More Logic in TR

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:47 am

I believe that we should include some puzzles and riddles in TR, and I mean hard ones. Make them like in the Myst series.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:09 am

I love those games, especially the graphical style of them, MW and the myst games have always looked kind of similar to me.

Maybe not as hard as some of those, that oriental theme park age was too damn hard, even for me(I think in the strange ways needed for myst games

)

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:40 am

excellent idea. bring on the puzzle and riddle scripts! I'm done with being some dunmer noble's gopher-boy. Test my brains, man!

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:23 pm

You mean the mechanical age? Yeah, it was hard to find how to rotate the buildings. I always thought the sound age with the rocket ship to be hard, espically getting there. I always liked Riven better. More people and it has many different paths.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:29 pm

Ok Morden, here is a riddle for you that would be good for the style of Morrowind.

You approach two guards, each guarding one door. You know that one always tells lies and one always tells the truth. One door leads to paradise, and the other, let's just say, leads to an endless pit, so you want the good door. You get to ask on yes or no question to both of the guards in order to find out who is the liar and who speaks the truth. What would that question be?

Congo · Post by **Congo** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:46 pm

that wouldn't work man because the liar would just lie and say he's honest so he doesn't need to enter the door. the honest gaurd would be honest and not enter the door. see this is an anceint paradox. The answer is quite simple... you ask which door the other gaurd would tell you is the door to paradise and then enter the other door. See the honest gaurd would know that the other guard would lie and he would say that the other guard would tell you to enter the door to the endless pit. The liar would know that the honest gaurd would send you to the correct door, but he lies so he'd tell you that the other gaurd would send you down the door to heck aswell. It's quite simple

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:22 am

I'm never good with puzzles. I wouldn't be able to go anywhere. Of course, I could just save and try the choices until I get them right

. But of course, there could be sort of a penalty for getting them wrong that I'd be willing to face. For example in FFX-2 there's and area where there is an energized gate that if you walk through it without solving the puzzle, you get attacked. If you solve the puzzle, the energy barrier vanishes. If you defeat the enemy though, you can pass also

. That gives complete morons like myself the ability to get these things as well.

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 5:03 am

Hmmm arena had sorta puzzles, like riddles more like it... I think they were placed intricately in places that were really ancient, and hence had a mythical quality of them, hence the riddles worked, so I like the riddle idea, but not all over the place

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 12:18 pm

But Congo, that's not exactly yes or no answers, now is it?

Nah, and by the way, I actually think the question was too easy, what with allowing you to ask both of the guards a question.
I bet I could get to paradise by asking just ONE of the guards ONE question.

You approach one of the guards, and asks him the following question: "If I asked you if this is the door to paradise, would you say yes?".
If the answer is yes - enter. If it's no - for heavens sake, take the other door!

How? Suppose that the door you picked actually is the correct one. The honest guard says yes, no further explanation needed. The liar now has a dilemma. If I just had asked him if the door was the correct one, then of course he would say no, what with being a liar and all that. But I didn't, I asked him if he would say yes. The correct answer would be no, but with him being a compulsive liar, he has to say yes. Same same but different for the other door.

Double negations, people.

Anyway, I love solving riddles and puzzles, and would love to see more of it in Morrowind! But it has to be of some other kind than this one, because if you can't write the question yourself, you just need to pick the correct alternative and that's... well... just too darn easy to be fun?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:19 pm

*lol* Well, of course, my mistake. But you see, it's called "dubbla negationer" in swedish, so... Well, you can figure out the rest I'm sure.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:26 am

Yes, double negative. The answer is "if I asked the other guard if his door lead to paradise, what would he say?" Say paradise is behind the truth teller. He knows the liar will lie and say that his door leads to paradise, so he will tell the truth and say that the liar would say his door leads to paradise. When you ask the liar, he knows the door is behind the truth teller. The truth teller will say his door leads to paradise, so the liar will lie and say that the truth teller will say his door does not lead to paradise. Therefor, whoever both negatives go for, they have paradise behind them. Kind of confusing, eh?

I was thinking that we should make something part of the main main quest or one of the province main quests.

In Riven, (WARNING: SPOILERS AHEAD FOR RIVEN) you find certain sounds, animals, and symbols throughout the game. You have no idea what the mean, until you find a device that reveals numbers as the symbols. With these you can solve the big puzzles.

In Tamriel Rebuilt, we can make a Dwemer ruin with a puzzle leading to a very important part. In order for the player to solve this puzzle, he or she must decode the Dwemer code that goes along with the puzzle. To do this, we could make books that allows the player to decifer code on his or her own. But, of course, even the easiest parts of the Myst games can't be easy, so we would have to hide it.

Also, in Myst, you have to use all resources you have. Just about everything has a purpose. It is impossible, of course, to have everything in TR have a purpose, but there is no need.. For example, on Myst island, you must use everything there. This can help the player in a way since when he or she is out of thinkable options, he or she can try what they didn't think of. I will try to come up with an outline for a puzzle idea so you can see what I mean.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 2:56 am

I have another one:

You are on a bear hunt. From your camp, you go ten miles south, then ten miles east and you find a bear and kill it. Then you go ten miles north and you are back to where you started from. What color is the bear?

av01d · Post by **av01d** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 6:02 am

WHITE!!!!

cause ur at the north pole

are there even polar bears in tamriel?

Prowler · Post by **Prowler** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 4:23 pm

Well I've seen some pepole on solstheim running around in white armour that was pretty good against frost.

Riddle: How can you drop an unboiled kwama egg one meter whit out breaking it?

Anyway check the books of riddles, some good ones are in it. TIL has some riddles aswell.

Just dont over do the logic though, not every one is that smart.

av01d · Post by **av01d** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 5:31 pm

drop it in water!!!!

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Thu Feb 12, 2004 8:41 pm

Yes, a polar bear. I never liked the riddles in Morrowind, except for the ones in Mt. Kand.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 2:59 am

the door riddle was in one of the elder scrolls games(i think it was battlespire) it would be nic to see it again. also if anyone has redguard, that had alot of puzzles i think, could be a good source of inspiration.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 6:10 am

Originally posted by Legolas55
I believe that we should include some puzzles and riddles in TR, and I mean hard ones. Make them like in the Myst series.

Myself being an avid fan of myst, I was actualy thinking about it myself....

Well what kind of puzzles do you want? like "hangman from riven" wich you can solve in 10 min if you have an agile mind or "fire fly puzzle from Uru" also known as "The worst 4 hours I spent AFTER i went online and was told how to do it.... yeh its THAT BAD"

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:44 pm

The hangman puzzle was not really a puzzle, but a tool to understand the big puzzle. I guess it may have been confusing to understand, oh well.

Speaking of Myst and Riven, is there any way could have the linking or trap books in TR, or would it be copyright. It would be awsome to open a book and be instantly transported to another place, or lore someone into a trap book.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 8:48 pm

It is doable in several ways, but it isn't something that we would add to TR.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:04 pm

If you haven't played Myst, books are the method of transportation. A civilization called the D'ni has the power to write books with vivid detail about a place. They believe that they "link" to these places, which are called ages, rather than create them. Then there a books called prison books, which are imcomplete links to ages, leaving you trapped in oblivion, yet each prison book can only hold one person. In Riven, one of your two tasks is to trap this man's father who was the mad dictator of the D'ni. In TR, rather than killing someone, you could trap them in a prison book, which is in a way worse than killing someone because they will have to spend the rest of their life in total darkness with nothing around. Even worse, burning the books would make it impossible to be released from oblivion.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:36 pm

Thats what i meant, the hangman puzzle taught you the #, for the "rebel Age" puzle.....

As for linking books, i believe that would be intelectual property of Cayan Worlds, please noticethe "R" sighns on top of things like D'ni, myst, etc. Unfortunatly intelectual property lasts for almost eternity, (50 years + life of the author) and since Myst series produced books on the subject, we have to wait for roughly year 2142 before these names go to public domain.

Unless TR employs assasins for such accasions.

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Sat Feb 14, 2004 11:49 pm

Yeah...that's what I figured. I don't think we want the books that much to hire assasins, or wait for 140 years.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:05 am

Legolas: Yes, thats what i figured....plus the law is kind-of hazy on intelectual property when companies are conserned, cos if it the lifetime of the company.... could be an indefinete wait........and if we hire hitmen, its gonna be bloody.

Actualy I heard some were: its 7 years for a 'discontinued' soft. project, but cyan world releace a gama every 2 years + Myst books throw a monkey wrench into the entire equation.

Blademand: Unfortenatly 2-3 years ago new laws were pased to protect partial copiright infrigments.

Think of it this way: Idea of linking books in TR has to be expresed in such a way that there is no doubt that we would have thought of this idea our selves if it wasnt copirighted by Cyan Worlds already.

While we on the subject of Copiright:
You people are ofcourse that "Swords of Morrowind mod" contains desighns + names of copirighted material?

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 12:22 am

Either way, we shouldn't take the chance.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 1:25 am

Legolas: are we still talkig about Myst books here?

Blademand: Its true, the most obvious eg, is "Gimli's Axe". The rest including Blade of Darkness, etc are collector pieces, and were produced by artist smiths in limited ammounts:

Check out "http://www.weaponmasters.com/" (this is ONE of MANY shops that sell them) for exact listing of weapons. Although the person who created them is good, unfortinatly he/she did not think of desighns or names..... IT could be used to our advantage through: We could put a disclaimer insede the "read me" stating that the following objects are intelectual property of whatever,

Legolas55 · Post by **Legolas55** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:27 am

Um..I'm kind of lost here. I just think that we shouldn't take the chance of copyright for something that is not essential to TR. For example, the guys who started TR got the right from Bethesda to use their stuff. They had to, since it is such a big mod.

Xerox · Post by **Xerox** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:32 am

i agree, but there are people who we'll be unhappy namly the designer of that Sword Mod. I'm also proposing an oppotunity to utulise the Law and the good mods for our advantage.