lounge)

---

MOD PLANNING

Master Planning Brainstorming, discussing, and drafting of TR's Master Plan happens here.

[Section] Planning for [area].

History and Lore Where to discuss TES and TR lore and history as it applies to the project.

Quest Development This is where quests are designed and discussed before they are finalized into quest claims.

TR General Discussion Miscellaneous topics about the project go here.

---

ASSET DEVELOPMENT

Writing Forum for the organization of writing for TR; including compilation, review, correction, and submission of material.

Concept Art Post your Tamriel-related art here.

Asset Development This place is for working on assets for TR_Data, such as models and textures. Approved concepts will be posted here and, if necessary, be further developed for the asset developer's convenience. All modelling, texturing and animation work should be discussed and developed here.

Audio All sound assets, such as creature sounds, voice acting, sound effects and music, should be discussed and developed here.

---

PRIVATE

Administration Administration forum for forum administration.

Website Topics in this forum are viewed somewhere in the website. The [X] tags specify which part.

Forum Archives Where posts gather to grow old and grey together. And then die.

---

CLAIMS

Exteriors
Unclaimed You can claim exteriors in this forum.
Pending Exterior claims that have been claimed but not yet granted are here.
Claimed Claimed Exteriors are found here. Please post your progress here.
Reviewing The exterior claims in this forum are currently in the review process.
Finished After an exterior claim has been cleared by a review, the thread will be moved here. Discussion is still allowed.
N/A

Interiors
Unclaimed You can claim interiors in this forum.
Pending Interior claims that have been claimed but not yet granted are here.
Claimed Interiors that have been claimed are found in this forum. Please post your claim progress here.
Reviewing The interior claims in this forum are currently in the review process.
Finished After an interior claim has been cleared by a review, the thread will be moved here. Discussion is still allowed.
N/A

Quests
Unclaimed You can claim quests in this forum.
Pending Quest claims that have been claimed but not yet granted are here.
Claimed Quests that have been claimed are found in this forum. Please post your claim progress here.
Reviewing The quest claims in this forum are currently in the review process.
Finished After a quest claim has been cleared by a review, the thread will be moved here. Discussion is still allowed.
N/A[/spoiler]

klep · Post by **klep** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 11:00 pm

Like I mentioned on IRC, I'd keep Quest Development the way it is and also leave Literature and Writing just like that.

As for the downloads sub-forum, I don't think we can shorten it much more because it contains the downloads as well as being a place to ask questions and report bugs, which should be made clear with the sub-forum title. "Downloads, Help & Testing" is the best I can come up with.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:31 am

I agree with keeping 'Quest Development' as is. 'Downloads, Help and Testing' seems fine, though not perfect. One thing that did come up on IRC is that, while bandwidth is probably not much of a problem for the forums at the moment, TR's public releases are a different matter, as they're increasingly large files which tend to be downloaded by a lot of people. As such, I don't want to emphasize the 'downloads' too much, rather directing people to our files hosted off-site. It might not be too much of an issue as long as our release announcements link to the off-site downloads and perhaps we add a sticky to that effect to the top of the sub-forum or something.

As for 'Literature and Writing', I'm actually still of two minds on that one. I feel 'Writing' is more consistent with 'Concept Art' and 'Audio', and really 'Literature and Writing' is a little redundant, as literature is really just a (broad) subcategory of writing.

klep · Post by **klep** » Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:12 am

I would argue that writing is a subcategory of literature and would therefore call the sub-forum "Literature" rather than "Writing".

A sticky in that sub-forum with a link to the off-site download should do the job.

Post by **Gnomey** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 12:39 am

New draft for the forum restructure; this one is mostly Swiftoak's work with a few adjustments by me. As Swiftoak and I are now admins, we intend to carry this out as soon as possible. We may want to hold a special Skype meeting next Saturday to iron out a few details; I'll write on that in the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24809&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=120]applicable thread[/url].[spoiler]DISCUSSION
News - Place to discuss major TR updates.
Project Organization - Stuff related to project structure, workflow, conventions, and PR.
Downloads, Testing & Feedback - WIP Downloads, Help forum, Bugtesting and Feedback.
Developer Showcase - Showcase work for developer status.
Offtopic - Miscellaneous non-TR related discussion.
Archives - Old and generally outdated, with the rare hidden gem. Enter at your own risk.
Administration - Hidden forum for Lead Developers to handle sensitive moderation.

PLANNING
Master Planning - Place to discuss the Master Plan, develop vision and overall game and narrative mechanics.
Conceptualization - Place to discuss history, story, character development, questlines for factions and other specifics.
Quests & Dialogue - Place where miscellaneous quests and NPC dialogue are written.

ASSETS
Concept Art - Place where art is developed for our game.
Literature - Place where in-game literature is written and developed.
Asset Development - Place where approved concepts are developed into in-game assets.
Audio - Place where the game's audio assets are produced.

SECTION DEVELOPMENT [provisional implementation, NOT to be used for planning, only fixing content]
Old Ebonheart
Indoril-Thirr

Sections In Dormance [this should really be a sub-category of Section Development, as 'Interiors: Unclaimed' is of 'Interiors', but due to the strange way the forum works that might not be manageable]
Almalexia
Hlaalu-Thirr
Kanit Valley [Edit: I actually overlooked this one. Kanit Valley is just the name Swiftoak is currently using in lieu of Othreleth Woods]
TR_Mainland

CLAIMS [temporary until an alternative is found]
Exteriors - Exterior claims
Interiors - Interior Claims
Quests - Quest Claims[/spoiler]More will be said elsewhere on the topic of the notes in square brackets -- in threads such as the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24996]TR Pipeline Discussion[/url] thread and likely in Skype meetings -- so I'd rather this thread weren't used to discuss them. The Website sub-forum will probably still exist, either where it is now or below Project Organization, but we'd probably want to phase it out. It does seem to mostly be a repository for stuff from the old site.

Edit: right, on the topic of cleaning the forums, Swiftoak has also been archiving a lot of old threads in TR General Discussion and Lore & Quest Discussion. The archives should now be visible to all, so all of those threads can still be read by anyone who bothers to dig for them, as before.

Post by **Seneca37** » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:18 pm

All these changes should be made in 1 sweep. Moving stuff around multiple times is just confusing to everyone. So be sure you have the sub-forum topics ready and know what stickies are going to be where.

sasquatch2o · Post by **sasquatch2o** » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:29 pm

I'd make review section open to everyone to post. Also open all proposed quests and create claims for those that make the cut. Forums seem relatively fine as is only the planning section need to be revised imo. I'd just make a set of comprehensive doc's and sticky em. Actual progress and priority setting is current problem.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:47 am

Do there need to be any new stickies written or old ones updated before we can do the forum reorganization?

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:10 am

As far as I'm concerned, not really.

@Seneca: I agree with this, save perhaps the stickies, which I think should mostly be created anew (naturally grabbing from old stickies as necessary) in this sub-forum and then moved into place as they're ready. That being said, I'd certainly prefer if we agreed beforehand where the new stickies should go, so I'm not really disagreeing with you there.

@Sasquatch: yes for opening the review section, as far as I'm concerned, though really it's the opinion of reviewers that counts here. I more or less agree on the quests; some were already intended to be open for claiming, and have only been held back for technical reasons (thanks for reminding me, by the way). I disagree that the forums are mostly fine; they're a mess and hard for new members to get a grasp of. I agree with getting the set of comprehensive docs and stickying them. Agree on progress and priority setting, though I think we may define progress slightly differently. (For me improvements in organization and planning are progress as they allow for faster and better CS implementation; I get the impression you specifically mean CS work when you say progress).

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:41 am

Posting this separately so that people are less likely to overlook it, as it's important:

I'm long overdue posting a clear explanation of my proposal for the downloads section, which I promised in a past Skype meeting. Note that this doesn't take into account later systems we might adopt, for instance when/if we transfer over to OpenMW and/or adopt an automated system; this is the system I consider most convenient and straightforward for the current condition of the project. Though given the trouble I've had explaining it, I may be wrong there.

There will be four primary downloads, each in their own sticky and each available for public download:
TR_Data
TR_Mainland
TR_Preview
TR_in-Dev

TR_Data remains unchanged.
TR_Mainland remains unchanged; all of our ('officially') released content.
TR_Preview is all of our unreleased content, Map 6 mess/emptiness, Almalexia; all of it. It is basically a more comprehensive alpha. (Map 6 will need to be cleaned to this end, unfortunately, and perhaps other files as well). If we must, we can even keep calling this TR_Alpha; changing its name might confuse people, for one thing. I just dislike calling it an alpha as it isn't really one in industry terms, at least to my understanding of the term, and I like to be pedantic about pointless stuff like this.
TR_in-Dev is all of our unreleased content as above, but without the areas that are currently being worked on. So say we were to abandon all work outside of the Indoril-Thirr and Old Ebonheart section files. The in_Dev file would then include all unreleased content except for everything contained in those two section files.

Why have TR_Preview? So that by downloading only TR_Data, TR_Mainland and TR_Preview, interested people will have access to a relatively recent version of all of our lands. TR_Preview will be updated regularly, so every, say, 90 days.
Why have TR_in-Dev? So that people with the current WIP files -- so in the above situation the Indoril-Thirr and Old Ebonheart sections files -- will be able to load TR_in_Dev up with those WIPs to get the most up-to-date version of our lands. The only updates that should ever be necessary for TR_in-Dev are splitting off content as new exteriors/sections are opened, as the TR_in-Dev file should never be worked on itself. Nor should TR_Preview as such, for that matter. They are just merges.
If we only had TR_Preview, people with the WIPs would have to clean out a whole mess of stuff from the file to load it along with the WIPs -- effectively if incoveniently creating TR_in-Dev in the process -- or, as is currently the case, will have to download a mess of often conflicting files, some easier to find than others, and load them all up together.
If we only had TR_in-Dev, people unfamiliar with but interested in TR would have to figure out which files to download (not a big deal if there are only a few WIPs to download and we explain it and link them well) and then download them all individually (again, a minor inconvenience, but not unsurmountable). However minor the inconvenience, though, I still think it could form a barrier to people interested in our project, which is what I think we really need to avoid. More to the point, though, we'd be bereft of regular releases to show people aside from the very specific 'there's a new Indoril-Thirr file, folks, check it out!'

So how do we, who are bad at keeping deadlines, keep manually uploading TR_Previews every 90 days which contain our most up-to-date content? Load up TR_in-Dev plus the latest WIP files, check for conflicts (there should be none, if the indvidual files have been cleaned as they should be), merge, double-check for issues, upload. Same approach for creating up-to-date create map files on demand.

A very short and simple version of the above: currently, to create a new alpha, we have to find and merge a bunch of separate files, some of which have seen recent work, others of which haven't been worked on for almost a year if not perhaps longer, into a single file. I simply am suggesting creating a merge of all of the files we are not working on, so that when it's time to create a new alpha we just need to load that one file up with the areas that we have been working on and merge those. No rooting about for the same old files periodically, little or no fear of conflicts, plus several additional benefits through general convenience. Nothing revolutionary.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:37 pm

Swiftoak and I are done for the day. We'll continue restructuring tomorrow.

The forum index now looks more or less as it should, save for the board announcements and a few other such details that can be worked out later, and all of the access and posting permissions have been updated. Tomorrow we will clean out the forums and subforums by archiving old threads and I plan to at least make a new proposal as to what stickies we will need, ideally managing to create drafts for at least some of the stickies as well. Ideally, the TR_in-Dev and TR_Preview merges will be made tomorrow as well, but we shall see.

To hopefully avoid confusion while the restructure is underway, I wrote a news update which I plan to properly post tomorrow. Please do [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25003]check it out[/url].

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 2:03 am

I'm just wrapping up for today. We got less done today as Swiftoak had to go, but the major changes were already made yesterday.

What we've done today:
-[url=http://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/]posted[/url] the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25003]news update[/url] (not sure how many people read those, especially with how long it's been since the last update, but might as well)
-cleaned the map 6 file, compiled the TR_in-Dev merge, compiled a provisional TR_Preview merge. (More on those later).
-cleaned obsolete threads from the Downloads, Testing and Feedback forum, leaving only the stickies.
-[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329306#329306]made a list[/url] of all stickies that will be affected in the next wave of changes. More on that below.

Naturally, especially considering how much was changed in the forum structure, people will find things confusing at first. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them here -- I'll be using this thread for further updates like these -- on IRC or, if you know my address there, over Skype; I'll try to maintain a presence on both, and on Skype I can read messages sent in my absence. As the new stickies are rolled out the forums should become self-explanatory -- more so than they were before, or one of the goals of this restructure will have failed -- but it's never too soon to start gathering feedback and seeing if anything may require adjustment or improvement.

The following are my plans going forward, which may occur in no particular order:[spoiler]-clear out all of the stickies linked in [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329306#329306]the list[/url], which either means archiving them or de-stickifying them. They will all still be readable either way, and they may additionally be linked through the stickies that will replace them.
-if I clear out the stickies from a forum before I post the new ones, I will create a temporary sticky in that forum pointing to the sticky list with a short explanation.
-if I clear out some of the more important stickies, like the major downloads, I'll first post rudimentary stickies with the vital information (in the case of the major downloads including the downloads themselves) to replace them in that forum, and will then edit in a more complete post when it's ready. I don't see myself doing this, but I want to leave my options open.
-put together a full list of stickies that need to be made/updated.
-start working on those stickies in Project Organization, moving them to the correct location when they are ready. This will not have to be done, and probably won't be done, all at once. Stuff like Developer Showcase and Downloads, Testing and Feedback stickies will take priority.
-as a low priority, clearing out The Dumping Ground (this used to be called Website, by the way, but the name was changed for clarity), which includes recovering any files disassociated from their threads as a result of moving claims around.
-as a very low priority, for which there's no hurry at all, archiving more obsolete threads in the forums which have still not gotten the treatment, like Conceptualization.

I'm probably forgetting something, as it's rather late, but those are the priorities for the forum restructure, specifically, as I see them.[/spoiler]Finally, another result of today, though mostly of the Skype Meeting, a list of the new stickies for Downloads, Testing & Feedback:

!!! TR Bug & Error Reporting - all bugs will be reported here. Will include links to past bug-reporting threads. As soon as the file that is causing a particular bug is found out, it will be noted in bold at the top of the post, generally if not by rule by a moderator. As soon as the bug is fixed, I suggest the text of the whole post be rendered grey.
!!! TR Public Feedback - catch-all thread for public feedback. Will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Mainland Download - will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Data Download - will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Preview Download
! TR_InDev Download - while not strictly necessary, I will probably include links to the separate, obsolete files of which this merge consists in spoiler tags or something.

klep · Post by **klep** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:57 pm

An attempt to putting together a list of stickies that need to be made/updated. It's not complete. I've gone through Gnomey's [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=329306]list of stickies[/url] that will be archived or de-stickied to sketch up this list:

News
I agree

Project Organisation
Imo if we do it right this sub forum doesn't need to have any stickies, save the occasional WIP such as the current Provisional Sticky Thread Links.
TR Skype Meeting Summaries is not necessarily organisation. Because we are tackling the organisation intensively atm, most of what we discuss during the Skype meetings is indeed concerning organisation, but this could well be placed in Master Planning. However, in any case I don't really mind so much where this goes.
Forum Rules and Guidelines is on the delete-list. I can see why, but it's never a bad thing to have a set of house-rules by hand imo.
Tutorials Not sure if this is up to date. Does it meet its full potential?

Downloads, Testing & Feedback
It seems this sub forum will be left empty. I'm not at home here, but I believe this will be taken care of by those who do.

Developer showcase
This will also be left empty, but definitely shouldnt be.
How to contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt Should be replaced with something along the lines of Kaziem's proposed sticky Where to Start &...
One single sticky with guidelines for Ext, Int, Quest and Review showcases
Modder Resources Is useful and should not be removed imo, but maybe be merged with a guide to the claim system.

Offtopic
Agree

Master Planning
I'd keep the Maps thread alive. It's relatively new and contains some neat maps, and once we've got ourselves a nice Master Plan going I'm sure we will have updated and more accurate maps. That doesn't mean the maps currently in there are of no use or too outdated to be out there.

Conceptualization
Four Principles of Lore I enjoyed reading that, but maybe it doesnt really need sticky status. In that case, move to Quest and lore sub forums.
Generic dialogue needing work Why de-sticky this?
Guide to NPC Detailing This is a great guide which should not be left to waste. It should definitely be mentioned in the Tutorials sticky.

Concept Art
If not archived but de-sticky'd, I agree.

Literature
The Great Text Overhaul I'm going to have to check if all the to-be-replaced/deleted books actually have been deleted from TR, but it can be de-sticky'd.
This section could use at least a sticky with some guidelines on how to write for TR, which would be a merge of the currently remaining stickies. With some time I might be able make a sketch for it.

Asset Development and all other sub forums
No idea. I trust you.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:38 pm

In the future, I'd like to use The Great Text Overhaul thread to go over our texts again to review what books we still have left to edit or replace.

klep · Post by **klep** » Wed Aug 12, 2015 6:46 pm

Yeti wrote:In the future, I'd like to use The Great Text Overhaul thread to go over our texts again to review what books we still have left to edit or replace.

When [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=326184#326184]listing[/url] TR's books in order to update the [url=http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/Books]TR Books page[/url] over at UESP, I noticed most had been replaced. The few books on the list which hadn't been removed, were then removed by Seneca.
However, there still do remain some books which haven't yet been replaces. I propose to merge the guideline stickies in the Literature forum into 1 and have a writing request sticky as well, which can contain the remaining unreplaced books from the Text Overhaul.

Post by **Gnomey** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 2:43 am

The stickies list just shows the current stickies that will get removed in their current state. Aside from those that will be kept and those that will be replaced, quite a few new ones will also need to be made; often syntheses of several existing (and often redundant) stickies.

I've updated my earlier stickies proposal. Note that the PLANNING and ASSETS sections are very incomplete, and the rest may naturally still require amendment. This time, I've been toying with the idea of all of the modder guidelines being in one place, in Dev Showcase, rather than each being in their respective part of the forums. I'm still not sure what the better option is, in the end.[spoiler]DISCUSSION

News
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25004]!!! TR IRC Chat[/url] - not really news, but I don't want to clutter up Project Organization, where this doesn't fit any better anyway. It's a global, so it doesn't really matter where it is.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24486]!! TR Skype Meeting Summaries[/url] - I feel as though this fits better in news. Do we want this to be a global? my instinct says no, for fear of there being too many globals.

Project Organization
!!! About TR - should contain general information such as a list of the leads+admins, our [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24590]statement of vision[/url], [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19173]responsibilities of modders[/url], etc. Whatever new members ought to know about the project. Leads and admins to whom new members can direct their PMs should have their names hyperlinked. If you're busy or simply don't want to get such PMs, just edit the post to remove the hyperlink. (I think the hyperlinks should not be there by default and people should just add them as they like).
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21914]!!! Forum Rules and Guidelines[/url] - why in the world was this not a global announcement? I personally felt it was still accurate enough in its wording to not require editing and went ahead and made it a global. (Perhaps calling the current number of moderators a 'small army' is a bit of an overstatement, but it can be forgiven as hyperbole).
! Developer Roll-Call - a place for developers -- especially leads -- to post updates on their status, for example if they are going on hiatus or planning to step down.

Downloads, Testing & Feedback
!!! TR Bug & Error Reporting - all bugs will be reported here. Will include links to past bug-reporting threads. As soon as the file that is causing a particular bug is found out, it will be noted in bold at the top of the post, generally if not by rule by a moderator. As soon as the bug is fixed, I suggest the text of the whole post be rendered grey.
!!! TR Public Feedback - catch-all thread for public feedback. Will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Mainland Download - will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Data Download - will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Preview Download
! TR_InDev Download - while not strictly necessary, I will probably include links to the separate, obsolete files of which this merge consists in spoiler tags or something.

Developer Showcase
!!! How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt - this one needs to be updated. It should contain a link to the tutorials sticky, and then a list of the tasks for which one can be promoted in TR and then the guidelines for promotion in spoiler tags (eg. for assets, just start submitting work in the appropriate asset threads and, if we're happy with your contributions, we'll say so and promote upon request). Tasks: exterior dev, interior dev, quester (implementation), scripter, author (literature), modeller, concept artist, sound artist (is there some other term I'm forgetting for this?), reviewer, webmaster (not sure if we still need webmasters; might be a good idea to ask the current webmaster...), organizer (provides meaningful contributions to project organization), writer (constructive contributions to dialogue, quest planning, and discussion in general), tester. Am I forgetting anything?
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=324322#324322]!! Modding Resources[/url] - I took the liberty of upgrading this to an announcement, as I felt it lacked visibility, and renaming it from 'modder resources' to 'modding resources'. I kept overlooking this sticky as I though it was about including resource packs modders have created in TR rather than a resource for TR modders.
!! Tutorials - ideally, as with the old website, the tutorials would be in their own area of the website and we'd only need to link to them through the How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt global, but for now this might as well be an announcement in dev showcase.

Off-Topic
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22546]! Introduce yourself![/url]
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10625]! Members Photos[/url] - not sure if these two need to be stickies, but eh, why not. Their titles are at least short and straightforward.

Administration - to be on the safe side, I'll do this bit in admin, and I'm in no real hurry. Sorry.

Archives
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25005]!! Sticky Thread Links[/url] - the eventual resting place of that sticky, somewhat ironically.

---

PLANNING

Master Planning
!! Master Plan
! Maps

Conceptualization

Quests & Dialogue

---

ASSETS

Concept Art
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=156737#156737]! Off-Topic Concept Art Thread[/url]

Literature
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]!! Writing Requests/Review[/url] - this covers the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23843]great text overhaul[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]writing for claims[/url], and any other writing requests we may come up with. Generally, the first post should be kept updated with requests, including requests for replacement.
! Books from Off-Site - maybe something along these lines for people asking TR to include a fan-work or a book from another TES game, which comes up every now and then.

Asset Development
!! Assets Needed for Morrowind - this is a thread for posting which assets we need and discussing whether we really need them. The assets should not be designed or made here -- they should get their own threads -- and modder resources should not be linked either.
! Asset Apocrypha - a dumping ground for TR assets which have not been properly uploaded on the forums.
! Modder Resources - this is the place to discuss potential modder resources to include in the project.

Audio
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19889]! Useful links/info[/url] - as much as I'm tempted to keep the original title, we don't use the term Sound & Music anymore, so no more S&M for us. I'm thinking of merging this with the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19890]Looking for Recording Software?[/url] thread. Both of these might be extremely outdated, though, so I wouldn't mind if someone familiar with the subject were to update this.

---

SECTION DEVELOPMENT - at the moment, at least, I for leaving these alone, which is why the stickies are missing from the list I made.

---

CLAIMS

Exteriors
-Exterior Claim Proposal Thread

Interiors
-Interior Claim Proposal Thread

Quests
- Quest Claim Proposal Thread - like the other claim proposal threads. Note that quest ideas, which are designed in Quests & Dialogue, should be approved in their respective threads first. Then, a claim description is written that also links to the original discussion thread. That is what gets proposed here.[/spoiler]As for progress with the site clean-up, I've unfortunately made little in the past three days, though hopefully the above will do a little in the way of making up for that.

Edit: Offtopic (and one accidental OffTopic) to Off-Topic and a few other minor corrections.

klep · Post by **klep** » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:48 am

First thing I noticed is that your proposal features 6 globals. We currently have 5 and imo if that should change, there should be less global messages and not more.
Let me go over your list and give my input. Maybe I will end up with 6 globals as well, but I hope to have less.

[spoiler]
DISCUSSION

News
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25004]!!! TR IRC Chat[/url] - I agree this should just stay a global in News.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24486]!! TR Skype Meeting Summaries[/url] - I agree this thread fits better in News, and it should indeed not be a global.

Project Organization
!!! About TR - I fully agree.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21914]!!! Forum Rules and Guidelines[/url] - I guess you have a point there and I can't disagree with you that it should be a global.
! Developer Roll-Call - Sounds about right.

Downloads, Testing & Feedback
!!! TR Bug & Error Reporting - I don't see why this should be a global. People who want to report a bug will most likely go to the sub forums called "Downloads, Testing & Feedback" anyway. This should be an announcement, but not a global one.
!!! TR Public Feedback - Same as above.
I agree with the rest in here

Developer Showcase
!!! How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt - This one indeed requires drastic updating. I don't think you forgot anything here and your proposal for this thread looks great to me.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=324322#324322]!! Modding Resources[/url] - This is a great thread with a lot of useful info, which indeed lacked visibility. Having only 3 stickies instead of 11 should also help here.
!! Tutorials - I think it's good to have a dedicated thread with the title Tutorials in here. It can contain either tutorials in spoilers, in PDF's or links to tutorials in their own area on the forums. I'm not sure which would be best. The 'How to Contribute to TR' global can include a link to this thread.

OffTopic - Personal nitpick: I prefer Off Topic as two separate words.
I agree with you on the content

---

PLANNING
I agree

---

Concept Art
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=156737#156737]! Offtopic Concept Art Thread[/url] - I have no idea why you would want this off topic thread, which is basically a compilation of Imageshack banners, stickied. If any, an (updated?) post in the likes of [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22216][FAQ] The Concept Art department: How we work[/url] should be stickied in here.

Literature
Here should be an announcement with guidelines to writing for TR and posting literature here, such as [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25006]this draft of mine[/url].
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]!! Writing Requests/Review[/url] - I agree with this.
! Books from Off-site - I don't really see the need for a sticky of this type. If such requests happen they can have their own thread imo.

Asset Development
I agree.

Audio
I agree, but don't think we have anyone who is very familiar with this subject around at the moment. Maybe in time.

I also agree to everything else.[/spoiler]

Post by **Gnomey** » Fri Aug 14, 2015 12:30 pm

I think I can agree with making the globals in Downloads, Testing & Feedback announcements. Certainly my main dissatisfaction with my list -- aside from it being incomplete -- was the number of globals.

I'll edit all instances of 'Offtopic' (back) to 'Off-topic'. Swiftoak made the change originally (:P), and I only roughly double-checked and figured writing it as one word may be an acceptable usage. I now see that it isn't.

As far as off-topic concept art is concerned, now that I think of it individual showcases are better suited for that kind of stuff. The reason I kept it is basically the answer to the second question in the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22216]outdated FAQ[/url]. You're also right in that, even if there were an off-topic concept art sticky, it should be a new one, due to that Imageshack nonsense.

As for guideline stickies in CA and Literature, as I wrote in my proposal I'm still unsure whether we should just put all that stuff in the Dev Showcase sticky or have some of it in the individual forums.

I agree that Books from Off-Site is probably unnecessary.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:32 pm

Technical post difficulty, ignore this post

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:08 pm

Updated proposal incorporating klep's feedback as well as feedback from the Skype meeting. I haven't really expanded the earlier proposal, just adjusted what I've already written, so it remains incomplete. However, the globals and download stickies are the most important, and I think we can start on those already. The Planning and Asset sections can wait.

[spoiler]DISCUSSION

News
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25004]!!! TR IRC Chat[/url] - not really news, but I don't want to clutter up Project Organization, where this doesn't fit any better anyway. It's a global, so it doesn't really matter where it is.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24486]!! TR Skype Meeting Summaries[/url] - I feel as though this fits better in news. Do we want this to be a global? my instinct says no, for fear of there being too many globals.

Project Organization
!!! About TR - should contain general information such as a list of the leads+admins, our [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24590]statement of vision[/url], [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19173]responsibilities of modders[/url], etc. Whatever new members ought to know about the project. Leads and admins to whom new members can direct their PMs should have their names hyperlinked. If you're busy or simply don't want to get such PMs, just edit the post to remove the hyperlink. (I think the hyperlinks should not be there by default and people should just add them as they like).
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=21914]!!! Rules and Guidelines[/url] - originally just forum rules, this would also be a good place to put any copyright stuff we agree on.
! Developer Roll-Call - a place for developers -- especially leads -- to post updates on their status, for example if they are going on hiatus or planning to step down.

Downloads, Testing & Feedback
!! TR Bug & Error Reporting - all bugs will be reported here. Will include links to past bug-reporting threads. As soon as the file that is causing a particular bug is found out, it will be noted in bold at the top of the post, generally if not by rule by a moderator. As soon as the bug is fixed, I suggest the text of the whole post be rendered grey.
!! TR Public Feedback - catch-all thread for public feedback. Will include link to past thread.
!! TR_Data Download - will include link to past thread.
!! TR Landmass Downloads - TR_Mainland, TR_Preview and TR_in-Dev. We decided to try out putting these all in one thread. May need a better name. TR_in-Dev section may include links to pre-merge downloads for the heck of it.

Developer Showcase
!!! How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt - this one needs to be updated. It should contain a link to the tutorials sticky, and then a list of the tasks for which one can be promoted in TR and then the guidelines for promotion in spoiler tags (eg. for assets, just start submitting work in the appropriate asset threads and, if we're happy with your contributions, we'll say so and promote upon request). Tasks: exterior dev, interior dev, quester (implementation), scripter, author (literature), modeller, concept artist, sound artist (is there some other term I'm forgetting for this?), reviewer, webmaster (not sure if we still need webmasters; might be a good idea to ask the current webmaster...), organizer (provides meaningful contributions to project organization), writer (constructive contributions to dialogue, quest planning, and discussion in general), tester. Am I forgetting anything?
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?p=324322#324322]!! Modding Resources[/url] - I took the liberty of upgrading this to an announcement, as I felt it lacked visibility, and renaming it from 'modder resources' to 'modding resources'. I kept overlooking this sticky as I though it was about including resource packs modders have created in TR rather than a resource for TR modders.
!! Tutorials - ideally, as with the old website, the tutorials would be in their own area of the website and we'd only need to link to them through the How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt global, but for now this might as well be an announcement in dev showcase.

Off-Topic
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=22546]! Introduce yourself![/url]
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=10625]! Members Photos[/url] - not sure if these two need to be stickies, but eh, why not. Their titles are at least short and straightforward.

Administration - to be on the safe side, I'll do this bit in admin, and I'm in no real hurry. Sorry.

Archives
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25005]!! Sticky Thread Links[/url] - the eventual resting place of that sticky, somewhat ironically.

---

PLANNING

Master Planning
!! Master Plan
! Maps

Conceptualization

Quests & Dialogue

---

ASSETS

Concept Art

Literature
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]!! Writing Requests/Review[/url] - this covers the [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=23843]great text overhaul[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20749]writing for claims[/url], and any other writing requests we may come up with. Generally, the first post should be kept updated with requests, including requests for replacement.

Asset Development
!! Assets Needed for Morrowind - this is a thread for posting which assets we need and discussing whether we really need them. The assets should not be designed or made here -- they should get their own threads -- and modder resources should not be linked either.
! Asset Apocrypha - a dumping ground for TR assets which have not been properly uploaded on the forums.
! Modder Resources - this is the place to discuss potential modder resources to include in the project.

Audio
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19889]! Useful links/info[/url] - merged this with [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=19890]Looking for Recording Software?[/url] Both of these might be extremely outdated, though, so I wouldn't mind if someone familiar with the subject were to update this.

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SECTION DEVELOPMENT - as agreed in the Skype meeting, these will be left alone. They're not too messy anyway.

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CLAIMS

Exteriors
-Exterior Claim Proposal Thread

Interiors
-Interior Claim Proposal Thread

Quests
- Quest Claim Proposal Thread - like the other claim proposal threads. Note that quest ideas, which are designed in Quests & Dialogue, should be approved in their respective threads first. Then, a claim description is written that also links to the original discussion thread. That is what gets proposed here.[/spoiler]

I'll now proceed to create a few high-priority prototype stickies in this sub-forum. Things will be a little messy at first, but hopefully we'll be able to clear them out of this sub-forum soon.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 10:43 pm

Okay! This is what I am seeing as far as what needs to be done for the sticky thread overhaul to be done. Comments welcome, especially from people who work in the specific subsections (quests, etc)

[spoiler]
Discussion

News
[Important] Tamriel Rebuilt Structural Overhaul desticky
TR IRC Chat done

Project Organization
[(a bunch of stickies in development)]
Rules and Guidelines Might need minor updates?
TR Skype Meeting Summaries good
Provisional Sticky Thread Links good
Claim Timeframe/Deadline Rule desticky
Responsibilities of Modders desticky, maybe has good info
UESP Page Maintenance good
Developer Roll-call good
Cleaning up the forums good

Downloads, Testing, and Feedback
TR Bug & Error Reporting good
TR Landmass Downloads good
TR_Data Download good
TR Public Feedback good
Screenshots Thread good

Developer Showcase
How to Contribute to Tamriel Rebuilt Is good, but has links that need updating when the other stickies are done
Modding Resources maybe needs updating
Tutorials maybe needs updating
PLEASE remind us of your showcase if it seems forgotten desticky
Vertex shading, dear exterior modders- read this Should probably be rolled into tutorials or another sticky

Off-Topic
Introduce Yourself good
Member Photos good

Archives
Not included in sticky thread cleanup

The Dumping Ground
Not included in sticky thread cleanup

Planning

Master Planning
[WIP] Master Plan updates in progress as we write the Master Plan
Maps good
The Empire [Faction] good

Conceptualization
Four Principles of Lore desticky
Generic Dialogue needing work desticky
Questions? Ask Them Here! desticky
Ultimate Dialogue Checklist [WIP] desticky
House Indoril, practical considerations for NPCing desticky
Notes on the government in Morrowind desticky
[WIP][Spoilers] Great House Indoril quest line desticky
Monster balancing and heartland desticky
Guide to NPC Detailing desticky or update?
Interview with Ender desticky

Quests & Dialogue
Quests & Dialogue Guidelines update in progress

Assets

Concept Art
Assets Needed for Morrowind good
Offtopic Concept Art Thread good
TR Gallery someone needs to reupdate the TR DA page, but this thread itself can be tossed once a new person takes up the mantle.
Lutemoth Concept Art desticky?
[FAQ]Concept Art Guidelines update in progress
[FAQ] The Concept Art department: How we work desticky

Literature
The Great Text Overhaul desticky
Books TR needs and how to write them desticky
General Information Guidelines and Quality Control desticky
Writing Request/Review Thread for Claims desticky
Guidelines for Writing for TR creation in progress

Asset Development
Modder Resources good
Model Apocrypha good
Nex's Textures desticky
DDS (texturing FAQ) - Texture Website List desticky
CONCEPT ARTISTS: How to work together with our modellers Probably needs some kind of update
Model and Texture Guidelines update in progress

Audio
Useful Links/Informationneeds update

Section Development
Not included in sticky thread cleanup

Claims
Not included in sticky thread cleanup[/spoiler]

Edit: note to self, include About TR as one of the new stickies, also Where to Start.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:08 pm

Off-Topic: new iterations of those threads, probably linking to the old ones, would probably be a good idea. The Off-Topic subforum isn't a big concern either way, though.
Archives: these can be overlooked. Eventually, the only sticky will probably be the 'Provisional Sticky Thread Links' sticky.
Master Planning: I personally think the 'The Empire [Faction]' sticky should just be a normal thread, but it is much broader in scope than the typical faction thread so I wasn't sure whether to bother.
Conceptualization: essentially a dump at the moment. Maybe we can make a thread for videos and interviews? A lot of the other stuff probably belongs in Master Planning and shouldn't be stickied...
Concept Art: agreed on TR Gallery, no idea on Lutemoth's thread either, and agreed for the rest.
Asset Development: right, concept artists: how to work together with our modellers... maybe incorporate into the Concept Art FAQ?
For the rest, I agree that they should be destickied, as long as the actual useful information is carried over. As I already have the provisional stickies thread in place, they can be destickied at any time. My only question would be if we think new members would have a harder time with too few stickies or too many stickies with conflicting and outdated information.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:42 am

In terms of stickies, I vote for leaving old stickies up until we have a new sticky ready to go. The ideas is to hopefully have these all done before we have our next surge of excitement, anyway.

(I also replaced the two off topic sticky threads. Yay, not fifteen pages long any more!)

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:09 pm

I got fed up with the forum software and bumped my "what are we supposed to do with all the stickies" post into google docs.

So here it is!

I went through and noted every sticky according to the current sticky threads and also Gnomey's old sticky thread list, then color coded them with what needs to happen to them, as far as I can tell.

Post by **Gnomey** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:01 pm

Issue:

I'm somewhat dissatisfied with the new Misc TR Topics subforum; it is by design ill-defined, and encourages people to just post there if they're not sure where a topic should go, even if the topic actually fits within the scope of an existing subforum. That in turn means that topics will be harder to find, as they will not be posted in their respective subforums where one would expect to find them, instead being dumped into the same spot as completely unrelated topics.

Alternatives:

If there are threads which don't fit anywhere else on the forum, I'd rather the issue be brought up here and we decide to either broaden the scope of an existing subforum or add a new one. If it is unclear to a poster if the thread fits within the scope of a particular subforum, I'd rather the poster just bring it up and we either adjust the subforum description to clarify the scope of the subforum or find a better place for the thread.
Of course, another possibility is that we especially set up the Misc TR Topics subforum so that people who are unsure where a topic should go can post the topic there so that we can move it to the correct location, in which case the name and description should be changed to match that purpose. I don't really think that would be worthwhile, though.

Topic categorization:

As I see it, the threads that have been posted there so far fit into three categories:

Tamriel Rebuilt Mods - mods designed to work with Tamriel Rebuilt, like [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25091]The Tamriel Rebuilt Museum[/url]
Project Organization - [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25121]The TR website - Input required[/url] and [url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25120]Using other video chat for the meetings[/url]; I felt that both of these clearly fit in the Project Organization subforum.
[url=http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25112]Link to LondonRook's Twitch stream.[/url] - this one doesn't appear to be related to TR, and as such fits into the Off-Topic subforum.

Possible solutions:

Now the first category is indeed hard to place; the closest existing subforum it could work in would be Downloads, Testing & Feedback, but the description of that subforum does not currently lend itself to that purpose. So I think we could either expand the description, or create a new subforum. (That is, rename Misc TR Topics and give it a new description).

There's another category which could or could not fit in there as well: project promotion. Basically, if people create videos about TR or stuff like that. Currently, that sort of stuff would probably go in Off-Topic or, again, Downloads, Testing & Feedback -- preferably the latter -- but perhaps those would not be the best places for it.
There's also another category, project collaboration, which currently goes in Project Organization, but could also be considered for placement elsewhere. (I personally think I'm happy with the current placement, though).

So I do think we could consider a new subforum called either something like TR Mods, TR Mods and Promotion or TR Mods, Promotion and Collaboration.

Post by **Anonytroll** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:43 pm

Just throw out the entire forum categorisation and start again? It's really an option right now, so go for it.

Incidentally, I thought the Misc TR topics was actually one of the better defined forums - I wouldn't have known where uncategorized discussion would have gone otherwise.

Post by **Gnomey** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:46 am

I'm all for it, but a new categorization would need to be advanced first. I'm not sure if I could come up with an alternative that's much better than the current (already improved from the former) categorization.

On the whole, I prefer not having a place for uncategorized discussion, as I think it just messes with the structure of the rest of the forum. I'd rather every discussion fit into a subforum, and if it doesn't that we add a subforum to fit it.
As such, to me the fact that the Misc TR Topics forum was created indicates one of two things -- or probably both: we lack a subforum for certain topics, or the current subforum descriptions are not clear enough.
Any improvement to subforum descriptions so that it's easier for posters to figure out where to post their topics would be very much welcome, whether we go with a new categorization or keep the old one. The main issue with descriptions is that they should be kept short, which makes it hard to make them clear and comprehensive.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:32 pm

I vote that if someone posts something in the Misc forum which should be somewhere else, move the thread to the right forum and make a note in the thread.

Then, if needed, update the descriptions of the other forums.