The Ordinators - joinable

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:37 am

This has been a personal projeckt of mine since before I joined TR(but had heard of it). At that time I was just coming into the greater understanding of lore, and was very interested. Having seen some botched attempts of Mods that allowed you to become or wear Ordinator Armor I was disappointed and decided that I was going to do it properly. I put the project on hold when I joined TR.

Now, knowing alot more then I did, and having a great community to draw information from and learn, I feel I am ready to start on it again. At the time I had already decided that it would be compatable as possible with TR. It needs to be right in there with House Indoril and the Tribunal Temple. It could be made as a bolt on but it wouldn't be nearly as great, so my question is could this be done for TR as part of the main esm.

Here are things that it would feature:

Alot more added in regards to dialog and lore regarding them, other than samefaced holy warriors. The four Orders will be better established, only the Order of the Watch(some Order of War near Ghostgate) was apparent on Vvardenfell which makes sense. This will establish their offices and leaders.

Dunmer PC will be allowed to join if they have some required skills and is a certain rank in the Temple. He/she cannot be a member of any Imperial Factions(baring blades as they are not apparent), and will not be allowed if in a certain stage of the MQ.

Once being allowed, the PC will go to a kind of bootcamp or academy. There he/she will learn Temple Doctine, and spend time in training. Everything with be very orderly, and the trainies will not be allowed to leave the compound(facing expulsion, although there could be a few interesting quests if u are not caught), you must wake and attent training, it will not be to mundane but enought for the PC to sense they are not in full control of their freedom as they usually are. He/She will go through several trails and stages, until they are eventually finished.

When finished the PC will be a member of the Order of War. The other Orders wouldn't likely be as fun(maybe Order of the Watch), unless someone wants to offer some suggestions for them. As a member of the War Ordinators there will be several quests to clear out Daedric Ruins. You will be stationed to various places and will stay with a group of Ordinators that will move from place to place cleancing the area.

You will eventually rise in Rank to be incharge of the Order of War, and will consult with the other Orders and will do the Alma Rula's bidding, which will usually also be that of the Tribunal.

Alot more will go into this other than letting you wear Indoril Armor, which is what most of the other mods were about. You are a Soldier of the Tribunal, you will spend most of your time in their service, and your reward is their grace and your own faith.

Comments are welcome. I am still coming up with alot more that I haven't been able to put here yet. If rejected I will still try to make it a plugin, and will still help write alot of the Lit that will go with it.

Post by **Kevaar** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:44 am

Yes, yes, yes! I would also make to like to see a similiar thing done for the Buoyant Armigers. Their light-hearted view of life and that of the serious Ordinators might be an interesting thing to exploit (or give mention of) in a few of the quests.

Reading more into your ideas--I think you may be being a bit strict on the Dunmer-only thing. I think its not that non-Dunmer aren't allowed into the Temple, its just that they rather not be one of the Temple. Dunmer can be quite intimdating when it comes to religious beliefs, especially if you're an outlanders coming with Imperial religious beliefs in mind. You'd have to talk to a lore-master on this though, I only pretend to be knowledgeable

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:52 am

I understand this, and trust me, this is different. They are very strict. Only way a non-dunmer might get in is after they are named Nerevarine and accepted by the Temple, and in that case they are there to make the changes to the Temple, which may not need them to join.

Problem is that the Buoyant Armigers are mostly Vvardenfell based I believe, so it couldn't be part of TR main. But if we make this for TR, I will make and include quests for this on Vvardenfell, and it would be cool to mix them in as well, as a bolt-on of course though.

Psyborg · Post by **Psyborg** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:59 am

YES! If for no other reason, the helmet is the coolest in the game (perhaps only beside the glass one)

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:04 am

Also, you will not be able to become a High Ordinator, they are for Mournhold exclusively and I am not sure if they belong to any Order, but if they do it would be the Order of the Watch. The Hands i am not even sure if they count as Ordinators, they only report to Almalexia herself, not like the rest who report to the Alma Rula.

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:22 am

Brilliant as usual...it certainly gets my vote because it fits all the puzzle peices...if im not mistaken there is an ordinator training camp already in the works outside of Almalexia (if my memory does not fail me) and also because the ordinators/Buoyant Armigers have such a serious role in all of tamriel requiring incredible amounts of patience and dedication....

Sounds great to me...i dont think it breaks lore and i must agree with Keevar on the issue of dunmer-only membership...however you sound confident in your explanation...so ill give it to ya

-BM

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:27 am

Really, I hadn't heard of it. It would need to be set up in such a way that it would be hard for the PC to escape. Basically while there he is in constant training, if he/she leaves the grounds for anything other than an exersice he/she is expelled. Also if they miss a certain amount of classes same thing.

I know that there will be a kinda HQ in Almalexia, and of course the Alma Rula, who is incharge of the Temple and the Four Orders report to him/her.

BalinMinister · Post by **BalinMinister** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:51 am

Hmm...well i cant say for sure that it will be there all i remember is that there was a thread about a cell taht was placed outside of Almalexia that contained an Ordinator Training Facility but several people objected by saying that the Alma Rula and the actual training should be done in Almalexia

So it could be scraped or it could be added.....someone who has some knowledge about exteriors please clarify

-BM

Morden · Post by **Morden** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 8:58 am

I vote yes, for what its worth. I believe the potential for great storytelling is the strongest aspect of this proposed faction. I'm sure all our great writers in the Lit forum would love to explore the inner workings of the Ordinators.

Nomadic1 · Post by **Nomadic1** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 11:03 am

I love the idea

But no Bouyant Armigers - they are the personal army of Vivec and are based almost exclusively on Vvardenfell (mainly at Ghostgate and Molag Mar if memory serves correctly). That Ordinator training base should never have been scrapped IMO; it would have been perfect for this. Oh well, in the past. There need to be some good, non-Imperial guilds and so forth in TR and this could be one of them.

G.M.K. · Post by **G.M.K.** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 2:29 pm

Yes as long as it's in lore this is a great idea. I think non dunmer should be able to join but should have a harder time advancing (they could have to do extra quests with no reward). For the quest strcture there should be a quest giver for ever order plus the alma rula and a trainer for when you're low ranked.

Nazz · Post by **Nazz** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 3:48 pm

Looks like we have enough yes votes here so I will put my support behind this idea as well.

There does need to be one extra requirement to joining the Ordinators though, the player should have to be a certain rank within one of the 5 Great Houses since all Ordinators come from one of the Houses.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:40 pm

My only conjecture is, it should be PAINFULLY difficult, like the boot instructor giving you an escpecially hard time, and having to "prove your worth" to even go into training - YOU ARE AN OUTLANDER. 80% OF DUNMER HATE OUTLANDERS.
It should be the smae thing with house indoril.
and with house dres... I personally think it should be near impossible to join them, maybe even starting out as a slave.
Otherwise, making the ordinators joinable should DEFINITLEY be part of the main mod.

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Sun Jul 18, 2004 10:43 pm

Since Nazz supports it, I do as well.

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:57 am

My vote isn't worth much, but I'm all for it, as BalinMinister said, all the pieces fit, it's waterproof.

And of course I'd be happy to help out if you ever need other people to work on it.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 8:26 am

I still have a few things to work out. The most important issue is making is making sure the PC feels like they are dedicated or need to be. This is going to be hard. You typically don't see Ordinators wandering on their own, that is because they are devout to the Tribunal and are ever serving them. If they are out and about they are doing something for the Temple.

We should try as much as possible to make this hold true for the PC. He/She must be constantly vigilant to the Order, and we need a way for him/her to do that. I am open to ideas, I have considered a few but more certainly wouldn't hurt.

Also you may never be able to rise to the highest rank of your Order, I am still considering this, but understand that if the PC joins this faction, it isn't about reaching the top, it is about the service(and should feel that way as well).

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 11:39 am

So let me get this straigth. You want the player to be at the Temple's service all the time.

Indeed, Ordinators never wander off on their own, but if the player still wants to quest for the Fighter's Guild, unravel the MQ etc. he NEEDS to wander off....That is difficult indeed.

The only thing I can think of is that the player has to report once a week/month to pick up new duties. If he really has to go 'Ordinator-style' he cannot leave the Temple unless he is ordered to go out, that wouldn't be much fun.

If you really want to stick to the lore (and that we want, of course) the player cannot possibly be an Ordinator and be involved in some other faction at the same time. I have no idea if it OK for the player to go out and still be an Ordinator. IMO that contradicts too much with the lore.

That's my question. How strange is it for an Ordinator to do other quests than Temple business?

BTW: What's wrong with race restrictions? Why not only allow Dunmer to join the Ordinators, so this faction becomes very optional? It would be fun if every province would have such an 'optional' faction that can only be joined if you're from the appropriate race?

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:18 pm

I agree. Like the praetorian guard would probably be imperial-only, one of the nord holds would probably be nord-only, the mane's guard would be khajiit only, the mage council thingy in summerset aldmer-only, etc.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:39 pm

I think that the PC will be allowed to be part of a Great House and of course the Temple, but yes he/she will be restricted from most other factions.

I like the idea of having to go back everyone in a while. It may not be as bad as it sounds however. I am thinking that perhaps the PC will reach a kind of honorary member status(having completed all quests), and then he/she will be able to go as they please. With that there map be a few quest that the PC can pick up after but complete on their own time still.

The PC will go through an initial period where he/she cannot leave where they are, but that is only in the beginning. Later they will report to someone then every so often, and be given quests that will keep the PC busy enough till next time they have to report in.

I think I have to stick with Dunmer only. If it is a big problem then there might be away to work with it but it wouldn't be pretty. People are just going to have to get use to the fact that you cannot do everything in the game.

Zalzidrax · Post by **Zalzidrax** » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:43 pm

As long as we make each province that has a native-only faction, I think it would be fair to exclude non-dunmer.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:15 am

Wow, do I feel like the odd man out.

I voted NO.

Not because of the lore involved. Not because of the Dunmer-only thing. Just three reasons:

1. First and foremost, all the ordinators have always (to me) seemed to be incredibly hostile. I just can't see them accepting an outlander, even a dunmer outlander, into their Order.

2. The Ordinators have always seemed more suitable for an NPC-only faction, like the Camonna Tong, largely because of the aforementioned hostility. They have a sort of coolness, exclusivity (if that's a word), a mystique that would be marred if they were joinable. Like the Camonna Tong, there is much talk of their behind-the-scenes work, their unseen effect on the plotline. They (supposedly) captured and persecuted Dissident Priests, False Nerevarines, and Sixth House members in the OMQ, and the plot would never have been the same if the player could've just joined up with them. I suppose this wouldn't be so much of a problem on the mainland, as the MMQ, to my knowledge doesn't much involve the Ordinators.

3. A gut feeling. Can't really explain it.

And of course, because someone had to say no, although I didn't know it was unanimous until after I had voted.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 4:19 am

Nehron I respect you vote, and understand exactly what you are saying. Also let me assure you that it is my hope that some of what you said can be retained even if joinable. It isn't going to be an easy path for the PC, it will involve alot of things that must be done right away, not the normal kinda of do as you please jobs of other factions. Also, right up through the PC's training you will still be looked down at from the other Ordinators. Also, the player will not be involved with everything they do, and hopefully we can keep some feeling of mystery to some parts of the Ordinators.

I don't want them to loss the feeling that the player get from them in the game normally. Most will not join them, because of the restrictions from other factions and the constant timed quests, so only a few will probably do it.

If they dont measure up to what they should, then the project will likely be scraped. Like I said this isn't about getting the armor for me, it is about having it actually be like it should be, if it is possible.

Vertigo · Post by **Vertigo** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:56 am

I like the idea of having to go back everyone in a while. It may not be as bad as it sounds however. I am thinking that perhaps the PC will reach a kind of honorary member status(having completed all quests), and then he/she will be able to go as they please. With that there map be a few quest that the PC can pick up after but complete on their own time still.

So at first it is kind of like the Telvanni Grandmaster quests, you cannot do anything else until you've completed them all....Sounds fair to me.

However, it is important we also pay attention to the nay-sayers

How can we take away their doubts?

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:09 am

Had a little talk with Turelio, and he not only took away mine, he apparently managed to talk me into helping him make the things. I'm a sucker for a good quest line, I guess.

Graff · Post by **Graff** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:42 pm

Sounds very cool.

However, I can't see why the outlander thing should be an issue, outlanders are only outlanders on Vvardenfell, considering the High Ordinators are on the mainland, as was two-thirds of the tribunal, I would guess that the Ordinators originated from the mainland and NOT vvardenfell.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Tue Jul 20, 2004 7:57 pm

Actually the PC is an Outlander to Dunmer culture, which includes that of hte mainland because Vvardenfell isn't overly differnt from the mainland except maybe with places nearer to the west.

However, this will be shown and dealt with. It will appear at first that you can't join but if you have the right requirments you will be able to find out more and start your training after doing a few things.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 3:27 pm

I support this all the way.

About the thing with non-dunmer being able to join... remeber your the reincarntion(sp) of the head of the ordinators. You should be able to join after you complete the main quest regardless of race.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 7:36 pm

Nerevar wasn't even around at the time of the Ordinators, as it was founded by Saint Olms after Nerevar died to service the Tribunal.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Wed Jul 21, 2004 9:38 pm

Huh?

Quess I don't have my lore straight then

. Well you should still be able to join regardless of race when you beat the MQ.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:23 am

We will see, I am fairly comfortable with the Dunmer only rule, even then they will start out quite hostile towards you. You will not even know that you can join until you have met all the requirments, even then it isn't exactly apparent, you wont see them readily recruiting in the streets of Almalexia.

I am going to start a thread to discuss the lore of the Ordinators, so that we can all get a more defined perspective on them. It isn't just to help this but to help inform people about them, alot of people are confused or have the wrong idea about them.

Another thing, if we get this faction working well I plan on making a bolt-on for Vvardenfell, so that it blends in better there as well.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 8:46 am

Wouldn't being an Ordinateur coinside with House Indoril?

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 10:35 am

No, but there would likely be some advantages if for members of House Indoril if they join the Ordinators. To join you must be the rank of Lawman in one of the Great Houses, and a Disciple in the Temple, atleast that is what I have planned so far. All Ordinators come from one of hte Great Houses, but most come from House Indoril.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 2:37 pm

hows this?
Dunmer-only (house dres already is, but

), AND you have to be layman in a great house - maybe they could have an order of "preference", like Indoril - Redoran - Dres - Telvanni - Hlaalu.
also, i like the idea of having to be extremely dedicated during the first three ranks, like you are in training.

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 3:19 pm

Telvanni would probably have the least preference.

I say yes, I always wanted to join the ordinators, but there needs to be strict requirements, kind of like nazz says, but if you are non dunmer you have to prove yourself to them in some way.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Jul 30, 2004 4:04 pm

In the beginning you will be largely unpopular, however which ever house you are from will also affect this. For example you may get a few curious looks if you come from Hlaalu, Telvanni or even Dres, however the end result will still be the same. IMO Hlaalu will be less prefered, most Ordinators will be Indoril and probably already not like Hlaalu. What I meant was that if you are an Ordinator and your are in Indoril, you may get praise or advantages in that House, since becoming an Ordinator likely is consider a great sacrifice, and it isn't maditory(like the Temple will be for them).

Once you are finally able to join them you will go into a kind of training, but even afterwards I was thinking of having a kind of tour-of-duty, where you get stationed to certain Temples or cities where you get tasks to complete. I am not sure yet but I was thinking of having these on timers giving you enough time to complete your task do a few things and then you must move onto the next one, keeping you busy for a while. Once you complete this I was thinking of a kind of honorary status, maybe for doing something great(final task), but after that you will be able to take missions at will.

Another thing, because the player will be kept in constant work for a while, it will be important for all the NPCs to have good personalities, so special dialog and not just all the same stuff everywhere, hopefully this will help keep in interesting as well.

Right now, I am not sure about allowing non-Dunmer. Slave or something under them isn't fitting and would probably never be allowed. The only possibility I can think of is if they have done the MQ maybe, and have been allowed by Vehk to help reform the Ordinators, however that probably wouldn't work well with all the missions and tasks. Even as a Dunmer you will have to prove your worth and devoution to them, as anything else we will have to see. I have talked to Nazz on alot of this already, and plan to talk with him more.

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 6:46 pm

Ok Nehron and me have been doing ALOT of brainstorming.

Anyways, like I said the player will start in Almalexia once they are finally able to join(have met the other requirements, Great House Lawman, Undecided Temple Rank). There he will engage in strainous training and study. You cannot leave the compound, but there will be services for you inside, should you leave you will be "kicked". Eventually you will take a written and oral test, reciting Temple Doctrine and various other things you will have learned(you had books and papers assigned to you for reading). Then you will be sent to an obstical course, that will have various traps, obsticals and opponents you must deal with(a few similar things to those in Sotha Sil, but obviously not the same). Healers will be standing by should you die you will be revived(script like that of the Puzzle Canal Shrine) but will have failed.

After that, you will be given you Armor and moved up to the Ranks of Ordinator. You will have a brief amount of time to prepare yourself, and then you will begin your "Tour-of-Duty". You will be assigned to a place and person. As soon as you get there you will be handed tasks to complete, which could lead to other events. When this is finally done you will be moved to another location and person and it repeats itself.

You will go to many different locations, in-fact if it has Ordinators you will probably end up there eventually. Somewhere down the road you do something great for the Ordinators, and are promoted to a rank that allows for more freedom and movement on your part.

What I need is a list of places that will have Ordinators stationed at. If you have or had such a place in your claim please tell me about it. This way Nehron and I can begin thinking up the quests and tasks for these locations, to keep them interesting and fun.

So far I have these locations that will be on the "Tour-of-Duty":

Almalexia
Necrom/Necrom Lighthouse
Narsis(Forbidden Island)
Riverbridge
Methren-Ruhn
Stonefalls(Temple Island)
Kragenmore
Ranyon-Ruhn
Cormaris View(Small Temple)

So if you know of a place please tell me. I am in the process of coming up with overall themes of these locations, if you have and idea for one go ahead and suggest it, thank you.

Edit: If you have a place please explain a little bit about it as well, thanks.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:23 pm

I voted yes. Of course if it's made right and according to the lore.

Anonymous · Post by **Anonymous** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:54 pm

If you were the poor guy who got stuck on watch you could script it so that if your standing where your suppose to be on watch you get to see two theives run away and you get to chase them down and slaughter them. But if you didnt do your job and werent where you were suppose to be your boss would say "There was a robbery right where you were suppose to be on watch. You have been ordered to execution and dismissal from the order" or somin like that.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 8:28 pm

I have some ideas:
-when you try to join Ords you receive some initiation task (like pilgrimage for the Temple)
-than you're given a full set of Ords armor and all other Ords won't attack you if you're talking to them (just give the player not "normal" Ords armor but the one w\o this hostility script)
-the highest rank will be the High Ordinator

TÃƒÂºrelio · Post by **TÃƒÂºrelio** » Fri Aug 06, 2004 11:24 pm

I have some ideas:
-when you try to join Ords you receive some initiation task (like pilgrimage for the Temple)

Absolutely! Although it is going to be less official then the Temple quest. You have to do a favor for the Ordinator to be allowed to join, it's still being worked out.

-than you're given a full set of Ords armor and all other Ords won't attack you if you're talking to them (just give the player not "normal" Ords armor but the one w\o this hostility script)

It has been done before with a special script that just allows you to wear Ordinator armor, I think this will be better in-case the PC decided to pick up some armor somewhere, it would be strange if they attack you then.

-the highest rank will be the High Ordinator

Sorry High Ordinator will be unobtainable, because of it's special nature. High Ordinators only serve in Mournhold, and there is a special test you must take, you will be told they do not need any more High Ordinators and so you cannot take the test no matter what. Same goes for "Her Hand's", there is even question as to if they are considered Ordinators, since they don't report to the Alma Rula.

King-Morrowind that is one idea, and that may be used in mor ethen one of the quests. Not just for standing guard but just when your out on patrol(following an NPC partner) you may witness a crime, and there may be situation to use supressing force rather then lethal.

Tamriel Rebuilt

The Ordinators - joinable

Would you want this in TR?

The Ordinators - joinable

Hmmm...