If you want to work on OW assets you are free to do so. That would be really appreciated by everyone, as we can open more claims again as Shipal Shin ones have run out.
We have already had the time waster template meeting for OW so we know what we want out of the region.
There's really not a need to be so defensive Tani. This doesn't need to immediately become an argument. It is possible to have a discussion with someone who holds a different view, believe it or not.
But anyways, If you scroll up and check, I've stated multiple times that I hope ITO succeeds and have even claimed an interior from it.
So far I'm cautiously optimistic about it in fact. But despite this, I do share concerns with others about potential problems like spreading ourselves too thin, throwing out recent work and causing fights, re-do projects snowballing and succumbing to feature creep etc. Etc. Etc. I listed them more thoroughly in my initial post here.
But hey, I'm just voicing an opinion. I'm not as invested as other people here. You and Cicero are more than free to handwave any and all opposing opinions as "doomsaying" or whatever, it's your guy's project after all.
We've seen that ITO has allowed us to have more project engagement than without it. Randompal is a new dev because of ITO. Came over from MMC just to work on firewatch.
You and Cicero are more than free to handwave any and all opposing opinions as "doomsaying" or whatever, it's your guy's project after all.
Tyrant, you keep bringing up this doom thing but I've never said anything of the kind. In fact I was also opposed to the idea of redoing Thirr Valley.
And I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am frustrated at the blatantly false information you keep stating as fact. Like that the TR map "hasn't changed in years". Just totally untrue stuff that doesn't help this conversation.
A lot of stuff is getting mixed together in this discussion. Vern was the only one to mention doom saying in this thread before Tyrant brought it up, though I know Cicero's made those sort of comments before. Can't think of any times you have Tani. I hope Jani's post doesn't get lost in all of this discussion, where he pointed out that we haven't actually discussed prioritization and timeline yet and that that's a step that still needs to come, prospectively on the 15th. (It will be easier to assess the amount of work an Indoril region redo would actually require after the SS template meeting, so that we can properly weigh our options).
Long story short, the concerns are noted, and yes, I specifically made note that people should voice concerns if they have them, whether they were present in the meetings or follow Discord discussions or not. I do really encourage people with misgivings to try to make the meetings, though, as in the end we need to decide on stuff, and the meetings lend themselves to decision making, the voice meetings are a lot more relaxed than these discussions, and while I try to consider and bring up arguments of people not present in the meetings it's really hard to advocate other peoples' views effectively.
Tyrant, you keep bringing up this doom thing but I've never said anything of the kind. In fact I was also opposed to the idea of redoing Thirr VValley
That line has been thrown around a bit lately here and on disc, seemingly as a counter to anyone not enthusiastic about re-do's. If that wasn't you, then apologies.
And again, for the record, I'm not 100% against redo's. I'm merely very cautious about them, and think it would be easy to get carried away with them, or run into a myriad of other potential issues we should take seriously.
And I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am frustrated at the blatantly false information you keep stating as fact. Like that the TR map "hasn't changed in years". Just totally untrue stuff that doesn't help this conversation.
Ok, is "has changed very little in years" better? Of course that's subjective, but let's put it this way: if the average person downloaded TR in 2010, and imagined what TR would look like after 11 more years of development, do you think based on the map that we're farther along than what that hypothetical person might imagine? I doubt it.
Yes Tani, this is slow work, and there's a lot of great, time consuming content that doesn't necessarily show on the world map: quests, NPC's etc. But still, it's not surprising TR is not uncommonly referred to as a 'dead mod' by the average passerby.
But I don't want to digress too far. You mentioned earlier that this "isn't a binary choice". I think you might want to take your own advice to heart: you don't have to be completely for or against doing re-do's completely.
You can be supportive of a re-do, while also being cautious and concerned about it, and voicing those concerns.
The ITO overall looks promising so far. Hopefully it keeps up momentum, and lives up to all the optimistic promises made on its behalf on discord: "it won't slow down the next release, it will raise morale, it will get done quickly, it will recruit more modders, it will slice bread, it will cure malaria etc."
Anyways, I've basically voiced all my concerns up to this point.
Actually, if someone from 2010 wanted to extrapolate TR progress to 2021, they might roughly end up where we are now. By 2010, TR has been working for 9 years, and they only managed to release map 1, and half of map 2. These areas have roughly 50% of current TR quest content, and 50% of exterior cells. The other 50% for both these categories were finished as part of the Sacred East, OE, and Aanthirin releases by 2019, so 9 years into the future from 2010. If you disregard the dip in productivity between 2013-2016, and the spike from 2017 onwards, TR actually follows a linear trend since 2001.
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2016-01-25 21:01
1 hour 17 min ago
If you want to work on OW assets you are free to do so. That would be really appreciated by everyone, as we can open more claims again as Shipal Shin ones have run out.
We have already had the time waster template meeting for OW so we know what we want out of the region.
2016-09-18 05:23
2 years 10 months ago
There's really not a need to be so defensive Tani. This doesn't need to immediately become an argument. It is possible to have a discussion with someone who holds a different view, believe it or not.
But anyways, If you scroll up and check, I've stated multiple times that I hope ITO succeeds and have even claimed an interior from it.
So far I'm cautiously optimistic about it in fact. But despite this, I do share concerns with others about potential problems like spreading ourselves too thin, throwing out recent work and causing fights, re-do projects snowballing and succumbing to feature creep etc. Etc. Etc. I listed them more thoroughly in my initial post here.
But hey, I'm just voicing an opinion. I'm not as invested as other people here. You and Cicero are more than free to handwave any and all opposing opinions as "doomsaying" or whatever, it's your guy's project after all.
Anyways, All the best.
2016-01-25 21:01
1 hour 17 min ago
We've seen that ITO has allowed us to have more project engagement than without it. Randompal is a new dev because of ITO. Came over from MMC just to work on firewatch.
2016-08-28 05:22
16 hours 25 min ago
Tyrant, you keep bringing up this doom thing but I've never said anything of the kind. In fact I was also opposed to the idea of redoing Thirr Valley.
And I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am frustrated at the blatantly false information you keep stating as fact. Like that the TR map "hasn't changed in years". Just totally untrue stuff that doesn't help this conversation.
2016-01-25 21:01
1 hour 17 min ago
Also, this isn't anyone's or handful of people's project. The person who could claim this is their project left a long time ago.
Will note that I have not wanted to Redo Thirr Valley. I don't think anyone has advocated for it.
2015-08-10 20:50
3 weeks 1 day ago
A lot of stuff is getting mixed together in this discussion. Vern was the only one to mention doom saying in this thread before Tyrant brought it up, though I know Cicero's made those sort of comments before. Can't think of any times you have Tani. I hope Jani's post doesn't get lost in all of this discussion, where he pointed out that we haven't actually discussed prioritization and timeline yet and that that's a step that still needs to come, prospectively on the 15th. (It will be easier to assess the amount of work an Indoril region redo would actually require after the SS template meeting, so that we can properly weigh our options).
Long story short, the concerns are noted, and yes, I specifically made note that people should voice concerns if they have them, whether they were present in the meetings or follow Discord discussions or not. I do really encourage people with misgivings to try to make the meetings, though, as in the end we need to decide on stuff, and the meetings lend themselves to decision making, the voice meetings are a lot more relaxed than these discussions, and while I try to consider and bring up arguments of people not present in the meetings it's really hard to advocate other peoples' views effectively.
2016-09-18 05:23
2 years 10 months ago
That line has been thrown around a bit lately here and on disc, seemingly as a counter to anyone not enthusiastic about re-do's. If that wasn't you, then apologies.
And again, for the record, I'm not 100% against redo's. I'm merely very cautious about them, and think it would be easy to get carried away with them, or run into a myriad of other potential issues we should take seriously.
Ok, is "has changed very little in years" better? Of course that's subjective, but let's put it this way: if the average person downloaded TR in 2010, and imagined what TR would look like after 11 more years of development, do you think based on the map that we're farther along than what that hypothetical person might imagine? I doubt it.
Yes Tani, this is slow work, and there's a lot of great, time consuming content that doesn't necessarily show on the world map: quests, NPC's etc. But still, it's not surprising TR is not uncommonly referred to as a 'dead mod' by the average passerby.
But I don't want to digress too far. You mentioned earlier that this "isn't a binary choice". I think you might want to take your own advice to heart: you don't have to be completely for or against doing re-do's completely.
You can be supportive of a re-do, while also being cautious and concerned about it, and voicing those concerns.
The ITO overall looks promising so far. Hopefully it keeps up momentum, and lives up to all the optimistic promises made on its behalf on discord: "it won't slow down the next release, it will raise morale, it will get done quickly, it will recruit more modders, it will slice bread, it will cure malaria etc."
Anyways, I've basically voiced all my concerns up to this point.
Hopefully that's clarified sufficiently.
2016-01-25 21:01
1 hour 17 min ago
Will say I don't think many people were expecting the self decapitation in the middle of that 11 years.
2017-10-08 01:57
58 sec ago
Actually, if someone from 2010 wanted to extrapolate TR progress to 2021, they might roughly end up where we are now. By 2010, TR has been working for 9 years, and they only managed to release map 1, and half of map 2. These areas have roughly 50% of current TR quest content, and 50% of exterior cells. The other 50% for both these categories were finished as part of the Sacred East, OE, and Aanthirin releases by 2019, so 9 years into the future from 2010. If you disregard the dip in productivity between 2013-2016, and the spike from 2017 onwards, TR actually follows a linear trend since 2001.
2017-10-08 01:57
58 sec ago
Blue: TR, with a 2022 DOD release.
Red: Morrowind GoTY
2016-09-18 05:23
2 years 10 months ago
"I did the math"
- Jani.
Nice graph. Should use that for marketing.
Props to the questers.
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