EDIT 2: Fixed.
EDIT: It seems putting in spoiler tags fucked up my quotes. I'll fix them soon.
In the near future, I would like us to finalize a general concept for what we Indoril Chapels (formely known as Castle Estates) should look like. Progress on settlements like Roa Dyr requires a framework for what buildings and NPCs are found in all Indoril Chapels. What are their roles and purposes? And what layout features should most Indoril Chapels share?
To help faciliate discussion, I’ve gathered together relevent posts from the old forums that touch on the subject. Important points to address include the names and roles for the indvidual structures discussed in Swiftoak and Gnomey’s posts, along with how they should be arranged.
Do you have more recent thoughts on this topic, Gnomey?
Sload: Indoril Society (Proposal) - 4 June 2014
The Indoril do not live among the people they rule. They live in their castle-estates, dispersed throughout the wilderness of their lands or in the great city of the Mourning Hold.
…
The castle-estates of the Indoril are in the Mournhold style. They are not as numerous as the townships, but because of their vertical orientation and majestic form, they are more visually prominent in the distance. They will not have services for the player unless the player is a member of House Indoril. Each that exists needs to be thought out and they should not be especially numerous (on the order of a half dozen to ten)
Sload: Indoril Castle-Estates – June 17, 2014
Basics
The castle-estates should be regarded as very large, self-sufficient houses. There should be minimal individualized, private spaces - such as homes and shops. Everything should be oriented around service to the Indoril lords: public squares should be the courtyards and entry-plazas of the Indoril's castle; work spaces should be situated in relation to the Indoril's castle, not the worker's abode. Above all, these are not towns.
Each castle-estate has a name which is unrelated to the name of the family which holds it.
Visual/Spatial Design
The castle-estates should be fortified and imposing. They should have walls and gates, they should tower over the landscape, if possible. They should visually and geographically represent the rule of the lord over the surrounding territory.
They should not be open. If a castle-estate is located at a crossroads, it is above, overlooking, controlling the crossroad, not directly at it, allowing the traders and pilgrims and what not to pass through the heart of the castle-estate. While they may have more than one entrance, it should not be the logical route along a road to pass through the gates of the castle-estate.
NPCs
The NPCs in each castle-estate must all have a clear relation to the Indoril lord who rules it.
- They might be the Indoril themselves, each castle-estate must have a small number of Indoril who rule.
- They might be their sworn guards, who protect the castle walls and establish order within the castle.
- They might be their servants, either their house servants who wait on the Indoril, or those who do some craft in the Indoril's service.
- They might be their Apologists (name open to change), members of the Temple order which serves the religious need of this particular Indoril family. Each castle-estate has an order like this.
Services
Castle-estates should offer no services to non-Indoril players. No one who would offer services should have the presentation of a "shop," their activities should be presented as being done, for free, for the Indoril lord. Once players are full members of House Indoril, they can use their services (which will be barter just like any other service, let's not overdo it).
The castle-estates should not generally have fast travel, and if they do, they should not be central nodes, but rather off-shoots. It should be a decision the player makes to visit a castle-estate, whereas they are more likely to pass through the Velothi villages as they cross Indoril lands. Some castle-estates will have to have fast travel (in Gorne, for example, it is necessary), but this should be done with intentionality and caution.
Number and location
Every castle-estate is ruled by an Indoril Lay Elder (or Illuminated Elder, if that elder serves in the Serene Assembly). Each castle-estate should be said to rule a certain extent of territory around it. There may be a few castle-estates that are very small (essentially large manors) and that rule only a small area, but these should be few.
The placement of castle-estates should be preplanned across all Indoril territory.
Yeti: Indoril Castle-Estates – June 18, 2014
Outlanders should show up sparingly. The Great Houses on Vvardenfell employed them in noticeable numbers, but they weren't as socially cloistered as the Indoril are. But since the Indoril are fine with putting the player to work, they shouldn't be completely against employing other outlanders as well. I assume they'd end up working the menial courier jobs, or filling in a specific craftsmen niche.
Swiftoak – Indoril Castel-Estates – June 21, 2014
For worldspace design, I very much think keeping the building count on the low end (I would go even less than 10) will emphasize the uniqueness of MH architecture. That's not to say the estate can have more sections than structures, but I prefer something more consolidated and integrated. These are estates, not castles with a few buildings around them. I don't think this is the most important issue atm though.
Swiftoak – Indoril Castel-Estates – July 16, 2014
Super rough proposal detailing the various aspects of a typical Indoril estate. Obviously this can be flexible as to avoid being monontous/formulaic. This also does not necessarily mean number of buildings. Actual layout can vary between a few structures and a single structure. These are just typical sections.
Edit for clarification: The following is just a specific example of how this could play out. What I want to emphasize is not any particular forumla or layout, but what (generally) composes of a (typical) castle estate, and their function.
Main Keep/Manor/Residence: This is pretty self-explanatory. This is the residence of the local Elder, and their immediate family. Fortified and well-guarded. For the most part, this should be the most isolated, inaccessible aspect of the castle.
NPCs: Illuminated/Lay Elder, Family members, servants (possibly service NPCs too) and slaves.Services: Elders usually have personal services. These services should not be merchants, and the services should be tailored explicitly to the needs of the Elder and his family. These can be housed in a seperate building or attached to the main keep (perhaps in smaller estates). I don't think these should be "shops" either, or have a very merchantile nature to them. (IE the blacksmith maintains the needs of the elder and their garrison, the alchemist would tend to the needs of the family (the goods they offer should be tailored accordingly) etc.) No general-purpose merchants.
NPCs: Service people, apprentices, possibly also servants themselves if not in the main keep.
Hall of Delyn's Creed:This is basically the audience chamber of the estate, and perhaps the only part of the estate where local serfs can bring forth their grievances. However, the Illuminated Elder does not hold audience here, prefering to entrust such affairs to a subordinate (probably a relative of lesser stock). This sub-ordinate should be a Keeper of Delyn's Creed, upholding both the laws Ordained and Determined in the name of the Triunes and the local soverign. This should be placed at the periphery of the estate at a location which is accessible. Probably a low key structure, or the entrance hall of a smaller estate.
NPCs: Keeper of Delyn's Creed (could be any rank between Creedman and Concordant Minister), their clerks and stewards.Sanctum of the Apologists: Basically the place of worship for the local Elders. This could be a seperate chapel or basically a room in the main structure. Also houses residences for temple servants.
NPCs: Temple clergy.Barracks: Pretty self-explanatory. The castle garrison. I would assume the local prison would also be here.
NPCs: Guards, blacksmith possibly, prisoners, an accorder or partisan to head the local garrison.
Gnomey – Indoril Castle-Estates – July 19, 2014
I personally think Indoril castle estates should serve as prisons in Indoril lands, as Imperial forts will be understandably lacking in the area. They should as such all have jails. I'm assuming that Almalexia will also have a prison. I'm thinking that Indoril castle estates should generally not serve as Almsivi Intervention locations; temples in the Velothi towns and Almalexia would probably suffice.
Gnomey – Indoril Castle-Estates – August 6, 2014
First of all, Ayemar, while rather small, basically gets every point right in my opinion, so it can be used as a reference in lieu of my plugin.
1. I think Indoril Castle Estates should always be monolithic structures. Everything should be a visual extension of the central residence. I think curtain walls should be avoided when possible, and when present should generally be rather low, so as not to distract from the residence.
This would also set the castle estates apart from Imperial forts, which are little bubbles of Imperialism in a hostile land. For castle estates, the surrounding lands are basically the garden.Estates in Lan Orethan could be a bit of an exception, often having walled-off courtyards. (They really would be closed-off bubbles, like Imperial forts). The surrounding walls would not so much be for protection from siege as for blocking out the outside world, though.
When discussing Indoril Castle Estates a long while back on IRC (specifically Akamora) Sload mentioned Pyke from Game of Thrones, which I think illustrates this point rather well. Japanese castles also tend to do a better job of illustrating this point than European castles.Tibetan fortresses might provide the best examples, though.
2. related to the above, Indoril Castle Estates should be imposing and intimidating structures, but I don't think they need to necessarily be very fortified. Indoril lands are probably the safest in Morrowind, especially for Indoril nobles. I think Indoril Castle Estates should be palaces first, fortresses second.
Estates in the Mephalain mountains could be a bit of an exception, being more fortified and martial in nature. Roa Dyr could also be an exception, in which case it was probably more recently fortified due to Hlaalu gaining the land on the other side of the Thirr.
3. Indoril Castle Estates should not be square or rectangular. The Mournhold tileset seems prone next only to the Imperial tileset to make developers forget to ever turn off grid and angle-snap. I object to the practice for the sophisticated reason of thinking that the resulting structures tend to look boring. When using symmetry, I'd prefer if triangles (which nicely illustrate the Indoril noble's piety), circles (which nicely illustrate the Indoril noble's ego-centrism) and other shapes (like Ayemar's pentagonal courtyard, or a star fort for all I care) were used. I think organic shapes work best, though, as seen in Roa Dyr.
As for interiors, the following seem sensible to me. Not all need to be present in every castle estate, even partially, and they should probably never all be present as individual structures. The names are naturally open to change. There can also be other interiors, if additional interiors makes sense for the specific castle estate. (Like a dock house if the estate is on the waterside).
Residence: obviously where the noble lives.
Barracks: often a guard tower. Where the guards sleep.
Jail: usually included in the barracks. Very important, as this is where the player gets sent when he commits a crime in Indoril lands.
Hall of Craftsmer: where the craftsmen of the castle, such as the blacksmith, work, though the blacksmith's forge could equally well be located in the barracks.
Hall of Toilmer: where all of the servants (as opposed to slaves) sleep and eat. Often merged with the Hall of Craftsmer.
Hall of Tollmer: the offices of the court bureaucrats who oversee things like regional trade.
Hall of Delyn's Creed: as Swiftoak described it. This should always be on the periphery of the estate, whether it's a separate structure (as I think it usually should be) or not.
Council-hall: this is the audience chamber for people the noble actually wants to meet personally, generally peers. When not the residence's main entry, this would be located in a nice spot such as a garden. I personally think this could also often be an outdoors thing, for example under an EX_MH_bazaar_booth_01. Pagodas are also rather good for this purpose, though too small for larger meetings.
Sanctum of the Apologists: just as Swiftoak described.
Shrine: where the noble performs any religious rights personally. Often either a room in the manor or connected to the Sanctum of the Apologists. (Or, naturally, both). Not having a personal shrine would be frowned upon. Not using it at all, leaving that to the apologists, would be general practice, at least in some places.
Slave's quarters: I think these are best located in Velothi cave-dwellings just outside of the manor but within easy view of the barracks, if not necessarily the main manor. (Out of sight, out of mind, after all).
Swiftoak – New Roa Dyr Design – August 15, 2014
I was away all week and I should have mentioned this. I think servants should live in the basement level of the main structure, rather than a separate structure. And the basement should be done in the to-be-made foundational set. Having them live in opulent-MH style buildings goes against the plan we approved for Indoril.
Also, the "Hall of Delyn's Creed" should be called the "Chapel's Entryway". Technically all Indoril above the Creedmer rank are k.C.D (the mention of Delyn's hall in my originalo proposal was a mistake). I like the idea of having a separate non-rank title for the estate's steward. Also this should be the only building outside the estate proper.
Gnomey – New Roa Dyr Design – August 15, 2014
While I understand your argument, I think this building is small enough and its interior looks poor enough. Its being in the MH set should reflect more on Ilvi's wealth than the servants', as the building is his property even if it is a stand-alone structure at the edge of his estate.
I also have the more practical concern that the foundational set still needs to be made, including the two or three exterior pieces, and making it a requirement for castle estates would tighten the bottleneck on progress in Indoril lands even further.
Gnomey – New Roa Dyr Design – August 16, 2014
A lot of the buildings you removed have specific roles in the castle-estate, and would need to be replaced. The ceremonial roles of those buildings as well as the gardens are far more important features for Indoril castle-estates than fields or the like. Castle-estates are Indoril utopias. Form over function.
Castle-estates do not need to highlight the gap between Indoril rich and poor. Castle-estates are sanctuaries for the rich; gated communities. The poor are not wanted, except to directly serve the lord. Fields and mines are not to mar the noble's view over the blessed lands of the Indoril.
Gnomey – Indoril Castle-Estates – May 22, 2015
As far as the first is concerned, as Roa Dyr was getting a little too crowded for me to be able to play around with it comfortably, I set up a new prototype estate. I chose the location of Bet Yhdas near Fort Windmoth to that end. I have attached the .esp below. Here are some images of my current progress:
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
My main issue with House Indoril in general and the chapels in particular at the moment is with visualization. I think we have a pretty good written concept, but I have trouble visualizing it, and I get the impression I’m not the only one. The Indoril still seem to me largely a House cobbled together from preexisting assets and assets designed long before we knew what House Indoril was (other than the Temple House and ‘looks like Mournhold’) used very counter to how they were intended to be used. Focusing in particular on chapels and the intention to create them in the MH tileset, the MH tileset was designed by Bethesda with a very particular intention, namely to create an insular enclosed city in its own worldspace consisting wholly of purpose-built pieces. That intention is quite at odds with our intention to create the chapels as notable visible landmarks ever looming outwards over the surrounding countryside, often built on high and uneven terrain. In addition, MH buildings were generally designed to be used independently of each other as separate upper class structures, whereas the chapels are intended to be fairly monumental in structure.
While I do think it is possible to get an impressive effect with MH architecture, doing so often requires using a ridiculous number of objects very differently from how they were intended while trying to avoid making the whole structure look cobbled together. Which is further aggravated by the fact that a lot of TR’s Indoril buildings are very much cobbled together, generally consisting of copies of a Tribunal building with various rotations.
It’s because of the above that I was intially hoping we’d have a fairly intensive design and discussion process on House Indoril and the chapels in particular. The way things turned out, I ended up trying to carry out that process in practice in the CS, but while I think my work on Roa Dyr lead to a lot of results (among other things forming my above opinion on the MH tileset), I think perhaps working on a particular in-game location – Roa Dyr, no less, whose aesthetic we specifically wanted to preserve – resulted in my limiting my experimentation.
In short, my conclusion is that the best approach would be to go through a fairly intensive design and discussion process and basically take things back to the drawing board. And I mean that quite literally. I think we first need to figure out how we want our ideal chapels to look, and only afterwards assess the MH set and try and figure out how adaptable it actually is to that new purpose, and whether it could be made adaptable with additional assets. (Which, I’m sorry to say, will probably be necessary).
I think – and hope – that we now have both enough artists and enough people interested in the topic to actually carry out a discussion and design process. The main question is how much of a priority we want to make it. But If we are going to do it, I really suggest we divorce ourselves from in-game presentation as much as possible. With all the other Houses we have assets created to their character. With Indoril, it has too often been the case that we have designed their character around our assets.
Anyway, that rant is probably all I’ll get around to saying on the subject today, but having it behind me I have indeed had some more thoughts on Indoril chapels which I intend to elaborate on, in particular relating to their history.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
Yes, I definately see the need for additional assets. Concept art similar to the recent Dres clanstead drawings that have been posted on the forums lately would help point us in the right direction, I feel.
2016-01-22 20:43
7 years 10 months ago
i don’t know why, but i feel as if there should be more stylised indoril cantons on the mainland. not just copy pasted from vivec, but temple cantons, stylised in the region’s architecture, representing the temple’s foothold in said region. also, the velothi tileset in general has so much potential, just using it for one or two towns would be a waste.
also, what happened to the constant design that in every town, city, and village, there would be a temple at the center. i always thought this consistency made the world feel real.
the ending of the words is almsivi
2016-01-18 02:00
2 years 11 months ago
The plan is to make most of the towns in Mournhold in the Veloth set – which is the same as the Vivec Cantons and the various Tribunal Temples. Examples include the former Bosmora (forgetting it’s current name) and Almas-Thirr. That and the Indoril Chapels are two separate issues; the Indoril Chapels are not towns or cities, but rather strongholds akin to the Telvanni Towers.
Twilight dwells on the winter coast
the time of the eldest fades
deep in the forest the Dreamer lies
lost to mind and space.
2015-12-12 23:47
3 years 4 months ago
We definitely do need some concepts on this, but at the moment I think the few of us that are around that make concepts may be a bit stretched thin. (There’s still the Deshaan to take care of.)
Does: concepts, textures, youtube vids, admin stuff e.g. PR, handbook, assets, small website things. Activity level: wildly unpredictable. Still active. Find me on Discord.
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
Yeah, that’s what I think as well; at the moment we’re focusing on Deshaan, so I think it’s better not to get distracted. If an artist happens to get a good idea for an image, though, or feels like taking a break from the Deshaan, Indoril art would naturally be welcome.
2016-01-22 20:43
7 years 10 months ago
i wouldn’t mind doing some art on this later, what set will these be in?
the ending of the words is almsivi
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
The plan is to use the MH set, but I’d consider not worrying about that for now at all. As I said, I don’t think we should design Indoril around their architecture. I’d really act as though we don’t have any in-game assets for them yet, design freely, and worry about how to practically implement those designs later on.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
Is it possible for us to come to an agreement on what we want Indoril chapels to look like? This stalled discussion is the only thing holding back progress on Roa Dyr, and Roa Dyr is one of only a few things holding back progress on the Indoril-Thirr section, and the Indoril-Thirr section is holding up progress on the Aanthirrin, which has been a relatively small part of our mod that we've been working on for a number of years now.
At this point, I honestly believe we've been overthinking the visual aspect of these locations. Visually, an Indoril chapel should look imposing and dominate the surrounding lands, reminding everyone that the Indoril are in charge. They are essentially walled castles that house an Indoril lord who rules over the local peasants. There should be some vertical aspect to their design, similar to the Telvanni Towers, but obviously not reaching the same heights on average. They should not look like settlements. That means no shops and very few standalone buildings. Most structures should be connected to the enclosing wall, the main manor, or both. Any fast travel is exclusively for the use of the Indoril. They have serene gardens, where the lord can reflect and mediate upon his or her duties. Slaves live in Velothi cave dwellings built into the terrain the chapel uses as a foundation.
Preferably, we would have new assets and concept art to help implement this, but I just don't think any of that is ever going to happen. We're too busy with other things, like the Dres, and we need to prioritize what warrants an intensive design and discussion process. In this case, I'd rather trust exterior modders to make chapels that follow this written blueprint and are aesthetically consistent. We don't necessarily need a precise mold. Just guidelines. And even though the MH set has limitations, talented modders can still do wonders with it. Gnomey's work on Roa Dyr is proof enough of that.
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 8 months ago
Speaking of roa dyr how bad would it be if me to suggest we replace the red lanterns with green ones? So green and blue?
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
Sure. Why not. You'd have to ask Gnomey what he thinks, though, since he did most of the work remaking Roa Dyr. I'm sure he has a specific idea of what the aesthetics of the place should look like.
While this thread isn't specifically about Roa Dyr, it would be good to discuss how its visuals should change to make it compatible with our written concept for Indoril Chapels. It's probably spread out a bit more than other chapels should be, though I don't think that's a major issue. Chapels should be allowed to vary stylistically to fit the region they're built in.
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 8 months ago
I also would imagine roa dyr to be a little unique in the way it's set up. I my own head canon roa dyr is currently inhabited by the iliv family and the father is an indoril who is nearing dilusional because he believes that when he dies he will be sainted by the temple for his work in the arnesian war and for his pious lifestyle, but it makes him a bit hard to deal with as he sees himself 'holier than thou' in a way. I also think that roa dyr should be unique in that most people (maybe just indoril?) believe that the gardens of lanterns there is much more blessed than any other gardens, this roa dyr is kind of the vivec city of indoril chapels. Am I wrong in thinking that or...?
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
My work on Roa Dyr is very inefficient as far as performance is concerned; the MH set is too limited in my opinion to do much with in its current state. Not to mention the dubious technical quality of some of the models.
I do think we have a good idea of what needs to go into a castle estate by now. What I'd really like to see (and what is one of the many things on my to-do list) is an example castle estate that is made from scratch, so that we have a clear idea of what we should be aiming for. Fudging around with Roa Dyr is all well and good, but because the plan for Roa Dyr calls for preserving the best parts of the old settlement (mostly the canals and lanterns, really, and interiors where possible) it is somewhat limiting.
Rather than structures bound by a wall, castle estates were originally intended to be fairly monolithic structures. I think that is a better design. After some time away from Roa Dyr, I think Indoril should ideally have larger rooms; rather than the existing MH interiors which (outside of Almalexia buildings and some other exceptions) generally stay within the shell of a single building structure, Indoril castle estates can extend interiors over several building shells or into the terraced platforms that form the foundations of the estate. They can have more, larger and more stately rooms. Note that the possibility has been discussed that Roa Dyr would be somewhat of an exception, and I'm not ruling that out. But if it is, all the more reason why we short first sort out what the rule is before focusing on the exception.
Another subject is clutter, which Indoril probably need more of. I think that will also be easier to judge if we have an ideal example to work of; at the moment, the main rooms that require clutter that come to mind are at least one parlour for consuming Velk nectar and some sort of ancestor shrine. The former already has an associated asset, the second will require some thought; perhaps it will need assets, perhaps not.
Edit: in the spirit of progress, I had a go. The test castle estate is just east of Vivec. Just finished the basic shell for now. This would be on the larger end of castle estates, Ammar remaining a good example for the smaller end.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
I like your mockup, Gnomey. Ideally, what resources would you like us to have for the chapels? More types of platforms? Walls? Segments for connecting things together more seamlessly? If we agree that Roa Dyr isn't a prototypical chapel, how much work do you think it requires currently?
As someone who has worked extensivly with the MH interior set, I know its limitations, though it can be used to create open rooms. My Indoril council hall uses a number of atriums, for instance.
This isn't really the thread to discuss Roa Dyr's characters, Templar Tribe, but the lord of Roa Dyr's original (and I believe current) personality is this:
His name might end up changing. I believe Gnomey wanted Indoril Lords to be named after saints or other prominent members of the House. So, the lord of Roa Dyr might be called Indoril Olms. Basically, the Indoril are so conservative and resistant to change, all of their leaders would have the same names as their predessors. Am I remembering this correclty, Gnomey? I believe you also wanted to do away with family names for the Indoril, so they'd all be called Indoril [Personal Name], so the Indoril would all belong to the same family that is their Great House.
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
Gah! While trying to move the comment thread on Indoril naming over to this thread I accidently cleared the clipboard. I'm really sorry about that. :-/
Rats made a point about avoiding creating a new bottleneck by waiting on new MH models. While I do agree it would be a bottleneck -- and this will probably only become clearer as I continue work on my mock-up -- at the moment you can only really get anything halfway aesthetically pleasing by mashing together pieces that were not intended to be mashed together. Indoril buildings also don't mash together as tidily as, say, Hlaalu buildings. In general, you end up with a lot of excess faces aside from just the badly/unoptimized models, and it's hard to avoid a jumbled cobble-y look. Aanthirin, Lan Orethan and above all Almalexia have performance issues as it is; I think using the tileset in its current state will only exacerbate that, and might just lead to us redoing stuff anyway later for the sake of optimization or what-have-you.
Indoril buildings and even the hwalls, by virtue of the way they snap together, tend towards right angles and rectangular forms. The inside corner piece of the hwall also doesn't share the dimensions of the other pieces, meaning that while it does at least snap to the other pieces it tends to create gaps or overlaps in the walls. In general, there is no coherent design philosophy to the set; it feels as though, beyond the rather restrictive selection of assets that shipped with Tribunal, it was expanded on the fly, probably by several different people, often to cover very specific needs. Because that's probably exactly what happened. Thinking about it, I honestly don't think any of the other tilesets are comparable to the disarray of the MH set, though OM has a similar issue on a smaller scale.
Having gotten the spontaneous rant aside, (sorry about that, it didn't start as one), I can only really jot down what I feel the set is missing as I work on it. At the moment, having mostly just created a rough shell, I think the hwall could use some shorter curved elements, as well as a sort of buttress piece to cover any gaps. (you might notice that I currently use rotated corner pieces to that effect). Some sloped pieces might also be nice, but not strictly necessary. In general, more curved pieces and dedicated solutions to closing gaps would go a long way. Some large foundation blocks as exist in the Imperial set would also come in handy.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
Those additons sound reasonable to me, and I understand your point about the MH set being very limited. As long as the list of desired assets doesn't get too long, it shouldn't be too much to ask a modeler to help with.
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 8 months ago
Would it be worth trying to tackle a few models for OM ruins as well at the same time?
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
For now, I think we can make due with the current OM assets. Ruins can afford to look messier than settlements, which means modders have more freedom arranging that set's pieces. Compared to Indoril and Dres settlements, OM ruins are also a much lower priority for our mod. We can afford to not use them very often.
2016-02-05 22:51
4 years 4 months ago
Gnomey could you look at these please.
Snapping works but iffy... snap before rotating and move the 1st piece a little.
vertex shading is slightly off atm... but i could use some feedback
EDIT 01:
Mockup of variations standardbuilding_01
All have a foundation 4 roof variations, 2 height variations and a low semi to make a side building.
Vertex paint needs some work.
Still could use some feedback...
Edit 3:
Central towers. How close is the size of these?
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 8 months ago
Ahhh asylum comes through once again!
2016-02-05 22:51
4 years 4 months ago
Chapel or something..
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
These look good to me. Thank you for taking the time to experiment with new pieces, Asylum.
2016-01-19 19:35
2 months 2 days ago
I found this image while looking up something else. I believe it is part of the Morrowind Rebirth mod? I post it here as a suggestion for what the non-chapel Indoril tileset could look like. It's colorscheme hints heavily at both Velothi and Indoril, which I think is fitting and bridges the gap between our Velothi and Indoril towns. We may still want to make some changes to the geometry (more hex buildings or curves rather than square and Hlaalu-ish). I also posted some ideas on my concept art thread: http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/comment/6795
2015-09-28 20:13
2 years 8 months ago
That's Morrowind Rebirth's additional Vivec "canton" placed in front of the bridge to the Foreign Quarter.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 5 months ago
A non-chapel Indoril tileset would be exclusively used in Almalexia, correct?
2015-08-10 20:50
1 month 1 day ago
A few notes on Indoril Chapels, that I have mostly come up with while messing around with Roa Dyr in the Indoril-Thirr file (the idea of daily updates on progress there flew out the window, didn't it...), though some are older ideas I never got around to writing down:
-most Indoril Chapels were built in the wake of the War of the First Council, and the Tribunal's rise to power.
-they were essentially built as outposts to spread Indoril power and the Tribunal faith across the surrounding countryside.
-they were often built on the site of older structures, such as Chimer Strongholds (rarely, but Roa Dyr and the original Id Vano are likely examples) and defeated rival holdfasts (possibly the Ebonheart Chapel, built on top of an old temple of Lorkhan), and perhaps sometimes even Velothi Towers. (Some of the Indoril were probably originally mage-scholars who lived in the Velothi towers).
-Chimer strongholds were only rarely transformed into Chapels as they are built on plains, while Indoril generally prefer to build the Chapels in high locations commanding a view over as much territory as possible, and that would be seen from far and wide.
-the main visual influences: Ashlander yurts (in the sense of council pavilions from the time of the first Council), Chimer strongholds, high Velothi architecture, Daedric shrines.
Indoril incorporate a lot of symbolism into the Chapels, but often in complex and unclear ways. They favour geometric forms such as wheels, triangles, pentagons and hexagons (both associated with the Great Houses, and the latter also Tribunal+Anticipations), and sometimes more obscure symbology such as nets. (Vivec City is supposedly the corpse of one of Vivec's monstrous progeny covered by the nets of the Dunmer who would form the Buoyant Armigers). Indoril are not absolutely obsessed with the symbolism, though, and do still have four-sided buildings, for instance, though prominent structures (the lord's residence, the council area and the temple) are generally not four sided.
Dunmer buildings are generally built from local, easily sourced building materials, primarily adobe and organic materials, or in the case of Chimer strongholds stones gathered from the surrounding countryside. Daedric shrines are an exception, but they are explicitly alien structures in Morrowind. Indoril Chapels are not primarily buildings; they are attempts at terraforming. They are intended to challenge permanent structures like Daedric Shrines and Dwemer ruins and to an extent Nordic stoneworks, to act as controlled pocket-utopias from which to grow Morrowind as a garden, and as a sort of skeleton or foundation on which to establish Tribunal (and Indoril) culture and hegemony.
The Indoril distinguish between Laws Determined and Laws Ordained, or basically laws of nature which are set in stone and rules and regulations which, while important, can be changed. (One of the important responsibilities of the Indoril is to direct that change). Symbolically, Indoril are establishing their rule as determined law, binding it to the Earth Bones in a sense. That intent no doubt contributes to the Indoril not registering the loss of Chapels like Id Vano, and thereby letting the lands they dominated lie neglected, as acknowledging the fall of a Chapel would be the same as acknowledging the fallability of House Indoril, and would to a degree undermine their legitimacy as Morrowind's governors.
To that end, the use of materials taken from the ground with great effort -- massive cut stones and brass and such -- is very intentional and purposeful. The Indoril are clearly setting themselves apart from the other Houses which, while they have recognized roles and significance, are in a sense replaceable.