Claim type: Interior
Claim ID: TR_i3-782-Imp (#2761)
Faction: Imperial
Parent claim: TR_3-24-Imp (#128)
Claimed by: Ragox
Status: Approved (Progress: 100%)
Local map: Dondril watchtower Indoril-Thirr
Location: 1:(853, -2417):0
Files: TR_i3-782-Imp_Ragox_1.esp; TR_i3-782-Imp_Ragox_2.esp
---
HIGH PRIORITY - Dondril watchtower, bottom floor (see local map).
Dondril, Craftmer's Hall: Dondril, through its outlying fields, is associated with St. Meris, patron of farmers and labourers. The technical purpose of this interior is that of a workshop used for work relating to farming and labour. Several ideas have been discussed for this (here: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24562): it could contain a small public shrine to St. Meris, (including one shrine activator), some beds for guards posted to the area, a greenhouse/apothecary area near the three windows, or preferably some combination or all of the above. Most importantly, though, it should reflect its primary purpose as described above. The challenge for the interior modder would be combining those features in a way that looks natural rather than eclectic.
I'd prefer if the claimant avoided adding a basement, though that can be negotiated. A more preferable alternative would be if the interior extended horizontally into the hillside, though I'm not sure if even that is necessary. This interior shouldn't be much larger than its outward appearance would suggest.
Make sure to download the most recent file here: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=24623 for the exterior; located in cell [9, -22].
Note: despite the claim's ID the town is Indoril (not Imperial) and uses the Velothi tileset
i3-782-Imp
Moderators: Seneca37, Lead Developers
I think you've pretty much nailed this interior; I really like how it looks, and it doesn't look eclectic to me at all.
That being said, I'm a little unsure about the smithy; Dondril already has one, and Meris isn't the patron saint of smiths: I believe 'laborer' is meant more in the sense of field labour and such.
I'd personally be fine with leaving it anyway, though, just because I like how it looks.
That being said, I'm a little unsure about the smithy; Dondril already has one, and Meris isn't the patron saint of smiths: I believe 'laborer' is meant more in the sense of field labour and such.
I'd personally be fine with leaving it anyway, though, just because I like how it looks.
TESAME: Clean
Fits exterior: Yes
Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No
Review:
-Lowered lighting
-Shrank size of potion bottles
-Lowered light_de_candle_12_64 and light_de_candle_red_01_64
-Added misc_com_bottle_15 to shelf
-Added health to bonemold_chuzei_helm
-Raised lock for TR_m3-782_chest_01 to 25
-Applied health to TR_a_ind_shield_01
-Applied health to TR_a_ind_boots
-Separated iron ore rocks to not bleed into one another
-Increased lock for TR_m3-782_chest_03
Comments Wonderfully done, Ragox. I especially love the apothecary area. Not much to fix with this one. I'll leave it to the final reviewer to determine the health of all the weapons and armor. The ones near the smithing area... not sure if they should be damaged armor or armor that was just repaired. Perhaps armor in a certain pile can be the "repaired" armor that has perfect health and armor in a different pile can be armor that has yet to be repaired, hence lowered health. I'll let the final reviewer decide.
Rating
Fits exterior: Yes
Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No
Review:
-Lowered lighting
-Shrank size of potion bottles
-Lowered light_de_candle_12_64 and light_de_candle_red_01_64
-Added misc_com_bottle_15 to shelf
-Added health to bonemold_chuzei_helm
-Raised lock for TR_m3-782_chest_01 to 25
-Applied health to TR_a_ind_shield_01
-Applied health to TR_a_ind_boots
-Separated iron ore rocks to not bleed into one another
-Increased lock for TR_m3-782_chest_03
Comments Wonderfully done, Ragox. I especially love the apothecary area. Not much to fix with this one. I'll leave it to the final reviewer to determine the health of all the weapons and armor. The ones near the smithing area... not sure if they should be damaged armor or armor that was just repaired. Perhaps armor in a certain pile can be the "repaired" armor that has perfect health and armor in a different pile can be armor that has yet to be repaired, hence lowered health. I'll let the final reviewer decide.
Rating
- Attachments
-
- Clean TR_i3-782-Ind_Ragox_1.esp
- TR_i3-782-Ind
- (27.67 KiB) Downloaded 211 times
[url=http://www.project-tamriel.com/]Project Tamriel[/url]
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."
I agree with Gnomey, the smithing area really doesn't fit with this town. These people are very poor. There is already a smith in town (with a tiny fire). The guards wear bonemold, so I'm unsure where all this iron armor came from. So, I'd like to see the smithing area repurposed.
Please use my file below, I've made a bunch of fixes to this interior already.
Adjusted NorthMarker (345 → 356)
Dirty file - removed activators
Fixed overlap issue at the entrance
Removed all the in_velothismall_column_02(s) and replaced with appropriate sections that had columns.
Replaced bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit with TR_bk_GospelofSaintMeris.
Created container TR_Com_Basket_01_RPos – with Random Dunmer Possessions (this will be included in the next tr_data update)
Changed com_sack_02_ingred with com_sack_02_chpfood3
Replaced tr_cont_de_vase_02 (empty) with tr_cont_de_vase_02_food
TR_m3-782_chest_04 – way too much stuff in here – reduced # of potions, only 1 skill book
One possible use for this area would be a basket making/repair area.
A table or two with furn_de_shack_baskets scattered about. I'd guess that wicketwheat would be used to create the baskets. Maybe some hay on the floor would be appropriate too.
Please use my file below, I've made a bunch of fixes to this interior already.
Adjusted NorthMarker (345 → 356)
Dirty file - removed activators
Fixed overlap issue at the entrance
Removed all the in_velothismall_column_02(s) and replaced with appropriate sections that had columns.
Replaced bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit with TR_bk_GospelofSaintMeris.
Created container TR_Com_Basket_01_RPos – with Random Dunmer Possessions (this will be included in the next tr_data update)
Changed com_sack_02_ingred with com_sack_02_chpfood3
Replaced tr_cont_de_vase_02 (empty) with tr_cont_de_vase_02_food
TR_m3-782_chest_04 – way too much stuff in here – reduced # of potions, only 1 skill book
One possible use for this area would be a basket making/repair area.
A table or two with furn_de_shack_baskets scattered about. I'd guess that wicketwheat would be used to create the baskets. Maybe some hay on the floor would be appropriate too.
- Attachments
-
- Clean TR_i3-782-Ind_Ragox_1.esp
- (27.26 KiB) Downloaded 214 times
Okay. I've been busy with real life stuff and haven't done any modding-related tasks in months, unfortunately.seneca37 wrote:Yes - If Ragox would like to re-work the smithing area that would be great. Otherwise I'll take care of it myself.
I'll review this interior last.
[url=http://www.project-tamriel.com/]Project Tamriel[/url]
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."
"If one is to understand the arcane arts, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Mages Guild."
-
Yeti
- Lead Developer
- Posts: 2061
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:50 pm
- Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes
If it's not too much trouble, would it be possible to have this reviewed sooner than that? I'd like to finish readjusting Dondril's NPCs and dialogue in the near future, and need a finished version of the watchtower to do so.
It's good to see you around again, Tes96. Don't worry about not having time to mod at the moment. That happens to all of us at some point or another.
It's good to see you around again, Tes96. Don't worry about not having time to mod at the moment. That happens to all of us at some point or another.
-Head of NPCs: [url=http://www.shotn.com/forums/]Skyrim: Home of the Nords[/url]
-
Yeti
- Lead Developer
- Posts: 2061
- Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:50 pm
- Location: Minnesota: The Land of 11,842 Lakes
Gah! I completely forgot about this! And I was the one pushing for it to be finished... How foolish of me. I'll wrap up work on this by the end of the week. If I don't, may Almalexia herself strike me down where I stand.
-Head of NPCs: [url=http://www.shotn.com/forums/]Skyrim: Home of the Nords[/url]
Since Yeti never actually claimed this interior, and instead just volunteered to fix some small issues, I won't need to revoke it. If anyone is interested in revamping the smith area of this interior, just give a shout and you can have it. Otherwise, I'll make the changes myself if there are no responses within a week or two.
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
My idea for the smith in there was that she is mainly providing her services to the Indoril guards who also have a room in the same int, fixing their armors and weapons, but also offering some decent goods she makes when she's not required by them to any visitors.
So the issue with the smithy was that there is already another smith in the town. So I just had a look around all other ints and found Fothas Vorum's shack and apparently he is a smith who works in there (which is kinda weird IMO). Thing is the door to his shack is locked and he only offers a bunch of iron crap on the market.
I think that Dondril is big and important enough that it should have a proper smithy, especially since it has a rather large Indoril garrison and Vothas Vorum is clearly not suitable for maintaining their armor and weaponry in working order. And it would also make sense for that smith to be located in the same building that the Indoril guards reside in.
So I'd recommend that I make it more clear that she works mainly for the guards by placing some Indoril armor pieces in her working area. She wouldn't offer to sell any, of course. Additionally, she could also mention this in her dialogue.
So the issue with the smithy was that there is already another smith in the town. So I just had a look around all other ints and found Fothas Vorum's shack and apparently he is a smith who works in there (which is kinda weird IMO). Thing is the door to his shack is locked and he only offers a bunch of iron crap on the market.
I think that Dondril is big and important enough that it should have a proper smithy, especially since it has a rather large Indoril garrison and Vothas Vorum is clearly not suitable for maintaining their armor and weaponry in working order. And it would also make sense for that smith to be located in the same building that the Indoril guards reside in.
So I'd recommend that I make it more clear that she works mainly for the guards by placing some Indoril armor pieces in her working area. She wouldn't offer to sell any, of course. Additionally, she could also mention this in her dialogue.
Ah, that does explain why the smithy is there, but I'm still not sure whether it should be.
For one thing, Dondril doesn't really have a garrison of Indoril guards; the guards patrolling Dondril are garrisoned at Roa Dyr, the locals simply provide them places to sleep while they are patrolling.
What that means is that stuff like the personal belongings of the guards are mostly kept in Roa Dyr, but also that most of the equipment maintenance and such would also be handled at Roa Dyr, aside from rare field repairs.
As far as Fothus Vorum is concerned, he does have a smithy behind his shack. For an agriculturally-focused village like Dondril, his selection is, if anything, more than adequate, though he should perhaps sell some misc junk like shears as well.
Dondril isn't really big and important, even in terms of Velothi towns. It doesn't have a tradehouse or proper temple for one thing. It's a sizable shack village, but still a shack village. Velothi towns -- at least in Indoril land -- tend to be focused on the production of specific goods or produce -- in Dondril's case, agricultural produce -- which are then shifted around by the tollmer working from the castle-estate which controls the region.
They are not self-sufficient; any goods they do not produce themselves are -- assuming all is running properly -- directed to the village by the tollmer, generally to the village's tradehouse, but as Dondril doesn't have a local tradehouse to the local market. Slaves are naturally one of those goods, and metal tools would typically be another, though Dondril is actually more self-sufficient than most Velothi towns and can produce its tools locally, only requiring shipments of metal ingots to be imported.
All of that being said, I do like the smithy, and even if it isn't strictly necessary it wouldn't be out of place for the locals to go above and beyond to care for the Indoril guards and provide them with a smith while they are on patrol.
My main issue is that the smithy takes away space that could be used to more clearly show Dondril's agricultural focus, for example a basket weaving area. While this interior is largely multi-purpose, at it's core it is the Craftmer's Hall of an agriculturally focused Velothi village, and that focus isn't really clear from looking at the interior, in my opinion.
For one thing, Dondril doesn't really have a garrison of Indoril guards; the guards patrolling Dondril are garrisoned at Roa Dyr, the locals simply provide them places to sleep while they are patrolling.
What that means is that stuff like the personal belongings of the guards are mostly kept in Roa Dyr, but also that most of the equipment maintenance and such would also be handled at Roa Dyr, aside from rare field repairs.
As far as Fothus Vorum is concerned, he does have a smithy behind his shack. For an agriculturally-focused village like Dondril, his selection is, if anything, more than adequate, though he should perhaps sell some misc junk like shears as well.
Dondril isn't really big and important, even in terms of Velothi towns. It doesn't have a tradehouse or proper temple for one thing. It's a sizable shack village, but still a shack village. Velothi towns -- at least in Indoril land -- tend to be focused on the production of specific goods or produce -- in Dondril's case, agricultural produce -- which are then shifted around by the tollmer working from the castle-estate which controls the region.
They are not self-sufficient; any goods they do not produce themselves are -- assuming all is running properly -- directed to the village by the tollmer, generally to the village's tradehouse, but as Dondril doesn't have a local tradehouse to the local market. Slaves are naturally one of those goods, and metal tools would typically be another, though Dondril is actually more self-sufficient than most Velothi towns and can produce its tools locally, only requiring shipments of metal ingots to be imported.
All of that being said, I do like the smithy, and even if it isn't strictly necessary it wouldn't be out of place for the locals to go above and beyond to care for the Indoril guards and provide them with a smith while they are on patrol.
My main issue is that the smithy takes away space that could be used to more clearly show Dondril's agricultural focus, for example a basket weaving area. While this interior is largely multi-purpose, at it's core it is the Craftmer's Hall of an agriculturally focused Velothi village, and that focus isn't really clear from looking at the interior, in my opinion.
So we need a basket weaving area in the most important building of the village? By the way, where do they get the reed to make them from? I've never seen any. And where are all the other basket makers in Morrowind? There sure are a lot of baskets around. You try too hard to make things realistic IMO. Environmental storytelling is great, but it should never be put before the gameplay itself. A smithy is something a player can interact with in a useful way at least.
Yes, because that's how Velothi villages are. This isn't for realism; I don't think we need to consistently show these sort of details across the province. I think these details are important for establishing the character of Velothi villages.
And it's also important for gameplay; Velothi towns aren't great places to buy and sell stuff. They work with a barter economy, and are generally quite poor; you typically just have a few peddlars with very limited and more often than not useless goods on offer and a tradehouse. If there is a temple, you can get some more useful services there. Velothi villages are essentially hick villages. They create a stark contrast to places like House settlements including the Indoril castle-estates, which often have specialized and skilled laborers, and especially places like Almalexia, which will have a blinding array of goods, many of them quite precious.
This is the exact same principal as the various halls in the St. Delyn and St. Olms cantons of Vivec; Brewers and Fishmongers, Farmers and Laborers, Tailors and Dyers, Tanners and Miners, Potters and Glassworkers. Those don't exist anywhere else on Vvardenfell. Does that mean those activities are only carried out in Vivec? No, that would be silly, because those activities are necessary to support Dunmer society. They are only present in Vivec in-game because they're only worth being shown in Vivec in game.
Those cantons are where most of the non-House affiliated Dunmer live in Vivec, in other words the Velothi.
All of those activities [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lives-saints]are linked to patron saints[/url]: respectively, Seryn and Felms for Brewers and Fishmongers, Meris for Farmers and Laborers, Llothis for Tailors and Dyers, Aralor for Tanners and Miners, Delyn for Potters and Glassmakers.
For the Velothi class, which toil to provide Morrowind with much of its goods and produce, those are not mundane activities. Those are their function and reason to exist in Tribunal society. By weaving baskets or whatever mundane tasks, they're showing devotion to their particular patron saint, to the Tribunal and to Dunmer society as a whole. It's super important.
As for the reeds, I'd use the wickwheat bundles; they presumably use stalks from the plants they grow in the fields.
And it's also important for gameplay; Velothi towns aren't great places to buy and sell stuff. They work with a barter economy, and are generally quite poor; you typically just have a few peddlars with very limited and more often than not useless goods on offer and a tradehouse. If there is a temple, you can get some more useful services there. Velothi villages are essentially hick villages. They create a stark contrast to places like House settlements including the Indoril castle-estates, which often have specialized and skilled laborers, and especially places like Almalexia, which will have a blinding array of goods, many of them quite precious.
This is the exact same principal as the various halls in the St. Delyn and St. Olms cantons of Vivec; Brewers and Fishmongers, Farmers and Laborers, Tailors and Dyers, Tanners and Miners, Potters and Glassworkers. Those don't exist anywhere else on Vvardenfell. Does that mean those activities are only carried out in Vivec? No, that would be silly, because those activities are necessary to support Dunmer society. They are only present in Vivec in-game because they're only worth being shown in Vivec in game.
Those cantons are where most of the non-House affiliated Dunmer live in Vivec, in other words the Velothi.
All of those activities [url=http://www.imperial-library.info/content/lives-saints]are linked to patron saints[/url]: respectively, Seryn and Felms for Brewers and Fishmongers, Meris for Farmers and Laborers, Llothis for Tailors and Dyers, Aralor for Tanners and Miners, Delyn for Potters and Glassmakers.
For the Velothi class, which toil to provide Morrowind with much of its goods and produce, those are not mundane activities. Those are their function and reason to exist in Tribunal society. By weaving baskets or whatever mundane tasks, they're showing devotion to their particular patron saint, to the Tribunal and to Dunmer society as a whole. It's super important.
As for the reeds, I'd use the wickwheat bundles; they presumably use stalks from the plants they grow in the fields.
TESAME: Clean
Fits exterior: Yes
Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No
Review: Ambient/Sunlight/Fog/Illegal to Sleep Here: Good/Good/Good/Set
Correct Tileset: Yes
Books: Good
Container Contents: Good
In-game map: Good
Locks/Traps: Alright, however I lowered one lock from 80 to 50
Lights: Good
Sounds: None
Final Tesame Check: Good
BLEEDERS:
-furn_de_rug_02
-ingred_corkbulb_root_01
-bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit
-TR_cont_De_vase_02
-TR_furn_de_chair_02
-misc_com_wood_knife
-TR_chest_m3-782_01
-light_de_lamp_02_128
-light_de_candle_11_Off
-light_de_candle_15_off
-apparatus_a_mortar_01
-apparatus_a_alembic_01
-ingred_bc_bungler’s bane
-ingred_marshmerrow_01
-ingred_russula_01
-TR_flora_Alm_flower03c
FLOATERS:
-light_de_candle_red_01_64
-light_de_candle_12_64
-misc_com_bottle_10
-misc_com_wood_knife
-light_de_candle_04_64
-TR_sc_IndorilPropagandaleaflet
-com_basket_01_empty
-TR_barrel_m3-782_01
-light_de_candle_11_Off
-light_de_candle_06_off
-misc_shears_01
-ingred_bittergreen_petals_01
-ingred_roobrush_01
-ingred_comberry_01
-furn_planter_02
OTHER ISSUES:
-Fixed container I.D.’s
-Fixed the letter I.D.
-Removed an unnecessary script from TR_bk_m3-782_loveletter
-Fixed a caspering furn_de_p_shelf_02
Comments A very nice interior, Ragox!
Rating 9 out of 10
Fits exterior: Yes
Northmarker set: Yes
Loading errors: No
Review: Ambient/Sunlight/Fog/Illegal to Sleep Here: Good/Good/Good/Set
Correct Tileset: Yes
Books: Good
Container Contents: Good
In-game map: Good
Locks/Traps: Alright, however I lowered one lock from 80 to 50
Lights: Good
Sounds: None
Final Tesame Check: Good
BLEEDERS:
-furn_de_rug_02
-ingred_corkbulb_root_01
-bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit
-TR_cont_De_vase_02
-TR_furn_de_chair_02
-misc_com_wood_knife
-TR_chest_m3-782_01
-light_de_lamp_02_128
-light_de_candle_11_Off
-light_de_candle_15_off
-apparatus_a_mortar_01
-apparatus_a_alembic_01
-ingred_bc_bungler’s bane
-ingred_marshmerrow_01
-ingred_russula_01
-TR_flora_Alm_flower03c
FLOATERS:
-light_de_candle_red_01_64
-light_de_candle_12_64
-misc_com_bottle_10
-misc_com_wood_knife
-light_de_candle_04_64
-TR_sc_IndorilPropagandaleaflet
-com_basket_01_empty
-TR_barrel_m3-782_01
-light_de_candle_11_Off
-light_de_candle_06_off
-misc_shears_01
-ingred_bittergreen_petals_01
-ingred_roobrush_01
-ingred_comberry_01
-furn_planter_02
OTHER ISSUES:
-Fixed container I.D.’s
-Fixed the letter I.D.
-Removed an unnecessary script from TR_bk_m3-782_loveletter
-Fixed a caspering furn_de_p_shelf_02
Comments A very nice interior, Ragox!
Rating 9 out of 10
- Attachments
-
- TR_i3-782-Imp.esp
- (27.46 KiB) Downloaded 214 times
Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. –Albert Einstein
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others. -Ayn Rand
Uploaded the file below to the asset browser on the new site: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/asset/review ... -old-forum
Clean: Yes.
Northmarker: Present, rotated to match exterior.
Map: Good.
Lighting: Good.
Illegal to sleep here: Yes.
Bleeders:
apparatus_a_calcinator_01
bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit
bonemold_chuzei_helm
crate_02_empty
flora_bc_mushroom_03
furn_com_rm_table_04
furn_de_bannerpost_01
furn_de_basket_01
furn_de_p_table_04
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tray_01
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_lamp_02_128
misc_de_basket_01
p_water_walking_s
T_Mw_Com_Var_CrL1Ware
torch_128
T_Mw_Flora_Hornlilly01
Floaters:
apparatus_a_alembic_01
apparatus_a_mortar_01
furn_de_rug_01
ingred_bread_01
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_15_off
light_de_candle_15_off
Misc_Com_Bottle_08
misc_com_wood_knife
misc_com_wood_knife
Other:
Replaced furn_com_rm_table_04 with a pair of T_De_FurnM tables.
Adjusted the in_velothismall_rail_01 section to not casper.
Moved the shelves a bit closer to the walls.
Repositioned doors in their doorjambs.
Clean: Yes.
Northmarker: Present, rotated to match exterior.
Map: Good.
Lighting: Good.
Illegal to sleep here: Yes.
Bleeders:
apparatus_a_calcinator_01
bk_DoorsOfTheSpirit
bonemold_chuzei_helm
crate_02_empty
flora_bc_mushroom_03
furn_com_rm_table_04
furn_de_bannerpost_01
furn_de_basket_01
furn_de_p_table_04
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tapestry_06
furn_de_tray_01
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_lamp_02_128
misc_de_basket_01
p_water_walking_s
T_Mw_Com_Var_CrL1Ware
torch_128
T_Mw_Flora_Hornlilly01
Floaters:
apparatus_a_alembic_01
apparatus_a_mortar_01
furn_de_rug_01
ingred_bread_01
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_06_off
light_de_candle_15_off
light_de_candle_15_off
Misc_Com_Bottle_08
misc_com_wood_knife
misc_com_wood_knife
Other:
Replaced furn_com_rm_table_04 with a pair of T_De_FurnM tables.
Adjusted the in_velothismall_rail_01 section to not casper.
Moved the shelves a bit closer to the walls.
Repositioned doors in their doorjambs.
- Attachments
-
- TR_i3-782-Imp_reviewed.esp
- (27.65 KiB) Downloaded 416 times
transferred at
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/node/1116
http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/node/1116