Indoril-Thirr Section

Version: 

Active: 

Currently in development

Checked out: 

No

Description

The section file containing the east bank of the Thirr. Mainly focused around the Indoril.

Workflow

This is the file where dialogue, quests, and claims for the eastern Thirr should be merged. Do not edit this file without also loading TR_Mainland.esp, and do not merge other esps into it without also loading TR_Mainland.esm! (see editing guidelines)

Discussion of Almas Thirr dialogue

Development Plan

This file needs to continue being worked on as it did before: remaining issues need to be fixed, more dialogue and quests needs to be added, the Aanthirin visual overhaul needs to be finished.

Link to previous release

Merged Claims: 

Comments

I'm grabbing this. About time

Gnomey's picture

I'm grabbing this. About time I got more work done. The order of the day will be fixing placement errors, probably for a while.cheeky

Edit: dropping this. I've made good progress, but there are still quite a few orange moss, temple dome and hamum root instances left to fix. Hopefully I'll have time to attend to those tomorrow.

Grabbing this, still focusing

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing this, still focusing on fixes. If I get through with the flora, I'll probably tidy up the rocks and perhaps do some more detailing in Vhul and Felms Ithul.

Edit: Dropping. Wow, there were way more temple domes than I was prepared for. Almost all flora placements fixed; I'll still check the shroomtables, but they generaly replaced the ferns very cleanly, so that shouldn't take too long.

On the one hand, it's rather

Gnomey's picture

On the one hand, it's rather late over here and I should probably go to sleep. On the other, it bugs me that I didn't get any work done on this file today. I think I'll grab this file and see how much of the stuff from the last meeting I can implement within about an hour. I'll probably start with the farm, and then if I make good time maybe the road and/or infirmary.

Edit: dropping for the night. I kept a tidy changelog:

-adjusted Thal Ullev's inventory, level, appearance and idle chances to fit his new identity as a grizzled old retired retainer of Ilvi's
-renamed 'Felms Ithul, _'s House (TR_i3-784-Ind)' to 'Felms Ithul, Thal Ullev's House'
-applied ownership and locked the exterior door
-renamed 'Drothril Estate, Thal Ullev's Shack' to 'Duvana's Shack'; owneship is still to Thal Ullev for now
-added exterior to [10, -19] and linked up with the interior

And also thought to take a quick screenshot in the CS of the new farm exterior:

As I ended up detailing the farm exterior, I didn't get around to the other stuff, but there are now officially no more Droth(r)il Estate interiors at least.

Grabbing this file a bit

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing this file a bit earlier today. I will continue to implement the stuff discussed in the last meeting.

Edit: dropping for the night. Changelog:
-rotated the northmarker for 'Duvana's Shack'
-added exterior velk camp at [11, -18]. Three NPCs are planned: a low-level Indoril guard and two Velothi labourers. The guard has a tent to himself, but I'm not sure if tents are worth making into claims, so I might just handle the interior myself.
-added cave entrance for Curse like a Witch quest in [11, -18] at the coordinates 93718, -145743, 2122; the entrance has a z-rotation of 2.8
-changed St. Seryn Infirmary exterior and adjusted some of the surrounding cliffs and landscape to fit
-added road to St. Seryn Infirmary, with pathgrids where they seemed necessary. I haven't done any in-game testing so far.

All of the exterior edits to Indoril-Thirr discussed in the last meeting have been made, though I might still tweak them a little here and there, especially after in-game testing. The area directly west of the infirmary is already in the OE file, so the possibility of adding something there is irrelevant to this section.

CS screenshots:

please feel free to make an

Mortimer's picture

please feel free to make an int for the witches cave if you want :)

I wasn't lying when I said a single cave piece and a door would be sufficient, basically the size of a yurt except a cave. if you want to leave the claim up as an easy goal for new int modders then that works too

I've got plenty of other

Gnomey's picture

I've got plenty of other stuff to do on Indoril-Thirr, so I'll leave the claim be for now and hope somebody bites. If nobody does, though, I will indeed probably just grab it myself.

Speaking of which, I'm grabbing this file. Top on today's hit-list is making the rest of the St. Seryn changes, and then I'll see where I go from there.

While I didn't manage to get any work done on this file yesterday, I did test it in-game, which went surprisingly well. I only found two minor caspers along the new road. I also took some screenshots, though with distant land disabled. The album can be viewed here.

Edit: well, that was a rabbit hole. Dropping for today. The infirmary has its new layout, but I decided to expand it a little -- with an additional room with beds and such -- and ended up doing some experimentation.There's still some detailing and tidying to be done, but I'm quite happy with it now; it matches the general layout of vanilla Velothi towers, but has features which make it stand out, in my opinion, in a more interesting way than the old double dome.

Grabbing. I'll try to at

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing. I'll try to at least finish St. Seryn's Infirmary before the meeting.

Edit: Dropping. Changelog:
-finished detailing new rooms and correcting placement errors from the layout change
-added ownership
-updated pathgrid
-replaced references to 'St. Seryn's Infirmary' in dialogue to refer to 'Serynthul'
-changed cell name from 'St. Seryn's Infirmary' to 'Serynthul, Infirmary'
-fixed three caspers along the new road

I added two new rooms to Serynthul; the entrance room, which has storage and a sitting area for visitors, and a room with beds for patients in a very bad way, which has an old ancestor burial. (To Dunmer, closeness to ones ancestors is seen as comforting, and the ancestors are called on to protect the lives of their descendants).

An overview of what I still plan to do with the file:
-perhaps add NPCs to the velk camp and add the camp interior
-sort out NPCs and dialogue in Felms Ithul
-sort out Roa Dyr
-do further detailing work in Vhul, Felms Ithul and along Veloth's path
-look over Almas Thirr to make sure everything is in order (when I shortly playtested, it seemed like some doors weren't linked, and there are concerns about the interior fitting the exterior, and Ragox linked some errors in the last release's Indoril-Thirr page (some of which I've already fixed), and so on)
-break up some of the cobbled-together rock cliffs, also tidy up the AI (yay!) to WG (boo) transition to the east

Grabbing this file ahead of

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing this file ahead of the scheduled maintenance tomorrow. While there's still a chance I'll decide otherwise last minute, I intend to put progress on the rest of this file on hold for a bit to tackle Roa Dyr.

Just to reiterate from the last meeting, I intend to make one last attempt at carrying out a more drastic change to the current Roa Dyr, as I'm not satisfied with large parts of its current implementation (which I never finished anyway). Once I'm satisfied with the result, I'll leave it for people to decide if they like the new version or prefer the old one, in which latter case I'll roll-back to the 2017-10-22 file and finish Roa Dyr in that incarnation.
So that no work is unintentionally lost by the potential roll-back, I'd specifically prefer if other people did not work on the file in the meanwhile, so contrary to my usual approach I'll be sitting on the file until the necessary changes are done.
To make sure I don't end up sitting on the file doing nothing, I intend to provide daily updates on my progress. Excepting today, that is, as I won't be doing anything in the 3 minutes left to the day going by local time.

In general, my goal is to finish the exterior and maybe some of the interior (via incorporating existing interiors mostly), and create a plan for any additional interiors required so that they can be turned into claims as soon as possible. (I'll probably also be creating suggested interior shells for some of the claims, as I suspect many will have complex interlocking layouts such as might be found in cantons). From there, the hope is to get Roa Dyr NPC'd -- with quests being a bonus, though I'm not sure if a location like Roa Dyr even needs much aside from the faction quests it will be involved in -- in time for the March release.

Edit: also, I'll probably start a new comment thread for the Indoril-Thirr changes, as I assume the problem still exists for mobile users that comments far down a comment chain are squished to vertical messes...

minor notes

Mortimer's picture

10/24/2017 (01:08)    TR_IndorilThirr_v.0167.ESP    10/22/2017 (13:02)   Terrain_rocks_AI_04    Aanthirin Region (12,-24)    101999    -188806    1036    "massive terrain hole"

also vhul doesn't have final names for a lot of  ints and is still missing a huge number of NPCs. I'm not sure if that falls into "vhul detailing" but its something to consider. it's also an easy enough job that I could do it, but it might be better to leave that to you :)

I've made no real progress

Gnomey's picture

I've made no real progress today, as I was taking care of some other stuff I'd been putting off.
My basic approach to overhauling Roa Dyr is to construct the new version above the old one, then pull up the stuff from the old version I want to keep, remove the rest, and sink the whole thing down to ground level. The early stage just involves me tossing stuff together and seeing what works:

Well, it's almost been a

Gnomey's picture

Well, it's almost been a month to the day since my last daily update, so that went well. I do at least now have a much clearer concept of Indoril Chapels and Roa Dyr in particular. The file itself is in a messy state; old Roa Dyr is floating above new Roa Dyr, so that I can easily pull down the stuff I want to keep (such as Ilvi's residence). Bits and pieces of new Roa Dyr are starting to form together and take shape. No screenshots for now; there are a few CS screengrabs on Discord, but I'll want to take proper in-game screenshots this weekend as the CS lighting is rather bad.

New file up top, screenshots

Gnomey's picture

New file up top, screenshots should come tomorrow. In the last file, I had a rough version of Roa Dyr's 'threshold', its council island, and its temple. In this file, I've moved the temple into its final position, raised half of the main island (I still need to prepare the area where Ilvi's residence will be dropped to properly receive it), and have started working on the cargo port, among other smaller changes.
I'll try to focus on getting the structures in places first and then tidying up and padding things out with detailing afterwards, so that interiors can be set up as soon as possible. However, Roa Dyr is a monolithic structure, so its interiors can't really be handled in isolation; it's always possible I'll make a change to a building's exterior later to improve the overall appearance and layout of Roa Dyr, which is why I'm hesitant to start putting up interiors now, at least beyond the design stage.

I doubt I'll get much done on

Gnomey's picture

I doubt I'll get much done on Roa Dyr today, but I have at least tested it in-game and have taken some screenshots. Surprisingly, I had no difficulty navigating the paths I have placed so far, though the pathgrid will naturally need to be completely reworked.
I should mention by way of warning that old Roa Dyr is visible in most of the shots, and a lot of the new work is still in a very rough state (and as I mentioned in the last post may stay that way for a while). Click on the image to see the rest of the album:

  Just to post it someplace

Jani's picture

Just to post it someplace relevant:
I've gone though the current version of the section file, and found some missing interiors which aren't featured in any claims in the browser.

This one is an ancestral tomb. A finished interior claim can be found on the old forums here.
Here's another one. A finished interior claim can be found on the old forums here.

There's a tent inlands without a DoorMarker.

And here's a cave dwelling (?) near Roa Dyr. Not sure if it will be scrapped when we finish the exterior works there, though.

There's a placement error here. The door can't be easily accessed, as it is blocked by terrain.

Please note that I didn't poke around Almas Thirr much. It has many problems, and should be talked about in detail during this Sunday's meeting.

What I did was going through each exterior cell, finding the doors and checking if there's a DoorMarker nearby. Someone with more experience with the CS could tell if it was thorough enough, or there's more to be done.

Found all these objects are

Rot's picture

Found all these objects are never placed in cells: (nor used in scripts)

 

 
Found 50 NPCs are never placed in cells:

 

 
nor used in scripts, but of these NPCs, the following 8 have dialogue attributed to them:

 

 
Also in this section:

 

 

Bad IDs found in this section

Rot's picture

Bad IDs found in this section (including an aptly named "tr_crapola"?? :P)
 

 

 
 

It's been a while. New file

Gnomey's picture

It's been a while. New file up top; a lot of progress made, but a lot still to be done. I've moved most of earlier Roa Dyr to an interior cell (made I assume by Parker or Aeven) called 'Roa Dyr Safekeeping', which originally contained the buildings of the even earlier Roa Dyr-as-town, which I've now removed. The old harbour is still in the exterior for the time being, but other than that the skies over Roa Dyr should be clear.
Most of the rough structure of Roa Dyr is finished, though the harbour is still mostly missing and there are a few other gaps remaining. (A long bridge needs to be propped up in some way between the 'sanctum' and 'nexus building', a structure jutting out of the residence is missing a floor and support pillars, etc.)
As with last time, click on the image to access the album.

I've started working on interior shells, with the shell of the residence complete. Here's a quick overview of the standing tally of interiors (groupings indicated in bold text, individual interiors italicized):

 

New file up top. Dropping

Gnomey's picture

New file up top. Dropping this for now, so that North Andothren can be cut out of it. The base structure of Roa Dyr is complete, though there are still a few holes: I still haven't added windows and doors to the harbour buildings, and have only half implemented the new pathgrid. The two courtyards on the main island, including the long bridge between the nexus structure and the sanctum, have hardly been touched, and more work is needed on the entryway and canals. Detailing is needed all around.

In the short term I still intend to at least add the missing doors and windows, so that the remaining interior shells can be created, finish the pathgrid, and sort out the long bridge and entryway. That being said, as Roa Dyr will not be included in North Aanthirin, and as such will not be merged into TR_Mainland by next release, I intend to focus more on the remaining North Aanthirin exterior work (though thankfully there isn't much to do there).

I'll add a more detailed update on the changes I have made -- with in-game screenshots -- later, probably tomorrow.

Uploaded 2017-12-04-CUT  with

Rot's picture

Uploaded 2017-12-04-CUT  with Northern Aanthirin removed, and without dialogue. Needs testing but looks good.

Dialogue was broken before the cut so it's still broken, and will need to be fixed by pasting dialogue from before it broke.
no: only the topic "backgrounds" seems broken. Still have to paste back dialogue though
Cleaning that won't be hard; the entries that need to be removed will be exactly all those without an Actor or Cell condition, with two exceptions in the "Almas Thirr" topic (that don't have these conditions but must be kept).
2017-12-07 - dialogue only uploaded

Grabbing the file to do more

Gnomey's picture

Grabbing the file to do more work on Roa Dyr -- especially preparing the interior shells, completing the new pathgrids and tidying up the base structure.

Edit: Dropping file again. I've updated the pathgrid to the current level of implementation (there are some blank spots here and there where I still intend to add more stuff), but mostly got side-tracked fiddling about with two or three particular problem spots that are difficult to traverse in-game. I've also added a new interior shell to the Roa Dyr Safekeeping cell; the watchtower. I've decided that, rather than turning it into a claim, I would cannibalize old Roa Dyr ints for this one, especially my own harbor offices claim.

Aside from the claims I have already put up, the nexus structure, sanctum and possibly glass hall will probably get turned into claims, (though the glass hall is rather suprfluous without the Punavit drinking set). I'm still not sure with the residence interiors, but probably I'll put one or two of them up for claiming and tackle the rest myself via salvaging old stuff. The harbour buildings and remaining interiors will likewise be salvage jobs.

Added file containing

Rot's picture

Added file containing only dialogue, with fixed background topic. Merge at your convenience, making sure to load last (active file)
edit: removed esm dependency

roads need improvement

fufulames's picture

This is a critique of the inconstencies of raods in the region.  Many are too windy or uneven and their width and material inconsistent with the demand of the area.  Roa Dyr for example has a road that amount to an unimproved pathway so narrow at one point the player could almost missit entirely while other areas have more major roads and improvements although their demads would be much less. 

Two other examples are two roads that go south near Roa dyr and bridge that leads only to small shrine.
https://imgur.com/fSex3it
https://imgur.com/F3XkkDt
The two roads converge near mountains and end there when they could much more easily cut through the area north of mountain more easily or connect to the shrine and road on the other side.  CHANGE: what id suggest is connecting the two major roads more to the north where they dont have to cross mountains.  Next change existing paved road to unimproved road going to the handful of buildings and cutting through mountain to shrine.
https://imgur.com/zLljWL7
The shrine and bridge:  the bridge is too major an improvement for the amount of traffic it would recieve.  Comparing to Roa Dyr, which has a minor unimproved path, to this shrine, which has an impressive bridge, makes the inconsistency more glaring.  I suggest removing bridge and changing to a steep path that cuts through one side of mountain to other, or maybe chngeing to rope bridge if necessary. 
https://imgur.com/iOdOwUg
https://imgur.com/rjCkImU

Roa Dyr:  should have improved road wide and level enough to allow carts and larger traffic from 2 directions and one wider bridge on either side of the Chapel to improve access. Slave area should also be a bit more open so their field can get full sun.  The path either be removed or remain as a minor walkway through the gardens.

changes to Roa Dyr paths:
https://imgur.com/RWbnven

One last comparison:
low traffic road to nowhere (#2)
https://imgur.com/zLljWL7
road to Road Dyr
https://imgur.com/6kSmV9e
 

Main roads really should have

Nemon's picture

Main roads really should have some sort of framing, physical borders marking the boundaries. It would require a ton of work on old stuff but the sooner we start doing things right the less stuff has to be redone.