Speaker for the Dead Questline

Priority: 

Stage: 

  • Merged

Development Progress: 

100

Merged into: 

Claim Type: 

Faction: 

Description

 HIGH LEVEL quests to be given out at the ALMAS THIRR TEMPLE. 

Quest #1: May She Rest in Peace
Player aids outcast in getting his daughter’s remains properly interred. Player has chance to learn more of the history of Dondril in the process.

Quest #2: A Flooded Tomb 
Player is introduced to the concept of the Speaker for the Dead role by an Ordinator in Mourning stationed in Almas Thirr. Player is asked to rescue ashes from an ancestral tomb and brings them to Necrom to prove their dedication.

Quest #3: Speaker for the Dead
Player performs a ritual in Necrom and becomes a Speaker.

Quest #4: Disembodied
A Dunmer spirit in Roa Dyr has separated from its body without its body dying first. It doesn't want to go back to being an Indoril pauper, and much enjoys being free. Figure out what's going on, and coax the spirit back into the body to restore the natural order of things. 

Quest #5: The Face Stealer
Plsyer is sent to kill a powerful Daedra known as the Face Stealer.

Quest #6: I'll See You In Oblivion
Khaaaaaan! I mean, Khalaaaaaaan!

--Removed from file as of revision 6--
Quest #X: Ashes to Ashes
Player must prove their honor and compassion to obtain role of Speaker. Player aids dying Dunmer in finishing his last rites and brings his remains to Necrom.

--not in this file or planned--
Quest  #Z: Forgotten 
Player now has Speaker duties. Player is asked to soothe an ancestor ghost in Necrom by bringing a letter from the ghost to a descendant living in Roth Roryn.

see child claims (linked) for details.

Relationships

Comments

what should the cutoff for

Mortimer's picture

what should the cutoff for rank be? how much rank should these quests give? everything else seems pretty good to go other than the face stealer not having a dungeon / cool face asset

i'm also considering putting in a neat quest where once you get the indoril ceremonial dagger from ashes to ashes the quest giver sends you down to perform a ritual at the almas thirr bloodstone shrine where you cut your hand and pour the blood onto the shrine to signify your wickedness is thrice slain and you are devoted to the temple (currently the bloodstone shrine doesn't do anything). 

I'm brainstorming what to do with the questgiver ordinator in mourning. He's going to be a very VERY serious person, but I can't tell if being sent to Almas-Thirr is a demotion or a promotion. I think it's probably a promotion but the questgiver is really pissed because he wants to be in Necrom forever. When these quests are finished he should relocate back to a Necrom office having been promoted once more. I'm not 100% on ordinator rankings (they're just temple guards in the CS) but I assume they have a rough hierarchy and some duties are considered to be more prestigious than others (guarding the bones of your ancestors vs sending someone to fetch ash)

Ranks--the rank requirements

Kevaar's picture

Ranks--the rank requirements are really pretty pitiful in vanilla, but I'd look at starting these quests at rank 5 (Curate) at the least, and progressing to rank 7 or 8 (Diviner/Master) at the most.

I don't know anything about the bloodstone shrine, so I couldn't comment beyond that it sounds like something that should be left to the low level Almas Thirr quest design, as Ashes-to-Ashes is already pretty well put together. (The low level Almas Thirr quests should deal with more local stuff, such as this shrine, the purpose of Almas Thirr to begin with, etc).

For an Ordinator in Mourning being posted in Almas Thirr--it is probably not as prestigious (being posted in Necrom takes the cake), but an Ordinator takes their duty seriously wherever they are. They may hope to get to Necrom eventually and grumble a bit about keeping the faith going for the locals, but also in there is the sense that they are the prime caretaker of the dead for that area, which is a honorable and compassionate job.

2017-5-14 ashes to ashes done

Mortimer's picture

2017-5-14
ashes to ashes done, speaker for the dead mini quest done, flooded tomb like 80% of the way there

leave comments here and ping me on discord :)

edit: you have to be a curate in the regular temple to get the quest from the almas thirr monastery

Reposting old comments from

Rot's picture

Reposting old comments from chat if needed:
 

 

 

I'd vote it replaces quest #4

Mortimer's picture

I'd vote it replaces quest #4 in this chain, unless someone has an idea for quest 4 it sounds super uninteresting

This is still on my radar but

Mortimer's picture

This is still on my radar but may require a dramatic reworking into a cohesive storyline rather than a list of 5 unrelated quests.
Next meeting should cover this, probably.

Who are the speakers and what do they do? Are they Ordinators in Mourning who handle dead related duties? Almost like an "Advocate for the dead". 

I think these quests, especially the Old Old Ebonheart and Face Stealer could be really interesting quests. Some of the other ones maybe not as interesting and could be used elsewhere or for lower level quests (letter carrying). 

If I had to restructure this, I would go:
1. May She Rest in Piece, which introduces the speaker role and doesn't have any real medium work, culminating in you being sent to Necrom to officially become a speaker in:
2. Speaker for the Dead, which has its whole ritual and semi-scripted moment where you pledge a rite and the spirits in the room appear and begin to trust you. You are sent back to Almas Thirr to continue your work along the Thirr.
3. Disembodied - A quest idea I had that can really play into the whole metaphysical aspect of spirits. A Dunmer spirit has separated from its body without its body dying first. It doesn't want to go back to being an Indoril pauper, and much enjoys being free. Figure out what's going on, and coax the spirit back into the body to restore the natural order of things. 
4. The Face Stealer (will think of a way to make this more dead/spirit adjacent)
5. I'll See You In Oblivion

update 8-9-19 Quest 1 is

Mortimer's picture

update 8-9-19
Quest 1 is about 50% done
Quest 2 is done
Quest 3 is done but I'd like to add more pomp and circumstance, perhaps with Why's help
Quest 4 hasn't been started
Quest 5 is about 60% done

I still don't know what to do about Ashes to Ashes. It's just not interesting lol

Hmm, I don't feel it needs to

Kevaar's picture

Hmm, I don't feel it needs to be, as it's showcasing what a Speaker of the Dead would do in their day-to-day lives. Not every quest needs to be epic or unusual; most vanilla quests were arguably pretty ho hum.

It doesn't quite match the

Mortimer's picture

It doesn't quite match the flow of the quests, if anything it would work better as a low level temple quest, or a Necrom addition.

I had a few ideas on how to make it slightly more interesting, some better than others:
-Visit bosmora to retrieve the ash but realize the person hasn't died yet. Speak with them and wait a few days and he will indoril ritual suicide (as in the vanilla quest)
or
-Retrieve the ash, but realize when you visit the persons house that he faked his own death. The temple records have him listed as deceased, which allows him to _____ (spy, live off the grid, ???)

note that neither is VERY interesting but just slightly more so. no more gameplay involved, I wish it were more than a simple walk to location

Hmm, with the other Speaker

Kevaar's picture

Hmm, with the other Speaker quests shaking up to be a lot of people faking their deaths or their ancestors, I would be careful adding yet another one here. For that reason I'm more interested in the vanilla quest. (And I think really was more in favor of it than the current iteration...? Which was calle dinto question because heebie jeebies over tasteful depiction of suicide.)

That said, your idea in the other asset of someone faking their death by giving you the ashes of a guar is hilarious and ought to be done somewhere....

Script TR_m3_q_garvsdeadscr

Why's picture

Script TR_m3_q_garvsdeadscr Line 14: if ( Disabled ) should be if ( GetDisabled )
TR_m3_Vaden_Baro needs a "Dondril" topic to showmap the location of the village in the first "sacred task" entry.
Dala Aralen mentions a "Provincial House" in cremation services which I think is a misspelling of Provisional House. In any case, as far as I'm concerned, Dunmer associating the Provisional House with death/the afterlife is bad fanfic that we shouldn't copy, so I'd rather this not be mentioned at all. If you insist on keeping it, at the very least the spelling needs to be fixed.
TR_m3_Nalis_Varo in Fedura "...a stronger argument.The right thing..." lacks a space
Upon successfully giving the ashes to the hetman, direct the player back to Garvs - I just sorta assumed I was done and went back to the Speaker guy, who wouldn't allow me to complete the quest yet. Something like "Tell Garvs Ovav that he is welcome in Dondril once again." should do the trick.
Second 'sacred task', Darnim should be Ildrim and should have a topic for showmapping (as should Tel Branora, though that one's a bit less necessary I suppose)
TR_m3_q_sarnatash x4 is sunk too deep into the surfaces - I assume this is because of the new urn model replacing the original ash heaps, or something.
tr_m3_q_ashesdreugh should be flagged corpse persists to avoid the edge case of the player killing then not looting this mob, and failing to find the fifth urn.
"Join our sacred order" topic persists for too long, and keeps prompting the yes/no choice. Should probably get a filler response during the first and second sacred task.
'Bradys Hlaalu' is actually called Bradys Hlaalo

two things i found: Journal

Rats's picture

two things i found:

Journal TR_m3_TT_floodedtomb: "Vaden Baro has tasked me to collect five sealed Sarnat matriarch ashes from the flooded Sarnat Ancestral Tomb and transport them to Bradys Hlaalo in Necrom. The tomb lies to the northwest of Ildrim." should say "just north of Ildrim". I spent half an hour diving in the sea for naught:D

during the May She Rest in Peace, after I've found the cremator priest in Almas Thirr, I think it's a bit odd that Garvs is still hanging around in Dondril (should have him teleport to his shack earlier).
 

Was able to playtest the

Dillonn241's picture

Was able to playtest the first three quests and most of Disembodied but ran into a questline breaking bug. I'll finish playtesting when that issue is fixed since I'm not sure how exactly the ritual in the Crossing of Lamps is supposed to be set up. Here's every issue I found:

 

cremation services
While many known...
    known -> know

This all that...
    This all -> This is all

Fedura
I am aware of Garvs
    Garvs -> Garvs'

Greeting
So, you've the newest recruit
    you've -> you're

Saying No to Uvo Brin immediately makes him forcegreet you again

sacred task
Were you not tasked with retrieving the sealed ashes from the Sarnat Ancestral Tomb?
    Bradys Hlaalo says this even after giving him the ashes, seems like his response should be different.

commune with the Daedra
Based on my cursory research...
    asking them if could -> ask them if they could

There is no female version of Note from Ilvi. I didn't actually test this with a female character, but I assume you get the same note.

QUESTLINE BREAKING: Lirielle and Seryl do not get moved to the Crossing of Lamps when you return the two items she needs.

Another issue: for the topic

Dillonn241's picture

Another issue: for the topic Arnesian War, this gives multiple people the same response starting with:
Our war with the Argonians, outlander? The entire thing started because the thrice-damned Argonians captured, tortured, and killed a trader by the name of Roris. The Tribunal found their reason to declare war against the Argonians, and about time, if you ask me!

You know they killed my family? They lived in Roth Roryn at the time, and were traveling to our estate after visiting Vivec for yearly services. My sisters and brother were slain in the night, my parents taken and tortured.

I was away from the estate at the time, fighting under Redoran's banner in the south. Maybe if I was there, I could have protected them. Or perhaps I would have died alongside them. Either would have been better then seeing their mangled corpses after they had been found.

Not sure who is supposed to get that line.

Quick note to self replace

Why's picture

Quick note to self
replace speaker move activator with global script called from relevant dialogue
Finish Khalaan topic for Vurvan Serothul

Finished the questline! A few

Dillonn241's picture

Finished the questline! A few major issues, but it's all playable now!

 

Kras-kira greeting:
Is that an odd occurance...
    occurance -> occurrence

Faceless Man greeting
Take this helmet...
    confuses -> confuse

The Indoril helmet doesn't seem to make me less vulnerable to the Face Stealer's attack.

Should there be a path that occurs if you kill the faceless Vaden Baro? Right now, the Face Stealer responds like he's alive no matter what. I'd say make Face Stealer turn hostile then add angry responses to Bradys Hlaalo/quest giver to indicate you failed the questline.

The Face Stealer journal entry
Vaden Baro, or something pretending...
    be provide -> provide

Make sure to add to merge notes naming TR_FS_1, TR_FS_2, and TR_FS_3 to Nalad and Nalad, [something].

Temple: Disembodied is not Speaker for the Dead: Disembodied?

Disembodied journal entry
A Winged Twilight named Kras-kira admitted...
    Space at beginning

Vaden Baro has generic dialogue when you return to him after just saving his life. Seems like a good place for a unique one-time greeting (and maybe a quick dialogue topic on what all that was about with the Face Stealer? Kind of ends without further info...)

[Only tried in OpenMW] The summoning scroll can only be used by placing it on the ground then picking it up. I assume the intended way was inventory only?

I'll See You in Oblivion! journal entry
The ancestral spitits...
    spitits -> spirits

sacred task
    Topic still gives the quest starter for Drothril Ancestral Tomb after returning to Vaden Baro too early in I'll See You in Oblivion!

talk to them
You actually want to do this...
    willl -> will

I'll See You in Oblivion! journal entry
Idoril Balver has explained...
    Idoril -> Indoril

The guards in Manor of the Lord have the Imperial Law topic which seems very inappropriate.

For Setisa Dorenil, the sequence talk to them->This is ridiculous.->No. does not mention getting a Daedra heart but the journal entry says to get one and the next response for "talk to them" is "Have you brought the heart?" Looks like the "No." reply needs a dialogue tweak.

talk to them
Ienni sent you to talk...
    Response repeats after all replies and a dialogue window close. Replying Yes. and not closing the window gives you the response "Do you have any questions?" I think this needs to permanently become the response for Yes, and permanent responses need to be added for the other two choices. The journal update for "That's not what I meant" is fine but it should do the same update for when you are told the Sanctum no longer exists.

pacify the spirit
Have you travelled to Drothril... If anyone else... Such extreme devotion...
    Can be repeated endlessly - for infinite White Robe of St. Meris!

Why edits in blue, strikeouts have been addressed in my wip file
Everything else has been addressed by mort

Response repeats after all

slepana's picture

Response repeats after all replies and a dialogue window close.

This is intentional. The ghost forgets what you were talking about when you leave her be, this is her whole quirk and how all her replies work, not just this quest. If this is to be changed, every line of hers needs to be rewritten, as they won't make any sense.

Also to add to the report, "Ienni sent you to talk..." needs the same conditions as all the other first responses TR_m3_SeeYou_Kha >= 25 && TR_m3_SeeYou_Kha < 40. There was a comment saying the lack of conditions is intentional, but I'm guessing I reconsidered down the line and never readded them.

Your flesh is an insult to the perfection of the digital.

Ah okay, but shouldn't the

Dillonn241's picture

Ah okay, but shouldn't the journal still update when you discover the Sanctum doesn't exist? I don't think it's needed to advance the quest but still makes sense to give in that case.

file 18 uploaded, everything

Mortimer's picture

file 18 uploaded, everything is done except for two things
-the barrier script has a bizarre bug where it requires TWO activations to disable (???)
-the facestealer dialogue sometimes sets a global correctly, sometimes doesn't

I plan on fixing both tomorrow and doing a final clean

notes in no particular order

Why's picture

notes in no particular order (sorry about the barebones nature of them, am pretty exhausted)

  • Seryl's body needs NoHello and NoIdle locals
    • Ideally we knock him on his ass, too, or just have him as a corpse with a messagebox stating that he's still faintly breathing, we can just Resurrect him once we're done with the summoning - maybe we can play the knocked-down breathing animation? idk.
  • Othreleth or whatever her name is needs a 'commune with the daedra' topic in her greeting after communing with the daedra, to make it more obvious that the player needs to talk to her about that.
  • Rename 'Dead Speaker' body to 'Dead Ordinator' or 'Dead Body'
  • Captured Speaker guy needs a 'help!' hello line from Assault voices, or something, though it's not urgent
  • Captured Speaker needs some dialogue tweaks - it's the missing Ordinator's helmet - not Foe stole my face but Foe stole Brelar's face, of his helmet
  • Script on the Messenger Winged Twilight needs AIWander with relevant settings after each PositionCell to fix the bug that causes the positioncell to randomly fail.
  • Khalaan version of Winged Twilight messenger dialogue needs a tiny tweak because her scamps are actually hostile - just let her complain about the player ruining the party, or something like that.
  • Bradys Hlaalo needs a greeting linking sacred task for the first quest, so that the player knows what to click when presenting Fedura's ashes.
  • Over the course of the questline you get two sets of Speaker Gauntlets - one from Bradys in Ritual of the Voice and one from Vedam Baro at the end of See You. I suggest shuffling the rewards around a bit - have Baro give the gloves after Face Stealer instead of the helm and cuirass, give the helm and cuirass after See You, have Bradys give nothing.

Notes from first (incomplete)

Arvisrend's picture

Notes from first (incomplete) playthrough:

Quest 1:

- Topic "cremation services", responses "This isn't about Garvs, is it?..." and "Then I am the perfect one for the task..." by TR_m3_Dala_Aralen repeat one another partly, despite being consecutive ingame.

- Topic "cremation services", response "I present you the ashes, %PCRank..." has a dangling participle ("As the aspirant Speaker, it is your duty to" --> "As the aspirant Speaker, you are the one to"). Also, how can you "perform" ashes?

- The ordinator instantaneously spawning in the shack (if Garvs have declined the cleansing ritual) looks bad to me. Also, how is the quest supposed to continue from there?

Quest 2:

- Journal tr_m3_tt_floodedtomb 10: "five sealed Sarnat matriarch ashes" -> "five sealed urns with Sarnat matriarch ashes"?

- No one in Necrom gives me any directions to Bradys Hlaalo (Necrom, Chamber of Parting).

- Shouldn't "Necrom" be called "city above Necrom"?

- Topic "sacred task", response "I see you have obtained the sealed Sarnat ashes...": typo "familys' ash".

- Topic "Rite of the Voice", response "I welcome you, %PCName...": typo "Almas-Thirr".

- Greeting 1, response "So, you've the newest recruit": typo "you've"; I'd also ditch the colloquial tone.

Quest 4:

- Topic "commune with the daedra", response: "Meet me at the top of the Crossing of the Lamps in Roa Dyr.". I'd replace "in Roa Dyr" by "here in Roa Dyr".

- I can't find Lirielle in the Crossing of Lamps; what's going wrong? (Stopped testing here.) Possibly script TR_m3_q_kraskira_scr returns too early (the "if ( GetJournalIndex, TR_m3_TT_Disembodied < 50 )" block may be the culprit).

General:

- Good job from what I've seen so far! However...

- Most of the dialogue in this claim has a Monty-Pythonesque playfulness that would make it really enjoyable if it wasn't the followup to a solemn and introspective Temple questline and also concerned with some of the most Serious Business in Morrowind. Is there a good way to pull the style back into the right direction? Toning down some of the japes, lampshading the sarcasm of some characters? Dala's tone can be explained by the fact that she's been working with the dead for ages and is by now hardboiled. Ilvi, however, is a character deeply concerned with his outward appearance of piety and fortitude; I would expect him to respond to the player in a more highbrow way (but the note can stay as it is -- he is talking to family there -- and the contrast would probably make it even funnier).

Posting here for easy access

Why's picture

Posting here for easy access and reference, Arvisrend's notes from Discord:

  • the [You're still here] greeting may be a bit inappropriate outside of the Statesmen's Hall - Othreleth needs a new greeting for in Crossing of Lamps when preparing ritual
  • also "My apologies I must return to Khalaan" needs a comma - it's not like she is returning apologies to khalaan - btw i'd mention that the hall of invocation needs levitation to access - if the lady knows where that scroll is, she should well know this fact - at a second thought, i really think tur julan shouldn't be the primary destination - if the scroll is so rare you have to go to a long forsaken ruin for it, they shouldn't be wasting it on a servant - i'd rather make it a "the arcanists that know how to make it are currently all in necrom, so if you're adventurous you may find it in tur julan first"

I'm planning to make some tweaks to the dialogue sending the player to Tur Julan to make it less direct (but still allow the player to easily figure out that the Hall of Invocation is where they should go) and to provide some context on why there's no simpler solution.

note to self, check the Sanctum dialogue thing Dillonn mentioned here. Fix $PCRank dialogue for Othreleth, that defaults to Indoril house instead of Temple because of her faction and as such is not appropriate.

to the 16th barrier script in

Mortimer's picture

to the 16th barrier script in Roa Dyr, Crossing of Lamps,

"Add a prompt to the 16th barrier if you don't have enough mysticism. Right now it does nothing but maybe add "You can find no faults in this barrier." or something, telling you that in the future....you might find something"
^go ahead and add that one, Why. 

Note to self, remove instant

Why's picture

Note to self, remove instant-attack option from ghost, instead hint at the fact that attacking him is still unlawful if he doesn't attack you first and have the player figure it out themselves.

I think I fixed most of the

Why's picture

I think I fixed most of the things / made most of the improvements needed to Disembodied, except Dillonn's comment on the Barrier above, I forgot that one. To-do.

Uploaded new file with a

Why's picture

Uploaded new file with a changed Face Stealer fight. Now rotates between faces and changes class. Made numerous tweaks to scripts for the Face Stealer quest too, now automatically unequip helmet once Face Stealer magic backfires on him so player can actually enjoy those changing faces, too.

Repaired reward sequence with Uvo Brin after Face Stealer quest, made alternate dialogue for in case player kills Vadem Baro.

I still want to add new Voice entries for the Face Stealer - probably just bestial screaming for during the fight.

Please test, by doing the following:

Journal TR_m3_TT_Speaker 30
Journal TR_m3_TT_Disembodied 70
coc "Almas Thirr, Monastery of St. Veloth"

talk to Gilse Areth

coc "TR_FS_1"

I also still need to tweak

Why's picture

I also still need to tweak the strength of the Face Stealer special absorb health spell - though it gets disabled if you put on the helmet before facing him. It's currently too strong for such a long fight.

Added face-appropriate voices

Why's picture

Added face-appropriate voices to Face Stealer and tweaked the scripts / his health in various stages. They are as follows:

  1. regular Dunmer fighter dude
  2. Hand-to-hand Khajiit
  3. High Elf witch, summons and damage spells
  4. Your Dunmer Speaker friend, nasty damage attribute spells and mace hits
  5. Imperial knight
  6. Dunmer vampire
  7. Useless faceless thing

Each transforms after losing 100 health, except the vamp who is 150 health and the final stage is 50. They've also got nice voice lines when they transform.

I still want to tweak the dialogue on the Face Stealer (make it more explicit that his magic is backfiring) and make him talk about that, if he can't steal your face, at least he still has many he can choose from to destroy you. 

I've also added a passive regen buff for the player during the fight and I'll probably add a degen curse on the Face Stealer to actually have his power drain from him to you - it'll make the Khajiit fight doable.