OE Misc Quest: Belated Justice (TES I Arena easter egg)

Priority:

Critical

Stage:

Merged

Development Progress:

100

Merged into:

TR_Mainland

Claim Type:

Quest

Description

"It's been a while since the last high-profile court case at the Hall of Justice. Though I hear that the old General Casik is still trying to get the Minister of Justice to listen to his pleas of innocence. I'm surprised he hasn't just given up--he's been jailed for three decades after all." -> a nod to Arena's "King Casik"; Casik is kept in the Legion dungeon, suspected for treason. he claims that the crimes were committed by a Daedric doppelganger. A good place to explore the Imperial concept of justice: guilty until proven innocent. The player would have to help Casik build his case and then defend him at court--or alternatively, if the player thinks Casik’s not innocent, see that he’s sentenced to death.

Of note is that Casik's prison cell is littered with barely readable pleas for mercy. Whatever the quest ends up, the should be portrayed as a broken man.

Comments

Is General Casik a Dunmer or

Is General Casik a Dunmer or another race? What was his command post? Did he commit treason against the province of Morrowind or against the Empire?

IMO: "Casik" doesn't really sound like a Dunmer name, and considering all Arena rulers were genericly regal human sprites, I'd say either Breton, Nord, or Imperial would fit best (Nord or Imperial to me, due to Skyrim's proximity or Imperial since he's a general of the Imperial Legion, either way).

Rawr.

I thought that, too, but the

I thought that, too, but the UESP has Casik in its list of Dunmer Names/Male: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dunmer_Names/Male

C and even moreso P are

C, K and even moreso P are letters that after Daggerfall/Arena are used very little in their Morrowind names. Exceptions are always possible though, this one is atypical but not unbelievable.

Casik and the charges against

Casik and the charges against him are included in the latest Old Ebonheart release file. I'd suggest downloading that and checking him out.

Ah, gotcha. I haven't played

Ah, gotcha. I haven't played around with the release files before, so I'll take a look. On my main install, the dungeons are empty.

Is General Casik's second in command from 30 years ago still present in Old Ebonheart? What about the General's wife?

Edit - Am I doing something wrong? I grabbed TR_OldEbonheart_v.0218.ESP, but the dungeons are still empty.

The latest is the one all the

The latest is the one all the way at the bottom, from yesterday: TR_OldEbonheart_v.0221.ESP

Thank you!

Edit - I'm still not seeing him. The Legion dungeons are still empty.

My load order:

_001_ Morrowind.esm
*003* Tribunal.esm
*004* Bloodmoon.esm
_002_ Morrowind Patch v1.6.6_beta.esm
*006* Tamriel_Data.esm
*007* TR_Mainland.esm
_005_ gr_ScriptImprovements.esm
_008_ SkipTutorial1.0.esp
_009_ TR_Factions.esp
_010_ TR_Preview.esp
_011_ TR_Travels.esp
_012_ TR_Mainland_1709_hotfix5.esp
_013_ TR_OldEbonheart_v.0221.ESP

Ah, there's your problem: 1.

Ah, there's your problem:
1. you're loading it ingame and not in the CS
2. you have TR_Preview loaded, which also includes the currently released version of OE and then you're loading the current OE on top of that.

Just load it up in the CS with just TR_Mainland.esp and the OE file (The requisite esm's are auto loaded by the CS)

Thanks, Miner! That was

Thanks, Miner! That was helpful. =)

OK, I've finished with the

OK, I've finished with the first draft. I'm concerned that this is too lengthy/convoluted, in particular, how the evidence is presented at the trial.

Also, I'm not sure about what rewards would be fitting for this quest.

Assets needed:
3 NPCs - General Casik's former aid, General Casik's wife, and a magistrate (who may already exist)
1 letter
1 land deed

Quest: Belated Justice (TES I Arena easter egg)

Version 1.1: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wyWThtTEa7etracZ_pjsSWrqs1UemS4Hwn4KNoXwOpU/edit?usp=sharing

gave it a quick skim because

gave it a quick skim because it is actually a short novel lol

looks good to me - are you going to put this in the CS at some point? you have a pretty good grasp of how the dialogue formatting works, if you do it you'd probably get dev status

What are the guidelines for

What are the guidelines for new NPCs? I'd like to create General Casik's wife. Also, I need two other NPCs, one who was General Casik's former aide, and another who is a magistrate (actually, maybe the Minister of Justice? Does that NPC exist?)

New npcs should follow the

New npcs should follow the same naming convention:
TR_m3_Their Name
and have one of the TR NPC Scripts attached, T_ScNPC_Mw_Map3 is the generic one, there's also one for rich people which the wife might be.
Make sure to give people clothing and armor that fits their status and don't give them ebony or daedric without a real good reason.

You can make the former aide yourself probably, a magistrate I will find for you and list the name when I do

Where would be a good

Where would be a good location to place the wife? Perhaps in The Mother Alessia?

that sounds fine to me. For

that sounds fine to me. For the minister of justice I'm having a hard time determining if one already exists. The hall of justice is in the Curia building though. I'll ask other people who might know, and otherwise defer to your judgement

There are tons of NPCs in

There are tons of NPCs in there who might be suitable, but they don't have any background or specific greetings.

General Casik is behind two locked doors. I'll need to be able to somehow get permission to see him. Is it possible to have Gaulus the Jailor escort the PC to Casik's cell?

May I modify some of the NPCs? For instance, I'd like to add a General Casik topic to Rosia Valo who can (grudgingly) direct the PC to the dungeons.

1. We're in a discussion on

1. We're in a discussion on the discord (which I highly recommend you join!) whether it would be better to make new npcs or try to use existing ones.
2. It's possible to do that, yes, but escorting (and AI actions in general) are very wonky. I'd suggest maybe he gives you a key or has the doors unlocked for you, both of which are trivial to implement. If you have extra time look into AI scripting but it's really bad lol
3. Adding dialogue to NPC's isn't modifying in the technical sense (it doesn't edit their NPC stats page) so go ahead. If you do add topics just remember to add in another response on top of it if the quest resolves.

I'm in the Morrowind modding

I'm in the Morrowind modding Discord, but I'll join you guys in the TR Discord.

Probably giving the keys to the first door and General Casik's door would be better. Should I make a new key or use an existing one?

Wow, this is really excellent

Wow, this is really excellent work! I don't know how much of this is easily doable. It might be a nice touch to have someone create a signature for Casik, which can be embedded in the land deed.

Excellent quest! The Minister

Excellent quest!

The Minister of Justice is TR_m3_Belisatha Mede, located in Ebon Tower, Curia: Central Offices. Some background from an old thread:
"Belisatha Mede is the Minister of Justice whose job is to observe that the the Juris Imperator Tamrielicus is obeyed throughout the province in all matters. This impossible task has left her somewhat wry and cynical. She also acts as the supreme judge in the province to which all Imperial citizens can complain about the unfair treatment they've suffered in the hands of the local courts (another absurdly large task)."
She's from an old Colovian family. I think that background is quite compatible with this quest; she wants to get the case done and over with as quickly as possible so that she can deal with other, less futile matters.

Llilth Casik and Melsen - I'd prefer to use existing NPCs, so that they can be fleshed out more rather than just bloating OE with even more single-purpose NPCs. For the wife, I'd want to put her in the castle, but in a position relatively lacking in prestige. I've got two suggestions here:
1. Preferred: TR_m3_Nerasa Veran, Minister of Tribunal Temple Affairs. "[...] who is also a native and a former priest of the Temple. She is currently unable to perform her duties as normal because of an ongoing Ordinator investigation about her alleged connections to the Dissident Priests."
As far as I can see, other than the flat text for background "I am Nerasa Veran, Minister of Temple Affairs", no dialogue has been implemented for or about her. I'd flesh out the set-up a bit; Nerasa Veran was Casik's wife and fairly Imperialized, but after his imprisonment she drifted back to the Temple and her native culture, readopting her birth name and starting correspondences with several Temple theologians, at least some of which ended up becoming associated with the dissident priest movement. She is kept around in the castle as she is a resident who is in fact quite knowledgeable of Temple affairs, but due to the disgrace of being the wife of General Casik on one side and the disgrace of being associated with dissident priests on the other, she is somewhat of an outcast.
2. Alternative: TR_m3_Polsirie Dalomo, Hlaalu agent in Ebon Tower, Curia: Offices West. After Casik's disgrace, she readopted her family name as a purely pragmatic move and devoted herself to serving her birth house. She also only has the one unique line of dialogue for the topic background: "I'm Polsirie Dalomo, Oathman of House Hlaalu. I am here to make sure that the Empire and House Hlaalu see eye to eye on all important matters."

Melsen:
1. Preferred: TR_m3_Rumus Stannicus, Nerasa Veran's bodyguard. This would be a rather different take on his character: out of loyalty to Casik and a sense of duty, Rumus Stannicus ends up leaving the Legion and decides to be an ally and protector of Nerasa Casik, whose husband's disgrace -- through no fault of her own -- put her in a precarious position. Casik may not be aware of this, and directs the player to ask at the Legion barracks, assuming he's still in the Legion. Rumus Stannicus does not appear to have any dialogue implemented so far. Only potentially awkward thing about this is that he's in the same room as Nerasa, but I don't think that's a big deal.
2. Alternative: I think any of the following NPCs could be used: TR_m3_Corvia Sansalas, Master-in-Arms in "Ebon Tower, Legion: Smithy", no dialogue; TR_m3_Solius Zenitarion, Imperial, the Lord General's left hand; TR_m3_Caecalia Victrix, Imperial, Lord General of the Imperial Legion, head of the Legion in Morrowind. The latter two are both in "Ebon Tower, Legion: Headquarters" and have a bit of dialogue, but are not very fleshed out.

"Look, I like you, %PCRace, but . . . Okay. The rumors were true of the general. He had a mistress, an Argonian, if you can believe it. A bit like that bawdy play, eh? I never knew her name, and I believe she left the city not long after General Casik was arrested. I heard she returned to Black Marsh, but I am not certain."
This reference is fairly subtle, so might pass, but it does refer to the Lusty Argonian Maid, and most players will probably figure as much; that play has not necessarily been made public when the quest occurs. To make this a really worthwhile reference, I'd only have this line be delivered if the Lusty Argonian Maid quest has been completed, otherwise he doesn't draw the comparison.

[How much can I use text to describe what's going on here?]
I'd try to use as little as possible, but this is the sort of thing that can only be said on a case-by-case basis.

Casik being found innocent: I do think there should be some sort of evidence aside from the player's word; perhaps some token indicating Daedric presence in Casik's home (though this leads to the question of what building could have been Casik's home 30 years ago), or someone who saw 'Casik' appear from/disappear into thin air or something.

[If General Casik remains in prison - no response]
[...]
I don't like this bit, as while it does provide some closure, it is at the cost of ruling out General Casik is actually the Daedric doppelganger, or that there was no doppleganger and Casik really did give in to temptation, probably very much regretting the decision afterwards.
In fact, my preferred take is that the imprisoned Casik is the doppleganger, who made the original 'disappear', but after 30 years of being stuck in prison due to his own machinations, abandoned by Mehrunes Dagon, his pleas to be let out falling on deaf ears, he effectively 'became the mask' and convinced himself he is the real Casik. That also puts an interesting spin on the love affair; would be amusing if it were the doppleganger and not the original who fell in love with the Argonian, and the original really was just a workaholic.
Either way, I think it would be good if, should Casik be executed, there should be more or less wild rumours afterwards that his body reverted to a Daedric form after the head was lobbed off.

The deed: As we are coordinating with the other Province Mods, I think the deed should be to an actual place that will exist. I asked over there if there would be a good location.

For the deed, the headwaters

For the deed, the headwaters of the Morath River were suggested in the Province: Cyrodiil Discord channel. Basically land east of Cheydinhal that used to belong to the Tharns, which works perfectly. People mostly stay clear of the land now due to its bad reputation, so it makes sense for the ownership to be unclear (deed lying around for 30 years).

Thanks for these two comments

Thanks for these two comments. I’ll amend the land deed (I hadn’t even thought to link it to Province: Cyrodiil).

I agree that using existing NPCs would be better. I’ve made a start on the quest, mostly just journal entries so far, but I created two new NPCs, the letter, and the land deed, so I’ll remove the NPCs, change the land deed, and revise the quest document.

It might be awkward to have

It might be awkward to have the PC speak freely with both Casik’s wife and former aide if they’re in the same room. However, using Caecalia Victrix as Casik’s former aide would be tremendous. It might make it harder to get information out of her, but it makes sense to me that the general’s aide is now Lord General.

I was inspired by a quest in KOTOR where the PC has to prove a person’s innocence or guilt, and I’d like to give the player the ability to sway the final outcome. I’d also like the opportunity for the player to fail.

Would it be unfair to taunt the player with failure rather than not having a response? Something about mocking the player for letting Casik continue to rot in prison.

The idea that Casik is the doppelganger is intriguing. I was thinking to do a reversal of Jagar Tharn’s replacement of Uriel Septim, but if you think it’s more compelling, I can alter the quest.

failure is perfectly fine if

failure is perfectly fine if the player isn't going to want to immediately reload. every ending should feel semi legitimate and at least partially rewarding. If you spend all this time and get a "haha you lose" message people will be pissed off. I don't think "unable to find evidence" should be a quest fail state. Either they rule in favor or they don't. The quest will just languish in the players journal until they figure something out. If you want to include a 'get this quest out of my journal' failstate, allow the player to vigilante kill casik and have people semi-angry that you did it.

I am extremely excited to see this in esp form haha this looks like a beast of a quest

I’m only following the quest

I’m only following the quest write-up guide DEG posted in his modding tutorials. I can give it a shot, but I’ll need someone to check my work.

I eagerly volunteer to check

I eagerly volunteer to check your work. If you're in the discord you can ask technical questions there

I also made this tutorial video some time ago, there isn't a part 2 yet but this is a very FAST and SIMPLE tutorial on how to get started
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yNZR9LH65_Qx6DPhPU7Tmcv76YPKw7bT/view

I'm thinking about linking

I'm thinking about linking this quest to the OE Imperial Legion chain. As it will still be available as a misc quest, nothing should really change in your plans. I'll just have to write 3 lines for the legion questgiver to direct the player to your starting point. If you have anything against my idea, feel free to say so.

How odd, I've been thinking

How odd, I've been thinking the same about the Imperial Cult. A redeemed general would be the best person to use in the Mystery Play.

Maybe it can be one of these quests that's startable by multiple quest givers?

Yes, of course. Use this

Yes, of course. Use this however you’d like.

Here's the new draft of the

Here's the new draft of the quest document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wyWThtTEa7etracZ_pjsSWrqs1UemS4Hwn4KNoXwOpU/edit?usp=sharing

Changes: I've changed Casik's wife to Nerasa Veran and his former aide to Caecalia Victrix. The officer that corroborated the aide's statement is now Rumus Stannicus, who is Nerasa's bodyguard.

I've added evidence that Casik was apparently in two places at once: Nerasa says he was with her the night before his arrest, and Caecalia says that Casik was with his Argonian mistress all that night.

Questions:

Thoughts on appropriate quest rewards? I thought a +1 to Reputation to the person who cleared or condemned Casik would be okay, but perhaps that's too big of a reward.

I've adopted Gnomey's idea that Casik was actually replaced by the Daedra. If the player kills Casik, can his body be scripted to change to a Dremora's?

Is TR_m3_EbonTower1PrisonKey the right key to get the PC in to see Casik?

OK, I think I'm finished.

OK, I *think* I'm finished. I need someone to go through this quest and make sure everything's working right.

There are three ways to complete the quest: find Casik guilty, find him innocent, or kill him.

There's also a script on Casik. Please check to make sure it's okay.

I've added dialogue to several NPCs.

Cleaned Belated Justice

-file requires TR_mainland

-file requires TR_mainland.esm, use the TR_mainland.esp under the section files, it's more up to date (you can remove the master dependency with wrye mash)
-two unclean dialogue line - both Old Ebonheart placeholders
-script could be fixed in some areas, unnecessary disable and player pointers, also its easier to just copy the generic dialogue script into your existing script

Begin TR_m3_Casik_scr

   ; This script is for General Casik's normal behavior.
   ; If he's alive, he'll use a generic Tamriel Rebuilt script.
   ; If he's dead, his body will revert to a Dremora, and the player will get a journal entry.

Short TR_m3_NPC_OE_poorNoLore
short TR_Map
short control
short controlQ
short TR_m3_OE_poor
short NoLore

If ( OnDeath == 1 )
       PlaceAtMe TR_m3_OE_dead_dremora 1 1 1
       Disable
       player->Journal TR_m3_OE_BelatedJustice 210
       ModPCFacRep, -10, "Imperial Legion"
EndIf

if ( TR_Map == 3 )
   if ( TR_m3_OE_poor == 1 )
       return
   endif
endif

set TR_Map to 3
set TR_m3_OE_poor to 1

End TR_m3_Casik_scr

^that's what I'd do

i haven't tested this yet but i'm uploading what you had with the changes I made - great work!

OK, I'm done with this quest.

OK, I'm done with this quest. I moved some dialogue from Greetings to Topics (Casik), and I tested the changes. I also made the reward a little better given the legwork the player needs to do and the significance of dealing with a former general (Amulet with +10 Personality and +10 Speechcraft rather than +5/+5 - feel free to change it as you wish).

Version 5: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zizqeabmhb1fjwl/Clean%20Cleaned_Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

Took a quick look at the file

Took a quick look at the file in the CS and playtested the quest a little as well. Even though there are still some rather severe dialogue bugs (player seemingly knowing things they haven't found out yet; some Topics not being available even when they should), I must say that I really love how this quest has turned out. The dialogue and the writing in general is excellent and the detective work is really fun--once fully polished, this will definitely be a highlight of any Old Ebonheart playthrough.

I would, however, make the ending more dramatic and "cinematic" by having the final verdict being given in the Hall of Justice, in the first floor of the Curia, with Casik (and maybe the other witnesses?) present. Should the verdict be guilty, the execution and Casik's subsequent transformation could be a flashy scripted event. If you don't wish to do it, I would be more than willing to take a stab at it.

Version 6: https://www

Version 6: https://www.dropbox.com/s/zizqeabmhb1fjwl/Clean%20Cleaned_Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

I love the idea of having the final announcement in the main hall of the Curia. That makes the most sense to me. Rats, if you'd be willing to try, you have my full blessing.

4.14.2018 Version 7: https:/

4.14.2018 Version 7: https://www.dropbox.com/s/43kg79pta1sz56i/Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

Fixed some bugs in dialogue, and fixed a missing mesh. I also cleaned it with TESAME and removed two very old cell edits.

Version 8 after rotouns'

Version 8 after rotouns' comments: https://www.dropbox.com/s/43kg79pta1sz56i/Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

Oh, man! I'm a developer now?

Oh, man! I'm a developer now? Craziness! Thank you, everyone!

Latest version (1.9): https://www.dropbox.com/s/43kg79pta1sz56i/Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

Version 9 Changelog:
- Changed two "Nerasa Veran" topics so that one is for "Ebon Tower, Curia" cell and another is for "Ebon Tower, Palace" cell
- Did the same for one "Rumus Stannicus" topics
- Edited topics to indicate that Nerasa and Rumus are in the eastern wing of the Curia
- Changes Caecalia Victrix's first response to the "woman on the side" topic to "I don't trust you enough to speak further on that subject."
- Lowered the disposition requirement to 50 to get more information on the Argonian mistress
- Lowered Casik's disposition requirement to 50 to get more information about Deesh-Ja
- Lowered Speechcraft requirement to 40 to get Deesh-Ja's letter
- Lowered Nerasa Veran's disposition requirement to 40 to get her to talk about the Nibenay land deed
- Lowered Speechcraft requirement to 40 to get the land deed

Latest version (1.10): https:

Latest version (1.10): https://www.dropbox.com/s/43kg79pta1sz56i/Belated%20Justice.ESP?dl=0

Version 1.10 Changelog:
- Added a Journal Entry for Casik giving the player the letter from his Argonian mistress
- Added a new response for Nerasa Veran so she doesn't keep giving the player land deeds
- Added a new response for Casik so he doesn't keep giving the player the letter from his mistress

Bugs I've found: - Two spaces

Bugs I've found:
- Two spaces after periods in these topics: First journal entry after agreeing to help Belisatha Mede, one of the topics of Casik where he says: It was a Daedra, I'm sure of it, One of the choises that player is given in Casik's dialogue: I see. That must have been painful for you, one of the choises that player is given in Caecalia's dialogue: [Speechcraft] Surely there was more evidence. What else do you know?, one of the choises that player is given in Caecalia's dialogue: I see. If I have further questions, I will return, Caecalia's answer to this answer: I see. If I have further questions, I will return, Caecalia's man of honor topic, journal entry which starts with this sentence: I've agreed to help General Casik to prove his innocence, journal entry which starts like this: General Casik had an Argonian mistress..., guards' topic on Nerasa Veran in Curia offices, Nerasa Veran's topic on Caecalia Victrix, one of the choises that player is given in Belisatha Mede's dialogue which starts like this: [Speechcraft] A Daedra impersonated the General, General Casik's little secret topic, all the choises player is given on woman on the side topic of Casik, Deesh-Ja's whole letter.
- Typo on the topic where you ask Casik if he has any memento of Deesh-Ja: wrote meI believe
- When select Gaulus the Jailor's little secret topic before I hand him Belisatha Mede's letter, he tells me Casik's location.
- When I select Casik's little secret topic while I have low Speechcraft to ask about the woman on the side, he tells me that I know about Deesh-Ja now. https://i.imgur.com/Bxe2S7A.png

That's weird that Gaulus has

That's weird that Gaulus has a little secret topic. I don't see it in the CS for him. I wonder if there's some kind of bleedover from another topic. I don't even get Little Secret when I talk to him. I changed the topic on Casik just in case.

Thank you for your bug report! I've fixed the ones you've found. I've also added some dialogue to Bravilo Julianian so that the player can discuss matters with him.

I've also added the option to Belisatha Mede's dialogue to abandon the quest once and restart it.

Hello MacBone, Loved the plot

Hello MacBone,

Loved the plot and the interplay/motivation of the characters all seemed very natural. As well, the implementation gave me a good tour of the Old Ebonheart castle area.

I've included some things encountered in testing, and compiled a few suggestions. I was not able to prove him innocent during these runs, but eventually succeeded in proving him guilty after carefully avoiding some issues I detail in the imgur link. I will try the innocent path when I get time next.

https://imgur.com/a/it4kjRR

So far I've played through 1 branch only, but I've highly enjoyed the quest. Finally an advocacy quest that feels like actual advocacy with evidence pointing both ways.
Here's something I'd call a (minor) bug, though: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o0afr1d77b8rtt3/bug-BelJ-1.png?dl=0

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