The Master NPC LIst

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:24 pm

Hey everyone! I have started a massive undertaking that I think will possibly kill me before I ever get it done; but I wanted to make you guys aware so you know what's going on.

I'm working on a Google Doc that is going to list every(!) NPC added by TR by location. It will also give the basics - Name, location, race, faction, and a short description of that NPC. This will greatly help us with questing, as TR will eventually move out of location-to-location questing and will focus a bit more on some province-wide quests. It will also help with creating dialogue because it gives a broader sense of direction if some NPCs reference other NPCs who perhaps belong to the same guild or house who may be on the other side of the province. At the present, I believe it is very hard to do this since there is no definitive list of NPCs and it can get kind of hard to have to try and find a certain NPC so you can reference them either in dialogue or involve them in a quest.

This will hopefully make it quicker and easier to use as a reference in the future. Any ideas are appreciated!

Sparts · Post by **Sparts** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 4:15 pm

tes3cmd and knowledge of regex can automate a lot of that. Were I you, I'd familiarize myself with using it.

10Kaziem · Post by **10Kaziem** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 7:46 pm

Ask Seneca37, he does automation.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 8:52 pm

Good idea! However, the description part cannot be automated; so that'll still be the killer. But it'll be worth it in the end.

ihavefivehat · Post by **ihavefivehat** » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:02 pm

I noticed that the UESP already has that information, including descriptions, for a large amount of NPCs. (Especially in the Telvanni lands)

[url]http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes3Mod:Tamriel_Rebuilt/People[/url]

Not · Post by **Not** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:29 pm

I'm sorry, but I don't really think this is such a good idea. I mean, it sounds good in theory, but the end result is just not worth it, especially when considering the amount of effort going into it. TR won't be doing province wide quests for quite a while (a few years at least.) Secondly, when we do finally get to that point, from a quester's stand point, it shouldn't take anymore than 5 minutes (tops) to find a suitable reference NPC; whether it's from the other side of the province or a town over.

It will also help with creating dialogue because it gives a broader sense of direction if some NPCs reference other NPCs who perhaps belong to the same guild or house who may be on the other side of the province. At the present, I believe it is very hard to do this since there is no definitive list of NPCs and it can get kind of hard to have to try and find a certain NPC so you can reference them either in dialogue or involve them in a quest.

If you really want to go through with this, then I would suggest doing the more important NPCs. Perhaps recruiters and faction heads, maybe a few prominent members of local communities or something, but even then I don't really see much need for this anyhow.

However, the description part cannot be automated; so that'll still be the killer. But it'll be worth it in the end.

Most NPCs would just be there as fluff anyway with generic dialogue, so there really wouldn't be any need for a description unless you wanted to copy paste something along the lines of "bystander of ______ faction," but again, I don't really see the need for this. Let's say I'm making a Fighter's Guild quest for Baan Malur and the quest giver will send you to Port Telvanni or Dres branch (I'm throwing random ideas out, I'm not even sure if those branches will even exist,) the first thing I'd do is look for any NPC of the local FG or w/e faction I'm trying to reach via those settlements and choose any NPC or just create a new one on the spot. For that reason, I just don't see the need for this list at all.

On the other hand, if you wanted to make a much shorter list of the more important NPCs like the Alma Rula of the temple or the Head Patriarch for the temple faction as well as other faction heads, then go for it. But even then, I'd like to think that the quest claimer in question would know enough about said NPCs before claiming and writing dialogue that would be super important for them.

Post by **Seneca37** » Tue Jan 12, 2016 10:36 pm

I've had the same idea. DO NOT DO THIS BY HAND. I can automate the whole process.
I've held off on this only because I am not that familiar with how the dialog/questing is implemented in the esp/esm files yet. But I'll get there.

I do think it is important to know what NPCs are doing what. And I do hope that we'll be doing province wide questing SOON. House Indoril is almost done, and I would really like to see us COMPLETE this before moving on to other areas so that the MW community has something to really do. Misc quests are fine, but are trivial and can be added at any time to the game.

Not · Post by **Not** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:33 am

Seneca37 wrote:I've held off on this only because I am not that familiar with how the dialog/questing is implemented in the esp/esm files yet. But I'll get there.

I do think it is important to know what NPCs are doing what.

As I said before; if you want to do that, by all means go for it, but from a quester's point of view, this isn't as useful as you might think. This isn't LGNPC; most NPCs are going to be there for fluff and decoration with the primary focus of any settlement/area/region being generic dialog. If you want to start making province wide quests that take you to other areas, then by all means go for it, but referencing other NPCs is as simple as finding a random NPC in the area you want the player to end up in and editing the dialogue or else just making a new NPC entirely. If you want to do this for important NPCs like faction heads or recruiters or something, then go for it, that could be useful, but doing this for every NPC in the game is just....well I guess as long as it's not me, have at it. I just don't see the use in it really.

And I do hope that we'll be doing province wide questing SOON. House Indoril is almost done, and I would really like to see us COMPLETE this before moving on to other areas so that the MW community has something to really do. Misc quests are fine, but are trivial and can be added at any time to the game.

The reason we implement misc quests is BECAUSE they can be added at any time to the game while faction quests are NOT as simple. TR constantly changes; settlements get renamed, ideas get scrapped, refined and added all the time. Nevermind the constantly changing lore. The reason we're not focusing on faction quests and shouldn't be for a long time is because of the development process. We have all these changing ideas. For example, I did the entire TG quest line for Helnim, but all that is axed, same with countless other faction quests because things change.

I understand it's how TR works and everything constantly changes, so I don't mind really, but other developers can and have gotten very offended when their hard work has to go to waste. Even now, I'm working on a plan to salvage the Akamora Fighter's Guild, but that's just one of many. Most are going to be changed entirely. Faction quests should not be implemented at all until the TR landmass is complete. THIS is why I want to get the Dres exteriors out the door and made so that we'll be that much closer to faction implementation.

Tl;dr
We can add misc quests here and there that take you outside the local settlement where you received the quest, and have you visit other areas, but faction quests should be put on hold indefinitely. You can't make province wide faction quests when roughly 2/3 of said province is incomplete.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:45 am

I can understand the hesitation, however I do think it's important to have for clarification's sake as well. I don't like the idea of not knowing what NPCs are present in which cities. But also at this point it is simply far too hard (read; cumbersome) to do any MEANINGFUL dialogue or quest writing because either we have to hop in-game to see what NPC's are where, or hop into the CS, and honestly the CS just doesn't give a very good representation of NPC's as in their role in the world, and it is also still very slow. This document will be useful for future planning and organization. It will obviously take some time, however sceneca I would be more than happy to hold off on this and wait to help you out so we can collaborate on this.

In the end I think it will be worth it to have, and it will make it easier to create meaningful/interesting NPC's in the future. At the present, TR is sorely lacking in memorable NPC's that the player will continually look for/feel nostalgic about (there are a few, but considering the size of TR it's few and far between) and even at the present a lot of important/higher-up NPC's don't have much flavor to them or serve much of a purpose (not to bash anyone it's just that TR is a very different project now than it was back in the day, since the problem is most prevalent in Telvannis and a bit of map 3). To combat this, I think having a list of NPC's that can be easily sorted by either a hierarchical importance or by location will make it easier for us to conform to a mold that will make creating any type of NPC in the future a lot more fluid and also more creative. Take my template for instance:

Character Proposal

Name: Zalindwier Kostus
Location: Old Ebonheart Castle

Characterization:

- Imperial from The Imperial City who got involved in the Emperor's liege and was a sort of adviser to Moth Priests and chaplains in the court.

- Got sent to Old Ebonheart years ago as a councilor of the current Knights of The Imperial Dragon, trying to use diplomacy to gain foothold in various parts of Morrowind's socio-economic chess board. Has an inherit dislike of Dunmer in general, more so if they are part of a House or native Tong.

Character Traits:

- Helpful in disclosing Imperial agenda to some degree, so long as the PC is not part of a House or native Tong. Will have slight disposition drop for Dunmer.

- Sort of a 'Flinn half empty' kind of character, after so many years in service to politics he is somewhat jaded and un-amused by typical banter. Has probably had to deal with a lot of cry-baby issues in the past, but is also very knowledgeable in the art of subtlety, so it makes him a good person to make the final call on numerous 'important' decisions.

- May offer falsified information to most PC's who are not in some higher rank of the Legion or Cult. Not outright lying, but more so misdirecting the eyes and ears of most people. EX: Could tell the player the legion is working on a new base in X location but it is really in Y location, and X location is some old Indoril ruin or perhaps it leads to some dangerous cave.

Role in the World: To help progress ties between Dunmer and Imperials; despite not trusting just any Dunmer, he will have respect for the ones in positions of power such as King Helseth, Dren brothers, etc etc. May be a possible target of Dagoth Ur as well? May also give quests to PC at some point and will be able to tell PC about most places in Old Ebonheart so long as the player is not a member of any House or native Tong.

Dialogue Examples:

Quote:
Old Ebonheart Castle: You're in the congregation hall now. This is where I and those I console meet to discuss numerous things. Some good, some bad, and some to be determined. Down the hall to the left is the cult shrine, and if you head right you'll be in the southern tower staircase. One floor up is the chambers of the Court of Respite; the level below us is the infirmary.

King Helseth: He is a seasoned mer, certainly. Even from Wayrest, he could raise an army to his needs from the Imperial City. There is a clout of rumors that surrounds him, and hearsay usually stems from some sort of truth. But what man or mer hasn't dirtied their hands on the tremulous climb to the top of a hierarchy? You can find him in the Mourning Hold of Almalexia, but good look getting a court with him.

Eadwyre: Hail the Forlorn King of Wayrest. His presence is still felt along the banks of the Bjoulsae. He was truly an Imperial sponsor for the west. How he died is still an open case in Wayrest, but everyone keeps their lips sealed about the matter. Certainly, it must be a...sensitive subject for most people. Like striking a nerve ending with a hammer kind of sensitive.

Someone Particular: If you want to see the Duke you'll have to catch a boat to Vvardenfell. Kulgrosh gro-Wryntor is the head of the bodyguards for the Imperial Commissioner; he's got a temper the length of a goblins tooth, but he's also as loyal as they come. Cunus Pompus is the East Empire Company's best footman, though he's currently out on business in Firewatch. Grand Factor (name) has a manor just beside the bridge leading to the castle. The list goes on; but those are some of the more important people.

I think that we should do something like this for nearly every NPC; of course commoners or shop keeps wouldn't have to be as detailed, but it would help flesh them out from the get-go. I feel like dialogue will cadence into this type of structure quickly, however, and we will simply get more quality out of our NPC's.

Not · Post by **Not** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:24 am

Like I said, if you want to do this, then go for it. I admire the effort and the passion that you're putting forth, I'm just worried that it won't be as much help as you might think and I don't want you to be disappointed if that turns out to be the case. On the other hand, I've always been a pessimist so there is that too.

Also, I like the format you have and I think it's pretty spot on. However, for implementing the dialogue for each NPC is just....well I can't agree with it. If you want to write it out as suggestions, then I'll support that. But trying to have every NPC minus commoners and shop keepers have unique dialogue like this is just not feasible. It would overwhelm questers because we'd have to sift through so much dialogue to input what we want for the correct NPC in question. There's a reason why vanilla Morrowind didn't do this with too many NPCs. Yes, there should be more interesting NPCs throughout TR, especially given it's size. But I can't agree with making it like that for every single NPC that's not a commoner or shop keeper. We're not LGNPC and from a quest developers point of view this would hurt us more than help us.

So yes, we should definitely have more interesting NPCs and I think that's something we should work on, but let's not do it for every single NPC minus commoners and shop keepers. Generic dialogue is super important but I don't know how to stress or explain that to someone that doesn't understand how dialogue works. Generic dialogue is essential and is something that TR needs to improve on big time. It's the backbone to NPCs and the flow of the game.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:24 am

Sorry, commoners or shop keeps was meant to imply the 'filler' NPCs as a whole. This template would be more or less used only for important people, quest givers, faction people, etc. But it could still be used for any NPC, just as far as the dialogue it could be as simple as stating they will have generic dialogue options only. And I agree, TR's generic dialogue needs a lot of work. Which is why I started Topics of Tamriel, and it still hasn't been utilized, soooo that's not my fault.

Not · Post by **Not** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:29 am

Well, I don't know if you remember Bloodthirsty Crustacean's dialogue for Helnim that he made several years ago. He made it to where every NPC had unique and interesting dialogue and it was an absolute nightmare to sift through. arvisrend and myself spent days reviewing and going over stuff that should have taken a few hours at most to do because there was so much stuff to sift through. That's why I want it limited to important NPCs and not everyone.

Also, while I stand by what I said before about not really seeing much use for this outside possibly compiling a list of potentially less generic NPCs, if you were to make a list of the special NPCs of the other province mods and their dialogue on top of TR's, THAT would be unimaginably helpful on so many levels.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:33 am

I'll see, maybe me and sceneca can muster something up. It is important we keep themes coherent throughout P:C and SHOTN.

klep · Post by **klep** » Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:06 pm

I like the idea and hope that you guys can work something out, including dialogue. Should also give a clear overview of outdated generic dialogue. Will be very useful imo.

Yeti · Post by **Yeti** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:05 pm

I'm currently revising most of SHOTN's dialogue and NPCs at the moment (it's been a slow process), but I could post notable ones and dialogue examples if that's considered helpful.

Ironed Maidens · Post by **Ironed Maidens** » Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:31 pm

Of course, Yeti! Also feel free to ask me if you want any help with re-writing any of the dialogue.