Hello TR,
I thought it would be finally time to step forth and ask for your opinion on a few things regarding resource-sharing and establishing more consistency between TR and the projects hosted at project-tamriel.
At the moment we are discussing a common Tamriel-Data for S:HOTN and P:C that will either by dependency or by merging include all of the objects in TR_Data.
You can read up on the respective discussion here:
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=451
In extension, I thought. it could make sense to speak about a common set of general design directions and lore with TR. Our mods are designed to fit into the same worldspace with Tamriel Rebuilt, so it would only make sense to make it fit together in all other respect.
As there has been some resource-exchange with TR in the recent time, I hope that TR is interested in making our projects consistent with each other, too. In particular, I would like to promote some of our Cyrodiil-lore, as I believe it might hold up to TR's high standards. You can read up on some of it in the following links (I hope, Infragris will not choke me for this):
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=318
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=194
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=144&t=329
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=382
http://project-tamriel.com/viewforum.php?f=142
Also, much of the internal lore established at TR, will probably have implications on the other provinces. If we know about these things, we can stick to them, over there aswell. This can go from meta stuff all the way down to trivial thingsl like plants. For example, I remember Sload militating against the Nirn Root as a plant? If TR's version of Tamriel, for whatever reason, omits things like these, we should do the same thing over there, of course.
Lastly, we have updated some of the imperial-related assets from TR_Data, like the Colovian Bread and the wines, which is also something that TR might be interested in. At the very least, we could try to have a set of common trade goods that are consistent across the provinces.
More discussion on the subject can be found here.
2015-12-18 12:06
3 years 1 month ago
Well, that IS a lot of threads to comb through, but I’ll see what I can do. As I’ve mentioned earlier on the old forums, I do like the idea of having one data file for all province mods. We’ll do our best to cooperate on that front and help you guys out, although I have no idea who’s going to be the sorry soul to sift thrugh everything and make sure everything is fine with the other province mods (so not looking forward to that.)
As for Nirnroot…..I THINK Sload mentioned it because it shouldn’t be found in Morrowind…? So maybe it’d still be okay to find in other provinces….? I don’t know, don’t quote me on that, I really have no idea. As for trade goods and whatnot, I think we definitely need to keep on top of that so they feel like one big landmass mod instead of multiple ones.
Incidentally, what are your stances on factions? I ask because if you guys are doing something along the lines of “The Skyrim Guild of Mages” or something, then I think we should comply and do “The Morrowind Guild of Mages” (just a rough example.)
I will check out the threads in my spare time and offer my input. I must say I’m definitely looking forward to working more closely with the other provinces and will give input from TR’s end as soon as I can :)
Not another memory
2016-01-23 11:05
6 years 4 months ago
I have always been for the that the projects need to unite and mora coordination!
2016-01-17 14:03
5 months 2 weeks ago
worsas is looking into the viability of a common data set, or at least the best way of making files availible for multiple projects. We have a decent pile of generic objects, like colored candles, silks, wool, generic ingredients, … that should make a basic common data set worthwhile. I’m also reminded of some expansions to vanilla tilesets, like the common interiors, that are used in almost every province. The subject of Imperial resources also came up in the Third Empire thread, a while back. But, as you said, it’s a daunting project.
I’m also unsure of what the nirnroot problem is? We will probably implement it for Cyrodiil as just another random plant/ingredient, without any associated quests.
We’re not messing with faction names, just “Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, etc.” Most of these can be explained as provincial branches or franchises, so it makes sense for rank progression to not carry over between provinces. This is a lot easier for other province mods, since they don’t have to account for Vvardenfell technically being a part of Morrowind.
One specific matter: TR currently has a number of imported Imperial wines in its database. I believe one or two of them even play part in a minor quest somewhere. P:C has its own set of Colovian wine resources. I was wondering if you would be willing to adopt these, as they have (imho) an imporved mesh and texture quality. This would also require some dialogue tweaking, I think. I’ve included the relevant stuff in the attachment below.
2015-07-05 20:55
3 years 11 months ago
This was discussed before. http://tamriel-rebuilt.org/old_forum/viewtopic.php?t=25052
Unfortunately there is a lot to be considered, planned for, and work to do in order to implement this.
If Worsas has the time, I’d be willing to work with him on this.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
We could work on this common data files slowly but piece by piece. At first we need a clear naming convention for the new ids. An then make lists which of the old objects become what in the new data. Identical objects from the various data files should get merged and objects that would fit into thematical groups, should be grouped together. Here is what I wrote on a possible naming scheme at the PT-board when there weren’t plans to do a common data files with TR yet:
2015-08-10 20:50
2 weeks 5 days ago
Right, while it’s certainly taken me long enough I’ll be getting around to properly replying to this again.
Already working on basic preparation for the eventual common data file sounds like a good plan. Your suggestion for IDs looks pretty good to me, but I’ll have to take another look tomorrow.
The differences in graphics are still worth keeping in mind; we use lower resolution textures and vanilla bodies, so textures and body parts will probably need to be kept separate in some way, though there are plenty of possible solutions there. Again, we will create low-resolution textures for any PT models we’re planning to use, and will hopefully provide high resolution alternative textures for our assets, or at worst you’ll have to make them for any of our assets you’re planning to use, which again is no worse than the current situation.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
A few details on this data merge:
- We will use a common esm-file.
- We should probably use two bsa-files: TR_Data.bsa and PT_Data.bsa. Reason: TR modders only need to download PT_Data.bsa once and can otherwise stick with downloading updated TR_Data.bsa, resulting in less download size. Two bsas seem like a good tradeoff between too many bsas to register in your morrowind.ini and having to download an excessiely large bsa on each update. It might also prevent potential hashmap-collisions in the bsa. At the moment SHOTN and P:C use separate bsas, after this merge they wouldn't.
Problem: Long, difficult-to-navigate statics- and container-list in the common esm-file.
Using the naming scheme quoted in my above-post would soften this issue, by grouping furn- ex- and in- assets of a thematical group (eg. dwemer assets) in a single place, so you won’t have to scroll between in, furn and ex anymore while you are dealing with this particular thematical group. I still think it’s a good solution to the statics- and container-list-navigation-problem.
However, if we use that naming scheme. there will be a further detail to settle on: Should TR- and PT-assets get grouped under a common prefix (just using T_ infront of all ids would be one possibility) or will PT_ and TR_ remain two separate prefixes? The first approach would offer the advantage that many common-purpose objects would not have to be separately searched for under the prefix of the other project. You would only have to scroll to a candles-group, for example, and you would have all candles that exist right there.
The second approach, opposedly, would make it more easy for TR to keep their own versions of objects separate they wish to be different from the versions from PT_Data. That said, I would like to prevent the situation that TR wants to use an object from PT_Data but feels the need to retexture it for its own purposes. I'd personally rather find a good middle ground for assets like the nordic wooden kitchenware that would be usable for both projects. Though, it's not like I necessarily want to enforce the common prefix. I just think that separate versions could be circumvented, in many cases. There are many assets I would rather see tweaked to look less offstyle and I don't necessarily see the solution in just downsampling textures.
The most radical way, I see for these data files, would be to put all objects ever used by TR and PT under a single prefix and naming scheme, including vanilla assets, in a way that our assets would seamlessly continue the vanilla objects in the statics-list. Like that everything could be found in the same way. Though, it would require stuff like armor-rebalancing mods to be patched to affect our vanilla duplicates. That would be a considerable drawback. The way I see it TR will probably not want to take this radical route, although it would be the cleanest solution to the navigation-problem by entirely doing away with assets needed to look for under a different prefix and categorization.
In any case, vanilla assets would remain in their bsas, likewise TR- and PT- assets.
Some feedback would be appreciated. What do you all think?
2015-07-05 20:55
3 years 11 months ago
I’ll have some feed back in the next day or two.
Oh, and glad to see you’ve got some free time to work on this. I know that this will be a huge undertaking for all involved, but I do agree that, in the long-run, this will be beneficial to developers, modders and players.
2015-08-10 20:50
2 weeks 5 days ago
Right, so let’s try your naming scheme with a few TR examples:
TR_ex_dres_pl_01 → T_Mor_Dres_X_PlatLarge_01 (prefix=T_category=Morrowind_set name/additional category=Dres_static set suffix=X_object name=PlatformLarge_counter=01)
Saltstrap core: T_Mor_FloraDP_SaltstrapCore_01 (prefix=T_category=Morrowind_object type and region=FloraDeshaanPlains_object name=SaltstrapCore_counter=01)
This naming scheme would work for me, at any rate; as a developer it will naturally take a bit of getting used to, but that shouldn’t take too long as the structure of the names is pretty clear and logical. It also doesn’t seem too hard to figure out what ID a given object should get.
My first inclination would be to aim for a common prefix. I think it’s more likely our developers will think to use each others’ assets that way, naturally where appropriate. Using ‘T’ as the prefix is one possibility, but I wouldn’t be against using PT as the prefix either. Really, the main thing I consider here is the saturation of vanilla IDs starting with the same letter, assuming we’ll be keeping the vanilla IDs. It’s always bothered me a little that TR statics shared real estate with terrain statics, as that often resulted in more scrolling. PT would share real estate with picks, probes, potions and little else, and so may be preferable. This is a very minor concern, though.
I’m less enthusiastic about the idea of renaming vanilla objects to fit the naming scheme for two reasons: I’ve personally memorized and gotten used to the position of the majority of vanilla object IDs by now, so having them repositioned would disorient me personally for a good while, however logical the new naming scheme may be. That’s a minor inconvenience, however, and a personal one, so not overly important. The greater concern for me would be the practicailty of doing so and the issues it might create. That is something I don’t really feel equipped to properly assess though, so I’d tend to defer to the opinions of those I consider more qualified to provide them. (For this project probably Seneca first and foremost).
Just to be clear on what I was suggesting for textures, I was basically suggesting a texture replacer. Let’s say we make the PT textures the default textures. If we feel any PT objects we’re planning to use would look out of place among our assets, we would (as we have been doing so far) provide alternative textures, which could be in their own zip folder or a separate download or whatever. As I said we might also provide high-resolution textures for our own stuff, in which case, for the purposes of the unified data file, those textures would be the default textures. I’m not suggesting doubling objects in the actual data files, which I think would be counterproductive and cluttered.
I’d be perfectly fine with trying to aim for unified visuals, but that will probably require a lot of coordination (not bad, just means another thing to sink energy into) and I’m concerned it might end up holding PT’s visuals back.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
The Saltstrap-Example is correct, assuming that ‘Mor’ is used as abbreviation for Morrowind. I would prefer ‘Mw’. It feels more intuitive and would leave a bit more space in the id.
The Dres-object, however, would be named T_De_Dres_X_PlatLarge_01. The province abbreviation is usually only used for flora and terrain-objects. Anything mer/man-made happens under the prefix of the respective race or under Com, if it is a very unspecific asset.
The exceptions from this rule would only be things like province-specific, generic containers like barrels and sacks or retexes of imperial fortresses that are province-specific. I even wonder, if it made sense to switch the order for these and put the race-abbreviation or com infront of the province-abbreviation, in order to have human-made things found in a more consistent manner. The details of the naming scheme are surely up for discussion and can be altered at need.
I would favour T_ as abbreviation, purely for the reason that it would give us a further letter left for the rest of the id. We only have 32 letters, including the invisible end-character, so practically only 31 letters to make ids.
2015-12-12 23:47
3 years 2 months ago
Generically, I support the idea of eventually using a common data set. For resolutions of objects, as a texture artist, I think we really ought to have high-res versions of our TR textures, eventually. Then we could also have low-res textures for people with performance issues.
I have not gotten a chance to actually read most of the stuff in this thread and respond to it.
Does: concepts, textures, youtube vids, admin stuff e.g. PR, handbook, assets, small website things. Activity level: wildly unpredictable. Still active. Find me on Discord.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
There is an updated and more-detailled draft of the naming conventions at the PT-forums now. I’d posted it here aswell, but this forum doesn’t seem to handle large posts very well, so I’ll only link you to it and hope you will have some feedback:
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=583&p=4504#p4504
2016-01-17 16:36
5 years 6 months ago
Race Prefixes:
Com = Not specific to any race
Arg = Argonian
Bre = Breton
De = Dark Elf
He = High Elf
Imp = Imperial
Kha = Khajiit
Nor = Nord
Orc = Orc
Rga = Redguard
We = Wood Elf
Dwe = Dwemer
Dae = Daedric
Aka = Akaviri (summarizing the Akaviri races for simplicity and legibility)
Fal = Falmer
Ayl = Ayleid
Subrace Prefixes:
Bre_Rea = Reachmen
Imp_Col = Colovian
Imp_Nib = Nibenese
De_Ashl = Ashlanders
Dwe_Rou = Rourken
Province Prefixes
Sky = Skyrim
Mw = Morrowind
Cyr = Cyrodiil
Ham = Hammerfell
Hig = Highrock
Bkm = Blackmarsh
Els = Elsweyr
Val = Valenwood
Sum = Summerset Isles
Body Part Prefixes:
A = Armor
B = Body
C = Clothing
Body Part Suffixes:
Ha = Hand
Hd = Head
Hr = Hair
A = Ankle
C = Chest
CF = ChestFemale
Cl = Clavicle
F = Foot
FA = Forearm
G = Groin
K = Knee
N = Neck
T = Tail
UA = Upper Arm
UL = Upper Leg
W = Wrist
Book Prefixes:
Bk = Book
BkFaction = Faction Book
Sc = Scroll
EnSc = Enchanted Scroll
Note = Note/Letter
Book Project Suffixes:
TR = Tamriel Rebuilt
PC = Province:Cyrodiil
SHOTN = Skyrim, Home of the Nords
Skillbook Suffixes:
sAcr = Acrobatics
sAlc = Alchemy
sAlt = Alteration
sArm = Armorer
sAth = Athletics
sAxe = Axe
sBlk = Block
sBln = Blunt Weapon
sCnj = Conjuration
sDes = Destruction
sEnc = Enchant
sHnd = Hand-to-hand
sHvy = Heavy Armor
sIlu = Illusion
sLgt = Light Armor
sLon = Long Blade
sMrk = Marksman
sMed = Medium Armor
sMer = Mercantile
sMys = Mysticism
sRes = Restoration
sSec = Security
sSBl = Short Blade
sSne = Sneak
sSpa = Spear
sSpC = Speechcraft
sUar = Unarmored
Alchemy Prefixes:
Potion = Potion
Drink = Drink
Subst = Any other type of Substance
Alchemy Potion Suffixes:
B = Bargain
C = Cheap
S = Standard
Q = Quality
E = Exclusive
Clothing Quality Suffixes:
Cm = Common
Xp = Expensive
Xv = Extravagant
Xq = Exquisite
Furniture Class Prefixes:
P = Poor/Plain
RM = Between rich and poor
R = Rich
Creature Prefixes
Fauna = Animals
Undead = Undead
Mech = Mechanoid
Crea = Any other type of creature
Enchantment Prefixes
Once = Cast once
Const = Constant Effect
Use = Cast when used
Strike = Cast on strike
Ingredient Prefixes
IngFood = Food
IngMine = Ores, Gems, Crystals ..
IngFlor = Leaves, flowers, Seeds ..
IngCrea = Creature parts that are not food.
Levelled Creature Prefixes
R = Region-specific Creaturelist
LC = Levelled Creaturelist, with different creatures according to players level.
Stat = Static Creaturelist where all creatures in the list are spawned at level 1.
Stc = A Levelled Creature with only a single creature in it, used to place a specific creature that can respawn.
Levelled Item Prefixes
Random = An Itemlist where all listed items are spawned at Level 1
L = An itemlist with different items, according to players level.
Architecture Suffixes:
X = Exterior
I = Interior
F = Furniture
Spells Prefixes:
Spell = Spell
Dis = Disease
Pow = Power
Ab = Ability
Tokens to be used in names of Statics, Doors and Activators involved in dungeon- or house-sets
- House
- Ruin
- Tomb
- Cave
- Fort
- Sewer, Tent, Cellar and similar ones don't need to be put into these categories. Only use them, where possible and appropriate
Token to be used for Terrain objects
- Terr
Token to be used for Flora objects
- Flora
Naming Conventions - Examples
Activators - Banners, Flags and Signs
TR_act_banner_ayem01 - T_De_BannerSaint_Almalexia_01
TR_act_ex_Ashl_G_Banner - T_De_Ashl_Banner_G?_01
TR_act_Ind_mark_othren - T_De_BannerTown_Othrensis_01
TR_act_Red_mark_bodrum - T_De_SignTown_Bodrem_01
TR_act_banner_OE01 - T_Imp_BannerTown_OE_01
TR_act_sign_andothren - T_Com_SignWay_Andothren_01
TR_act_small_flag_blue - T_Com_FlagSmall_Blue_01
TR_furn_imp_flag_FW_01 - T_Imp_Flag_FW?_01
Sky_Act_Ex_Banner_Markarth_01 - T_Nor_BannerTown_Markarth_01
Sky_Act_In_Banner_Markarth_01 - T_Nor_BannerTown_MarkarthIn_01
Sky_Act_Sign_Arms_01 - T_Nor_SignShop_Arms_01
Sky_Act_Sign_Fightersguild_01 - T_Nor_SignFaction_Fguild_01
Sky_Act_Sign_Tavern_02 - T_Nor_SignShop_Tavern_02
PC_Furn_Anv_Banner - T_Imp_BannerTown_Anvil_01
PC_Furn_Chorrol_Flag - T_Imp_Flag_Chorrol_01 (classifying flags further into townflags doesn't seem needed here, but perhaps townflags could be reclassified as banners)
PC_Furn_Kvatch_Flag_In - T_Imp_Flag_KvatchIn_01
PC_Furn_Navy_Banner - T_Imp_BannerFaction_Navy_01
TR_act_sign_books_01 - T_Imp_Mw_SignShop_Books_01
PC_Furn_Sign_Clothier_01 - T_Imp_Cyr_SignShop_Clothes_01
Activators - Beds
Sky_Act_Furn_Bed_Roll_01 - T_Com_Bedroll_01
PC_Active_Ex_Bedroll - T_Com_Bedroll_01 (identical object)
Sky_Act_Furn_Com_Bed_03 - T_Com_Sky_Bed_03
Sky_Act_Furn_Nord_Bed_01 - T_Nor_Bed_01
Sky_Furn_Nord_Upper_Bed_SNG_01 - T_Nor_BedUpperSingle_01
TR_act_De_Bed_03 - T_De_Bed_03
TR_act_t_bed_01 - T_De_BedTelvanni_01
TR_act_com_Bed_02 - T_Com_Bed_01 (closing the gaps in the current counter, no further classifying by province, as P:C uses these beds in their vanilla shape, too)
Activators - Others
TR_act_riverstrider - T_Mw_Fauna_Riverstrider_01
Sky_Farm_CageChicken_01 - T_Com_Fauna_CageChicken_01
Sky_Beeswarm_01_01 - T_Com_Fauna_Bees_01 (ignore the other 01)
TR_Sound_AmbientInsects - T_Com_Sound_AmbientInsects_01
Sky_Sound_Vorndgad_Birds - T_Sky_Sound_VorndgadBirds_01
tr_active_gong_01 - T_De_Indoril_Gong_01
Terrain_ashmire_02 - T_Mw_TerrAsh_Ashmire_01
Sky_In_Reachmen_Chimney_01 - T_Bre_Rea_House_ChimneyIn_01
Sky_In_Redguard_Windmill_01 - T_Rga_HouseReach_WindmillIn_01
Sky_Act_Statue_ClavicusVile - T_Com_Statue_ClavicusVile_01
Sky_Act_In_Cave_Rock_04_Pool - T_Sky_CaveRock04_Pool_01
Sky_Act_Ex_Fisherboat_01 - T_Nor_BoatFisher_01
Sky_Act_In_Daylight_Panel - T_Com_DaylightPanel_01
PC_In_Daylightpanel - T_Com_DaylightPanel_01 (identical object)
PC_Ex_Statue_BenduOlo - T_Imp_Statue_BenduOlo_01
Sky_Act_Ex_Water_Circle_04 --> replaced with the water static from TR_Data
Alchemy - Beverages
TR_potion_orc_liquor.nif - T_Orc_Drink_LiquorUngorth_01
PC_Potion_Ungorth - T_Orc_Drink_LiquorUngorth_02
Sky_Potion_Ungorth_01 - T_Orc_Drink_LiquorUngorth_02
Sky_Potion_Gyrgg_01 - T_Bre_Rea_Drink_TeaGyrrg_01
PC_Misc_Rice_Beer - T_Imp_Nib_Drink_RicebeerMori_01
PC_Misc_Wine_01 - T_Imp_Col_Drink_WineTwinMoons_01
PC_Misc_Wine_Sutch_01 - T_Rga_Drink_WineTalansHerit_01
TR_potion_wayrest_wine - T_Bre_Drink_WineWayrest_01
Alchemy - Potions
Sky_Poor_C_Restore_Magicka - T_Nor_Potion_RestoreMagicka_C
TR_p_paralysis_resist_b - T_Com_Potion_ParalysisRes_B
Alchemy - Other Substances
PC_Misc_Sload_Oil - T_Imp_Subst_SloadOil_01
Apparati
Sky_Apparatus_DirenniAlembic_01 - T_He_Direnni_Alembic_01
TR_apparatus_a_hookah - T_De?_Hookah_01 (not sure on this model, honestly)
Armors
TR_a_wood_shield - T_Imp_Wood_ShieldTower_01
Sky_Nord_Shield_Round_01 - T_Nor_Wood_Shield_01
TR_a_daedric_lords_helm - T_Dae_Lord_Helm_01
TR_a_chain_cuirass_01 - T_Com?_Chain_Cuirass_01
TR_a_akaviri_shield - T_Imp_Aka_Blades_Shield_01
Sky_Direnni_Greaves - T_He_Direnni_Greaves_01
TR_a_dwrv_steam_helmet - T_Dwe_Steam_Helm_01
PC_Newtscale_Pauldron_L - T_Imp_Nib_Newt_PauldronL_01
TR_a_red_master_pauldron_right - T_De_RedMaster_PauldronR_01
Sky_Orc_Leather_Right_Gauntlet - T_Orc_Leather_GauntletR_01
PC_Col_U_Hat_N1_02 - T_Imp_Col_North1_Hat_Xv_02 (compare to the clothing ids further below!)
Armors - Unique/Artifacts
TR_a_IrfeidLeftShoulder - T_De_UNI_IrfeidLeftShoulder
TR_a_Face_Molag_Bal - T_Dae_UNI_FaceOfMolagBal
TR_a_katariah_mask - T_Imp_UNI_KatariahsDeathMask
Armors - Enchanted (named like un-enchated objects except that the counter is replaced with the enchantment name)
Sky_En_WinteryBreastplate - T_Nor_Iron_Cuirass_Wintery
TR_a_hist_freedom - T_Arg_Hist_Cuirass_Freedom (unless this is an artifact)
TR_a_dreugh_pauldron_left_swim - T_De_Dreugh_PauldronL_Swim
Body Parts - Armor
TR_a_chain_cuir_01 - T_A_Com_Chain_Cuir01_C (compare to T_Com_Chain_Cuirass_01)
PC_A_Newtscale_UpArm - T_A_Imp_Nib_Newt_Pauldr01_UA (compare to T_Imp_Nib_Newt_PauldronL_01, the body part is used for both the left and right pauldron)
Sky_A_Direnni_Greaves_UL - T_A_He_Direnni_Greav01_UL (compare to T_He_Direnni_Greaves_01)
Books - Non-Skillbooks
TR_bk_KingEdwardI - T_Bk_KingEdward_TR_V1
PC_bk_thecompletekingedwardv2 - T_Bk_KingEdward_PC_V2 (using a different bookmodel and separation of volumes)
Sky_bk_III_HistoryEmpire_04 - T_Bk_HistoryEmpire_SHOTN_V4 (a replicate of a vanilla book with a different book model)
Sky_bk_RaidOnPyandoneaV1 - T_Bk_RaidPyandonea_SHOTN_V1
Sky_bk_ImperialCult - T_BkFaction_ImpCult_SHOTN
Books - Skillbooks
PC_BookSkill_speechcraft4 - T_Bk_EttiquetteRulers_PC_sSpC
TR_bk_RainofSand_MC - T_Bk_RainOfSand_TR_sHnd
Sky_BookSkill_IV_Alchemy2 - T_Bk_CalcinatorUse_SHOTN_sAlc
Sky_BookSkill_III_Illusion1 - T_Bk_Wolfqueen_SHOTN_V3_sIlu
Books - Enchanted Scrolls
Sky_Sc_RavenEye - T_EnSc_Nor_RavenEye
TR_sc_seventhbarrier - T_EnSc_Com_SeventhBarrier
TR_sc_feather25_600 - T_EnSc_De_AlvemsBurdenBearer
PC_aysc_blessed_01 - T_EnSc_Ayl_CelestialBenediction
Books - Text Scrolls
Sky_IC_Invokation - T_Sc_ImpCultInvok_SHOTN
Sky_Map_Reach - T_Sc_MapReach_SHOTN
TR_sc_SoundWater_HP - T_Sc_SoundWater_TR
Books - Notes and Letters
PC_bk_Letter_01 - T_Note_EmptyLetter01_PC
Sky_AG_Yeti_smuggler_note - T_Note_SmugglerKgad_SHOTN
TR_sc_ChaoticallyScrawledNote - T_Note_ChaoticallyScrawled_TR
Clothing
PC_Col_C_Pants_N1_02 - T_Imp_Col_N_Pants_Cm_02 (common pants, at P:C we distuingish between northern and western colovian garment)
PC_Col_M_Shirt_W2_01 - T_Imp_Col_W_Shirt_Xp_04 (expensive shirt. Collapsing W1 and W2 into a single west-set here, therefore 04 as counter)
Sky_Extravagant_Dress_01 - T_Nor_Dress_Xv_01
TR_exquisite_robe_Necrom - T_De_RobeNecrom_Xq_01
Clothing - Artifacts/Unique
Sky_Artifact_Dragontorc_01_UNI - T_Nor_UNI_Dragontorc
TR_shoes_cloudwalker - T_Nor_UNI_Cloudwalker
Clothing - Enchanted
TR_resist_paralysis_belt - T_Com_Belt_Cm_ResParalysis
TR_ring_falling_second_barrier - T_Com_Ring_Xp_FallSecBarrier
Sky_En_Ring_InvigoratedLungs - T_Nor_Ring_Cm_InvigLungs
Sky_En_Shirt_Horsehair - T_Bre_Rea_Shirt_Cm_Horsehair
Body Parts - Clothing
PC_Col_C_Pants_N1_02_A - T_C_Imp_Col_N_PantsCm02_A (compare to T_Imp_Col_N_Pants_Cm_02)
Sky_C_F_Dress_02 - T_C_Nor_DressXv01_CF (compare to T_Nor_Dress_Xv_01)
Containers - Generic
Sky_Crate_01_Misc_Ceramic_01 - T_Com_Sky_Crate01_Ceramic
Sky_Sack_01_03_Gold25 - T_Com_Sky_Sack03_Gold25 (ignore the 01 here. it's redundant)
TR_barrel_01_drinks_orc - T_Com_Mw_Barrel01_DrinksOrc
PC_Crate_05_Ingred_GC - T_Com_Cyr_Crate05_IngredGC
PC_Chest_01_Soulgems - T_Com_Cyr_Chest01_Soulgems
TR_cont_crate_long_eggs - T_Com_Mw_CrateLong_KwamaEggs
Containers - Race-specific
PC_Chest_03_Gold_150 - T_Imp_Chest01_Gold150 (suggesting that chest03 is of imperial design. It is mainly used in context of Legion and imperial guilds in vanilla)
PC_Chest_Small_02 - T_Imp_ChestSmall02_Empty
TR_cont_indoril_01_food - T_De_IndorilCuldem01_Food
TR_chest_small_02_gems - T_De_ChestSmall02_Gems
Containers - with wealth/poverty assignment
TR_furn_De_Rm_Closet - T_De_RM_Closet_Clothes
Sky_Furn_Nord_Up_Desk_01Misc - T_Nor_R_Desk01_Misc
Sky_Furn_Nord_Mid_Closet_xpclth - T_Nor_RM_Closet_ClothesXp
PC_Com_P_STable_01_gold - T_Com_Cyr_P_SideTable01_Gold
Containers - Plants
PC_Flora_Onion_01 - T_Com_Flora_Onion_01
Sky_Flora_King_Bolete_Snow_02 - T_Sky_Flora_KingBoleteSnow_02
TR_flora_Alm_flower01d - T_Mw_Flora_HornLilly_04
Containers - Dead Animals & Nests
TR_cont_eyestar - T_Mw_Fauna_EyestarDead_01
TR_cont_ornada_eggs_02 - T_Mw_Fauna_OrnadaEggs_02
Sky_Contain_Beehive_Natural_01 - T_Sky_Fauna_BeehiveEarth_01
PC_Cont_Fish_Soldier_01 - T_Cyr_Fauna_SoldierFishDead_01
TR_cont_cooked_ornada - T_Mw_Fauna_CookedOrnada_01
Containers - Corpses
TR_cont_corpse_30 - T_Com_Skeleton_01
Containers - Ores
TR_cont_rock_iron_04 - T_Mw_Ore_Iron_04
Sky_Contain_Rock_Ori_02 - T_Sky_Ore04_Orichalcum_02 (04 referring to the rock04 texture used on these)
PC_cont_ore_GC_slv_07 - T_Cyr_OreGC_Silver_07
Creatures - Animals
PC_Horse_01_Stationary - T_Cyr_Fauna_HorseStat_01
PC_Fish_SaltW_Longfin_S - T_Cyr_Fauna_LongfinStat_01
PC_Fish_SaltW_Longfin - T_Cyr_Fauna_Longfin_01
TR_cr_beetle_G02_dis - T_Mw_Fauna_BeetleDis_02
TR_Mouse - T_Com_Fauna_Mouse_01
Creatures - Daedra
TR_cr_vermai - T_Dae_Crea_Vermai_01
TR_Dremora - T_Dae_Crea_Dremora_01
Creatures - Undead
Sky_Skeleton_Crippled01 - T_Sky_Undead_SkeletonCrpl_01
TR_bonelord_plague - T_Mw_Undead_BonelordPlague_01
TR_dwarven ghost_great - T_Dwe_Undead_GhostGreat_01
Creatures - Dwemer Machines
TR_centurion_projectile - T_Dwe_Mech_CenturProjRange_01
TR_centurion_projmelee - T_Dwe_Mech_CenturProjMelee_01
Creatures - Others
Sky_Giant_01 - T_Com_Crea_Giant_01
TR_cr_Dreugh01 - T_Com_Crea_Dreugh_01
PC_Sload_01 - T_Com_Crea_Sload_01
Doors
Sky_Ex_Barbarian_Door_02 - T_Nor_HouseBarbar_DoorEx_02
Sky_In_Barrow_Gate_01 - T_Nor_TombBarrow_GateIn_01
Sky_Ex_Redguard_Door_03 - T_Rga_HouseReach_DoorEx_03
TR_de_ladder_02 - T_De_Ladder_02
TR_in_impsmall_loaddoor_FG - T_Imp_Mw_FortLgn_DoorFGIn_01
TR_in_nec_loaddoor01 - T_De_HouseNecrom_DoorIn_01
PC_Ex_GC_Door1 - T_Imp_HouseGC_DoorEx_01
PC_In_Crypt_Door - T_Imp_TombCrypt_DoorIn_01
pc_ex_lghthsdoor - T_Imp_Lighthouse_DoorEx_01
Sky_Ex_Farm_Fence_Gate_01 - T_Nor_Farmfence_GateEx_01
Sky_Ex_Impruin_Gate_03 - T_Imp_FortRuin_GateEx_03 (the impruin gates are identical between P:C and SHOTN)
PC_Door_Cavern_Doors - T_Com_Cyr_Cave_DoorIn_01
Sky_Ex_Minedoor_02 - T_Com_Sky_Cave_DoorMineEx_02
Enchantments
TR_Aug_Dolphin - T_Strike_AugDolphin
TR_en_accuracy - T_Const_Accuracy
TR_en_falling_first_barrier - T_Use_FallingFirstBarrier
Sky_Sc_DisastrousVisions_En - T_Once_DisastrousVisions
Sky_Weapon_Bloodletter_En - T_Strike_Bloodletter
Ingredients
Sky_Ingred_Egg_01 - T_IngFood_ChickenEgg_01
Sky_Ingred_Cheesewheel_02 - T_IngFood_NordCheesewheel_02
TR_Ingred_Bloodstone - T_IngMine_Bloodstone_01
TR_Ingred_Dae_Gold_Ore - T_IngMine_GoldOre_CursedDae_01
Sky_Ingred_Forsythia_01 - T_IngFlor_FosythiaRoot_01
PC_Ingred_BergamotSeed - T_IngFlor_BergamotSeed_01
PC_Ingred_Newtscales - T_IngCrea_Newtscales_01
TR_Ingred_Troll_Fat - T_IngCrea_Trollfat_01
Levelled Creatures
TR_r_Alt_Orethan_cave-2 - T_Mw_R_AltOrethan_Cave_Lvl-2
PC_Ex_Abecean_Sea_AllFish - T_Cyr_R_AbeceanSea_Fish_Lvl+0
PC_Ex_Abecean_Sea_Hostile - T_Cyr_R_AbeceanSea_Crea_Lvl+0
PC_seagulls_01 - T_Cyr_Stat_Seagulls01
PC_Ex_Abecean_Sea_Dreugh - T_Cyr_Stat_Dreugh
TR_stat_roth_d05 - T_Mw_Stat_RothRoryn_d05
TR_LC_beetle_blue_lev-2 - T_Mw_LC_BeetleBlue_Lvl-2
Sky_Ex_Wolf - T_Sky_LC_Wolf_Lvl+0
TR_stc_scamp - T_Mw_StC_Scamp
Sky_Ex_BristleBack - T_Sky_StC_Bristleback
Levelled Items
PC_Random_Armor_Bronze - T_Cyr_Random_ArmorBronze_01
TR_random_book_temple - T_Mw_Random_BookTemple_01
Sky_L_Bandit_Goods_01 - T_Sky_L_BanditGoods_01
TR_random_orcish_weapon - T_Mw_L_OrcishWeapon_01
Lights
TR_light_de_lantern_07w_256alma - T_De_LanternAlma07_256
TR_Light_MH_Rope_Lantern_256 - T_De_LanternRopeAlma_256
TR_Light_MH_streetlamp_01_m3_of - T_De_LampStreetAlma01_16
Sky_Altmer_Lantern_Candle_01 - T_He_Direnni_Lantern01_150
Sky_Nord_Chandelier_02_64 - T_Nor_ChandelierHorn02_64
PC_Col_Lantern_02_off - T_Imp_Col_Lantern02_Off
PC_Light_Crypt_Incense_128 - T_Imp_TombCrypt_Incense_128
Sky_Purple_110 - T_Com_Light_Purple_110
PC_Light_Plant_256 - T_Com_Light_Plant_256
Misc Items
TR_key_DD21 - T_Com_Key_21
TR_misc_com_silverware_cup_02 - T_Imp_Silverware_Cup_02
TR_misc_de_hacklo_pipe - T_De_HackloPiple_01
Sky_Misc_Ironwood_Bowl_01 - T_Nor_Ironwood_Bowl_01
Sky_Misc_Direnni_Flask_01a - T_He_Direnni_Flask_01a
NPCs
- Npcs retain their old namings.
Statics - Terrain Objects
Sky_Terrain_Cliff_S_04_A2 - T_Sky_TerrRock04_CliffS_A2
Sky_Terrain_Rock_02_010 - T_Sky_TerrRock02_Rock_010
TR_terr_natural_bridge_GL - T_Mw_TerrRockGL_NatBridge_01
TR_terr_TRV_Cliff02 - T_Mw_TerrRockTRV_Cliff_02
TR_terr_RR_Cliff06 - T_Mw_TerrRockRR_Cliff_06
PC_Terrain_GC_rock_05 - T_Cyr_TerrRockGC_Rock_05
TR_terr_VM_cliffsnow04 - T_Mw_TerrRockVM_CliffSnow_04
PC_Terrain_Sand_02 - T_Cyr_TerrSandGC_Sand_02
TR_terr_VM_iceshelf03 - T_Com_TerrIce_Shelf_03
TR_water_CvFlow256_DG - T_Com_TerrWater_CvFlow256_DG
Statics - Cavern Objects
Sky_In_Cave_Rock_03_18 - T_Sky_CaveRock03_Cmplx_18
Sky_In_Cave_Dirt_01_R2_S_02 - T_Sky_CaveDirt01_SmCor_02
Sky_In_Cave_Rock_04_LRoom4_03 - T_Sky_CaveRock04_LRoom4_03
PC_In_GC_cave_srm2_00 - T_Cyr_CaveRockGC_SRoom2_00
Statics - Architecture Exterior
PC_Ex_Imp_Arrowslit_01 - T_Imp_Cyr_FortLgn_X_Arrowsl_01
PC_Ex_Imp_Highway_BridgeRamp_01 - T_Imp_Cyr_Hway_X_BridgeRamp_01
Sky_Ex_Altmer_Wall_10 - T_He_RuinDirenni_X_Wall_10
Sky_Ex_Barrow_Statue_04 - T_Nor_TombBarrow_X_Statue_04
TR_ex_Narsis_arena - T_De_HouseNarsis_X_Arena_01
TR_ex_nec_h_02 - T_De_HouseNecrom_X_House_02
TR_ex_dwrv_statue_01 - T_Dwe_Ruin_X_Statue_01
Statics - Architecture Interior
TR_in_dwrv_hall4_center1 - T_Dwe_Ruin_I_Hall4Cent_01
TR_in_MH_int_floor - T_De_HouseInd_I_Floor_01
PC_In_GC_CM_Wall_Window_01a - T_Imp_HouseGC_I_WallWin_01a
PC_In_Impruin_Room_Doorway_01 - T_Imp_Cyr_FortRuin_I_Dway_01
PC_In_Ar_Block_02 - T_Ayl_Ruin_I_Block_02
Sky_In_Altmer_Ceiling_Beam_02 - T_He_RuinDirenni_I_CeilBeam_02
Sky_In_Redguard_Tile_Corner_02 - T_Rga_HouseReach_I_Corner_02
Statics - Architecture Furniture
PC_Furn_IMP_Planter_01 - T_Imp_Cyr_FortLgn_F_Planter_01
TR_furn_dwrv_barrel_open01 - T_Dwe_Ruin_F_BarrelOpen_01
Sky_Furn_Falmer_Vase_01 - T_Fal_Ruin_F_Vase_01
TR_furn_nec_censer - T_De_HouseNecrom_F_Censer_01
Statics - Furniture with Wealth/Poverty Assignment
Sky_Furn_Nord_Low_Shelf_01 - T_Nor_P_Shelf_01
TR_furn_de_p_table_01 - T_De_P_Table_01
PC_furn_com_r_table_small - T_Imp_R_TableSmall_01
Statics - Other Furniture
Sky_Furn_Dreamcatcher_Straw_03 - T_Nor_DreamcatcherStraw_03
Sky_Furn_Fur_Boar_01 - T_Nor_FurBoar_01
PC_Furn_Plant_Hang - T_Imp_PlanterHanging_01
TR_furn_skel_hand_l - T_Com_Skeleton_HandL_01
TR_Furn_StrawHeap_00 - T_Com_StrawHeap_01
Statics - Plants
TR_Flora_AI_stump_02 - T_Mw_Flora_StumpAI_02
TR_flora_bitterroot_01 - T_Mw_Flora_Bitterroot_01
Sky_Flora_Log_Leaf_01_02 - T_Sky_Flora_LogLeafTree01_02
Sky_Flora_Tree_Pine_03_05 - T_Sky_Flora_TreePine03_05
TR_f_conespruce1_snow - T_Mw_Flora_TreeConespruceS_01
PC_Flora_GC_Olive03 - T_Cyr_FloraGC_TreeOlive_03
Spells
TR_BoT_RestoreHealth - T_Spell_De_RestoreHealth
Sky_Spell_Nord_MountainWind - T_Spell_Nor_MountainWind
Sky_Spell_Reachm_IronEater - T_Spell_Bre_Rea_IronEater
PC_Ayl_Guard_Reflect - T_Spell_WelkyndSpirit_Reflect
PC_Sload_Summon_Skeletons - T_Spell_Sload_SummonSkeletons
TR_dis_Shakes - T_Dis_Shakes
TR_ab_GreaterLich - T_Ab_GreaterLich
Weapons
TR_w_imp_bsword_02 - T_Imp_Legion_BSword_02
TR_w_iron_tanto_03 - T_Com_Iron_Tanto_03
TR_w_adamant_warhammer - T_Com_Adamant_Warhammer_01
Sky_Pitchfork_01 - T_Com_Sky_Tool_Pitchfork_01
Sky_Throwing_Axe_01 - T_Nor_Iron_ThrowingAxe_01
Weapons - Artifacts/Unique
TR_w_boethiah_axe_uni - T_Dae_UNI_AxeOfBoethiah
Sky_En_Voidknife_UNI - T_Bre_Rea_UNI_Voidknife
Weapons - Enchanted
Sky_En_Shortsword_Danswyrm - T_Nor_Silver_Shortsword_Dansw
Sky_En_Claymore_Redhilted - T_Com_Steel_Claymore_Redhilted
TR_dire_frostburst_star - T_Com_Silver_ThrStar_DireFrost
TR_cruel_firestorm_arrow - T_Com_Steel_Arrow_CruelFire
Took the liberty of making it forum-friendlier. ~Gnomey
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
It’s probably best to refer you guys to the original post at the PT-forum again, as there have been some minor changes to the naming scheme. I’m at a point where I can’t think of major improvements to the naming patterns anymore. Though, feedback is still welcomed, as always.
And there are some good news, too. We can probably save ourselves most of the manual work involved in the data move, even the manual setting up of ids for the data.esm. In particular we can also circumvent having to deal with the id-limit of (I think) 27 letters the CS imposes. I have searched for a tool that can do search&replace tasks in an esp- or esm-file and I found tes3cmd and figured out and tested some commands that I could use for just that. All we need now, is a text-file with an id-translation list that I can iterate with a simple program which invokes tes3cmd to set up the file for us.
I’m not 100% sure, but we might not even have to look for old object ids in script commands afterwards. I haven’t tried, but I think that tes3cmd can even patch savegames.
2015-12-12 23:47
3 years 2 months ago
The name scheme looks fine to me. Do we have quality standards for models, textures, etc, or is that yet to be set up?
Does: concepts, textures, youtube vids, admin stuff e.g. PR, handbook, assets, small website things. Activity level: wildly unpredictable. Still active. Find me on Discord.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
With the vast amount of assets existing across the projects, it is probably difficult to enforce any hard rules for them. We could set up some purely technical rules for now, like enforcing dds-format for textures and similar things. Anything else would be best handled as a set of recommendations that should be followed as much as possible, but shouldn’t be able to act as a showstopper for anything. To put it short: It’s too much work to fix all oddnesses that exist across the data files directly for the merge. We’d best only tackle the worst things at any given time. Some of the container plants in PC_Data, for example, are of terrible quality and should definitely be worked on sooner or later.
I’m currently working on a few shotn -assets to give them a more vanilla-friendly feeling. But I see it more as a process of including designs or proportions seen in vanilla than reducing polygons or pixels to vanilla level, which is something I’ll not be prepared to do at any given time.
When we speak about asset quality standards, I’m thinking of such things as lightness, contrast, saturation and coloration of textures and the general feeling an object invokes. Though, it is also something that needs to be considered in the context of the intended environment. P:C uses a lighter color scheme than vanilla pretty much consistently throughout all of their assets, which works just great in its respective environment and helps to show some difference. But it also uses many elements that visually tie it with the vanilla game and I’m quite happy with it all myself. Though, it’s naturally a subjective matter.
For the most part you can say the same thing about SHOTN, except that SHOTN is more on the dark side of things. However, there are some things like the books. They are larger and thicker than any books in the original game and many of them look oddly modern. I’d rather have them made more vanilla-friendly sooner or later, even if the individual quality of the models as such is very good.
The grass meshes are a completely separate topic from this all. We use them, Many of the exteriors have been made to be completely reliant on them in the past, unfortunately and we have started to rework some of them so you might be able to play the mod without grass, too. But we’ll keep including them and they are somewhat excepted from having to accomodate to a certain vanilla feeling.
In general it’s a topic that has given me some headache up to date. I keep working on things that are not yet quite right, but I try to balance it with effort going into creation of new things. It’s like fixing Telvanni at TR. It needs to be prioritized properly.
2015-12-12 23:47
3 years 2 months ago
I was thinking in terms of recommendations too, for things like poly-counts and texture sizes.
Does: concepts, textures, youtube vids, admin stuff e.g. PR, handbook, assets, small website things. Activity level: wildly unpredictable. Still active. Find me on Discord.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
I have written up my thoughts on common asset guidelines here, mostly with regards to style and general approach and less much about technical finickies.
http://project-tamriel.com/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=596
Again, I’ve been meaning to post it here, but some bugs in the forum software kept me from properly formatting the post.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
So here is the first part of the id-translations, only covering the objects in TR_Data and a few selected overwriting objects from the other data files, namely the barrow objects and the imperial wines.
Feel invited to give it a brief look. I’ll try to get the id-translations for the other two data files done over the weekend, though, it might be going to be a tough business.
Edit: Added an updated version of the id-translation with some changes to existing ids.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
A new version of the translation-file. This time with all objects from PC_Data and a couple from Skyrim_Data. Also, there have been, once more, some shuffles and changes on the new id-system to address some problems I came across.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
Another wip-file. Probably the last before the final version. Right now there are a few ids too long that I haven’t gotten around to fix. Also, again, many improvements over the previous ids.
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
Weird. Only a day later (felt like an eternity, really) here is a complete translation file of all three datas.
You will find lines like this in the txt-file:
Those are not oversights, but intended replacements. Unfortunately we have had a bunch of duplicate objects in the skyrim data files. This will make these objects collapse into one.
2015-09-28 20:13
2 years 6 months ago
Cross-posting to Project Tamriel
Right, the Elephant in the room which I feel I must mention is Black Marsh. Progress is currently ongoing on TR's side, so I'm not posting about that just yet.
The topic at hand is TR's Redoran questline and SHotN's Rise of High King Thian.
The Redoran questline (still in discussion) is thought to start as a minor conflict with House Hlaalu, but will eventually evolve into an effort to keep the native Nords, the Nail-Knock Reavers, pacified.
A big part in this will be where the Reavers got the money and arms to stage their uprising from.
The obvious culprit is the Thian's kingdom, Haafinheim (Solitude).
To recap, in TES canon the Kingdom of Solitude:
I feel it would be helpful to coordinate how Haafinheim develops during Shotn's questline and how it would fit into the timeframe of TR's Redoran questline. As Oblivion (its fractal terribleness aside) is still the best view into Tamriel's future, I think Haafinheim's slow digestion of Roscrea and slow grasping towards Redoran territory (and Solstheim) is something that we could bounce off each other.
2016-03-14 17:47
1 year 2 months ago
I don’t now if this is the right place to ask, but since you seem to discuss how some of the lorecan be consistent over the different projects, I wanted to know if you have some plans, gameplay-wise for players regarding leveling, getting insanely rich and to powerful, in a relativley short amount of time. Do you have any plans for that? I mean concerning the landmasses getting bigger and bigger with so much to do, would it be wise to somehow increase the requirements for leveling up? Will you still have some creatures and quest that are not leveled to the player?
This propably has been asked before, so, sorry for the inconvenience, but I’m really curious about this.
2015-07-05 20:55
3 years 11 months ago
Worsas – you’ve made a number of changes from the inital naming conventions that you had posted before. Would you provide us with the new naming conventions?
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
I have updated the first post here to reflect the changes to the naming scheme. It’s only missing some examples yet.
2015-07-05 20:55
3 years 11 months ago
Here is all that data in a spreadsheet. Each tab is a differnent section. The “U” column indicates what was updated from the initial list.
2016-03-14 17:47
1 year 2 months ago
Ok, I just saw the discussion between TemplarTribe and Zaric Zhakaron and this fully answers my question, so don’t bother to write an answer to my comment.
2015-07-05 20:55
3 years 11 months ago
I’ve gotten about half way through looking at the new naming convention. Here are my comments so far. These are general comments, I haven’t really gone through the lists looking to look at each item yet.
1) I would prefer the unique items to be seperated more from the rest of the items. A designer should have to go find these items, since they should rarely appear in-game. At first I thought maybe adding a UNI prefix, to the front of the name, would be good. However, this would cause the unique items to be before the Wood Elf stuff; T_UNI_… comes before T_We. What if unique items started with TU_. This would place the items outside the T_ names.
2) Activators are special for 2 reasons. First the Name of the item is displayed when the cursor is on it, and second they can have scripts attached. There are several items within the Activator catagory that do not use either function. Things like T_Com_Furn_BathHalfbarrel_02, and all the water models really should be over in the Static catagory. I know that TR have some of these problems too, but since we are going through this effort, why not fix the locations of items as well.
3)I am not really happy with the "Com" designation. It has caused some confusion with TR modders. “Com" to me, and most others, reads as common. Even in the Race designation "Com " is listed as "Not specific to any race". However in Morrowind, this is not true. "Com" generally means "Imperial", or as some might say, "Outlander" or “Westerner". So, having to tell our designers what "Com" objects can and can not be used, sort of defeats this renaming system. I am not sure how to fix this. If we change "Com" to mean "Not specific to any race except the Dunmer", then we must make sure all Dunmer items do not use "Com".
4)I think we should keep to the same abbreviations throughout the lists. Looking at the armor I see T_Imp_StuddedLeather_PauldrL_01, and T_Imp_Newtscale_PauldronL_01 . If there is a need to shorten a catagory name (eg Pauldron to Pauld) then that shortend version should be used through out.
5) Naming Rules. Each catagory should have a rule as to how it’s ID name is created. This is not only needed now, but in the future when new items get added. Below is a possible example for Activators.
If something is enclosed in square brackets [], then that comes from the designated list.
If something is enclosed in parentheses (), then the person creating the name would enter the item’s name, following the pattern used in previous names.
If something is enclosed in {}, this would be optional.
Every catagory should have the “Unique” identifier. There were no unique activators; if there were, I’d propose: T{U}_[Race]_[AType]_(ItemName){_[##]}.
I’d like to see something like this for each category (Activators, Alchemy ….)
6) Books. Books have always been a big problem. Even after having read every book, I don’t always remember what the book was about. Using the name of the book is really not that helpful. I propose doing the book IDs completely different.
Using my rules system above, I suggest the following:
T{U}_[BookPrefix]_][BookCategory]_[Author Race]{_[Spell/Skill]}_(Name/Title)
Book Prefix:
Bk = plain book
BkSp = book that teaches spell, include _[Spell]
BkSk = book that teaches skill, include _[Skill]
Book Category:
Bio = Biography
Fac = Faction
Fic = Fiction
His = History/Lore
Hum = Humor
Non = NonFiction (Instructional, Research...)
Jou = Journals and Logs
PPR = Plays, Poetry, Riddles
Law = Law & Politics
Rel = Religion/Prophecy
Tra = Travel
[Spell/Skill] would consist of the various spells and skills available.
7) I suggest that the Clothing quality to be a separate designator, and for it to appear earlier in the ID. For example: T_Com_ShirtCm => T_Com_Cm_Shirt
It would be nice if the clothing quality would be ordered to follow pricing/enchanting.
So maybe use the following:
common → Cm
expensive → Ep
extravagant → Et
exquisite → Ex
more later….
2016-01-26 12:34
4 days 3 hours ago
Thanks for the feedback, Seneca.
On 1: T_UNI, seems like a bad idea to me for the reasons you already stated yourself. TU_ would be a possibility but opposed to UNI it’s not self-explaining at all. I’m not sure why you have such a big issue about the naming pattern i put up for them. It’s pretty clear that they are unique items, when you see them and they are placed in the cultural space they belong to, aswell, by following the race designation rather than standing completely outside.
On 2: Yes, those are going to be turned into statics.
On 3: From an intuitive point of view it isn’t really that absurd to have com used for both province/race-unspecific objects and general westerner objects at the same time. If something could be assigned to a particular race somehow (including dunmer), I have done so, however. But as said on irc, the assignment of many clothing- and armor-pieces are up in the air and could be reconsidered. The fact that you say that having to give instructions on the usage of objects would defeat the renaming system, makes me think that we are in a fundamental misunderstanding. If I had wanted that nothing ever can go wrong, I would have proposed just putting all three data files in their current state into a common file, so p:c-people can find their stuff under pc_, TR-people their stuff under tr_, etc. and frankly, we could just have left this whole data move in the first place then.
On 4: I’m fine with adjusting all paudrons to say paudr or just pauld, although it seems like hairsplitting to me.
On 5: Yes, good call.
On 6: I’m against your proposed book prefixes, as for many books it is up in the air, if they will stay skillbooks. I also find it helpful to have written notes and scrolls separated from books, in case you are suggesting to do away with them.I agree that book categories saying ‘novel’ or ‘religious’ would be a useful addition and would help modders to find a suitable piece for the home they are decorating. Not sure how to address the issue of the identical book titles (like king edward eg.) found in different shapes across the projects (using different models and separation of volumes in many cases), when using your proposed scheme. Adding the race of the author seems like a nice idea, even though difficult to pull out for many titles and it’d all in all be a rather thight fit for the 32 letter limitation.
On 7: Would be fine with me.
Edit: I have thought about the com-issue again and I agree that it must be confusing to use com for generic westerner stuff and cosmopolitan objects like waterlayers, bones or cross-province plants at the same time. So how about splitting the current com-objects into two types, so that com only remains used for generic objects of use (like cast iron pots) and westerner armor designs without a specific racial origin. Whereas the other com-objects move into a group of their own?
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