AustNerevar Quest Showcase

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AustNerevar's picture
AustNerevar
Joined:
2024-08-08 06:38
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2 months 1 week ago

Location: Narsis

Journal: 6+ stages

Size: 47.9 kb

 

I believe I've met all of the requirements here. 5 added NPCs. 4 of those share 1 script however. The other has their own script. All scripts were written by me.

Journal is definitely 6+ stages

9 topics, multiple greetings, added a topic to latest rumors.

Size is 49 Kb

 

Summary: A new religious figure has appeared at the Grand Bazaar in Narsis. Go speak to him, for a small fee, and find out if he is all that he appears.

 

This is the first quest I've ever made. In the future I will keep better documentation regarding things like journal entries, things edited, etc. Unfortunately, the only doc I have for you is a walkthrough.

 

I ran StandardsValidator and fixed most of the problems. The remaining ones I don't really understand.

Script T_ScNpc_Mw_Map7Faldan has a Tamriel Data ID
Script T_ScNpc_Mw_Map7FarengarTroupe has a Tamriel Data ID
Book TR_m7_Ns_bk_FarengarLore contains odd character ’ in field text
Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a known project specific local filter
Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a T_Local_NoLore filter
Info 15514224172403822285 in topic vinegem checks for Dead = 1
Info 28471305352905180 in topic vinegem checks for Dead = 1
Npc tr_m7_ulvys nirvayn is not used

The first two I don't really understand. I used "T_ScNpc_Mw_Map7" as a starting point for all my scripts as I thought that would be the correct thing to do.

Book TR_m7_Ns_bk_FarengarLore contains odd character ’ in field text I searched all over for the incorrect apostrophe. I know it's from copy/pasting in from a different word processor, but I fixed them all or so I thought. I don't notice it in-game either.

Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a known project specific local filter
Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a T_Local_NoLore filter

The above two I don't understand either.

Info 15514224172403822285 in topic vinegem checks for Dead = 1
Info 28471305352905180 in topic vinegem checks for Dead = 1

Is it not appropriate to have topics have a check for Dead NPCs? Is this purely because NPCs can't be essential in Morrowind?

Npc tr_m7_ulvys nirvayn is not used

The last one I don't understand either. Is it just because my ESP doesn't actually place that NPC down in the world anywhere? I only added a line of dialogue to him and didn't do anything else.

I have fixed the above issues.

 

Personal resume: Likes Morrowind. Doesn't like ESO.

 

 

AttachmentSizeDate
Plain text icon changelog.txt1.26 KB2024-09-16 08:09
Binary Data TR_m7_SideshowProphecy v1.3.1.esp45.46 KB2024-09-16 21:22
Ronik's picture
Ronik
Senior DeveloperQuest Reviewer
Joined:
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Last seen:
2 hours 9 min ago

Hi, thank you for submitting your showcase.

Unfortunately I can't give it a proper review at the moment, since I'll be away from my computer for a couple of weeks, but I can at least explain the validator warnings.

Script T_ScNpc_Mw_Map7Faldan has a Tamriel Data ID - This is because TR scripts are supposed to start with TR_. A NPC script ID according to standards in your case would be TR_m7_NPC_Faldan_familyName.

Book TR_m7_Ns_bk_FarengarLore contains odd character ’ in field text - This is self-explanatory so you just need to take a second look :)

Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a known project specific local filter - If you're adding dialogue lines filtered to all TR NPC in a single location, or faction, for example, you need to add a filter for the TR_Map variable. In your case it would be TR_Map == 7.

Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors does not have a T_Local_NoLore filter - Same here - you need to filter out your latest rumor for NPCs with the T_Local_NoLore variable. (Not Local T_Local_NoLore == 0)

Info 15514224172403822285 in topic vinegem checks for Dead = 1 - You should instead filter for Dead >= 1. This is to prevent random weirdness with console usage and savegames where the NPC spawns twice.

Npc tr_m7_ulvys nirvayn is not used - You can ignore this if this is a NPC from the Narsis section ESM.

If no one else picks up your showcase for review before my return, I'll give it a proper review once I'm back, but it will take a couple of weeks, like I said.

AustNerevar's picture
AustNerevar
Joined:
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2 months 1 week ago

Thanks for your help! I went back through and fixed all of these problems. New upload is in the original post.

Mortimer's picture
Mortimer
Senior DeveloperQuest Reviewer
Joined:
2016-06-10 21:48
Last seen:
6 hours 19 min ago

 

Greetings

  • Greeting 1 - You dirtied the sanctus shrine greeting 1 entry. clean that out with tesame (could have caught this with the validator!)
  • All of these in G1 should be in G5. Refer to the PT wiki entry - quest journals are G5, G1 is for EMERGENCY things, NOT normal quests.
  • Farengar's top two greetings have identical logic. Duplication?
  • Greeting 7 - clean this completely, it still shows up as edited with no topics. you may have had one at some point that got deleted
  • Greeting 5 - Keep your eyes peel(ed) typo

Latest Rumors

  • Your rumor overrides every single rumor in the cell. It needs to be with the other Narsis rumor and given a Global Random100 roll of like... >=30. This should also be on the wiki. but you can probably figure out the logic by looking at others.

random choices

  • Farengar's amulet logic should be in the "has my amulet" topic. Clicking the choice shouldn't immediately remove it from the inventory - you always want option 1 to be [Hand it over.] and option 2 to be "Nevermind" or something.
  • Similarly the Vinegem shouldn't be taken from the inventory without a choice
  • choices that aren't continue end with period (meet with the incarnate topic, and many others)
  • general choice logic like this would be "[Pay 100 gold.]" and "Nevermind." as your two options. choice 1 would then have a check for gold >= 100 for success, with a choice below it for "Looks like you're a bit short. The Great One isn't running a charity here." That removes a choice and a line entirely. streamlining ftw.
  • "make them listen" has one big choice chain with "And why exactly should we do as he wishes?" where you have four different options depending on quest state. what you really want is resultsbox scripting
    • you can make different choices show up based on like, if player has item, if player has done x y z or whatever.
    • Disposition checks happen on result, not on choice, if that makes sense. you don't get different options based on if they like you, logically. their RESPONSE can be different, though. in this case just give players the option and fail them if < 70.
  • your choices are a little too long. tes3 players are very terse. Yes. No. Maybe. I don't know. Can you repeat the question? One sentence at most. Simply saying "I found this wanted poster" is enough for the npc to connect the dots. And for players to connect what you're getting at, I think.You might have to change the dialogue a little, but short choices are great.

random topics

  • You've got a little bit of topic spam. In a real misc you don't generally don't need 10 unique topics.
  • Topic names that are generic phrases like 'Until now' are generally not good. Topics referencing specific things like "meet with the incarnate" are great. Reusing 2-3 topics for an entire quest is even better.
  • journal typo in "I will need to enter (the) Measurehall"
  • 'until now' topic typo "sneaking in to towers"
  • the vinegem topic has two chained continues. this is bad. You get one at most, with 0 being the goal. be more consise in your writing, i believe in you.
  • oral histories of farengar has THREE chained continues lol.
  • 'oral histories' topic - "deliver them of their troubles" doesn't mean anything, not sure what its supposed to say here lol.
  • 'make them listen' topic - capitalize bosmer, and tbh capitalize everywhere its used. race names are capitalized
  • 'has my amulet' -> "I'm old not dead" comma needed; " All I want is for them to cease spreading about the netch dung they've been using as to scam commoners out of their gold and for them to pay me all of the gold they've earned off my name" run-on sentence, not sure how to parse this one.
  • "Maybe you'll be more forthcoming than they have" than they were*?

quest bugs/suggestions

  • faldan should probably have something to say about the vinegem when you're on the quest
  • you should say the vinegem is an amulet in the quest. I was lookign for a jewel forever lol
  • if you drop the amulet (like back in your house or something) before going back to encounter farengar the quest breaks because the greeting expects you to have the amulet.
  • don't forcegreet, let the player speak to farengar naturally at this point.
  • "someone to help me" topic on faldan makes no sense if you ask him during the farengar confrontation
  • during the final sequence if you do nothing and get the "there will be bloodshed" with no disposition bonus, you can still tell farengar they agreed to pay. presumably the player is paying out of their own pocket, but this isn't solving the conflict.

scripts

  • for triggering journals on death, just do if (ondeath). getdeadcount will trigger every single frame.
  • you also want to make sure the player is already on the quest if you're triggering journals on death, too.
  • if faldan dies, the troupe is still there. in a real quest i would probably account for that but for this youre probably fine

----

 

AustNerevar's picture
AustNerevar
Joined:
2024-08-08 06:38
Last seen:
2 months 1 week ago

Okay...

I think I've addressed everything you've pointed out. New .ESP is in the OP. Unless I missed something(s), which is entirely likely, that should be it.

However, when I run StandardsValidator, I'm still getting this for Latest Rumors:

Info 3847293361440321550 in topic latest rumors has a Not Local T_Local_NoLore != 0 filter

I followed the same logic used for other TR related latest rumors in Narsis cells. Is this error okay? Or am I not understanding the function correctly?

 

Changelog:

- Removed Sky_Main.esm dependency
- Moved Greeting 1 greetings to Greeting 5
- Removed TR_m7_Fevris Ulvel NPC (because he wasn't really doing anything)
- changed Fevris related dialogue
- moved Farengar amulet logic to 'has my logic' topic.
- Changed it so that Farengar gives you the option to refuse giving him the Vingem (upon which he attacks you)
- Cleaned up player response dialogue to be more ambiguous and less characterized.
- Fixed Great One latest rumors. Hint about Faldan should no longer override all other rumors in Market District cell.
- Lots of grammar, typos, and punctuation Fixes
- Removed topic "until now"; combined it with "still new to all this"
- Removed topic "vinegem"; combined it with "someone to help me"
- Condensed topic "oral histories of Farengar"
- Fixed dialogue so that Faldan will react appropriately when asked about "someone to help me" during Farengar confrontation
- Added function so that Faldan will give a "token" belt for player to give to Farengar to end the confrontation.
- Added missing dialogue and greetings to relevant topics so that speaking to NPCs at end stages won't have dialogue that seems out of context.
- Moved a guard that was standing in front of the troupe NPCs.

- Changed Not Local T_Local_NoLore != 0 filter to Not Local T_Local_NoLore = 0
- Learned a very valuable lesson about scope creep and keeping quests simple (actually, learned that before I submitted the showcase, but this really drove the message home)

Mortimer's picture
Mortimer
Senior DeveloperQuest Reviewer
Joined:
2016-06-10 21:48
Last seen:
6 hours 19 min ago

Topics

  • In "someone to help me" you're still addtopic "vinegem" but that no longer exists. This causes an immediate error and breaks the quest
  • I think you can still condense this further. Jumping between generic topics from "still new to all this" to "someone to help me" doesn't solve the problems of overuse of topics.
  • Generally topics should be proper nouns. TBH I was expecting you to change the "someone to help me" topic to just "vinegem". it's specific, short, and quest relevant. In the future still try to avoid verbose/generic topics. E.g. instead of "oral histories of Farengar" why not just "Farengar", or "Faldan"? Then you can reuse that same topic for other NPCs.
  • Because you don't use any proper nouns, your journal entries have no links. Normally you would be able to click something like "vinegem" and link back to the topic, or see more directions from there. This is a bad descriptor but look at most vanilla/TR quests and you'll see the hyperlinks.
  • The topic "still new to all this" has a Continue to say "I'm no burglar or fighter. I can't sneak into towers or defend myself if caught. I'm afraid I can't pull this off without someone to help me!" - why? Break the habit now of having these continues, reviewers will probably rewrite it to take it out either way.
  • Similarly you could probably condense "meet with the incarnate" and "here for a blessing" topics. I wasn't joking when I said you can probably fit this into 2-3 topics.

Rumors

  • Your latest rumor should go under the BEGIN TR MAP7 NARSIS MARKET RUMORS header. It's also still there if you complete the quest and should be filtered / changed in some way.
  • Ideally you would also see the rumor in the bazaar itself. Would need a second rumor, probably.

Choices

  • [Convince her to avoid the violence.] is a little too generic but I can't think of a better option atm lol
  • Giving Farengar the gold should only work if Avoni agrees (journal 75). Currently you can agree to it if Faldan agrees + you have 750+ gold. Avoni can remain obstinate the entire time. You can either do that, or have Farengar imply he doesn't care whose gold it is, or something.

Scripts

  • If you find the vinegem before the quest, you break the quest because you'll never trigger journal entry 35. Common solutions are disabling until quest starts, or skipping the entire middle of the quest and having them say "thanks" and leave.

Other

  • Vinegem still referred to as a gem and not an amulet. Be specific about what you're looking for.

---

You're really really close. One more pass.

AustNerevar's picture
AustNerevar
Joined:
2024-08-08 06:38
Last seen:
2 months 1 week ago

Okay I'll try to have this done by the weekend. AC is out so it's too hot in my office to work right now. I could've sworn I changed gem to amulet in Faldan's dialogue though! Perhaps I accidentally undid that when fixing something else.

I agree that things can be condensed more.

For the choice to pay Farengar out of pocket I was just thinking that was sort of line with a lot of Morrowind's traditional quest logic. He doesn't actually ask where the gold comes from, he simply wants it. But I should probably make that more clear. I agree that before, it didn't make much sense if none of his demands had been met at all. So I added the belt as a token to mark that you'd talked to Faldan.