Ricketybob's Quest Showcase - A Broken Family

4 posts / 0 new
Last post
Ricketybob's picture
Ricketybob
Quest Developer
Joined:
2023-03-26 19:40
Last seen:
2 days 6 hours ago

This is my quest showcase, based on lexyp's old showcase. The updated claim is here:

https://www.tamriel-rebuilt.org/claims/necrom-broken-family

I rebuilt this claim from the ground up. Other than the premise and the outline on the claim page, there was nothing used from the original showcase. I tried to stick close to the outline with some small changes. The two brothers were made dunmer and given dunmer names.

I liked the premise because I thought it was a great way to play with some of the Temple's themes. On top of the immediate family conflict, ideally part of the drama should come through in the tension between a dogmatic reading of the Temple's laws vs a more open-minded moral particularism, as well as a tension between someone who thinks virtue can be learned from a book vs someone who thinks virtue can only be learned through action out in the world. It's a short quest, but hopefully those themes come through!

The player begins by meeting a vampire, Velyn Alari, in a tomb near Necrom. Velyn has been turned into a vampire while on his pilgrimage and has made his way back to Necrom. He asks the PC to deliver a message to his brother Adren Alari, explaining that despite his sickness, he is still a devout follower of the Temple and that his brother should join him, with a hint of ambiguity about what "joining him" means (how much of a metaphor is Saint Seryn taking on the sickness of others?). The PC delivers the message to Velyn's timid but dogmatic brother, who takes the news poorly. He asks the PC to kill Velyn for him and put him to rest, and the PC can accept or refuse. If the PC refuses, Adren finds his resolve and leaves to confront his brother. From here, the quest branches are:

  1. The player agrees to kill Velyn (lvl 12 vampire, a decent challenge for a lower level player):
    1. The player can kill Velyn and claim and return to Adren for a reward (200g and the loot on Velyn (100g and a thematic and decently valuable book))
    2. The player can tell Velyn his brother wants to kill him, and allow him to leave. Velyn leaves forever. The PC can return to Adren for a reward (200g)
  2. The player refuses to help Adren. After arriving at the tomb, Adren has arrived before the player:
    1. The player can take Adren's side and kill Velyn. The player gets a reward from Adren and Adren returns to the library (200g and the loot on Velyn (100g and the book))
    2. The player can take Velyn's side and kill Adren. The player gets a reward from Velyn and Velyn leaves forever (100g and the book).
    3. The player can take neither side and watch the fight. Velyn will win in almost every case (being a vampire, and 3 levels higher than Adren), but there is dialogue for either outcome. Velyn or Adren will express dissapointment and give you no reward. Velyn leaves forever or Adren returns to the library.
    4. The player can intervene and prevent the fight if their speechcraft is high enough (I've set this at a check of 50 for now, but open to suggestions for a reasonable number. It should be high, but I don't want it to be so high that no one ever sees it during a playthrough). Velyn and Adren agree to leave Necrom together (100g and the book).

There are quest finish conditions for both Adren's and Velyn's death (or both) at any part of the quest. I've playtested through to each ending and had them work. There are greetings and quest topics for each stage. One additional NPC in the Temple Library has a response to the "Velyn Alari" topic after the quest starts. There are two local scripts, T_ScNpc_Mw_Map2_Adren_Alari and T_ScNpc_Mw_Map2_Velyn_Alari and one global script to teleport Adren on cell changes, TR_m2_Nm_BrokenFamilyScript. The plugin has been cleaned.

Both Adren and Velyn grew up studying scripture in the Temple Library, so some of their dialogue should be quite formal at times but without being too melodramatic. They quote from scripture throughout the quest (conveniently all the books they quote from are located in the library for players who like their Temple lore). Particularly Lives of the Saints, Saryoni's Sermons, Fellowship of the Temple, Consolations of Prayer, The Book of Dawn and Dusk, and the Gospels of Saint Veloth, Olms, and Seryn. At the end there's a reference to Sermon Sixteen (Adren's reading is as open to being an incorrect interpretation as the player's is). Even though the premise of a friend and brother betraying a brother who's recently become immortal and powerful has a hint of "Foul Murder" (I couldn't resist giving Adren a poisoned dagger), I don't want to hit the player over the head with the parallels and they shouldn't be distracting.

Last, I added a few small items of clutter to the tomb, changed out a book to be more appropriate for the themes of the quest, and moved a ring that was by Velyn. Could you please check to make sure I aligned them properly?

Thanks for taking the time to review this! This was my first time touching the construction set or doing any kind of modding whatsoever, so any and all feedback is welcome.

^Mucho texto

AttachmentSizeDate
Binary Data ABrokenFamily.esp44.09 KB2023-04-11 08:39
pralec's picture
pralec
Senior DeveloperWriting ReviewerExterior DeveloperQuest Reviewer
Joined:
2022-04-18 15:48
Last seen:
5 days 6 hours ago

Hey Bob!

Really nice work with this quest. The writing is very good, and you've done an excellent job with the scripting. You've managed to pick up the CS very quickly, it seems. I have some notes, however, which I'll divide into the "nitpicks that you don't need to fix" and the "fix this to pass review" pile.

This stuff needs fixing:

  • Adren doesn't hand over the money if I tell him I'll kill Velyn, and then I spare Velyn's life. Even though he says "take my money"
  • I get a bounty if I attack Velyn. He needs his Alarm set to 0.
  • If I kill Velyn for Adren, and then go back to the Temple and kill Adren (at any point) I get a journal entry saying they've both died in the confrontation.
  • If I attack both of them and Adren wins, he acts like I didn't help him (which could be annoying if you accidentally hit Adren but focus on hitting Velyn)
  • If I accept Adren's offer, then kill him, I have no way of resolving the quest.
  • If I refuse Adren's offer, then kill him, his corpse will teleport to the Tomb and Velyn will act like Adren betrayed him.
    • (for these last two, you probably just need a journal entry for if Adren dies in the Temple which ends the quest, and a condition on the teleport to the tomb for either that journal entry or Adren's deadness)

Unnecessary but could be nice:

  • "Reached out to them" is not a good topic. Too vague, and it's hard to use in other contexts. For example, I notice it's not in the first journal entry. This wouldn't be too hard to fix as well, since the topic isn't used in any other entries than Velyn's first greeting.
  • On that topic, "Velyn Alari" doesn't get highlighted in the journal until you talk to Adren. Velyn should have an entry for that topic. This would also help with a potential issue that players might miss Velyn's name, and not know the topic to advance the quest with Adren. So Velyn should probably say something like "Tell Adren that Velyn Alari sent you"
  • Adren could use a greeting for if you reconcile the brothers, with a goodbye, so he doesn't yap about other things in this poignant moment.
  • The writing, while good, is leaning a little on choice chains. If you can consolidate, for example, the first little chat with Velyn into two blocks, that would be to the quest's benefit. Likewise with the chat with Adren, you could consolidate so he gives the story and also reacts to the news of his brother being "alive" in one entry. This is a tough ask, but if you can do it I think that would be very cool.
  • One way you could potentially tighten up some of the quest dialogue is by putting some of Velyn's background info into Background. This would also help with the fact that his dialogue window is quite bare at the moment.

But, as I said at the top, very good work.

Ricketybob's picture
Ricketybob
Quest Developer
Joined:
2023-03-26 19:40
Last seen:
2 days 6 hours ago

Thanks for the quick review! It took a while to get another draft done because I was having some serious issues with the script for hitting the other brother by accident. I was tearing my hair out, but Eldax on the MMC helped me out.

Adren doesn't hand over the money if I tell him I'll kill Velyn, and then I spare Velyn's life. Even though he says "take my money"

Fixed.

I get a bounty if I attack Velyn. He needs his Alarm set to 0.

Fixed.

If I kill Velyn for Adren, and then go back to the Temple and kill Adren (at any point) I get a journal entry saying they've both died in the confrontation.

"They've both died in the confrontation" to "They've both died during the course of events".

If I attack both of them and Adren wins, he acts like I didn't help him (which could be annoying if you accidentally hit Adren but focus on hitting Velyn)

This was actually a bit horrible to fix. OnPCHitMe only changes to 1 once when combat is started. Even if you set OnPCHitMe to 0, you have to end combat with the NPC before you can change OnPCHitMe to 1 again. OnPCHitMe also has the unfortunate side of effect of disabling combat the NPC combat AI unless you add another startCombat to the script. So the new script lets you have one free hit on a brother before the NPC attacks you. The NPC AI also has to be reset after the fight. I've tested it and it seems like the NPCs correctly restarts combat with the PC if for whatever reason you talk to them and complete the quest and then murderhobo them anyways. This was such a finnicky script that in the future I'd try and avoid having helped X vs helped Y in combat outcomes in quests altogether. 

If I accept Adren's offer, then kill him, I have no way of resolving the quest.

If I refuse Adren's offer, then kill him, his corpse will teleport to the Tomb and Velyn will act like Adren betrayed him.

Fixed both of these by adding another journal entry.

Unnecessary but could be nice:

"Reached out to them" is not a good topic. Too vague, and it's hard to use in other contexts. For example, I notice it's not in the first journal entry. This wouldn't be too hard to fix as well, since the topic isn't used in any other entries than Velyn's first greeting.

On that topic, "Velyn Alari" doesn't get highlighted in the journal until you talk to Adren. Velyn should have an entry for that topic. This would also help with a potential issue that players might miss Velyn's name, and not know the topic to advance the quest with Adren. So Velyn should probably say something like "Tell Adren that Velyn Alari sent you"

Changed "Reach out to them" to "Adren Alari". This is the topic now that starts the quest. Velyn also has a "Velyn Alari" topic as well for journal entry. 

Adren could use a greeting for if you reconcile the brothers, with a goodbye, so he doesn't yap about other things in this poignant moment.

Added.

The writing, while good, is leaning a little on choice chains. If you can consolidate, for example, the first little chat with Velyn into two blocks, that would be to the quest's benefit. Likewise with the chat with Adren, you could consolidate so he gives the story and also reacts to the news of his brother being "alive" in one entry. This is a tough ask, but if you can do it I think that would be very cool.

One way you could potentially tighten up some of the quest dialogue is by putting some of Velyn's background info into Background. This would also help with the fact that his dialogue window is quite bare at the moment.

This is good feedback, and in the future I'll plan to try to put more backstory/exposition in topics rather than in long dialogue chains. Thinking about it, it does seem more engaging than an exposition dump (and you can opt out if you're not interested in the extra reading). I've done what I've can to break out Velyn's backstory into a "Background" and "pilgrimages" so that the first chat is only one block, and the optional topic "pilgrimages" is two blocks. With Adren I also edited down the text chains where I could and consolidated the story/reaction into one continue instead of two. I don't think I can edit much more off of his dialogue right now, but in the future I'll plan for better ways to progress a story rather than just continue/choice chains. 

I've playtested the dialogue and script rewrites and they seem to be alright, but they could use another set of eyes on them for sure. Thanks again for the great feedback.

AttachmentSizeDate
Binary Data ABrokenFamily_v2.esp49.77 KB2023-04-15 04:19
Ricketybob's picture
Ricketybob
Quest Developer
Joined:
2023-03-26 19:40
Last seen:
2 days 6 hours ago

Here's the fixes you recommended on discord.

AttachmentSizeDate
Binary Data ABrokenFamily_v3.esp49.66 KB2023-04-15 06:52