A Piece of Chaos

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:44 pm

Where in Morrowind is the stronghold that contains one of the pieces of the Staff of Chaos?

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:53 pm

It USED to be Dagoth Ur, then the name of the whole of Red Mountain (not a mad man-god with a funky golden mask and a liking of tentacles in odd places). However, as the Eternal Champion removed the piece (the last he was to get, IIRC), it's not there anymore anyway.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:06 pm

Precisely, though it is a bit annoying that the location of the piece is nowhere to be found within the crater citadel - the room it was in should still be there logically, no?

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:40 pm

No. Enraged at the fact he missed the opportunity to get himself a piece of the most powerful thing on Nirn besides the Heart of Lorkhan, Dagoth Ur erased the caverns from existence, to have nothing remind him of how STUPID he was.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:50 pm

How the hell could Dagoth Ur not know about the existance of the staff peice anyway? I mean, he'd been living in Red Mountain for how long? A couple thousand years? And he was a god! You'd think he would have noticed something that powerful sitting under his nose :p

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 4:54 pm

1. Dagoth Ur was quite insane
2. Jager Tharn was virtually a god himself
3. Dagoth Ur was propably a bit too focused on tinkering on Anumidium and sedning hate, blight and mutants with tentacles for faces to plague the Tribunal to really care about some cavern
4. I BET Jager Tharn put a spell on that piece of Chaos so that it would not attract Dagoth Ur's immediate attention.

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:03 pm

And:
5. Dagoth Ur didn't exist in lore in Arena yet. He was made up later. At least the individual, Red Mountain was called Dagoth Ur back then.

But the previous 4 hermit supplied are pretty similar to the standard Bethesda-excuses they usually use to fill in gaps in lore. Like the Mournhold non-levitate things and such. Although hermit's reasons are somewhat more plausible, unlike the Almalexia period thing and such.

It still won't make sense, Dagoth would have known it. C'mon he even knows you're there the second you take one step into his citadel. And all his servants which are his eyes and his flesh and can somehow communicate with him. Someone will find out about a piece of the Staff of Chaos just lying around. He's a (semi-)god after all, not just a random lune.

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:16 pm

Well. Dagoth Ur was insane and as such, he was strongly focused on getting back at the Three andn kicking some Dunmer ass. He could care less about some Jager Tharn disguised with a powerful spell (like, as a shalk or something) dropping something disguised as a rock into a random cavern, nor about some random outlander prowling a lava-fileld cavern deep below him to retrieve what on a casual look (and I doupt he gave more than that) looked like a rock.

Then, when the eternal champion was gone, I *BET* a giggling Vivec, an evenly giggling Almalexia and a widely grinning Seth in some way told him ... I mean, if I was a Tribunal member, I would not pass up the chance to rub that up Dagoth's nose!

And then, well, he did away with the cavern.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:30 pm

This is totally off topic I know, but why do so many people refer to Sotha Sil as Seth?

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:15 pm

Only Hermit to my knowledge does, which is odd I know - did you mistake him for Seth Green? LOL Everyone else calls him Seht which is his Daedric initial like Vehk and Ayem.

My initial would be Meht, Hermit's would be Hekem, and so on.

P.S. Jagar Tharn was only the Imperial Battlemage, we was no omre powerful than Ocato is now or even Divayth Fyr or the Psijics, he got his stupid godly powers from the ancient artifact known as the plo-tde-vice.

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:36 pm

Seht ? ooops. I always call him Seth

And back on topic. One thing interest me. If part of Staff was storen in the Dagoth Ur (which is Dwemeri ruin) than Big D himself should have known 'bout that.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 10:21 pm

It's unlikely; but let's think: Dagoth Ur and Jagar Tharn both wanted the Emperor dead (or gone.) It's possible they formed an alliance, and Jagar left a small piece of the staff there, claiming it was something he merely wanted inaccesible. Dagoth Ur, interested, takes it, but before being able to study it the Eternal Champion steals it and defeats Jagar.

Unlikely, yes. But possible.

G.M.K. · Post by **G.M.K.** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:42 pm

We also have to remember he wasn't as powerful then as in Morrowind. Big D had to slowly become more powerful over time and wait for the Tribunal to weaken.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:55 pm

There's a difference of... say, 40 years at the most between Arena and Morrowind.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Oct 28, 2004 12:25 am

Right Garriath - he already had pretty much the power he has now.

Re: the dungeon in Arena, the game doesn't specify the entrance so it is possible that it could be any of the ruin present in the Red Mountain area but there should still be a place we can find and go 'aah - that's where it was'.

Vernon · Post by **Vernon** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:02 am

Or maybe there was a phat spell on it that made the rock jump up and smack him in the head evry time he tried to grab it, so he gave up because it annoyed the shit out of him and went back to tinkering with Numidium...

Or maybe he was allergic to that kind of material....

Or maybe he just didn't care about it, cos he had a phat rockin mech that stomps on junk. And junk.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 1:08 am

Stumpytheguar wrote:
Garriath wrote:There's a difference of... say, 40 years at the most between Arena and Morrowind.
Where'd you get THAT number from? Ooh - you pulled it out of your ass.

Well, let's see. Uriel Septim was still the emperor when Arena took place. He still is when Morrowind rolls around. You do the math. I suppose perhaps sixty or so might be concievable- if unlikely.

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:53 am

Can 1 piece of the staff of chaos do a guy any good? Maybe it's because it really had no use to him since it was just by itself. I don't think he'd find it worth his time to go around collecting all the pieces either

. Besides, he probably has more power than what that little staff has to offer....

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:20 am

Hey... What if Dagoth Ur was the Eternal Champion???

(Don't have a heart-attack, I'm kidding.)

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:50 am

I was under the impression that it was the Septim dynasty's blood that was holding the gates of Oblivion closed. Also, I could have sworn Uriel's age was given somewhere. I'll try to find the source.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:21 pm

Stumpytheguar wrote:This is a fantasy game, and the emperor is not just any man. If Uriel Septim can hold the gates of oblivion closed by his sorcery alone as TESIV is suggesting, then he can certainly rule for more than 60 years. I wouldn't suggest anything extreme (By extreme I mean over two and a half centuries) but I think it's safe to say that more time could have passed.

Don't be an arse - try looking it up: Morrowind (3E427) takes place 28 years after Arena ends (3E399).

Dagoth Ur has been growing in power since the war of the first council which was in 1E668 to 1E700, so since around 1E700 till the end of the 1E is 2920-700=2220 years the 2E or CE is another 896 years, then there's 389 years of the third era 'till the 8th piece of the staff is hidden under Red Mountain. giving a grand total of 3505 Tamrielic years (360 days in each) between Voryn's assumption of godhood and Jagar Tharn hiding the piece of the staff, he then had 10 years to snoop around for it (assuming he knew it was around) before the Eternal Champion recovered the last piece and assembled the staff for his showdown with Tharn in 3E399.

I hardly think the extra 28 years from the end of Arena when the last piece is half-inched 'till the beginning of Morrowind in 427 would have increased his power that dramatically. Infact the period acounts for less than one percent of Voryn's godhood span.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:45 pm

Indeed only the Duke of Old Ebonheart knew of the entrance's location - and only once you recovered whatever artifact he wanted.

Infact by analysis of the artwork depicting Red Mountain in Arena it would appear that the entrance is rather in an area far removed from the crater citadel as there is not even any lava flow nearby - the lava trenches are visible in the far distance. This I would assume means that the location of the staff should be somewhere within the ashlands, probably within the Ghostfence but certainly nowhere near the crater itself, nor any of the foyada - which seem to have been rather more active in the time of Arena. Given the relatively little information that Voryn gained through his servants I would think it doubtful in the extreme that he would have them searching every nook and cranny in the Vvardenfell mountain chain for a single piece of a staff that he may not even have known about.

And further, even if he found the piece all it would do alone would be show up his location to Jagar Tharn - it's useless without the other 7 pieces, all of which were well beyond the reach of Voryn Dagoth.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:03 pm

All 7 of the others, Red Mountain (then called Dagoth Ur) was the last dungeon you visited, as soon as you finished it you have to quickfoot it over to Cyrodiil city itself and do the Imperial Palace dungeon. So I guess it's feasable that if he knew of the staff piece being somewhere in the region (I doubt he did - see my last post) then he could have lain in wait and attacked and assembled the whole staff for himself. But he didn't leading more credence to what I said in my last post that he likely didn't even know of the piece being 'under his nose'.

Marauth AlaÃƒÂ-RaÃƒÂ¡n · Thu Oct 28, 2004 3:13 pm

One point I wan't to raise while we're on the subject of the dungeons in Arena is *breathes in* has anyone implemented the dungeon you visit in Morrowind to find the artifact that the duke of Ebonheart wanted so he could tell you the location of the Red Mountain entrance. *breathes out*

It's called Black Gate and is located just southwest of Almalexia. Just wanna know if there's any plans to include it.