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The OE EEC questline given by Aetia Nemisia (TR_m3_Aetia Nemesia, Old Ebonheart, East Empire Company) is a really fun questline with exciting ideas, but there are a few elements of its implementation that make it difficult for players to engage with its choices until its too late. The general thrust of the three quest questline (Letter of the Law [TR_m3_EEC_excise], Writ for Counterfeit [TR_m3_EEC_counterfeit], and Basement Declaration [TR_m3_EEC_curse]) is that Aetia Nemisia tasks you with helping her in criminal schemes, and you may either go along and be rewarded, or thwart her and be temporarily punished, only to receive a greater reward down the line.
I see two problems with the questline: First is that it is not always clear that there is an alternative to going along with her schemes. By contrast, in the Vanilla FG questline, Caius Cosades tells you that the FG is corrupt and that you shouldn't trust Eydis Fire-Eye, Lorbrumol gro-Aglakh, or Sjoring Hard-Heart, and Percius Mercius will tell you explicitly whether he thinks each contract is legitimate, signalling to the player that they do not have to be complicit in these schemes to complete the questline, and guiding them to alternative ways to complete quests. No such guidance exists for the OE EEC questline. I propose that Silver-Paws Ineni is a good candidate to play a sort of Percius Mercius role in the OE EEC.
The second problem is that it is frequently unclear that the action you are taking as a player is taking one side or another (core examples from Letter of the Law [TR_m3_EEC_excise]: There is a moral choice to lie about the weight of the eggs that it is unclear, on first playing, is a moral choice. Additionally, if you choose to confront Navil Drolnor [TR_m3_Navil Drolnor] about his smuggled dwemer artifacts, you atomatically and immediately turn him in, when players may have simply intended to fish for a confession or a bribe for silence as I was on my first playthrough).
Here are a list of perceived problems and proposed fixes:
1. Joining the OE EEC
Problem: Silver-Paws Ineni (TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni, Old Ebonheart, East Empire Company) should advise players that Aetia Nemisia is perceived by some as corrupt.
Fix: Add the following response to topic "join the East Empire Company": "If you want to join the company you should speak to the Factor, Aetia Nemesia, here in Old Ebonheart. Although, should you join, this one suggests you should be careful with her assignments." Requirements: ID: TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni; Function: Same Faction = 0;
Add the topic "Aetia Nemisia". Add the response: "It is unbefitting a humble clerk to speak of her boss this way with an unfamiliar acquaintance." Requirements: ID: TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni; Disp: 0
Add a second response to topic "Aetia Nemisia": "She is very well respected and brings in much with her business. However, this one sees and hears things. Unusual visitors come to her office and leave without a word. Some are grumbling she tarnishes our reputation. This one hears whispers that her enemies want her investigated. In truth, Silver-Paws is careful with her business, no, does not want her image tarnished, not when she is still so low in the company, so disposable. And so she is careful when following her assignments from Aetia Nemisia. She suggests you likewise take care of your reputation." Requirements: ID: TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni; Disp: 70
To ensure topic "Aetia Nemisia" can be added to Silver-Paws Ineni's dialogue options, add the following responses:
To "East Empire Company": "We are both members of the East Empire Company. Aetia Nemesia is the factor here in Old Ebonheart." Requirements: ID: TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni; Function: Same Faction = 1
To "assignment": "You can ask the Factor, Aetia Nemesia, for assignments. Do be careful completing her requests". Requirements: ID: TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni
2. Letter of the Law [TR_m3_EEC_excise]
Comments
Meant to save this and come
Meant to save this and come back to it later, didn't remember that "Save" = "Post". Anywho the thrust of my other suggestions was going to be having Silver-Paws Ineni give varying levels of advice for how to complete the quests in a way that thwarts Aetia Nemesia's schemes depending on Silver-Paws Ineni's disposition, reducing the fight level of the counterfeiters to 70 (rather than 100), creating a more clear-cut way to side with Aetia Nemisia in the quest "Basement Declaration," creating a more clear signal that the "borrowed scroll" would curse the Indoril Amulet (I think there's a clue in the Daedric writing, but I think there should be more breadcrumbs/pointers that the player should steal the amulet should they want to thwart Aetia Nemisia), and a few miscellaneous edits to smooth player experience in Letter of the Law
The direct inspiration for these edits are the mechanics of Vvardenfell's Fighters Guild questline and (to a lesser extent) Ranis Athrys' questline in the Balmora Mages' Guild.
I'll make a second post if this one isn't rejected out of hand, and if this doesn't belong in the bugtracker but should be posted somewhere else, or not posted at all, please do let me know.
OK, after a chat on the
OK, after a chat on the discord, I'm going to flesh out my thoughts on the other quests here and then let this sleepy dog lie.
2. Letter of the Law [TR_m3_EEC_excise]
Problem: It is easy to miss that there is anything interesting going on in this quest at all unless you know the weight of Kwama Eggs off-hand, which I'd argue most players don't. Running through the quest the first time, it just kind of seems like some farmer is getting hassled by zealous census agents, and there aren't many incentives to dig deeper or clues that anything serious is off. Worse, if you uncover the scheme at the heart of the quest, it is extremely easy to accidentally turn in the perpetrator. I think adding more pointers to guide the player to what interesting moral decisions they have to make would make the quest more fun.
Suggested fix: Silver-Paws Ineni should offer guidance. At low disposition (30), she should reply to topic "excise agent": "Silver-Paws Ineni hears that a farmer with fat kwama eggs has trouble with his paperwork. Very fat kwama eggs." And at high disposition (70): "Yes, Silver-Paws Ineni has heard of this overly scrupulous agent. She hears that this agent now is interrogating a humble kwama farmer for his paperwork. A trivial error, so common among peasants, she is sure.
[Continue]
And yet, Silver-Paws Ineni wonders at why such a busy company factor as Aetia Nemisia should worry herself with the bureaucratic snaggles of kwama farmers. To Silver-Paws Ineni, it is strange how attentive the factor is to such kwama egg shipments, how her eyes twinkle when she hears more have arrived. She should not say so, for it is just her imagination, you see, but sometimes, Silver-Paws Ineni sees these eggs being processed. Heavy, they look. And she swears she hears them jingle, like they are bells, not eggs. But is just her imagination, she is sure."
Both of these provide hints that maybe there's something fishy going on with these eggs, and that maybe they're heavier than usual, making it less likely players will offer the weight of "6" as the weight of the eggs, and more likely that they will investigate the suspicious shipment.
Problem: The player is given the option to lie about the egg weight, but it's not immediately clear that the decision they're making is a moral one. When speaking to Yngskar Pale-Trick (TR_m3_Yngskar_PaleTrick), it is too easy to think you are being quizzed on in-game trivia, or being given a question where you will be penalized for giving the wrong answer and rewarded for having the right answer. Players should be given leading bits of dialogue to guide them to the fact that they may or may not want to lie about the egg weight.
Fix: First, Porcilla Dythos (TR_m3_Porcilla Dythos) should emphasize to the player that kwama eggs are taxed by the pound when discussing Ignatius Jureilius' (TR_m3_Ignatius_J) work. A suggested edit response to "excise agent," with my edits in italics: "Oh, let me guess, it's about Ignatius. He was just assigned here from his agent training and doesn't have a firm grasp on how the real world works. He's shaking down poor merchants for pennies when he should be inspecting some real boats. I'll have a talk with him later, but for now I'll tell him we'll accept a flat tariff based off shipment weight. So long as we get the proper weight for those eggs, we don't need any extra paperwork from him, we can handle that on our end. I'm stuck here, but go find Yngskar Pale-Trick. He's a dockworker who should be able to give a reasonable tax estimate."
Then, when telling Yngskar Pale-Trick the egg weights, he should remark on the player's offered weight and give them an opportunity to back out of their decision by asking if they're sure that's the correct weight, to which the player may reply "Yes" or "No"
For "One," Yngskar Pale-Trick might reply: "Gosh, that sure is light for kwama eggs! His queen must be sick. You're sure you got that weight right?"
For "Two," he might reply: "Sounds about right! You're sure?"
For "Six," he might reply: "Woah there! Six? You're certain? Those are some seriously heavy eggs!"
Finally, if you speak to the "kwama farmer" Navil Drolnor (TR_m3_Navil_Drolnor) at either relevant quest stage (30 or 40), he might reply to "excise agent" with: "Listen, my kwama eggs have unusually heavy... shells. The queen has a condition. It's congenital. I got a bad deal, OK? I won't be able to survive if they tax me for their full weight. Can you help me out?" (This one might need editing for dialect, I'm thinking in my own words, I have no idea what mainland farmers talk like). Also might be worth considering gating a more forthcoming request behind higher disposition (80): "Listen, you work for Aetia Nemesia, right? She wants these eggs through, no questions asked. Just tell them they weigh one, noone will check so long as these eggs reach her hands."
Problem: If you discover the smuggled dwemer artifacts inside the eggs, you confusingly turn in Navil Drolnor (TR_m3_Navil_Drolnor) by speaking with him about "excise agent." This is wholly unexpected for the player for numerous reasons. When I was playing, I simply wanted to interrogate Navil Drolnor, see if he would give me dirt on my boss. I never would have considered turning him in to the authorities, nor would I have thought I would turn him in by talking to him.
Fix: You should be able to ask Navil Drolnor about the goblets. After you discover the Dwemer artifacts he might reply to the topic "excise agent" he might reply with: "Listen, you are playing with things you don't understand and you have no business asking questions about. I suggest, if you value your place in the company, you forget what you've seen and mind the assignments you've been given." Followed by an auto-goodbye (Obviously, in this rewrite, the 'I'm just a simple farmer, what do you mean I need paperwork' routine Navil gives at the start of the quest is more obviously a put-on to cover for his dealings with Aetia Nemesia).
Further, to turn in Navil, you should talk to Ignatius Jureilius (TR_m3_Ignatius_J) about "excise agent". He should reply "Yes? Is there something you need from me?" To which the player can reply [Navil Drolnor is smuggling Dwemer Artifacts] or [Nevermind].
Final Fixes:
Silver-Paws Ineni (TR_m3_Silver-Paws Ineni) should provide different answers for Excise Agent depending on how you complete the quest. For TR_m3_EEC_excise Journal Stage 70 (Aetia Nemesia is pleased), she should say something like "Silver-Paws Ineni saw that you helped the humble kwama farmer move his eggs through customes. This is good for business, Aetia Nemesia was very pleased." For journal stage 75 (Aetia Nemesia is not pleased), she should say something like "Silver-Paws Ineni heard that you uncovered one who would bring scandal on the company. It pleases her to work with one such as you with both acumen and honor."
Journal stages should be sure to include notes that will remind the player of the underlying moral dilemma -- things that Silver-Paws Ineni has said, things that indicate that they are being pressured to make a choice, and that they have a choice, in how/whether to get these eggs through customs. I'm still learning the journal system (and TES3CS generally), so I have no advice on how to do that, I just think it's important for players who leave a quest and then come back to it.
Additional considerations: I'm rewriting Silver-Paws Ineni as savvy and skilled in double-speak. It could also be fun to consider writing her as a terrified subordinate who barely dares whisper about her boss, after all, clerks are very replaceable. But I just like the savvy corporate gossip archetype, the diligent rising star who gets their way with whispers while being sure to protect their own neck. It also may be worth considering a more naive or sympathetic Navil Drolnor, a destitute farmer who's more a pawn than a player in Aetia Nemesia's schemes. Could provide greater player motivation to lie on his behalf.
3. Writ for Counterfeit [TR
3. Writ for Counterfeit [TR_m3_EEC_counterfeit]
The simple change of setting the Fight values on the counterfeiters (Arvs Reladren [TR_m3_Arvs_Reladren] and Senil Sedri [TR_m3_Senil_Sedri]) to 80 improves this quest enormously in my view. At a fight value of 80, players with disposition >50 will not be attacked, while players with disposition <50 will be attacked if they get too close. This rewards players for having high Personality. Fight values of 75 or 70 can also be used for more forgiving thresholds (Disposition must be >40 for Fight 78, >30 for Fight 76, >25 for Fight 75, etc.).
Other than that, I don't have any problems with this quest really. It's simple and runs smoothly. Adding dialogue for Silver-Paws Ineni could both flesh out the story and tip off players with lower personalities that it might be worth calming the frightened counterfeiters rather than killing them. Suggested replies for "counterfeiters": Low disposition (30): "Silver-Paws Ineni knows counterfeiters are very bad for buisiness. It does not surprise her that Aetia Nemesia wants them killed." High disposition (70): "The sewers of Old Ebonheart are good for hiding secrets, Silver-Paws Ineni knows this. A good place for counterfeiters, yes. But do not all people have secrets? Secrets they want buried in the sewers?
[Continue]
Silver-Paws Ineni shares this secret with you: That hooded messengers make brief visits to Aetia Nemesia. Very reserved messengers they are, quick, efficient, businesslike. They are good at their work, always going between without ever being in the way. Typical. But here is what's not typical: That Silver-Paws Ineni sees them leaving straight from Aetia Nemesia's office and disappearing down the Western Well to the sewers. This is very unseemly behavior for a messenger. Not good for business. Gives the appearance of carrying secrets. It causes Silver-Paws Ineni to wonder about what secrets those counterfeiters in the sewers might be carrying, what secrets they might share, if only you can convince them to talk."
This dialogue 1) Gives the player a heads up that the Western Well may be a quick way to the counterfeiters (I actually can't remember if it is, but it's gotta be quicker than the entrance by the docks!), and 2) advises the player that it may be worth calming the counterfeiters to talk to them. However, I also recognize that some people might not like the cryptic way I've written Silver-Paws speaking, and I honestly think this dialogue in particular needs another pass, it feels a little hokey as written (though I generally like the character as I've written so far).
Finally, I'm personally not a fan of the counterfeiters attacking if you tell them honestly you were sent to kill them, but that's highly subjective. Narratively it makes sense.
5. Basement Declaration [TR
5. Basement Declaration [TR_m3_EEC_curse]
Completing this quest in a way that thwarts Aetia Nemesia's schemes is difficult to the point I feel I must have missed a clue somewhere. What is the tip-off to remove the Indoril Amulet? Aetia Nemesia tells you "don't remove anything," but that's basically just an order not to steal, which seems like a fair enough request, I didn't spy any other hint that this scroll was going to curse the Indoril Amulet specifically.
One of my harder to implement critiques is that I think it should be possible to side with Aetia Nemesia (in line with being able to side with or against Sjoring Hard-Heart in the Vvardenfell FG, with or against Ranis Athrys at the Balmora MG, etc.). Allowing players to successfully side with Aetia Nemesia would take this questline from a sort of tallying of your final score on the questline and turn it into a series of decisions that you make with consequences (either to enrich yourself on the corruption of the company, or to try to clean house and incorporate yourself into a nevertheless exploitative imperial institution).
But the biggest problem for me is that there's no breadcrumb trail that leads you to uncovering the Indoril Amulet plan (unless I just missed it).
Suggestions for Silver-Paws Ineni: Low disposition (30): "Silver-Paws Ineni believes it is bad business to borrow without asking. She does not know whether it is good business to return without telling." High disposition (70): "Scrolls with Daedric script like this are dangerous. Unusual to borrow. Perhaps dangerous to give back. Silver-Paws Ineni suggests you consult with Hastophos Velifer, as she hears he knows about these things"
Hastophos Velifer (TR_m3_Hastophos Velifer), local necromancer and dark magic zaddy, will tell you that the scroll is tuned to curse an amulet of the kind worn by the Indoril.
Finally, on the desk by the ornate chest in Merxia Vendicci's house, put a letter to an Indoril Noble, I dunno, Indoril Ilvi, expressing grattitude for being welcomed to visit the sacred city of Roa Dyr and expressing a wish that the East Empire Company might be able to help the Lords of House Indoril in the future -- you know, Imperialists doing their darndest to pierce through the hard xeonphobic feudal shell of Indoril. Depending on what y'all have planned for EEC and Indoril, it can either come off as wishful thinking where the Indoril are humoring the Empire while maintaining the status quo or genuine moves towards connections between smoother EEC operators and more avaricious elements of Indoril. Idk, not for me to plan, just a thought. But the note would be the final smoking gun letting the player piece together the plan, after talking to Hastophos Velifer.
At this point, the player should be able to 1) Give the scroll directly to Merxia Vendicci, foiling the plan, 2) Place the scroll but remove the amulet, thwarting the plan in a way that also destroys the scroll as evidence, or 3) Curse the amulet.
Player then returns to the confrontation between Merxia Vendicci and Aetia Nemesia, and can either side with Merxia or Aetia. If the player always sided with Aetia's schemes or always thwarted Aetia's schemes, they should have their choice removed, otherwise they should be rewarded based on which option they pick and the number of schemes they supported/thwarted. Again, that's all a lot of work, but I think it makes it the most fun. I don't like being expelled instantly for siding with Aetia Nemesia, I think it's more fun (and in line with other Guild questlines, including the EEC on Solstheim) if players are allowed to successfully side with corruption.