I'm working on a showcase quest for the Firewatch misc quest claim "Out of Order".
(Reply #1) Posted on Tue, 2022-05-03 04:39
Pralec Quest Showcase
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2016-08-28 05:22
6 min 52 sec ago
Quest claim
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Ready for review, I think! Cleaned with TESAME.
OUT OF ORDER
Outline
The Brazen Maiden was damaged on its way into Firewatch because Drakelight Beacon’s fire was out. Now the maiden’s captain, Jarvas Nerethran, is suing the Order of Firewatch for damages.
Senillos Tulnus, commander of the Order, wants you to convince Nerethran to drop the case. He gives you some money to pay Nerethran off, but the captain’s asking price is much more than the commander gave.
You have multiple avenues of investigation to find ways to bring Nerethran’s price down.
Finding the Quest
Stumble upon the body of Sleeps-On-Waves in the wilderness north of Firewatch. He was a crewmember of the Brazen Maiden, and kept a meticulous journal.
Talk to Nerethran in the Howling Noose. He’ll give you the details of the matter, but won’t talk to you any more unless you’ve been asked by Tulnus to pay him off.
Talk to Helrus Jeral in Drakelight Beacon. He was the knight who let the Beacon’s fire go out. (Unmarked, but hints that Senillos Tulnus wants to talk about the Brazen Maiden.
Talk to Senillos Tulnus in Ember Keep about the Brazen Maiden. He won’t talk about it in front of the Duchess, though, and will instead arrange a secret meeting atop the Beacon.
Taking Action - Brazen Maiden Clues
Talk to the Brazen Maiden’s crew. A crewmember in the lower hold will bring up the topic of Sleeps-on-Waves. If you then talk to the first mate, Bidsi Vidryon, about Sleeps-on-Waves, she will tell you the story of how he abandoned ship as the Maiden was entering the Inner Sea.
Find Sleeps-On-Waves’ body north of Firewatch (119413, 172070). His journal will help in negotiations with Jarvas Nerethran.
Get into the Brazen Maiden’s cabin. You can break in, or Bidsi will give you the key if she likes you enough. Inside you will find that Nerethran was a bit of a drinker, which will help to bring his price down.
Taking Action - Investigating the Lawyers
Look into the credentials of Daranith & Daranith. Once you’ve taken the quest from Senillos Tulnus, and met both of the Daranith brothers (one in their chambers, the other in the Imperial Commission offices), you can go to the Guild of Barristers provincial headquarters in Old Ebonheart. There is a guild registry on a desk upstairs, which implies that the brothers might not be who they say they are.
Snoop around the chambers of Daranith & Daranith. Behind a locked door in a room under the stairs is Harminia Daranith, ostensibly Urelan Daranith’s wife, who is mute and unresponsive. If you cast dispel magic on her, she will “wake up”, and then Goren Daranith will attack. Get Goren to half health, and Urelan will teleport in to help his brother. Kill them both to rescue Harminia, or run away and the brothers will disappear, leaving Harminia’s body behind.
Finishing the Quest
Refuse to take the quest. When Senillos Tulnus asks you to help, you can tell him you’ll think about it. Talk to him again and you can turn him down.
Tell Willam Rillard about the request. The magistrate would be interested to find out that Senillos Tulnus is embezzling money from the Order’s finances to pay off a legal opponent.
Kill Nerethran. You can complete the quest this way, but Tulnus won’t be happy about it.
Pay Nerethran off. He will ask for a lot initially. Bring him Sleeps-On-Waves journal, break into his cabin, and/or find evidence of the Daraniths’ deception to bring the price down. If you’ve visited the Guild of Barristers in Old Ebonheart and refuse to pay Nerethran anything, he will attack. But if you can calm him, then he will drop the case for nothing. If you’ve been attacked by the Daraniths or found that they’ve departed you can also get him to leave for nothing. Tell Tulnus that Nerethran has dropped the case to complete the quest.
Tell Tulnus that the Daraniths have disappeared. If you return to the lawyers’ chambers after fighting with them, you will find that they’ve departed. Tell Tulnus about this to finish the case.
Tell Tulnus that the Daraniths are dead. If you kill them both and rescue Harminia, Tulnus will give you an additional reward. And if you get Harminia’s story of what happened to her, she will give you a reward too.
Other Weird Routes
If you fight the Daraniths and leave, then return to find they’ve departed, all before the quest starts, you won’t get a reward.
If you kill the Daraniths and rescue Harminia before taking the quests, you will receive a reward as above.
Side Quest
Talk to Helrus Jeral about Drakelight Beacon to find out why he left his post. Follow up by talking to his friends, Anice Derielle and Theran Arlethi, about the night to get all the details. With some snooping around Drakelight Beacon’s exterior (on the balcony level) you can find some physical evidence. Show it to Theran at the right point to have him confess to putting out the fire. You can tell Helrus about this to get a reward. You can tell Senillos Tulnus about it to get Theran arrested. You can tell Theran he’s about to get arrested to get a reward. And you can tell Helrus to talk to Anice Derielle about his feelings in order to get a better ending for him after the main quest is done.
Post-Quest Consequences
If you complete the quest without dealing with the Daraniths, return later and you will find they’ve gone and Harminia Daranith is dead.
No matter how you complete the quest, Helrus Jeral will move out of Drakelight Beacon. He’ll either move into the square in front of the Howling Noose, or into Anice Derielle’s house.
Merge Notes
Delete Harminia Daranith reference in "Firewatch, Daranith & Daranith: Barristers" cell in TR_Mainland (I moved Harminia and when using the ESP this results in two copies of her).
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
Review so far, there are some things that need fixing
-Sailors on the brazen maiden should have some greetings / responses to the topic "Brazen Maiden" before the quest begins, ideally something like (paraphrasing) "I can't believe we ran aground. Now our captain is drinking his problems away at the Howling Noose"
-There are a lot of -- used in this, "Say -- " -> "Say...", "his name -- and his price" -> "name, and his price", "Probably dead no less -- creatures" -> "no less. Creatures". Use them for interjections where the NPC is actually pausing their sentance. Seriously, almost every single bit of dialogue has an emdash, chill on these please, and take them out where you can.
-Sleeps-on-waves should get some kind of journal entry when you find out about him from the crew. Also maybe have someone other than the guy in the very depths of the ship tell you about him. Just have everyone give that response. Don't hide the quest.
-Sleeps-on-waves isn't placed in game anywhere
-Talking to senillos tulnus, he gives you directions and a note with no journal entry.
Here's a very important one:
-I have no idea where to go. You've written out the quest, but in game I'm completely and utterly lost. I talk to the captain, which starts the quest. He says he won't talk to anyone, according to his lawyers. He doesn't mention his lawyers names, I have no record of their names in my journal. Finding the body to start the quest leads to a similar situation.
-Finding the captain and the body, then going to the lawyers has a similar situation. They have no dialogue responses regarding it.
If the goal is to get the player to the watch captain, every one of these npcs should mention them once you're on the quest, and have some way to give directions. Similarly, I have no idea that talking to the lawyers is even an option after meeting the captain. You point to Nerethran but that's it.
-No one will ever dispel the wife in the basement. I'm not sure why this is a quest path, it's a neat bit of scripting but makes no sense in context. This can safely be cut out entirely. The script where they would forcegreet at half health did not work, either.
-The quest never actually leaves your journal because the second quest topic has no 'finished' scripts.
==============
overall main points I want to stress here
-remove emdashes from basically everything
-cut the lawyers kidnapping someone ( I think this is so far off the rails its unbelievable)
-the player should have a good idea of where to go and what to do just by looking at the journal
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Thanks for the feedback. I'm working on these changes now. I have a few questions:
1. It needs more direction in the journal entries. Do you mean direction to places or directions of what kind of actions to take? For example, if I add a line to the journal entry for finding Sleeps-On-Waves' journal, would something like "I should check to see if the ship made it to Firewatch" be good enough? There's a fair amount of available dialogue giving "you can find him at this location, here's how to get there" sorts of directions.
2. Did you read the note that Tulnus gives you? I think it tells you pretty clearly that Tulnus won't talk about the matter in Ember Keep but will meet you at the top of the Beacon in one hour. I'd like to maintain some of that intrigue, a journal entry feels like it would rob the player of the realisation. Do you think players will receive that note and just not look at it?
3. My understanding of the finished state when you have more than one ID for the same Quest is that as long as you have one entry with the finished state in your journal, the quest will show up as finished. Is that not the case?
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
1. You want to avoid editorializing. "I should" cannot appear in a journal entry. I had trouble finding where the quest was, or where to go. This should appear not only in the dialogue given by the NPCs but in the journal about that encounter. I saw almost no direction given on where to go. I went to the ship captain first and he started the quest. He said he was suing the city and that's about it. He didn't mention lawyers, or who can advance the quest more. This is incredibly frustrating. The NPC, especially the first NPC, should mention something like "That damned Senillos Tulnus over in the Ember Keep doesn't want me to sue." or something. Next NPC to see + Location, in both NPC dialogue and in journal. The player should not have to wander the entire city praying an NPC has some kind of reaction to the dialogue topic.
2. All encounters like this must receive a journal entry. Regardless of whether the player reads the note or not, giving no journal entry to indicate quest state changed is non-standard behavior. This goes for finding the body (see: death of a taxman in vanilla), or being given a note.
3. I think you misunderstand how the system works. Journals with similar Names are grouped. Different IDs still have their own Finished states. So your second ID with no finished tags is re-opening the journal. You can test this in game.
Overall the quest has way too many moving parts for not that much payoff. Cut the lawyer abduction subplot and just give them some generic dialogue like "We can't discuss an ongoing case" etc maybe some commentary on how its an open and shut case, easy money for them, whatever.
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Ok, totally new version up for review! Should be much more straightforward.
How to find the quest
Talk to Senillos Tulnus in Ember Keep
How to advance the quest
Meet Tulnus atop Drakelight Beacon iand hour after first speaking to him. You can accept, turn down, or delay the quest.
Talk to at least one of the four people that Tulnus directs you to (Helrus Jeral, Goren Daranith, Willam Rilard, Bidsi Vidryon) Tulnus can give you directions to all these folks.
Talk to Senillos Tulnus again. You can end the quest here and get a little money, or move on to the next part.
Investigate the Brazen Maiden. You can either break in, or get a warrant from the C&E office.
There's a crate of contraband at the back of the lowest level. Check it out.
Udrasi Edram will forcegreet. If you refuse his offer, he'll call down a friend and they'll attack you.
Go to Senillos Tulnus and either report the contraband or cover it up. If you report it, you get a cuirass. If you report it and you agreed to Udrasi's offer, you can return to him to get a pair of dwemer pauldrons.
NOTE
The crate that advances the quest shares space with an existing crate in mainland. Disable the existing crate using console to access the quest crate.
Also the hatch to the lowest level of the Brazen Maiden should be locked, but because it's in mainland unlocked it might not be locked in your game. Needs to be changed in merge.
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
Reviewing
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
MUCH better. Great rework of what you had into something much more tes3 in my opinion
Out of Order notes
-Bidsi should have some pre-quest greeting bragging about how she has the empire by the kwama eggs, and how that idiot Senillos is going to be screwed
-Forcegreeting when you're on her boat pre-quest doesn't seem necessary. Likewise, you can probably not enable the crate until the quest is started to prevent nosy players from accidentally breaking the quest.
-The artifact crate should have some kind of global in case you loot the contraband outside of the quest state. If I get the captain's note and then raid the ship, I would have no way of knowing where to investigate.
-You should have to agree to help the captain before he gives you the note to the lighthouse. Ideally he would say something like "are you willing to help the Empire with something, %PCName?". He can be cagey about what it entails. I would also just change the meeting place (if you accept) to something like "Excellent, meet me in my office" vs "go see the magistrate". I don't think his involvement would be
-I dislike that you have to traverse three different topics to get to the quest. The subject can be vague but his opening greeting should have the quest topic in it. Whether you keep that as Brazen Maiden is up to you, as long as it flows.
-If you want to reposition senillos after 5 hours just put something in the note/journal like "I won't wait forever". This might be hard to do organically. It may be easier to just forget verisimilitude for a second and have him stay up there forever. "more than one hour, but less than 5, and make sure you transition between indoors and outdoors in that time"
-The post-lighthouse meeting with the captain shouldn't end in a Goodbye if you accept the quest. You should be able to ask about all of the people involved and have him give info/directions without talking to him again.
-It's difficult to know how to advance Bidsi Vidryon's quest state. she has a lot of choice dialogue that feels slightly out of place. I kept trying the different choices thinking it would make the quest go farther but they were just flavor.
-When you go back to the ship after being asked to look around, Bidsi should have a pissed off custom greeting (and maybe disposition -60 or something). She had max disposition from earlier and told me to screw off in a forcegreeting, then greeted me with "I'm so happy to see you".
-The current implementation of the census and excise searching doesn't really work in practice if you can just walk down into the ship anyway. Have the captain give you the papers if you agree to search the ship. Otherwise you would need to add a forcegreeting to the first NPC inside the ship that asks for your papers, and if you don't have them -> positioncell outside (and add an option to FIGHT your way in) but that seems much messier than the captain of the city having the authority.
-Bidsi should have a greeting line where she denies having contraband if you've found it
-In the final brazen maiden turning with the captain, maybe cite more of the law vs "The Brazen Maiden was not travelling lawfully...". e.g. "If the Brazen Maiden was not travelling lawfully, the Order had no responsibility to ensure its safety". Idk, I think the captain is law-smart enough to make this connection. The rewards don't change regardless, I think you could cut this one line either way.
-The captain's final brazen maiden line can be repeated for infinite rewards
-Cut ellipsis use in text by around 50%. That... that's something that should be reduced (lol)
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Thanks mort. that's... that's great feedback.
Implemented most of these changes.
Still have to traverse one topic to get to the quest because I like that the captain doesn't get straight to it.
He still moves back and forth between Ember Keep and the Beacon. But I've increased the time he's up there and changed the script so it can't fire in such a way that he doesn't move.
Addied some background descriptions for a few characters. Removed Bidsi's dispo requirements.
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Updated with feedback from Discord. New script is working. Player character is no longer an edgy cockwomble.
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
is this the latest version? it has the same number as the other one, and doesn't appear to have changes made
2022-04-18 15:48
5 days 21 hours ago
Latest version. Sorry about that.
2016-06-10 21:48
1 hour 21 min ago
Recommended for promotion, welcome aboard cap'n