The Lounge

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:16 am

Well, as most of you know the Lounge was closed a while back because TR had attracted a number of spammers to its forums. However, pretty much all of those spammers have left now and it seems to me that there couldn't be much harm in trying out reopening the lounge. I don't know how the core feels about this, but I suppose we shall see . . . Anyway, I'm only proposing something of a "Provisional Lounge." If people can't behave themselves, I would support it being closed again. But I think that we should at least try it, especially because the core doesn't want off-topic posting and threads in the tavern.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 6:21 am

I couldn't agree more. The elections are over, and ever since the lounge closed I've felt a definite change for the grimmer in TR.

Katoth · Post by **Katoth** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:22 am

I agree that the Lounge should be re-opened. I miss it and also agree it should be closed if it is abused by spamers again. TR just doesn't seem the same without the Lounge.

Timito · Post by **Timito** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:01 am

I completely agree, the lounge should re-open. Maybe the 'hello I'm joining' messages could be posted there in stead of the Tavern?

Eraser · Post by **Eraser** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:22 pm

Unoffical personal opinion:

I think it should be brought back, it does have its uses, ie asking for help with computer trouble, what to upgrade to, posting "Hi I'm new" threads or talking about non TR mods or tsunami relief. So long as we stay away from the possibly harmfull debates and spam.

Vegor · Post by **Vegor** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:28 pm

Just another personal opinion.

I would like to see it back, but I sincerely doubt whether harmful debates and spam can be avoided in any way. Somehow, people always tend to start such discussions. On top of that, even when every post reduces your post count, people will 'spam' in the lounge.

I expect it will be fine for a few weeks at most, but after that it will degrade to what it was before it was closed. However, I'd say we give it a shot but I have very little faith in it actually working out in the end.

Wolf · Post by **Wolf** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:07 pm

What exactly is the lounge?

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:50 am

The lounge doesn't really have anything to do with TR at all, which means it didn't had a place in these forums from the beginning. The ones here who want to discuss non-related should make a little effort and visit haplo's discussion forum or make use of our IRC channel, I fail to see how it would be any different. When the lounge existed, atleast the core team viewed it was trouble. The only thing it gave to the project was spam sprees and flame wars, and I don't think it would be any different with a re-opening. If you want to argue with each other, do it where we wont have to clean up the mess afterwards.

Also, shouldn't you guys mod instead of wasting time discussing useless things?

Hermit · Post by **Hermit** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:53 am

Just nother private opinion:

I'd like to see it back, but TR should assign someone to moderate it, have a really close eye on it. I would volunteer. Just so that spam, bad behavior, and really off the track records can be killed. Also, I'd like t keep it small, and retain the negative post count the lounge gave, just to discourage people from spamming. However, someone (preferrably from the states) should also moderate it when I am away/in bed. So that it doesn't go unchecked for any prolonged period of time.

But it's not on me to decide.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:05 am

I'm within that time zone, and would love to moderate it, but there are others that are more fit then me. Dexter perhaps?

Anyhow, I vote "yes" this time.

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:48 am

Dunno, but to me it feels like if we would have to take away the time of several of our modders simply to keep a forum like this under control, then we are better without it.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:52 am

Well, ever since the Lounge closed, the atmosphere of TR has gotten pretty damn grim. With a huge influx of new members and the departure of quite a few old ones, I for one feel surrounded by a group of faceless nobodies. I find it difficult to enjoy the Project at all. Who are the people I'm working with? Why should I enjoy working with them?

Before, we always used to joke about what faceless pricks MEMod members were. Somehow, I don't think I've seen such a comment since the Lounge closed.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:54 am

It disturbs me that many core members think this project as wrok instead of a community. If everyone just kept to their work, and nothing else, excuse me but I'd be rather frightened. It's not like everyone feals like modding at every second that they are on the computer. Hents the name "lounge". And besides, it's not like it drains our energy out for ever more.

Hermit moderates it, with lets say 1 or 2 moderators from the opposite time zone, and voila, everyone's happy. Besides, for instance, I am on 24 7, but I can do little more then look over the forums, post if needed, for I have my school work. However, I'd much rather do my homework, and help take care of a forum at the same time.

The lounge should be moderated, perhaps even set special rules like a rule stickie, and constant moderation doesn't take away from my moding time.

So really, I just found out that I don't have to leave TR, and as Garriath brought up, this place needs a bit of a oost of atmosphere. 2 moderators and hermit is all it needs. Heh, we may even be able to spring up productive members from new members that will forget about TR.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:56 am

The public opinion so far is pretty overwelming, however 15 people is not a good sample of our modding group. If people could please discuss the issue here and get more people to vote on the issues, that would be great. If there are enough votes, the core will discuss it and make a final discision on it.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:31 am

I've noticed that since the Lounge closed, the community aspect of TR has gone straight down the toilet. I think this has had a direct effect on our productivity, or at least the semblance of productivity. Even from my perspective, which is one of a modder who tries to be as involved with TR as time permits, it seems like the Core more resembles a shadow government. It is a rare thing to see a Core member post news of updates. It is even rarer to see an Admin post updates, or even at all. The exception is Majra, who does so much work that we should all castrate ourselves to show our inferiority.
I know why the Lounge was closed. But I feel that it did not help the project. When the Lounge was open, I saw more than one person register for the community aspect, and eventually get involved with the modding aspect. Let's face it, none of us are getting paid, and this project will most likely not cause any material benefits to us. So let's lighten up. What would happen if a prominent modder here finally said "I'm sick of these anal-retentive people trying to put a cap on social interaction. I'm leaving, and taking my skills elsewhere."
Right now, we are a project. And work is getting done. But I would like it more if we were a community as well, like we used to be.

Majra · Post by **Majra** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:41 am

alright, since some of the spamming has been reduced, and the political season is over we can have the lounge back in my opinion with one side note, that the core can and will delete/lock threads that become community dividers or personal fights or pure spam for the sake of spam (like post something illegible times 5 roxors)

PS. you can send your balls to PO Box 4335 Albany, NY

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:47 am

If moderating the lounge is an issue, I would love to volunteer. I cant mod too much anymore (only half of my freetime), but want to help with the project still; I see this as a perfect way to do so.

Noirgrim · Post by **Noirgrim** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 2:56 am

Dexter wrote: The exception is Majra, who does so much work that we should all castrate ourselves to show our inferiority.

Huh.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:04 am

Dex . . . Noir probably does the most work out of everyone . . . he had all of his moderatorial duties before Yinnie left, and he took all of hers afterwards.

Dexter · Post by **Dexter** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:09 am

I'm not saying Noir doesn't do a lot of work. I'm saying that nobody knows about all the work he does. I have heard stories about the massive workload he takes on, but we never hear a peep about it. I understand that he is a sublime modder. It is my opinion that we should take that and run with it. Post screenshots and progress reports, get it out there. About 50% of the ES forum thinks we are doomed to fail. Why don't we make them eat their words by shoving some screenshots in their face? We will be hard-pressed for new, contributing members, if everyone thinks we are doomed. I have seen some of Noir's work. I know that, if we put it out for everyone to see, people would say "holy shit, I want to be a part of that."

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:10 am

Still don't understand what you all have against an alternative board or IRC. Atleast in the old times, IRC used to be full of members discussing all sorts of things, and live discussions are a lot more giving then posted ones. Give me a good reason to why an external source isn't as good as an extra forum here, and I might concider it.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:19 am

1. People like to be on the actual forum.
2. It's possible that people wouldn't use IRC because they don't know about it. The lounge is literally on the forum . . . can't miss it.
3. The lounge adds a nice atmosphere to TR . . . it says that we're not some cult.
4. Another forum would probably have less order.

Kothloth · Post by **Kothloth** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:24 am

3. The lounge adds a nice atmosphere to TR . . . it says that we're not some cult.

Well, the reason we removed it in the first place was that the board held the opposite effect. Some threads were too hot for some people to handle and it turned out into quite a few flame wars, unless I'm mistaken. Which continues into us having to ban members.

Jacurutu · Post by **Jacurutu** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:26 am

Pretty much all of those spammers are gone now, Koth. Besides, all I'm proposing is a provisional lounge for now. If it sucks, delete it.

Garriath · Post by **Garriath** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:28 am

(To Koth) First of all, the elections are over. The time of such heated emotions is over, too.

Also, are you saying the people who were getting banned were perfectly decent outside of the Lounge? I'd much rather have a number of banned jackasses that can't behave themselves along with a supportive, friendly community rather than a faceless dark community full of jackasses with little to no self-control. I hope you understand me.

Colostriph · Post by **Colostriph** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:29 am

Hents why I mentionned that we have hermit, and two other moderators (none-cores) around to keep it clean.

Above that, core members are part of TR main too you know. They'll be in discussions, and subside any problems that a-rise. Simple as that.

sirwootalot123 · Post by **sirwootalot123** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:41 am

I agree with the grim atmosphere thing, though my inner emotion is saying "use a stronger word than grim". I absolutely dread TR now, its just plain god-damned BORING without feeling like these are actual people, not nerds chained to desks making mods. we are nerds chained to desks making mods and being social! thats half the reason I joined TR, and that half is almost completely dead without a lounge.

Post by **Haplo** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:58 am

my personal thoughts:

Don't care, I dont use my own forum that much, for fear of being sucked in. But I think someone other than a core member should moderate it. someone with a lot of time to spend, yet that they are known to be trustworthy. Just like Jac with the Lit Forums.

presh · Post by **presh** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 4:48 am

I think it would be a good idea to bring the Lounge back. It does make it a bit more social and less like a job. There were some great discussions there.

Sniper4 · Post by **Sniper4** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:22 am

I'm neutral.

I do feel a *slight* decrease in the community. And although we have an IRC channel, that is actually more distracting from modding, than a forum, because with an IRC channel, people expect immediate responses, and a person cannot mod when they are staring at that thing constantly to respond. With a forum, people don't expect immediate responses, and a person can mod for an hour or so, and then check back in the lounge to see what was said.

The downside is, productivity may go down the toilet if we put the lounge back up, and it will piss off Garfield for taking up his space with random crap.....,which, since he is kind enough to give us this server, and its space, I would like to see him happy, and not pissed off.

Of course, then again, bringing the lounge back, may bring that "community" back, and may attract more modders to work..... maybe....

We just gotta make sure everything balances itself out.....

Note to all of you: DO NOT badger Garfield about creating this. If he is to be contacted for permission, it will ONLY be from a core member. I mentioned him because I care about how he feels about us, since on this sever, he is our host, and we are his guests. I will be PISSED if I find that his pm box has been spammed by any of you for the lounge. Trust me... you DON'T want to see me pissed....

.

Shadow_Ranger · Post by **Shadow_Ranger** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:06 am

well, i would like to see it open again, and heres why.

People need to talk about stuff. Period. Wether it pertains to TR or not, sometimes it just has to get out in the open. If you look at productive and non productive groups working in schools... theres a few things in common, one is, the groups are talking. It might not pretain, but they are communicating, learning about each other, and finding out what they each would like, and know, and also how they deal with things. And for flame wars, yes i agree they shouldnt be started or be stopped, but some "attacks" ill call them, should be allowed. We are born into a competive sociaty, what is compitation with out a little insults... Im sure we all have attacked a person, a team, a sport, in terms of which is "better". in a flame, its the same idea, only the things being comparied as better are two people. Two highly competive people. Even in younger ages people are competive like this, think about the kindergardeners...

"Dont eat my playdough!"
"NO! I'll eat it if i want jerk!"
"Listen poo face, its mine!"
"Ill tell the teacher!!"
"I hate you!"
"Good! your a stupid head!"

see? so what have we learned?

The lounge is a place for all normal human functions, and is a just a nice place to chill, talk about current events, and if some one has a problem with someone, some one they have never met, or seen face face, and calls them a name, what does it really mean? would you take that? Its just some text... People are braver when there not confronting there enemy, so most likely, they went over board to begin with...

my 2 cents

Stalker · Post by **Stalker** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:53 am

Personally I agree with everything Dex said here. Especially about "shadow goverment" part. Was it lounge or not but TR is getting dull. Really dull. I don't have motivation to do my claim. I don't want to report to beta-test Map 1 for some reasons some people may know. Plus, you know, I actually really know a few people out there, from the Lounge times. Almost none of them include the core (with an exeption of Hermit). We agree that you do a lot. But please show us this "a lot". So bring the lounge back. At least for a short probation period.

Tamriel Rebuilt

The Lounge

Should TR Bring the Lounge Back?

The Lounge