First of all, I appear to by no means be the only one dissatisfied with the names Thirr River Region and Middle/Lower Thirr. I’ve suggested an alternative approach to naming the region here, but either way it still needs a good name.
While I don’t really like bringing it up as it has already seen some discussion, I also feel as though there are still some ambiguities as to the naming of the Ebonhearts which I would like to finally clear away:
Old Ebonheart stays as the in-game name. It is also referred to as such in dialogue. This is clear.
Ebonheart stays as the in-game name of the Vvardenfell settlement. In vanilla dialogue, however, Ebonheart is (almost?) always referred to as Castle Ebonheart. I would suggest keeping to that practice, or otherwise finding another essentially dialogue-only name for the settlement to replace ‘Castle Ebonheart’ with. This is to avoid confusion between the settlements.
Would Ebon Tower be a viable alternative for Old Ebonheart Castle? As I’ve mentioned before I feel that the name Old Ebonheart Castle is too similar to Castle Ebonheart, assuming we won’t be replacing that. I also feel as though two Ebonheart Castles seems a bit redundant, and that giving one a more distinct identity would be generally beneficial. Thematically, the name would also better underline the parallels between Old Ebonheart and the Imperial City.
Finally, delving into technicalities, region names and abbreviations. Specifically, I think the region we have been calling the Upper Deshaan should simply be called the Deshaan Plain, with the abbreviation DP.
For the rest, largely leaving this here so that I can fill it out properly in future, working off of my musings recorded in this Skype summary, and keeping in mind very few region names are well established:
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 4 months ago
I like Ebon Tower. Very reminicent of White-Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. Elegant and profound in its simplicity, I’d say.
2016-01-23 11:05
6 years 5 months ago
Maybe no? White Gold tower and Adamantium tower is ancient meric buildings, and OE castle is big, but typical Imperial castle.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
What if the region was to be named after a famous dunmer/chimer. Firstname Lastname Region, or Firstname Thirr Region. Someone famous associated with the region of course. Not just anyone lol.
Just a quick go on the name generator. Anything sound cool?
Fedaves Faren
Nibani Othren
Relam Akin
Bradasou Arendu
Gadave Andala
Nibani Ildri
Madril Dorvel
Anasour Berend
Bodenb Theray
Enarvy
Dalamus Nethrend
Balam Sarayn
Tidril Favalara
Midave Indalara
Alammu Drethan
Fadril Sarayn
Bradas Indala
Golamus Sarendas
Alammu Sendal
Tedril Varyon
2015-08-10 20:50
4 days 14 hours ago
Note: my reply to Parker ended up very bloated, turning into a long post about naming conventions. As I feel the content is relevant I’m leaving it in, but I’ve tried to at least make the post half-way reader friendly. My replies to other posts in this thread are at the bottom.
Quoted from the [Region] Middle Thirr thread:
All Vvardenfell regions have geographically descriptive names except for Sheogorad. My suggestions were intended to be geographically descriptive as well, but ended up too obtuse. My criticism of using ‘Thirr’ in the name is that it is not especially descriptive, as the Thirr passes through several regions.
You are right, my suggestions didn’t mesh well with Vvardenfell names; now that I think about it that’s probably a major reason why I didn’t like the specific examples I gave. While we naturally don’t need to follow Bethesda’s naming habits to the letter, our names should at least not look out of place next to theirs. To that end, let’s look at the Bethesda region names:
Analysis of Vvardenfell Region Names
Ascadian Isles – placename + descriptive; what is Ascadia, by the way? I’d tend to suggest it’s the Imperialized name of the flood plains which got, well, permanently flooded and became the Inner Sea. TR’s native version of the region name was Askkaewhatsit, which I never managed to spell right without looking up. I suggest Askaad. I can spell that. Note it is a region on western Vvardenfell controlled by House Hlaalu with a western sounding name.
Ashlands – descriptive
Azura’s Coast – Daedra + descriptive. Note that it is the easternmost region of Vvardenfell and is controlled by House Telvanni.
Bitter Coast – colourfully descriptive
Grazelands – descriptive
Molag Amur – “Land of Fire” or something like that; colourfully descriptive. Note that it is the least inhabited region on Vvardenfell next to Red Mountain and it’s in the east, and the name is Dunmeri.
Red Mountain – ‘colourfully’ descriptive. Red Mountain is the recognized western name; I suspect that name was mainly used for its familiarity to TES fans and to be intuitive to new players, as it’s easily the most important region. Players don’t need to know who or what ‘Molag Amur’ is, really. They should generally know what ‘Red Mountain’ is.
Sheogorad – Daedra. Note that it is an eastern region of Vvardenfell, and that the name is probably Dunmeri.
West Gash – colourfully descriptive
Observations:
-there seems to be a bit of a trend to regions in Telvanni control/in northeastern Morrowind being named after Daedra. TR kept to that trend with Boethian Mountains (which in my concept still exists as a geographic feature but not as an actual region by the way) and Mephalain Mountains/Vales of Mephala, whereas Molagreahd is probably not a reference to Molag Bal but rather a Dunmeri region name like Molag Amur probably created back when we used Majra’s Dunmer language thingey. I continued that trend with Malac-etha. Note that I do not think every Daedra should get a region named after them; these regions were probably named organically over time, not by quota.
-also, there may be a trend of the further east you go the more Dunmeri the region name will be, but TR hasn’t really – and I don’t think it should bother – keeping to this trend for the most part. If anything, another interpretation of the trend is the more dangerous the region the more unfamiliar the name.
Application for TR:
I do think we should consider having subtle House/location related naming schemes, though there should be a lot of exceptions. Again, having a higher than usual number of Telvannis regions be named after Daedra is part of that; I’d argue Sacred Lands – and, indeed, potentially the Middle Thirr – could fall into the same class as Red Mountain as important enough regions to warrant recognizable names rather than Dunmeri gibberish. Emphasis on could.
Names are another way of presenting the scale of alien to familiar. The hostile, almost uninhabited high-level region of Molag Amur is the only region with a fully Dunmer name on Vvardenfell other than the also-sparsely-populated-and-out-of-the-way Sheogorad. I think Indoril lands should tend to be alien but not hostile, so I would consider more unusual names.
Sundered Scar is, I think, a good example of that. It is an english name and similar to West Gash, but just a bit more colourful.
I do think the Thirr’s name should be descriptive, but not directly. Referring to the region as a gate, a crossroads or a passage is, I think, not much different from referring to a region as a ‘gash’, or ‘scar’. Or Grey Meadows as ‘meadows’.
I think a theological or historical theme tied to Morrowind’s history would be a sensible way to go for Indoril regions, (again, there should be exceptions), and would serve to make the region names unfamiliar while differentiating them from Dunmeri regions names which, I think, should generally be hostile. I don’t think the names should be too on-the-nose, though, and they should be evocative of the region.
Elaboration on Suggested Themes for Middle Thirr:
Of the broad ideas I listed in my post, the variants of ‘place of crossing’ both describe Thirr’s nature as Morrowind’s primary crossroad, and relate to the separate-but-probably-related themes of Veloth’s pilgrimage ever eastwards and the journey of the soul beyond the waiting door. Come to think of it, the Thirr River is a natural fit for the mythic ‘river of death’ which seems to pop up in every real world mythology in some form. I only realized that just now, but thematically I think it’s vital. Crossroads naturally carry a good deal symbolism of their own.
The variants of ‘shattered’ should, I think, generally be used in the sense of disseminating here, as opposed to its negative connotation in Sundered Scar. This is basically the flip side of the crossroads; rather than the place everyone goes to, the place everyone goes from. This theme is, I think, very important for the Dunmer as a race, and Morrowind as a game and story. Dunmer are the pilgrims and the adapters; they continually leave or are made to leave their homes and search for grayer pastures. So, well, the connotation isn’t completely without negativity, but that adaptability and strength in adversity is what defines the Dunmer and makes them strong. This theme basically emphasizes fertility in the form of spreading seeds to the winds rather than clinging to what one has. Again, I think this is thematically vital. Still, this theme also serves as a description of the region, which was shattered both geographically and politically. So, again, like Sundered Scar and West Gash.
The variants of ‘core’ sort of unify those themes; place to set out from, place to return to. The heart. I don’t think I need to elaborate on the heart’s thematic importance to Morrowind, and more broadly Llorkhan’s association with the heart and central role in the Elderscrolls mythos. Again, however, this also serves as a description of the region, which is indeed almost in the center of Morrowind, and is a place people go to from all directions and leave in all directions. The most generic rendition would probably be ‘Central Morrowind’ or, indeed, ‘the Heartland’. (Though I’d argue ‘Heartland’ specifically could apply better to the region of Almalexia. I don’t think that’s entirely clear, however).
Reply to Biboran:
Ebon Tower would be a mock-tower. The actual towers were built by the Elves and besides being mythopoetically powerful structues serve to define the differences between the Elven races, and why they split off from the Aldmer in the first place. The Ebon Tower is man-made, so to speak, and is a mere echo of White Gold. It represents the ultimately failed attempt of the Empire to spread to – or in another sense replicate itself in – Morrowind. I do, however, think it should look at least a little more tower-like, not in the least to make it a bit more visually interesting than it currently is. The idea of making at least a subtle adjustment in that direction has seen general approval, with some misgivings as to the execution, and such as change is planned.
Reply to Cicero:
Going by vanilla Morrowind, the only figures who get regions named after themselves are Daedra, and those names probably date back to when Daedra were still widely worshipped, probably only remaining in use in Telvannis because nobody could be bothered to rename such – in the grand scheme of things – insignificant regions. If anyone else should be getting regions names after them, it should probably be the Tribunal, but they get cities instead. Failing that, maybe saints, and I did shortly consider Sharai for the Middle Thirr. However, names tend to convey things, and naming a whole region after a person makes that person seem really disproportionally important. On the level of actual gods.
2016-01-19 19:35
4 weeks 16 hours ago
On the Middle Thirr/Thirr River Valley name--
Is there a daedra dealing in floods and water? Dagon Valley maybe? However, I can’t really see the Indoril keeping that name for one of their major settled areas. They’d probably change it to be something after one of the Tribunal. So maybe…
Almalexia’s Watch? (Or Ayem’s Watch? Enter little lore story about this is where the mortal Almalexia grew up.) Being that Almalexia is the most beloved of the Indoril (or was it vice versa?) and this is where Almalexia helps keep watch over Vvardenfell, being the closest accessible port, right across the sea from Seyda Neen and Vivec.
Or perhaps something humorous, jaunty, and vaguely inappropriate referencing Vivec carving it out with his spear at the beginning of time. :P
I can’t think of why Sotha Sil would be interested in the region, so I’ve got no suggestions involving him. Unless of course, it’s his fault its a mystery we can’t find a decent name to the place. ;)
Or, and I think my personal favorite: a very vague reference to Dagoth Ur or Kagrenac, being that the river was enlarged by the eruption of Red Mountain. Voryn’s Tears perhaps, using Dagoth’s old name and referencing the tragedy of his fall into madness. Or Voryn’s Tear, using the homonym to suggest how violent that eruption was, and the scholars argue over which it was really supposed to be, “teer” or “tare” (I smell a Sixth House quest idea!)
I also poked around in the MMO that shall not be named. The zones Bal Foyen and Stonefalls is roughly in the same area; there might be a name from those we can steal that is acceptable. (What does Bal Foyen mean? And Stonefalls sounds river-y.) Other possible names pulled from the game: Vivec’s Antlers, Starved Plain, Shipwreck Strand, Greymist Falls, Davon’s Watch.
I also like Ebon Tower. Ebon Hold maybe, if Tower is too evocative of an actual tower in the old Aldmeri style.
2016-01-19 04:30
3 years 4 months ago
Very useful post, Gnomey. It’s always helpful to analyze Bethesda’s work on Vvardenfell to help guide us with our current efforts.
I don’t want to name regions after the Tribunal or Saints. Doesn’t feel right to me, for reasons Gnomey touched on.
Those Elder Scrolls Online region names are all pretty bland, in my opinion. That being said, the land-coral they came up with for Vivec’s Antlers looks pretty neat. We should save that idea for a coatal regions.
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 7 months ago
I think notating the region of the Thirr as either a crossing or an important part of Indoril society is the important part. It IS the realm of the Gardens for the Indoril, so perhaps [Something] Crossing or [Something] Gardens would work as well.
2015-08-10 20:50
4 days 14 hours ago
Amusingly, Bal Foyen and Stonefalls originally refer to the same place; Stonefalls is the original Bethesda name for our Andothren, from a time when Balmora was still called Stone Forest and Ald-ruhn Old Run. Bal Foyen is TR’s old building-block translation of Stonefalls which TESO decided was worth using long after we abandoned it for Andothren.
2016-01-23 02:43
8 years 1 week ago
That’s so interesting! I wonder how much the devs of ESO looked at Tamriel Rebuilt when making Morrowind. I thought their version of Morrowind’s landscape was pretty nice. I especially like the tree models they made. Otherwise their world building is okay, but I prefer TR’s.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
If Bal Foyen isn’t going to be used as a name. Maybe can reference the name in old text or something in game as being the old name for Andothren. More stuff for lore buffs to take in I guess. Which is what makes Morrowind great. So much history that you don’t need to know, but adds to the detail and background of everything.
2016-01-18 02:00
2 years 10 months ago
What about tying it to being the gateway of trade between Inner Sea and Morrowind? The Inner Gate Region? The Gatewaters Region? Thinking of it that way makes me think of the river in a similar light to the Aragonath on the Anduin being the gateway to Gondor in Middle-earth.
Alternatively, could look at Thirr as the heart of Mournhold District. In that respect, there could be a few variations. The Mourning Gates Region? The Mourning Fields?
Twilight dwells on the winter coast
the time of the eldest fades
deep in the forest the Dreamer lies
lost to mind and space.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
Posting here to make the thread recent. For anyone that wants to see some name changes for settlements before a meeting on May 2nd, please post in this thread.
Also this is quite a tough topic as there are so many conflicting opinions. Just want to have a reminder here to keep it civil and to not bash what anyone is suggesting. People have their reasons for their dislikes for names currently present in TR. Hopefully we can get a lot of participation.
2020-11-19 05:58
3 hours 33 min ago
Would love to see Kagen Mar be scrapped and replaced by it's original name Kragenmoor.
2020-05-03 18:45
7 months 3 weeks ago
The Grey Meadows region has a simple name. I think it should have a more dunmer.
Fort Ancylis has a bad name because other forts end with moth. Something like Fort Ancylimoth is better.
Bosmora sounds to much like bosmer.
2020-12-16 21:18
11 hours 45 min ago
In vanilla there are two forts that break that naming convention, Fort Darius and Fort Peligad. While it is a common name for forts in Morrowind, it's no hard fast rule.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
Bosmora will be renamed come redo
2020-12-16 21:18
11 hours 45 min ago
Kragen Mar should be changed back to Kragenmoor as it's also one of the few Mainland cities mentioned in the base game.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
Here is my list of settlements, and my reasons behind them. By luck, nothing here is in Old Ebonheart and Aanthirin release. So it all falls under in progress/redo content.
The main argument against this is Bodrum is a place in Turkey. To which I say Balmora only needs an L on the end to be a real life place. Tanna and Hirv passed the TR test when they mean an island in the pacific or a grazing animal. 2920, a book in Morrowind, the province we are modding, tells us there is a place near the Cyrodiil border called Bodrum. That is the lore name, 2920, which some argue is somewhat fictional, can agree that it represents a war that did happen in Morrowind history. A settlement name (a place that still stands to this day) would not be mistaken. Bodrum is the name Morrowind gave us in 2920, just like it gave us Ald Marak, Ald Iuval, and Tel Mothrivra, all which are used without any typos. By the way, I didn't know it was a place in Turkey till someone said it was. I am sure majority of players are not going to know/care. It's direct lore in Tes3, we should not retcon the literal game we are expanding on. This is the top of my list for settlement renames, and for good reason.
Darnim was perfectly okay, and was from Arena. We still have the left over banner in data. It got changed so that we don't have to rename the made up Dreynim. Rats regrets this decision, and so I think we should let him be happy again, and rename this back to it's lore name. If people don't want to rename Dreynim, then I'd suggest the other names Bethesda created for us (Darvonis). The "is" and hard "v" in the middle would be difficult to confuse with Dreynim.
Kragenmoor is refernced in dialogue and also in On Morrowind. It is the name it is given in every elder scrolls the city is referenced/shows up in. I find it is an nicer sounding name than the harsh Kragen MAR! One of those situations where, if it ain't broke, don't fix. Imperials are aplenty in this city, I'd be happy for us to take the lore name on this one (and I know I'm not alone in this thinking).
Hla means little. It doesn't mean Oak. And with how much "this/is" shows up on the concept map, and no translation available to us, it is certainly an important prefix that I think people shouldn't shy away from due to it maybe sounding a bit repetative. Looking at Hla Oad, that means "Little Village" or "Little Harbor". "And" might mean "Oak". There is no translation there in game (Andasreth might alude to that fact, as Indaryon, another stronghold, means Blessed Greenland, which the strongholds probably mean something to do with nature. Might be worth investigating this in the future). Morrowind has tried to make an effort for at least Vvardenfell to translate settlements based on their names from Arena. We should do the same as well for TR rather than apply names that have no translation to the original settlement. If Andrethis doesn't stick, at least lets have something that we can agree means Oaktown. Because Hlarud 100% is not that.
This one I know most of the people agree needs to be replaced. Verarchen doesn't sound dunmeri at all. Veranis is the name we are given on the concept map. Would be an easy rename. And as I said in the Hlarud paragraph, this "is" prefix should not be something to fear. I do think there is a reason it is used a lot (Gnisis, Velothis, Telvannis, Narsis, Dunmeris).
I am happy that this is far removed in TR from it's ESO counterpart. But unlike several things we have in TR (Blight Watch and Mabrigash content), this still has the misfortune of retaining the name from ESO, and all it's baggage, undermining the good ideas we like to say we take from ESO. If the name changes, then ESO fans playing TR will be non the wiser, and thus, won't ask questions like "Hey, you guys dislike ESO, so why do you acknowledge Illiath, huh?". And I would agree with them.
I'm noting this here for two reasons. One thing is, I don't actually mind the name Akamora. I'm pretty sure Aka does mean dragon in dunmeris. Akamora is a direct translation of Dragon Wood (Dragon Glade is the actual name). Though I am aware that the name has come under scrutiny and so I would say go with the concept map if people want to do away with the Aka sound and bring it in line with the Indoril reconstruction effort. Dralor is the current name present (which is short from Draloris on the concept map). Dralor is a last name in Morrowind though, so it might not be a bad thing to add the "is" at the end for this one. That is up to personal taste probably.
With it being in such close proximity to Kogotel, it could get a little confusing for newbies.
This is just a personal gripe more than anything. Felt the name was a little unthoughful as a name. Don't know what the idea behind it was, but from my perspective it just looks like someone in early 2000's trying to make a name that sounds Dunmeri. It kinda does sound like it, but I tend to see something like this for dungeons. Settlements have a bit more flair to them. Except for the next settlement I'm about to suggest, which is just not great at all.
Just...Why? I say it as Ouaka (Ooh-Whack-Ah). And yeah, the "whack" is very strong in this one.
This settlement is the reason why Darnim (a perfectly okay and lore freindly named place) got renamed because of confusion. This is the place that should have got the change, as this is not a lore location, it is a TR creation. I recommend not changing lore locations to fit the names of TR locations. We really should give way to the material that came before us before making that decision. There is the arguement out there that people don't like words attached on the end (like Haven, Watch, View). My question to them would be, why is Spa okay? And it is a literal Spa in the settlement.
Teyn with a Un, I see what you did there. Jokes aside, name is not really exciting to say, pretty forgettable. Reminds people of Onion. I don't care about Onion's though, I just don't feel enthusiatic about reading this word out loud.
Very close to Llaalam, a last name in the game. Not really a big deal, but thought it was worth noting (though same can be said about Othreleth, which is an actual last name in game. Tsk Tsk old TR worldbuilders).
Mentioning this because it is an imperial settlement and the name is referenced in the book On Morrowind which yet again refrences the concept map.
I know this is somewhat of a controversial suggestion as Baan Malur is decent name. though it is the only house capital to have a name change. Port Telvannis, Narsis, Mournhold, and Tear are all as is, they never changed. Baan Malur is the odd one out. Morrowind does change settlement names to local language, but that doesn't seem to be the case for capitals, which seem to be using names due to imperal jurisdiction of that region. On Morrowind references the city of Blacklight, there is no other known name of it. As it is such an important location, I advocate for the name to be reconsidered to closley follow the lore on this one, where as non capitals can be fair game for dunmerifying (which they are).
I don't expect much from this as this city has been a pain in the ass for a long time. But, worth mentioning that the name is random, lets be honest. It is the sister city to Balmora (and was always going to be, even going so far as TR having the magistrate of Balmora living here). Balmora is Bal (Stone) Mora (Wood/Forest). Andothren somehow translates from Stonefalls. There is no other way to explain why this settlement is not Bal(something). I've heard rule of cool be the reason. But It sadly has the city lose all the context it is supposed to have. We can say "yeah this is stonefalls". No one will believe it though. Not the Elder Scrolls enthusiasts at least. Like I said, don't expect much from this suggestion. But it is very sad to think what could have been. Bal Fell says hello.
References:
Concept Map
Settlement translations on Vvardenfell - The Morrowind Prophecies (GOTY edition)
On Morrowind
"Contrived border incidents in Black Marsh ended inconclusively, but the swampy terrain did not favor legion and navy coordination. Against the legions massed west of Silgrad Tower and Kragenmoor, and the legions west of Blacklight and Cormaris View,"
2920
"The quiet hamlet of Bodrum looked down on the meandering river, the Pryai. It was an idyllic site, lightly wooded where the water took the bend around a steep bluff to the east with a gorgeous wildflower meadow to the west. The strange flora of Morrowind met the strange flora of Cyrodiil on the border and commingled gloriously."
2016-08-28 05:22
1 day 22 hours ago
I do not want to change Kragen Mar or Andothren.
I very much do not want to change Baan Malur.
Don't care about the rest, though I'd strongly prefer just Cormaris over Cormaris View
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
Will have to see what other people say. Though looks like Kragenmoor is gaining popularity.
just want to be sure you read my points. Because the only way this works is everyone reads why people make their suggestions.
It cannot be a "I don't want it" situation with no reason given.
2016-08-28 05:22
1 day 22 hours ago
On Morrowind is written by a westerner, and we're no more obligated to use its names than we are to call Balmora "Stoneforest". As for the concept map, vanilla Morrowind didn't even stick to it, so I don't see any reason why we should feel compelled to.
Blacklight is clearly a procgen name, unlike any of the other House capitals (aside from Mournhold, which was also soft-renamed to Almalexia). It's also the name of a device you use to see where drunk patrons sprayed urine in the restaurant bathroom. Let's keep our nice flavorful name instead.
Kragenmoor isn't "gaining popularity", either, it's still supported by the exact same set of people as ever, lol.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
We'll see what happens. Maybe I missed some debates in my time away, but I'm sure there are people I wasn't aware of for supporting the Kragen Mar rename. AcrylicFrog is an example in the thread alone. I didn't know he was all for Kragenmoor.
2018-08-13 09:52
4 hours 57 min ago
My list
Currently in development
Bodrem to Bodrum
People are just going to ask why we changed a single vowel in the name, which then requires us to explain "well this is a town in turkey". It shines a light on the issue, it doesn't hide it.
In section files
Kragen Mar to Kragenmoor
It the a name used multiple times in dialogue and books which already makes the choice to rename it questionable, however above that the new name actually makes less sense than the original as "Mar" means either Sea or Ocean, when Kragenmoor isn't remotely close to either. Likewise the argument "there arent any moors in Morrowind" that was popularly used to justify the change holds no water as the Clambering Moors have existed nearly as long now. All around a bad call that should be reversed.
Uneyn to Andrethis.
Andrethis is the more interesting name, is of from the concept map and yes, doesnt sound like Onion.
Will say here the "too many is" names debate feels ridiculous to me given its resulted in virtually no towns using the style when they weren't all that pervasive anyway. It was fixing something that wasn't broken to start with and has just lead to an absence of something intended as part of the common Dunmer lexicon for placenames.
Hlarud to Hla Rud
We have an odd lack of regular Hla X settlements in Hlaalu lands so it'd be nice to have our only (present) example look the part.
Verarchen to Veranis
Straightforward here, it sounds more Dunmeri and is what Bethesda used on the concept map.
Cormar to Cormaris
Same as with Veranis, though I will say the full "Cormaris View" does sound clunky to me.
Kogomar, lose the kogo
Its coastal proximity makes the Mar portion of its name fine, but given the major city of the same region it is in starts with kogo that really aught to get changed.
Redo
Akamora to Draloris
Concept maps choice and does look nicer, lends some much needed pomp to the Indoril settlements names.
Ildrim to Darvonis
Again concept map and I think looks better than alternatives.
fin
RE Andothren
I will say if it didn't have the baggage from ESO using it, going back to the original TR name of "Bal Foyen" would be nice, but that ship has sailed and the next closest name is "Bal Fell" is already taken by the Daedric ruin (and there is good odds was actually supposed to be Stonefalls)
"Forum sigantures suck" - a great man
2020-10-18 21:03
1 week 5 days ago
Ok as suggested on discord ill put my opinion here and i am not suggesting my vote counts or anything just speaking my mind.
So Imho
Bodrem > Bodrum - totaly agree, sounds way better somehow and its actual lore town. About town in Turkey, its not really big city and its not like calling town Istanbul. If we nitpick we can find villages of half towns alredy in game. Dont see a issue.
Ildrim > Darnim - Agree 100% Darnim sounds nice and dunmeri and since is lore name dunno why change it but Ildrim sounds cool also, can be invented for some other town od village i guess
Kragen Mar > Kragenmoor agree, again its lore based and as someone pointed out Mar means ocean and dosent have sense for landlocked town
Verarchen > Veranis totaly agree, Veranis sounds Dunmeri, Verachen does not
Akamora > Dralor/Darloris - this i disagree 100%. Akamora is nice name. Dunno about translation but it fits dunmeri names and this town is in TR long time and i dont think its good idea to change it this long after release. It becomed iconic really. Even if changed me personaly will still think about this town as Akamora
Andothren - i agree with Cicero about this. Should be named Bal something
Cormar > Cormaris View - I agree with this. Its small change but it sounds better and is from Arena so its better to be more accurate imho.
Baan Malur > Blacklight - i am against changing it. Baan Malur is great name. Fits really well for that magnificent preview city and basicly its it translation even if its made up. Sounds way better as Baan Malur imho
2016-05-09 13:13
3 weeks 6 days ago
Good that you've made a list, I think it's very encompassing;
I'll go by things point-by-point:
2018-08-13 09:52
4 hours 57 min ago
Kragen Mar again doesnt make sense as being "the Dunmer name", it isnt near an ocean/sea.
This isnt an Imperial vs dunmer thing.
"Forum sigantures suck" - a great man
2020-07-31 02:09
1 week 7 hours ago
I only really care about 3 of them:
Bodrem -> Bodrum
It's a one letter change to make it more in line with the lore.
Kragen Mar -> Kragenmoor
This name isn't even generic. What's a Kragen? Nothing in the real world. Plus, it flows much better. Plus, when vanilla gave us a new standard (of dunmerified names), this was retained in "On Morrowind", which was not some obscure lore book. The book was written specifically for this game, related to a Main Quest, and they decided to keep Kragenmoor. This is not something that can be solved by a native vs imperial name, because this isn't really imperialized or generic in the first place.
Baan Malur -> Blacklight
Now, I admit, I feel less strongly about this one than the previous ones, but Cicero really has a point about all the Great House capitals staying in-tact. They're iconic names, and that alone should be able to shield them. But I'll give more reason than that. Port Telvannis has an english word in it, Port. Tear, while it could mean something in Dunmeri, was conceived as an english word. Mournhold is made of two english words. Yet all these work fine. Why not Blacklight? It's generic, sure, but it has a really nice ring to it and it was again mentioned in "On Morrowind", in the game where a new standard was developed. If it survived that, it needn't be changed here.
But if it's decided that "Baan Malur" will be kept, I won't be very upset about it, as it is a fairly good alternative.
2020-12-16 21:18
11 hours 45 min ago
I am also pro Balsomething and Uneyn rename. Bal = stone is probably one of the most well known Dunmeris words, and Uneyn is just a bad name. As for the rest, I'm fairly indifferent.
2020-03-05 21:38
1 month 3 weeks ago
I know this is about town/city renames, but I'll start with the single most terrible name in the entirety of TR:
Kharalambos Ruin > Literally anything else
This thing has to be renamed. Besides not following the standard conventions for daedric ruins, it's literally just some dude's name. I cannot describe how cringy it is. Can you imagine a daedric shrine named Kherbert Ruin? or Kheinrich Ruin? Kill this thing with fire. This cannot wait until the redo.
Kragen Mar > Kragenmoor
You can add me to the list of people wanting Kragen Mar renamed. It's just a lazy attempt to dunmerify Kragenmoor. I'm all for changes like Blacklight to Baan Malur, where we take a generic name and make it sound more fitting. This is not it. Not to mention Kragenmoor flows much better.
Verarchen > Veranis
Verarchen always sounded weird to me, too "German" to fit in with the rest of Morrowind, especially since all Reich whatever towns have been scrapped / renamed. Veranis sounds much better.
Ildrim > Darnim / Darvonis
Dreynim > Ildrim
I like Ildrim as a name, but it should be changed to Darnim / Darvonis (preferably the latter as it was in the concept map). I'd like to see Ildrim replace Dreynim instead. (And definitely cut off the Spa thing from the name.)
Uneyn > Hla Rud and Hlarud > Andrethis, Cicero and Vern have got me covered on these.
Cormar > Cormaris
No strong feelings about this, but I could see Cormar renamed to Cormaris (NOT Cormaris View), as long as Cormar is retained as the name of the bay / island. This way it feels like a city named after the location it was built in.
Adurin-Ouaka > Adurin/Andurin
Adurin-Ouaka could maybe work as a region name, but doesn't really fit a shack village. Adurin/Andurin could work instead.
The following are places I don't think need renaming.
Bodrem
Regardless of why it was originally changed, I prefer Bodrem simply because it sounds better to me. I know it's mentioned in 2920, but that was 1300 years ago. Slight changes can make the world seem less static (lame argument, I know). In any case, I don't have a strong opinion on this one.
Akamora
I'd prefer Akamora not be renamed if the alternative is Dralor(is). I find it much more memorable than the alternative.
Kogomar
It might be confusing due to Kogotel being near, but I think that's fine. Vanilla has a lot of confusing things for first time players too.
Andothren
Maybe this is due to me getting used to it from all the discussions about it, but Andothren sounds fine to me. I don't see why dunmeris has to have only one word that means "stone".
Illiath
If the only argument against this is ESO fans playing TR, well they are gonna whine about a bunch of stuff anyway.
2016-01-25 21:01
51 min 26 sec ago
For Baan Malur I just want to point out that it can be the native name still. When you speak to the locals they can tell you. While the cell and maps is Blacklight due to it's importance as it's a capital within an imperial occupied province.
Just a thought.
I feel there is a point to be made that people don't want to see because yes Baan Malur is a cool name. I wouldn't want the name gone either.
Also in terms of Illiath. Andothren got it's name due to Bal Foyen getting used in ESO. So I'm wondering why Illiath is okay when that is a full on eso creation, yet Bal Foyen was not because eso stole that name from TR.
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